4

votes

I am struggling and I need everyone's help and advice.

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 02, 2011 at 5:51 PM

Hey, everyone. I am really struggling here and I could use a bit of advice or some tea and sympathy, as they say :). I also need to vent. As I have stated on my profile, I have rosacea. I have reactive hypoglycemia. Long story short, it was getting really bad in January, I am a research hound so I hit the bricks and decided to go Paleo/Primal. My skin is better than its been than in all the years I tried so many medications and treatments. But now, after about 4 months, I have found I am in a bad cycle which I will describe further down. Here are some of the factors that are in play:

  1. I have been a very bad emotional overeater for about 10 years,
  2. I cannot have any grains or complex carbohydrates at all - no barley, no sugars, any kind of potato, millet, wheat, amaranth, legumes, corn, buckwheat, etc. I think the only thing that does not break me out or aggravate the rosacea is white rice. Believe me, I have tried them all. I haven't tried turnips or celery root, though. I can eat dairy, protein, nuts, fruit and veggies. I avoid all types of thickeners, kinds of sugars, etc. I definitely think it's the lectins in all those foods that is the issue for my skin.
  3. I have lost about 10-15 pounds, I am trying not to focus on the weight loss, although I have much to lose, my main goal is to heal my skin. But I have stopped losing....
  4. About the two to three week point of eating super clean I get the most overwhelming urges to binge - partly from the fact that I will always be an overeater (just as an alcoholic is always an alcoholic) and thats the way I self-soothed and dealt with stress, but I also think its because - here I am going to sound like a newbie (which I am) - maybe my blood sugar is too low?, my glycogen stores are depleted?

Referring to 4., I try to avoid going crazy and eating carbs by eating nuts and dried fruits. But one day I thought, goodness, I am gorging some days, so I have currently cut down the consumption of nuts, and I have cut out eating dried fruit in the meantime. But there are times where I give in, and go crazy and eat a big bag of cheetos or some horrible processed thing, and the next morning I am sorry, my face hurts and sometimes is a mess and I also feel horrible (When I eat any refined or processed carbs, I feel the difference in my energy at the gym!) This is the bad cycle I am stuck in now.

I cut back on using heavy cream, cream cheese, creme fraiche, sour cream, plain greek yogurt, and cheese, because I thought maybe I was overdoing it or maybe dairy was slowing my weight loss. I was keeping dairy in my diet since I couldn't have any complex carbs at all and it helped me vary my meals. I only use butter, and olive and coconut oil.

I also have an intuition that fruits, both dried and fresh, the sweet taste may set off cravings and may start that vicious cycle-but I could be wrong. Also, I was only using stevia, but I had a hunch it may set me off into cravings as well, so I stopped using that too-but this is just a hunch. I stopped drinking diet soda, it became too sweet, and I mostly drink water.

So here's what I think I am getting to, and would appreciate everyone's support, ideas and suggestions - is that because maybe the sweetness of fruit sets me off (or the wrong fruit) and since I cannot have any complex carbs at all (lectins), even a sweet potato, that maybe I am driving my insulin too low, or my glycogen stores get used up quicker, I have no way to store up with even good Paleo starches, or refeed, so I am driving my body crazy and thats why I am driven to binge. My only source of carbs is fruit and vegetables. I think my body is getting smart, and even though I exercise and eat paleo, my body is learning to hang onto the fat and and not let it go. I must be insulin resistant. Since this happens about every three weeks, I guess this is also the reason why I am not losing, any gains I have during the three weeks are negated by the binge and then I start again.

I was also taking 200 mcg of Chromium a day, which I am now down to 100, I am guessing that my insulin is so low at some points during the day thats why sometimes I am so ravenous and feel like binging too. But, again, I am not sure.

Would it be bad to have a cup of white rice once a week (since I don't break out from it), but being that my body is possibly insulin resistant, would this inhbit the weight loss? What harm would it to the good processes going on in my body that incur weight loss by eating paleo, then bam, I eat rice? Is this like dropping 10 ton of bricks on my liver? Would I be giving my body sugar shock? (like injecting heroin?) Would doing this harm any other organs or disrupt anything good happening in my body that I am not aware of? Is dairy a bad thing for someone in my circumstances? Would intermittent fasting help me?

I am really at a loss. I do not know what to do. I cannot and will not give up the paleo/primal lifestyle because it has really helped my skin and I feel SO MUCH better overall. But I need to learn how to live and enjoy, not suffer for a certain eating style, and not binge, and not spend my days obsessing over the next meal or focusing how hungry I am or fighting urges to binge, or dreading the next possible binge. I can't do this binge/cycle thing for the next twenty years. Please be kind and take pity on this newbie, don't be rough!

Thanks again for your advice in advance. I am open to all suggestions. Gratefully, Typeogirl

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

answer continued... c. my concerns on weightloss are more just that I was eating more calories in dairy & nuts & dried fruit then I was expending. simple calories in out. d. I have about 80 lbs. to lose. e. I don't THINK I need complex carbs-I am just wondering if since I am being more restrictive with the carbs I consume then most folks, I am doing myself a disservice by being too overly stringent to the point that eating Paleo would has less of an effect or my weightloss will go slower then expected. f. binges are two kinds: the I am starving binge, and the comfort binge.

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:11 PM

You're welcome, typeogirl. Soon you'll be experimenting and posting your great snack inventions. :-)

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 10:15 PM

these are such unbelieveable ideas! thanks for getting me started!

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 03, 2011
at 10:00 PM

Also, here's a snack recipe I posted a while back: http://paleohacks.com/questions/53322/what-are-your-most-inspired-and-improvised-recipes-for-munchie-fare/53383#53383 Lots of other people contributed snack suggestions in that thread, too.

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:55 PM

typeogirl, here are some recipes that will give you a great starting point. I followed recipes like these several times, then started modifying to suit my preferences. Now I can just wing it and make a good thing without a recipe. http://getwelllivewellbewell.blogspot.com/2011/01/recipe-protein-bars.html http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cocoa-and-coconut-snacks/ If you dare, you might even try the five-layer bacon bar: http://www.fitnessinanevolutionarydirection.com/2011/05/caveman-cuisine-5-layer-bacon-bar.html I've gotta try that bacon bar thing myself. Hope this helps.

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:50 PM

Here's what I do, typeogirl: put 1/4 c coconut oil in pan. Melt. Add 1/4 cup of 100% chocolate powder. Add 1 tsp vanilla. Now add as much flaked coconut as necessary to give a good consistency. Spoon out into two cupcake-paper thingies inside two small dishes. Refrigerate until solid. WARNING: I don't put in any sweetener, because I love dark chocolate and find the coconut quite sweet enough. Most people will think these are disgusting unless they add some honey, stevia, or some other sweetener. But hey, you can experiment and come up with something that's just right for you! :-)

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:46 PM

can you give me an idea what you mean by high fat yummy chocolate bomb things are? can you point me to some recipes? thanks!

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:59 AM

awesome nance! thank you so much. btw, when i am doing the comfort binge, the food tastes terrible, not like in the "old days".

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:57 AM

thanks albert. see my answer above about tracking my food. maybe i am not eating enough, or enough fat, and that would be the answer to the I am hungry binges. what is a burpee equivalent?

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:55 AM

i have had those moments with my head in the fridge, lol. thanks for the advice.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:55 AM

thanks luckybastard, very supportive! i appreciate it.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:53 AM

awesomely kind, shari. so thoughtful.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:53 AM

i am starting to get a better handle on glycogen and it's clearing up my confusion. annie, see my reply above to ben61820 about tracking my food.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:51 AM

ben61820 since i am an overeater, and always obsessed with losing weight, i wanted to not get all crazy with counting every morsel like on every other DIET in the past. i figured going paleo would give me an opportunity to change my mindset about food. i wanted to experience just eating what i could eat (til i was full) that was on the "approved list". maybe the time has now come to start looking at that aspect and honing in on a more effective way of eating. I can try to chart the next few days and get an idea of whats going on and share with everyone.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 01:08 AM

thx rose. i'm also starting to believe that many women- particularly the hard losers- may have some level of iodine deficieny. i would definitely like to see more research dealing with the correlation between hypothyroidism and insulin control.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:51 AM

I agree, LuckyBastard. I've seen plenty of success stories among people who return to carbs after breaking themselves of addiction. After all this time, I still think Dr. Atkins was pretty wise when he started people off on induction (20g or less/day for those who don't know), and had them gradually ramp up to find their critical carb level, or the maximum amount of carbs they could eat without gaining weight, going on binges, or (re)developing other symptoms. Nice answer.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 02, 2011
at 10:36 PM

in everything you wrote you havent told us how much you eat. How many calories and how many macro nutrients do you eat daily. This is the fundament. You sound dire but you need to know where you are at currently in order to know which direction to go in. How many grams of protein, carbohydrate, and fat do you eat daily. and how many calories do you eat daily. What site or system are you using to track them?

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d

(3717)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:49 PM

I don't know that I have much to add that Annie, Shari and others have already stated. My comment is to second what NewEra says about your glycogen concerns. Even if you are exercising quite a bit, unless you are competing on a regular basis and performing multiple workouts per day, I certainly would not be concerned about restoring glycogen. That takes care of itself for the every day joe/joan. I used to binge eat and had sugar cravings. I'm not VLC, but have limited sweets to a negligible amount. I eat a moderate amount of fat and quite a bit of protein and very rarely have sugar cravings.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:33 PM

animalcule, the only reason i suggested that i try eating some white rice was to store up some glycogen. i know see based on the answers here, that is not necessary. white rice is the only refined carb i don't react to, that's why i thought it could be a possibility for me.

0a2dd50f2d3951bf3fb83fc4638c9512

(1960)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:15 PM

Great advice, Shari.

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:22 PM

Is it possible to treat binging urges with white rice? How much white rice can you 'get away with'?

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:20 PM

Typeo-go to fitday and enter in all of your food. Let us know what your percentages are. I get most of my fat from grass-fed meats, nuts and heavy cream. Also helps to cook in coconut oil.

8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:01 PM

Again, your glycogen stores are not depleted. Unless you are doing A LOT of exercise (running in excess of 5 miles 6 days a week, doing a lot of heavy lifting, Cross Fit 5 times a week) your glycogen is fine. My intuition tells me you have maladaptive emotional relationships with food, and glycogen/bloodsugar worry is your way of reconciling a binge to us or yourself. Carbs munchies beget carb munchies. The more you eat the more you want (typically). It's also easy to eat a high # of calories in nuts VERY quickly, as they are nutrient-dense. Same with dried fruit, only they are sugar bombs too

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:00 PM

annie, yes, I was thinking the same thing - my cycle maybe? Also, can you give me an idea of what a day or weeks meal plan would be with 70% fat? can we exchange information off forum, or email or something? or can you post here?

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:59 PM

ditto. fruit/carbs ==> more carbs ==> less control. for me. for now.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:57 PM

NewEra-thank you, I had no idea I could store glycogen with fruit nuts & dairy. See, I am learning. I have not had dried fruit in 2 or 3 weeks now. So now I wonder why sometimes I am having the weak, "I am so hungry binge feeling" like if I don't eat now I am gonna pass out feeling-just plain old low blood sugar?

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:56 PM

thanks everyone! rose, I will look into VLC. Annie, see below (I haven't been eating white rice but it's the only carb I don't react to). A at a Grain Free Diet-I have tried evening primrose oil, no effect, my rosacea is an expression of something going wrong internally, namely, eating foods my body cannot handle or process. But I can try it again since my eating is different.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:48 PM

I noticed you said every three weeks...coinciding with your cycle?

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:45 PM

And don't go hungry. UP THE FAT.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:44 PM

How much exercise are you doing? I don't think your stores are depleted. I would severely limit carbs to small amounts of veggies and increase your fat intake to at least 70%. You might go through a period of low energy, but hang tough and you will come out the other side feeling better.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:36 PM

Shari and Annie, thanks. to answer questions: a. I have not been eating white rice. It was just a thought to refeed my glycogen, if I could eat a sweet potato once a week I could. I am wondering if the urges to binge are my body telling me it's runnning out. b. the cheetos & any of the stuff I binge on are all in my house. belonging to other members here, mostly my son. my hubby eats pretty good, healthy complex carbs, LOTS of fruits, proteins, he's doing well.

8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:32 PM

Dried fruit is very high in sugar, and that can inhibit weight loss. Also, if you are eating fruits, nuts, dairy, and occasionally binging on starchy things, your glycogen is not depleted at all. Dried fruit is like straight up candy, and it can indeed set of carb/sugar cravings. Stick with low sugar fruits if you must have some, like berries. All that dairy can halt weight loss too.

41dfb1a4fecb38d24075ff52f13ccb28

on August 02, 2011
at 06:32 PM

I'm not really awake enough to post a good answer yet, and will wait for your answer to Shari's questions, but I was wondering if you tried Evening Primrose Oil for your Rosacea at all? I've heard very good things about it and thought it might help your skin stay calm while you're sorting out your diet.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:24 PM

IMHO the only way to stop the cravings for those of us who are cravings challenged is to give up the carbs and up the fat.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:19 PM

PS Can't up-vote, ran out for the next 6 hours.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:19 PM

All great points Shari, I would think the fruit and white rice are contributing to the hypo and stall in weight loss.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:07 PM

I don't have time at the moment to give a detailed answer, but I just wanted to send a supportive note and say hang in there! To me, you sound like a prime candidate for VLC -- take a look at this thread here, and note all the folks who've lost sugar cravings by dropping carbs. It's currently unfashionable to champion LC in the Paleo world, but I'm standing by it; it improved my health and eradicated my constant urge to overeat: http://paleohacks.com/questions/55406/getting-it-started-trying-zc-or-vlc/55415#55415

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10 Answers

8
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on August 02, 2011
at 06:15 PM

First of all welcome! You've come to the right place for help. You have a lot going on here and I probably have more questions for you than answers at this point.

I think it would be very helpful if you could give us a typical day's menu and any ideas on your macronutrient intake if you track that at all. Also how much more weight do you have to lose? 15 lbs in 4 months is excellent. How long of a "stall" is this? Weight loss is not linear. There will be times where there is no weight loss for weeks on end and that does not necessarily mean you are doing something wrong or you need to change anything.

So skin loves paleo and that's on track. Great. You're on the right track.

Weight loss isn't happening at a speed you like. First I think you need to let go of the idea that you need complex carbs. Is that something you think you need for the hypo? I am so glad you are off the dried fruit. All fruit really. Bad news for reactive hypo and weight loss in general (for most) Is the hypo not controlled by low carbohydrate intake? When is this happening?

White rice sends me into a hypo-coma every times so don't go there unless you know for sure you can keep your BG stable eating it.

Are you in touch with what is setting off the binges? Are you feeling deprived? Just using food to deal with emotions related to the rest of your life? Where are you getting the Cheetos from? (ie can you and do you keep you home free of off plan foods?)

Fill us in a bit more and I'm sure many will have suggestions for you to try.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:44 PM

How much exercise are you doing? I don't think your stores are depleted. I would severely limit carbs to small amounts of veggies and increase your fat intake to at least 70%. You might go through a period of low energy, but hang tough and you will come out the other side feeling better.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:19 PM

All great points Shari, I would think the fruit and white rice are contributing to the hypo and stall in weight loss.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:45 PM

And don't go hungry. UP THE FAT.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:36 PM

Shari and Annie, thanks. to answer questions: a. I have not been eating white rice. It was just a thought to refeed my glycogen, if I could eat a sweet potato once a week I could. I am wondering if the urges to binge are my body telling me it's runnning out. b. the cheetos & any of the stuff I binge on are all in my house. belonging to other members here, mostly my son. my hubby eats pretty good, healthy complex carbs, LOTS of fruits, proteins, he's doing well.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:20 PM

Typeo-go to fitday and enter in all of your food. Let us know what your percentages are. I get most of my fat from grass-fed meats, nuts and heavy cream. Also helps to cook in coconut oil.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

answer continued... c. my concerns on weightloss are more just that I was eating more calories in dairy & nuts & dried fruit then I was expending. simple calories in out. d. I have about 80 lbs. to lose. e. I don't THINK I need complex carbs-I am just wondering if since I am being more restrictive with the carbs I consume then most folks, I am doing myself a disservice by being too overly stringent to the point that eating Paleo would has less of an effect or my weightloss will go slower then expected. f. binges are two kinds: the I am starving binge, and the comfort binge.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:48 PM

I noticed you said every three weeks...coinciding with your cycle?

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d

(3717)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:49 PM

I don't know that I have much to add that Annie, Shari and others have already stated. My comment is to second what NewEra says about your glycogen concerns. Even if you are exercising quite a bit, unless you are competing on a regular basis and performing multiple workouts per day, I certainly would not be concerned about restoring glycogen. That takes care of itself for the every day joe/joan. I used to binge eat and had sugar cravings. I'm not VLC, but have limited sweets to a negligible amount. I eat a moderate amount of fat and quite a bit of protein and very rarely have sugar cravings.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:53 AM

i am starting to get a better handle on glycogen and it's clearing up my confusion. annie, see my reply above to ben61820 about tracking my food.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:19 PM

PS Can't up-vote, ran out for the next 6 hours.

8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:01 PM

Again, your glycogen stores are not depleted. Unless you are doing A LOT of exercise (running in excess of 5 miles 6 days a week, doing a lot of heavy lifting, Cross Fit 5 times a week) your glycogen is fine. My intuition tells me you have maladaptive emotional relationships with food, and glycogen/bloodsugar worry is your way of reconciling a binge to us or yourself. Carbs munchies beget carb munchies. The more you eat the more you want (typically). It's also easy to eat a high # of calories in nuts VERY quickly, as they are nutrient-dense. Same with dried fruit, only they are sugar bombs too

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:00 PM

annie, yes, I was thinking the same thing - my cycle maybe? Also, can you give me an idea of what a day or weeks meal plan would be with 70% fat? can we exchange information off forum, or email or something? or can you post here?

6
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on August 02, 2011
at 07:24 PM

I'm going to start another answer because I have too much to say that it won't fit in a comment space.

So you agree you don't need complex carbs. Perfect.

As to the two forms of binging try the rice and see how it goes. I agree with Annie that you are not one who needs to worry about glycogen replenishment but if you feel this may be an issue then try it. I would place them PWO if possible. Or use them at an evening meal as a treat which may help both the physical and emotional. In your position I would not do more than 100g as your carb up day. Do this maybe once a week and see how it makes you feel.

On other days I think we all seem to agree that a VLC menu with plenty of fat is the way to go at least from a physical standpoint.

Psychologically you will need to figure out how to head the binges off at the pass but also how to have them in a way that causes the least amount of damage and how to get right back on the wagon (which you don't seem to be having a problem with. Is that correct?) For me I keep stuff on hand (in the freezer) that is decadent and delicious and makes me feel like I'm being "treated" so I always have it on hand if I come home from a particularly heinous day and and struggling. Get familiar with some of the paleo treats available. Because you are going to limit fruit you might try the frozen banana ice cream for instance. Even frozen strawberries (a better choice) blended with some cream makes something quite delicious. I keep buckets of creamed cauliflower (faux mashed potatoes) in my freezer as well. A big bowl of that with a burger makes me feel like a new woman on those days I just want to end. There are a million ideas out there for paleo brownies and cookies, etc but the gist of it is to find paleo substitutes for your comfort foods and have them ready or have the ingredients handy at all times. I agree that you want to watch the sweet taste but to forgo it completely may be a mistake. I think you can use sweet tastes effectively without setting yourself off but obviously you'll need to make that call for yourself. I just can't restrict that much but if you can with no ill effects that may be best.

You may want to start incorporating a "treat meal" once a week where you allow yourself to have some really delicious things that are paleo but not something you would normally be eating on a daily basis. So no more carbs per se but just food that "feels" good to you. Just knowing that Wed night is a meal to look forward to can help when the urge hits. If you know you only have to wait a day or two to indulge it helps. So similar to the carb refeed you are talking about but more of an emotional refeed with your food.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:53 AM

awesomely kind, shari. so thoughtful.

0a2dd50f2d3951bf3fb83fc4638c9512

(1960)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:15 PM

Great advice, Shari.

4
66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

on August 03, 2011
at 12:24 AM

i just wanted to drop a work of support. congratulations on what you've accomplished so far. there are a lot of people in this community who come from different backgrounds and hopefully will have some good advice you can use.

i don't think that everyone who starts paleo should go low carb or very low carb but it seems like it may be the ticket for you. i think it will do two things: i think it will break that sugar addiction and give your brain a chance to heal from all the hyper-stimulation that years or decades of sweet stuff has put on it. i also think it will help with pathologic insulin resistance that is almost certainly a factor. i don't believe you'll always have to stay this way. i went vlc for several months and then slowly ramped myself back up to having as much paleo carbs as i want. however, it does take time and tinkering.

good luck

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:55 AM

thanks luckybastard, very supportive! i appreciate it.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:51 AM

I agree, LuckyBastard. I've seen plenty of success stories among people who return to carbs after breaking themselves of addiction. After all this time, I still think Dr. Atkins was pretty wise when he started people off on induction (20g or less/day for those who don't know), and had them gradually ramp up to find their critical carb level, or the maximum amount of carbs they could eat without gaining weight, going on binges, or (re)developing other symptoms. Nice answer.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 01:08 AM

thx rose. i'm also starting to believe that many women- particularly the hard losers- may have some level of iodine deficieny. i would definitely like to see more research dealing with the correlation between hypothyroidism and insulin control.

3
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on August 02, 2011
at 09:08 PM

We, and I mean we, have a tough road to follow. With due respect to those who say give up carbs, my personal experience is that I can give up carbs for 1-6 months and then I will go on a humongous binge that lasts a long time.

First, learn the difference between physical and emotional hunger. Physical hunger won't go away until you eat. Emotional hunger is much more intense (I've always called it binge fever) but you can distract yourself if you really want to.

So what has helped me? I make sure I eat carbs, including fruit, on a regular basis so the intense cravings don't build to a crisis. To help limit my urges, I eat meat and fat 'til I feel fairly satisfied then I eat my veggies and fruit. When the urges hit again--and they do--I imagine eating something, visualizing the insane pleasure of eating it it over and over and then I decide "Nope, not gonna do it today, I don't need to." Most days that works for me. Going for a long walk helps too. There have been many times when I said, "If I still want it that bad when I get back from ... I'm going to eat it." Well, when I get back I realize the urge is gone because I've been thinking about other things.

Now, let's assume the worst and say you give in and cheat. Ok, pay attention! What, if anything, actually tasted as good as you thought it would? Do you feel happy after eating it or just miserable? I found soda tasted horrible, ice cream made me sick, even fries were yucky, BUT a soft-serve cone tasted good and didn't make me sick or cause immense guilt. So now, I fight my urges on a daily basis but once every week or 2 I go have a soft-serve cone. I savor every lick, relishing my treat, and then I go on with my new lifestyle. There are no leftovers, it hasn't stopped my gradual weight loss and for the first time in my life I'm learning to have moderate treats rather than 4,000 calorie binges.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:59 AM

awesome nance! thank you so much. btw, when i am doing the comfort binge, the food tastes terrible, not like in the "old days".

2
0a2dd50f2d3951bf3fb83fc4638c9512

(1960)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:14 PM

Hi typeo -- just wanted quickly to say good job on your efforts! Keep it up -- sounds like you're on the right track. Agree with everything that's been posted here. A thought -- you may want to get your son off the junk, too -- besides just being good for him and helping him develop good nutrition habits, I know for myself, if something is in the house, I will eat it -- I exercise most of my self-discipline in the grocery store by just not buying anything on the "evil list"!

Don't know how much you're exercising -- might help to know what you're doing. Good call on trying to eliminate all the sweet fruits -- even though it's fructose, as a PT friend of mine likes to say, "sugar is sugar is sugar" -- doesn't matter if it's fructose, HFCS, sucrose, dextrose, stevia, agave, etc. -- it's all the same in the end.

As others have also said, you may in fact not be eating enough -- particularly in the fat category -- but you don't want to overdo it. Like you, I can easily go crazy with the nuts and almond butter -- I love it so much! We all know that Paleo isn't about counting calories or watching the scale, but portion control does come into play to an extent, especially if you're trying to drop excess weight. That said, eat quality food high in nutrient value when you're hungry -- that should address the "I'm hungry" binges. For the "comfort binges," just keep at it -- it gets easier. I like to try to translate my intake into "burpee equivalents" -- helps me resist a lot of things! ;)

Here's another recent PH question with a lot of good info, too.

Good luck!

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:57 AM

thanks albert. see my answer above about tracking my food. maybe i am not eating enough, or enough fat, and that would be the answer to the I am hungry binges. what is a burpee equivalent?

1
Ca8111fb6e3bac177373a82f5d33910d

(135)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:37 AM

I have to avoid some fruits in order to keep the binges at bay. Tart apples seem to be ok for me, but a fresh pear can send me on a downward spiral very quickly. For some odd reason, bananas don't seem to trigger the binges (perhaps because I eat them when they are half-green?).

Every time I have a binge I try to spend more time reading on paloe (on PH, the Whole9 site, and Robb Wolf's site, as well as assorted books I've picked up over the years). It helps to keep the one-day binge from turning into a three-week binge.

Good luck. You're not the only one.

1
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:12 AM

This is just my personal experience, but if I drop all fruit other than a few raspberries or strawberries, and add fat (a spoonful of coconut oil with meals), I don't get sugar cravings, and have no desire for more food than I need to satisfy hunger.

I "helped" my son with the banana and raisins he was snacking on earlier, and now I keep sticking my head in the fridge to see what else we have to eat. Use me as your cautionary tale, and definitely shelve the dried fruit for now if you are trying to turn off cravings.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:55 AM

i have had those moments with my head in the fridge, lol. thanks for the advice.

1
B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 02, 2011
at 09:36 PM

Congratulations on all your success so far, typeogirl! That's huge.

I don't know enough to give good answers to all the things you're wondering about, so I'll just share the one thing that makes a huge difference to me: I make paleo-style high-fat, yummy chocolate bomb things and keep them in the freezer. If I do feel the need to snack, I've got a good option right there.

Would having safe-but-yummy snacks on hand help, do you think?

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:46 PM

can you give me an idea what you mean by high fat yummy chocolate bomb things are? can you point me to some recipes? thanks!

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 03, 2011
at 10:00 PM

Also, here's a snack recipe I posted a while back: http://paleohacks.com/questions/53322/what-are-your-most-inspired-and-improvised-recipes-for-munchie-fare/53383#53383 Lots of other people contributed snack suggestions in that thread, too.

8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

(248)

on August 03, 2011
at 10:15 PM

these are such unbelieveable ideas! thanks for getting me started!

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:50 PM

Here's what I do, typeogirl: put 1/4 c coconut oil in pan. Melt. Add 1/4 cup of 100% chocolate powder. Add 1 tsp vanilla. Now add as much flaked coconut as necessary to give a good consistency. Spoon out into two cupcake-paper thingies inside two small dishes. Refrigerate until solid. WARNING: I don't put in any sweetener, because I love dark chocolate and find the coconut quite sweet enough. Most people will think these are disgusting unless they add some honey, stevia, or some other sweetener. But hey, you can experiment and come up with something that's just right for you! :-)

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:55 PM

typeogirl, here are some recipes that will give you a great starting point. I followed recipes like these several times, then started modifying to suit my preferences. Now I can just wing it and make a good thing without a recipe. http://getwelllivewellbewell.blogspot.com/2011/01/recipe-protein-bars.html http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cocoa-and-coconut-snacks/ If you dare, you might even try the five-layer bacon bar: http://www.fitnessinanevolutionarydirection.com/2011/05/caveman-cuisine-5-layer-bacon-bar.html I've gotta try that bacon bar thing myself. Hope this helps.

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:11 PM

You're welcome, typeogirl. Soon you'll be experimenting and posting your great snack inventions. :-)

0
132966e25fc0fea184ed0895f6d28ad4

(131)

on August 05, 2011
at 03:18 AM

Hey Typogirl, great to see you have had so many great responses and i can tell your pumped to try some new recipies, and your feeling better about your predicament...

Like so many others have said, your not alone and here is my 2cents worth :)

Good idea about tracking just for the short term, this is what i have started to do also....but another suggestion totally not related to food, is have you to gone to see a psychologist and/or hypnotherapist...and im not talking about 1 or two sessions, im talking for a good period on a weekly basis...we create habits over decades and sometimes people say i saw a therapist(for a week or two) and then says oh it didnt work!!!!! ( Well the bingeing cycle didnt just happen over a week or two either)

I have seen a psychologist on a weekly basis for about 8 months then scaled it down to fortnightly for about 4 months and now i still see her every month...probably forever, i dont care, the amount of money i have spent on binges and illegal drugs (to curb my apetite) i can certainly justify spending money on therapy....

So thats my 2 cents and i hope you find inner peace sooner rather than later, be kind to yourself and love yourself...many of us wouldnt even want our enemys to be treated the way we treat ourselves!!! Goodluck :)

0
8c509aac21bdb54b3ca91de2da994b9b

on August 04, 2011
at 01:08 PM

Everyone, I decided to track my food for the next couple days and see the numbers on how i am eating. I am trying not to get so caught up in the numbers since I know my overeater/yoyo dieter mind can get obsesses and that sets me up for failure and i know that's not what paleo/primal is all about, but i see the necessity of trying to polish and hone my eating in order to make it effective. I will keep you all posted on my progress. Thanks for all your advice, keep it coming. It made me feel so much better!

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