6

votes

Do high meat diets w/o organ meats mess with Zinc to copper ratio?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 12, 2012 at 7:18 AM

Okay, so I had a blood test recently that came back mildly hyperthyroid. Ive still been getting symptoms since reducing iodine intake.

I came across a website where some people found a n=1 type effect that hyperthyroid is associated with copper deficiency.

Whats remarkable about this is that its scientifically established that high zinc intake does lower copper levels (because they are used together in metabolism).

A high meat diet like I have been following is high in zinc, high in iron (which can lower copper availability), and was rather high in iodine (eggs, fish, cheese,dairy), all of which, roughly, promote increased thyroid function. Coconut oil and fat also seem to have these effects.

Its only copper that slows the thyroid back down it seems (speculative I guess, but somewhat reflected in alot of studies too). Its perhaps alot like the calcium magnesium balance in muscles and the heart.

Alot of people end up supplementing for magnesium on high meat diets. Magnesium also settles anxiety and heart palpitations in hyperthyroid.

There is some copper in chocolate and nuts (nuts being the more food-like source IMO). But nothing next to oysters, which is nothing next to....liver (mainly beef and veal livers). Oysters sadly are high in iodine and zinc. Real brewed coffee interesting as a decent wack of copper (though I cant drink). And I havent been eating liver.

So, the recommended ratio of zinc to copper is 5:1 in women, and 10:1 in men. On an average day a few weeks ago, I would have gotten about 18mgs of zinc from meats and other sources. That would require me to eat about a cup and a half of nuts a day, or a large portion of dark chocolate- every day, to keep my ratio sorted at 10:1. For women the problem would be worse.

So I am wondering about supplementation. And seeing if I cant make some beef or veal liver pate too.

But does a high meat diet mess up your ratio?

Does it super charge the thyroid?

Does weight loss from the "paleo diet" often come from this?

Does the rather common symptoms of high heart rate, anxiety and shakeyness come from this?

And does re-introducing carbs attempt to slow the process? (Carbs seem to effect the thyroid, and alot of people with hypothyroid seem to get benefits from low carb diets)

Is maybe all of this about zinc to copper ratio and thyroid function (yes I am currently biased but seems like an interesting line of thought)

Thoughts?

(going to eat some liver tonight even though I dont like it lol)

Just so you guys know I am not making this zinc to copper ratio stuff up, heres a weston a price article talking about it with relation to the opposite problem (too much copper in vegans because of not enough zinc containing meat):

http://www.westonaprice.org/metabolic-disorders/copper-zinc-imbalance

"To minimize these episodes of copper discharge, Gittleman recommends emphasizing >nutrients which have an antagonizing action to copper, that is, they reduce its >absorption or aid in binding it for excretion from the body. The most important of these, >of course, is zinc itself, as obtained from the land-based proteins mentioned above. ?>Manganese and iron act to displace copper from the liver; and vitamin C, very >importantly, chelates copper in the blood to facilitate its removal "

As you can see, they agree that lots of zinc reduces copper, as does iron, as does vitamin c, like the wacky dude in the link below that I found also does. Diet very high in zinc and iron (and perhaps also vit c) without much copper foods = low copper, hence the whole question! (See I am not mad, lol :P)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 08:24 AM

^ Yeah minerals do effect lipid levels. Too much zinc can drop your HDL, and too little copper can up your LDL. Of course the potential resulting thyroid mess could end up also lowering both of them :P

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 14, 2012
at 11:17 PM

^ That article is actually directly about paleo diets leading to zinc and copper imbalances without liver, nuts or other copper sources.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 14, 2012
at 11:16 PM

Zinc seems to be eliminated in the urine of hyperthyroid folks, and copper levels found are higher in the blood, but knowing what I know do about there respective functions, I beleive this is most likely compensatory. Certainly low zinc in hypothyroid makes perfect sense on its own either way.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 14, 2012
at 11:14 PM

I have read now a little more on what copper actually does for the thyroid. Its got three roles. It helps initiate release of the hormone, it is involved in the production of thyroid stimulating hormone AND this is where the crux may come in, it works with calcium to prevent excess hormone from being uptaken into the blood cells. Zinc is involved in the production, and selenium is involved in the conversion of t4 to t3. So in theory for a proper functioning thyroid, you need a decent balanced amount of all of them: Zinc, copper, iodine, selenium.

43873f3cea4f22f91653b0f5ec7ab9d9

(401)

on August 14, 2012
at 12:51 PM

+1 for US Wellness liverwurst.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 14, 2012
at 12:39 PM

Heres an article talking about the topic guys : http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/low-carb-diets-and-copper/

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:54 PM

If you are going to eat a high meat diet you might consider eating nose-to-tail. Perhaps the whole animal has the right proportions of minerals.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:32 PM

Yeah and copper deficiency can cause high cholesterol, I've said this in the past but I just got ignored :). I'll have to look up the tests they are at my parent's house (that's where my doctor lives). I did eat liver but not that much.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:32 PM

Thanks David, good stuff. I'd like to know the phytate content of different types of chocolate (cocoa, cocoa butter, ...). Looking for that now.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:50 PM

@korian. The huge phytate figures come from normal (fermented) cocoa powder and (processed some more chocolate) though. Even chocolate drinks (contain significant quantities of phytic acid and oxalate iirc). Phytate do have some impact on copper, just not as severe (http://www.ajcn.org/content/67/5/1054S.full.pdf) but in any case, phytic acid is not the only anti-nutrient.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:48 PM

^ You had a copper and zinc test after a low carb high meat diet w/o liver? What kind of test? What was your ratio? I didnt know people even did such tests. (BTW a wack ratio -too much zinc, not enough copper according to studies referenced by the USDA causes hypercholesterol)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:29 PM

I really, really doubt muscle meat 'supercharges' your thyroid. Maybe hyperthyroidism makes your body use copper too quicly?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:26 PM

If you're so worried about copper, cook in a copper pan... There are much more plausible reasons for why people fail on low carb : 'glucose deficiency', like Paul Jaminet often talks about, high tryptophan, high iron, high phosphorus if you don't eat dairy, not nutrient-dense at all if you're not eating copious amounts of veggies, ... My copper and zinc levels were just fine after months of low-carbing low with a high zinc:copper ratio. My cortisol, cholesterol and hemoglobin weren't though. After 6 weeks of high-carbing my cholesterol lowered a lot.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:25 PM

I don't think phytates chelate manganese or copper. I think they chelate calcium, magnesium, zinc, iron and some other stuff. Cocoa is fermented.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 12, 2012
at 11:59 AM

On the copper/antinutrient point, this (http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/6/803.full) is not precisely focused on the question but is suggestive (that it may be a problem).

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on August 12, 2012
at 11:54 AM

+1 for a very well presented question. I think we could all stand to read some empirical evidence regarding this issue.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 11:26 AM

^ You may be right. Good point. Although from what I read, the phytates in nuts at least primarily chelate iron, manganese and magnesium I think. I am not suggesting nuts or cocao is an ideal source anyway, given the quantities youd need to consume each day for a proper ratio with the zinc in meat anyway!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 11:24 AM

^ You may be right. Good point. Although from what I read, the phytates at least primarily chelate iron, manganese and magnesium, mostly iron. I am not suggesting nuts or cocao is an ideal source anyway, given the quantities youd need to consume each day for a proper ratio with the zinc in meat anyway!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 11:14 AM

I have read that article. I was figuring its compensatory. Admitedly its a bit confusing. I think there may be a subtlety in the differences between _free t3 and free t4, which are considered the proper markers for thyroid function, and total t3 and t4, which I am not quite following yet. At least free t3 and t4 are consider by people with thyroid knowledge to be the absolute stuff, whereas total t3 and t4 and especially TSH are considered to be often misleading...

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 12, 2012
at 11:06 AM

Just as an aside, I would be sceptical about how much copper you're absorbing from cocoa and nuts, given the enormous quantities of anti-nutrients in both.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 11:06 AM

It would be worse for women who need a 5:1 zinc copper ratio. Which means, for me, my bodies copper stores are being eaten up, and even if that isnt the cause of all this, for me, and for issues with people generally on high meat diets w/o copper foods like heart & liver etc, its noteworthy on some health level that copper is very needed on a high meat diet, if your want to hit that suggested ratio, and not become copper deficient over time..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 11:05 AM

At minimum, I am not getting a 10:1 ratio, as is generally advised for men. As above, I would have had to have been eating about a cup and a half of nuts a day, or as below, one half cup of unsweetened cocao powder a day to get that ratio!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:58 AM

Then looking back at my cronometer for the last few weeks I saw a pattern. Massive iron, large zinc, and not enough copper for the advised ratio. None of that is even a n=1 because I am still playing with it, but I have begun to entertain the idea based on my google searches and my own diet changes, especially understanding already that sodium and potassium exist in ratio balance, as do calcium and magnesium.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:55 AM

Regarding where I got this idea initially: http://www.ithyroid.com/hypert_recovery_story.htm This rather wacky ex-sports head supplement mad person basically expouses the copper theory of hyperT. I was skeptical at first, until I discovered a host of success stories on the net, following his methods. Then I started to look at the science. Now, its not clear by the science what copper does for the thyroid, but it is clear that selenium, copper, zinc are involved somehow. Also large doses of zinc do decrease copper, and they are supposed to exist in a ratio, like sodium and potassium.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:52 AM

Side note: Had a mere 50 grams of beef liver tonight. Actually if you cook it right, soak in some lemon juice etc, its pretty good. Amasing looking at how many nutrients are in it. You could have way too much vit a if you ate too much too often. Ontop of my nuts, that brings todays total of copper up to a whopping 9.8mgs.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:48 AM

This is more intellectual than personal, this question. While I am very keen to fix my own issues, I am also now fascinated with this zinc to copper ratio, and the mineral balance issues that may come with a higher nutrient diet. It all seems to fit so perfectly with so many peoples issues with low carb paleo..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:41 AM

I mean how does one lose weight, eating _more_ calories? Calories is basic math - calories in and out. Only way to get a raised basal metabolism without excercise (more out) is through a faster thyroid. Hyperthyroid folks struggle to keep weight on. Hypothyroid folks struggle to get it off. Admitedly again, all speculative, and possibly oversimplified, but it makes pretty good sense, from that speculative simple perspective...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:37 AM

I am pretty sure it has to do with _some_ kind of mineral imbalance. The lack of copper ratio thing makes total logical sense because my zinc intake (from meat) is way higher than copper intake, and way outside of the advised 10:1 ratio for males. And if I was a hunter gatherer eating this much meat, id be eating liver and heart (high copper foods). Its speculation, but it sounds right to me ATM. Why do people not tolerate "low carb" for example? Why do lots of people get anxiety/heart issues on "low carb"? Why all the massive weight loss with identical calories(or more)? It kind fits together

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:32 AM

I am not after a symptom suppressor per se, personally, I am interested in the cause. A shot of magnesium supplement does an adequate job of suppressing heartrate and anxiety in hyperthyroid. There are loads of goitergen foods too. But all these symptoms all only started when I changed my diet to paleo and started getting lots of nutrients.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:28 AM

Whereas a few cups of nuts a week, and 50 grams of beef liver a week will do an easy job...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:27 AM

^ Thats not really all that high, copper wise. A cup and a half of nuts has about 2mgs, and a mere 50grams of beef liver has about 4.5mgs, but that 3.3mgs is for a _whole_ cup of dry unsweetened cocoa. Considering I often eat about 18 mgs of zinc, to keep a ratio of 10:1 id need to eat half a cup of dry powered unsweetened cocao a day to keep a ratio! lol...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:24 AM

What I am surmising though, is that all of these minerals are needed in some ratio for the thyroid function. The "official" ratio of zinc to copper is 5:1 in females, 10:1 in males (because women use more copper for hormones). Its established that high zinc intake reduces copper, which is probably why this ratio is important. Even if it does not impact the thyroid (which it probably does in some way), its still something that could get out of wack with a high meat diet without significant copper foods.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:22 AM

TBH- All I know for sure, is that copper, zinc, selenium, iron and maganese all have some impact on the thyroid. The various studies dont really cast any light on what roles they may have, although we do know that Se converts t4 into t3, and I beleive that zinc is involved in production of TSH.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:20 AM

"Serum total thyroxine (T4) and free T4 were significantly lower and thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) greater in all iodine-deficient groups, regardless of Se or Zn status. Thyroid glutathione peroxidase activity was significantly reduced in Se− and Se−Zn− groups. " - http://jn.nutrition.org/content/129/1/174.full - this is the study that shows lack of zinc and selenium has some effect on thyroid function.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:19 AM

^ Yeah I read that. I was figuring its compensatory. Admitedly its a bit confusing. I saw a paper that shows dietary zinc, selenium and iodine deficiencies (in rats) all lead to *hypo*thyroid. And to contradict that, this study shows that copper and iron deficiencies both lead to lower t3 and t4. I think there may be a subtlety in the differences between _free_ t3 and t4, which are considered the proper markers for thyroid function, and total t3 and t4, which I am not quite following yet, and is confusing my interpretation of studies i have read so far.

  • Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

    asked by

    (5381)
  • Views
    4.4K
  • Last Activity
    1426D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

4 Answers

3
E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 12, 2012
at 08:53 AM

This paper suggests that in *hyper*thyroid, zinc levels are low and in *hypo*thyroid, zinc levels are high. Selenium was significantly lower in hyperthyroidism.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:20 AM

"Serum total thyroxine (T4) and free T4 were significantly lower and thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) greater in all iodine-deficient groups, regardless of Se or Zn status. Thyroid glutathione peroxidase activity was significantly reduced in Se− and Se−Zn− groups. " - http://jn.nutrition.org/content/129/1/174.full - this is the study that shows lack of zinc and selenium has some effect on thyroid function.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:24 AM

What I am surmising though, is that all of these minerals are needed in some ratio for the thyroid function. The "official" ratio of zinc to copper is 5:1 in females, 10:1 in males (because women use more copper for hormones). Its established that high zinc intake reduces copper, which is probably why this ratio is important. Even if it does not impact the thyroid (which it probably does in some way), its still something that could get out of wack with a high meat diet without significant copper foods.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:19 AM

^ Yeah I read that. I was figuring its compensatory. Admitedly its a bit confusing. I saw a paper that shows dietary zinc, selenium and iodine deficiencies (in rats) all lead to *hypo*thyroid. And to contradict that, this study shows that copper and iron deficiencies both lead to lower t3 and t4. I think there may be a subtlety in the differences between _free_ t3 and t4, which are considered the proper markers for thyroid function, and total t3 and t4, which I am not quite following yet, and is confusing my interpretation of studies i have read so far.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:22 AM

TBH- All I know for sure, is that copper, zinc, selenium, iron and maganese all have some impact on the thyroid. The various studies dont really cast any light on what roles they may have, although we do know that Se converts t4 into t3, and I beleive that zinc is involved in production of TSH.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 14, 2012
at 11:16 PM

Zinc seems to be eliminated in the urine of hyperthyroid folks, and copper levels found are higher in the blood, but knowing what I know do about there respective functions, I beleive this is most likely compensatory. Certainly low zinc in hypothyroid makes perfect sense on its own either way.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 11:14 AM

I have read that article. I was figuring its compensatory. Admitedly its a bit confusing. I think there may be a subtlety in the differences between _free t3 and free t4, which are considered the proper markers for thyroid function, and total t3 and t4, which I am not quite following yet. At least free t3 and t4 are consider by people with thyroid knowledge to be the absolute stuff, whereas total t3 and t4 and especially TSH are considered to be often misleading...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 14, 2012
at 11:14 PM

I have read now a little more on what copper actually does for the thyroid. Its got three roles. It helps initiate release of the hormone, it is involved in the production of thyroid stimulating hormone AND this is where the crux may come in, it works with calcium to prevent excess hormone from being uptaken into the blood cells. Zinc is involved in the production, and selenium is involved in the conversion of t4 to t3. So in theory for a proper functioning thyroid, you need a decent balanced amount of all of them: Zinc, copper, iodine, selenium.

2
7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on August 12, 2012
at 05:50 PM

A tasty way to get liver along with kidney and heart is liverwurst from US Wellness. I eat an ounce a day to get my copper and other micronutrients from organs. It's from grass-fed beef and really tastes good actually.

43873f3cea4f22f91653b0f5ec7ab9d9

(401)

on August 14, 2012
at 12:51 PM

+1 for US Wellness liverwurst.

1
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 12, 2012
at 04:06 PM

My thoughts are that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. You can't break down any aspect of health to just one set of ratios. It is not just do to lower PUFA or just that you increase D3 and on and on. Its the health of the system. I don't think eating paleo supercharges metabolism, it normalizes it.

Glad to see your gonna go choke down some liver :). I puree some raw liver into my boys smoothies...he never even flinches (he's clueless that its in there).

There are a couple of thyroid books that I like though for their discussion of where certain things can go wrong in the chain from TSH all the way down. This is one http://www.amazon.com/dp/1600376703/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=21513366107&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=20633319371106255088&hvpone=10.54&hvptwo=41&hvqmt=e&ref=pd_sl_5jblsa8bhl_e

0
B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 12, 2012
at 08:24 AM

Weight loss from the paleo diet is probably due to PUFA restriction, maybe because of the increased vitamin D3 intake too, no salt restriction, coconut oil and many other stuff.

Cocoa is high in copper too, I'd use that.

I honestly don't understand it though : if you want your thyroid to calm down, drink some cabbage juice (mmm :) ). No need to supplement anything.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:28 AM

Whereas a few cups of nuts a week, and 50 grams of beef liver a week will do an easy job...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:48 PM

^ You had a copper and zinc test after a low carb high meat diet w/o liver? What kind of test? What was your ratio? I didnt know people even did such tests. (BTW a wack ratio -too much zinc, not enough copper according to studies referenced by the USDA causes hypercholesterol)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:26 PM

If you're so worried about copper, cook in a copper pan... There are much more plausible reasons for why people fail on low carb : 'glucose deficiency', like Paul Jaminet often talks about, high tryptophan, high iron, high phosphorus if you don't eat dairy, not nutrient-dense at all if you're not eating copious amounts of veggies, ... My copper and zinc levels were just fine after months of low-carbing low with a high zinc:copper ratio. My cortisol, cholesterol and hemoglobin weren't though. After 6 weeks of high-carbing my cholesterol lowered a lot.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:32 AM

I am not after a symptom suppressor per se, personally, I am interested in the cause. A shot of magnesium supplement does an adequate job of suppressing heartrate and anxiety in hyperthyroid. There are loads of goitergen foods too. But all these symptoms all only started when I changed my diet to paleo and started getting lots of nutrients.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:37 AM

I am pretty sure it has to do with _some_ kind of mineral imbalance. The lack of copper ratio thing makes total logical sense because my zinc intake (from meat) is way higher than copper intake, and way outside of the advised 10:1 ratio for males. And if I was a hunter gatherer eating this much meat, id be eating liver and heart (high copper foods). Its speculation, but it sounds right to me ATM. Why do people not tolerate "low carb" for example? Why do lots of people get anxiety/heart issues on "low carb"? Why all the massive weight loss with identical calories(or more)? It kind fits together

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:29 PM

I really, really doubt muscle meat 'supercharges' your thyroid. Maybe hyperthyroidism makes your body use copper too quicly?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:41 AM

I mean how does one lose weight, eating _more_ calories? Calories is basic math - calories in and out. Only way to get a raised basal metabolism without excercise (more out) is through a faster thyroid. Hyperthyroid folks struggle to keep weight on. Hypothyroid folks struggle to get it off. Admitedly again, all speculative, and possibly oversimplified, but it makes pretty good sense, from that speculative simple perspective...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:48 AM

This is more intellectual than personal, this question. While I am very keen to fix my own issues, I am also now fascinated with this zinc to copper ratio, and the mineral balance issues that may come with a higher nutrient diet. It all seems to fit so perfectly with so many peoples issues with low carb paleo..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 12, 2012
at 10:27 AM

^ Thats not really all that high, copper wise. A cup and a half of nuts has about 2mgs, and a mere 50grams of beef liver has about 4.5mgs, but that 3.3mgs is for a _whole_ cup of dry unsweetened cocoa. Considering I often eat about 18 mgs of zinc, to keep a ratio of 10:1 id need to eat half a cup of dry powered unsweetened cocao a day to keep a ratio! lol...

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 12, 2012
at 01:32 PM

Yeah and copper deficiency can cause high cholesterol, I've said this in the past but I just got ignored :). I'll have to look up the tests they are at my parent's house (that's where my doctor lives). I did eat liver but not that much.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 08:24 AM

^ Yeah minerals do effect lipid levels. Too much zinc can drop your HDL, and too little copper can up your LDL. Of course the potential resulting thyroid mess could end up also lowering both of them :P

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!