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Calling all SIBO experts..

Answered on October 14, 2015
Created November 12, 2014 at 7:42 PM

Hi! I am doing a little self diagnosing here and wondering if SIBO could be my problem area. Since nothing has been working for some time. Here are a list of symptoms I have been experiencing:

-Bloating almost every day, especially after I eat
-Bloating goes down when I go very low carb (under 50mg including veggies)
-inability to loose weight on low calorie diet (1300 calories and under)
-yeast smell when I urinate several times a month
-constipation
-very loose stool when I do go or rabbit pellets
-sugar addiction when I have fallen off the paleo wagon in the past
-when I took 1t diatomaceous earth last month for 3 days I experienced terrible nausea and acid reflux (DE is known to kill parasites/bacteria in the gut)
-food allergies (gluten/celiac reaction, dairy, sugar, etc.)
-bouts of depression/anxiety
 
-I have been "paleo" for about 4 years
-And for the past 6 months specifically avoid all known or potential allergens-so my diet is strictly meats, veggies (low/no nightshade, mostly non-starchy), & clarified butter/coconut oil
-I recently removed my homemade kombucha i was drinking about 4oz every night, and removed white rice and lowered my starchy veggies as well (about 2 weeks ago)
-I did a specific candida diet for 6 weeks in May 

The reason I believe this may be SIBO is because there seems to be an underlying condition my almost "perfect diet" has not corrected in the last 4+ years..specifically with bloating/water retention being the issue (symptom).

 

thank you all!!

Dcd959815e0e72683d832644db64dd84

(0)

on January 05, 2015
at 03:21 AM

Sounds like IBS which I've had for years. I thought I had SIBO too but have made big improvements with a Paleo diet INCLUDING RS (resistant starch) specifically 'unmodified' potato starch (Bobs Red Mill). Not very low carb BUT NO grains, milk, and no additional fiber foods and no no on fruits (maybe some berries sometimes) .... (I never made those connections in the past and always ate fruit for sweets cravings and fiber for constipation).

If you try RS, start with only one teaspoon as initially lots of (painless) gas. I now use 2 tablespoons twice a day and it's tasteless stirred in water and also very inexpensive. Plenty of very interesting and encouraging (even amazing) info about it so try googling safe starches, potato starch, RS etc. I've 'ONLY' had this problem for 50 plus years  and have tried many many things, so I know how stubborn it is.

Eating sweets will always trigger my gut stuff and I have to start over. Slippery elm bark herb is not well known but good and soothing.

Good luck, never give up and enjoy what you eat.

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8 Answers

best answer

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 13, 2014
at 02:04 PM

Say to no self-diagnosis. Go to a doctor, get legit medical advise. A proper diet cannot fix everything and that's the only think we can recommend. 

Medium avatar

(10601)

on November 13, 2014
at 10:11 PM

Overthinking may not be the cause of Paleo but it is usually a symptom....

7fdbd2452ae2021ab9678774b7eb28fd

on November 14, 2014
at 04:08 PM

I appreciate you taking the time to answer but if I could afford to go get a diagnosis I would certainly do that hence why I'm on paleo hacks asking based on experience.

3
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19473)

on November 17, 2014
at 11:33 AM

Ignore Gastronomer, he thinks he knows everything and as usual is very abrasive. I hope he works in the food industry and not the medical, he'd make for a terrible doctor with bedside manners that would freeze a polarbear.... :)

 

But, Matt is right, you should get it tested because the fix, if it is SIBO, involves antibiotics, which you can only get through a doctor.  It is possible you've had an overgrowth of candida or other yeast, or unfriendly gut bacteria due to a very low carb diet.

 

Make sure that your stomach produces enough HCL, without proper stomach acid, you won't signal pancreatic enzymes and will have issues digesting fats as well, but will also prevent killing off pathogens from food.  If you eat a piece of meat, does it feel like it just sits there in your stomach? If so, you've got low stomach acid, and may even have H. Pylorii (also another thing that a doctor can test for via a breath test).  If this is the case, you'll need to supplement with Betaine HCL before meals, as well as minerals such as zinc, potassium, iodine, magnesium as these are also needed to make stomach acid and general health.

 

Slowly reintroducing carbs, especially resistant starch will help -- you might want to delay this until you've got a diagnosis as it could make things worse if there really is SIBO or candida overgrowth.  You could take Soil Based Organisms and Sacchraomyces Boulardii, but do not do this until you resolve the SIBO - if it is SIBO or you'll make it much worse. Once you know what it is, check out Dr. Allison Siebecker's work at http://www.siboinfo.com/ or Dr. Grace Liu at http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/

 

So perhaps, initially start by increasing meat and fat intake to levels proper for your age and ideal lean body mass, but add extra protein so that enough glucose is made via gluconeogenesis.  You can use this calculator here: http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/  to figure out your daily caloric intake.  Make sure you multiply the BMR number by your activity level from here: http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/   - this will tell you how much food to eat per day.

 

Next, figure out what your ideal lean body mass should be in pounds, (i.e. if you're 10lbs overweight substract 10lbs from your current weight), multiply this by either 0.8 or 1.0, this will give how many grams of protein to eat per day.  Next, multiply this by 3 for chicken or 4 for beef, this will tell you how many grams of meat to eat per day.

 

A good shortcut is to eat 3 palm sized portions of meat per day, and in your case a little bit extra (maybe half a palm extra) since you can't yet do carbs.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on November 17, 2014
at 02:43 PM

What would the quilt say?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19473)

on November 18, 2014
at 03:50 PM

You could always go on his webpage and ask. :)  http://jackkruse.com/

 

A2cec60e836de2d9dbe43d456cac2dab

(146)

on July 04, 2015
at 05:04 PM

holy hell, you are BRILLIANT.

3
0f8f77156cd0667d43194fc4b8bc3b5d

on November 17, 2014
at 05:49 AM

You can get get a confirming diagnosis for SIBO with a non-invasive methane breath test/hydrogen breath test.

Even if you have to pay out of pocket, it is not terribly expensive.

Ask any doctor for a referral to get this done so you will know for sure if SIBO is what you have, then go from there.

2
3c55115f34a41fcfcfbba657fa603942

on February 19, 2015
at 05:42 AM

SIBO expert here!  Qualifications:  Nutritionist and former SIBO sufferer.  Let me correct some of GASTRONOMER's statements.  1.  You most certainly can have a sugar allergy.  It is not as uncommon as you may think.  2.  A hallmark sign of SIBO is the inability to lose weight despite restricting carbs and calories.  One can even be in deep ketosis and not be able to shed any pounds. 

This is do to the bacterial flora in the gut, and the inflammation that is created from undigested food which ferments due to a slow migratory motor complex.  I would definitly test for SIBO, and I would not at all be surprised if you had methane-producing buggers in your intestines. 

It is not true that you need to take antibiotics for this.  Herbal treatments have outperformed antibiotics on several studies.  I actually prefer to use the elemental diet for weight resistant SIBO.  I've found it to be far more successful. 

Anyway, I am so sorry you have been going through this and I am so sorry that others doubt your ratios or your food intake!

 

7fdbd2452ae2021ab9678774b7eb28fd

on February 19, 2015
at 02:45 PM

Mary-thank you for your comment! After I posted this in November, I went ahead and did Christa Orecchio's Candida Cleanse for about 10 weeks and have since moved on to a ketogenic seafood heavy diet as reccomended by Dr.Kruse on the Leptin Reset. I feel that both of these protocols have helped my symptoms dramatically. However, I still experience bloating often, have iregular BMs and am not loosing weight as fast as I probably should be on such a diet. I added in fermented veggies, avocado and larger amounts of coconut (butter, flour) last week and im wondering if this is the reason my bloating has come back more.

Since I did do the candida cleanse, I have already done 10 weeks of rotating herbal antibiotics. Not sure I want to take even more of them. Besides considering the elemental diet, what else do you reccomend I do? I don't necessarily have the funds to get the test right now:(

1
C583b1d95ae714dcfad6171614a240dd

on November 13, 2014
at 07:58 AM

I am sorry you are having gastric distress. It does not sound like SIBO to me but I am not a professional. I can think of three gastric conditions and one liver condition that would explain your symptoms. Have you consulted either a gastroenterologist or a naturopath who specializes in gastric conditions? I was diagnosed with SIBO three years ago. The test is a combination of breath tests and diet stimuli. It is painless to take. The condition is chronic and usually treated with a rotation of systemic antibiotics. There is a targeted antibiotic, Xifaxin, that only works in the intestine. I am lucky enough to be able to use that one and not risk the side-effects or antibiotic resistance that can result from systemic antibiotics.

My symptoms included crippling pain in the pelvic saddle, rectal incontinence, and high fevers. I do not have a large intestine. Part of my small intestine acts as a large intestine. It is called a j-pouch. There are many discussions about SIBO at j-pouch.org. 

I have been in remission since I started an adapted autoimmune Paleo diet. 

BTW: your sugar sensitivity could be very important to your diagnosis. Make sure you include it at your appt. If you have negative reactions to alcohol, that would also be important for your doctor to know.

i wish you all the best!

7fdbd2452ae2021ab9678774b7eb28fd

on November 14, 2014
at 04:08 PM

Thank you for your thoughtful answer!

1
7fdbd2452ae2021ab9678774b7eb28fd

on November 13, 2014
at 01:56 AM

I'm sorry, I thought this was a site where people genuinely tried to help one another in their paleo journey. Not criticize their knowledge, diet, or ability to count. I have been counting calories despite the real significance it holds for 7 years with gram scales etc and I'm pretty damn close in my tracking if science means anything. So yes I do eat low carb and low calorie and have for years. Which probably has a lot to do with why I CANT loose weight. So I'm sorry to tell you that your MATH of the human body is inaccurate. Note that I'm aware of the cycle I am in which is exactly why I am looking for EXPERTISE or experiences with SIBO. No thank you for your time. Now if there is anyone who does understand the human body just a smidge and knows some info on SIBO I would lovingly appreciate it:)

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on November 13, 2014
at 01:19 PM

If you're not losing weight it means you have to eat less. So if you're eating 1300, lower it down to 1000, simple. You will lose the weight. It is IMPOSSIBLE to stay fat eating only 1000 calories a day.

Remember, you don't know anything about how the human body works, so please don't say that you do, you're embarrasing yourself. 

Medium avatar

(10601)

on November 14, 2014
at 04:08 AM

Show us the evidence. We aren't Sherlock Holmes here, able to deduce conclusions based on symptoms. Lab tests.

7fdbd2452ae2021ab9678774b7eb28fd

on November 14, 2014
at 04:10 PM

Forgive me I assumed most paleo folks knew by now that less calories is not only ineffective for long term weight loss but detrimental to your health and weight loss efforts

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on November 14, 2014
at 04:22 PM

Less calories is detrimental to weight loss?

You know what...you just answerewd the question as to why you are fat. Anyone who thinks eating less calories will make them fat has no common sense. No wonder you're fat.

I guess those starving children in Africa eating 500 calories a day are all obese right? What about those starving concentration camp victims, where they obese too? What about anorexics that weigh 80 lbs, are they obese too?

You're fat because you're eating too much of something.

7fdbd2452ae2021ab9678774b7eb28fd

on November 14, 2014
at 05:43 PM

Look, TheGastronomer504- this is the last thing I am going to say- in hopes that you will allow your mind to be opened. First off, I am not fat. I was anorexic for the past 7 years and because of a reintroduction of carbs I gained some weight back. It was within a period of a month. I then resitricted my carbs and calories even further than when i was underweight and it is not budging. Why? Because it is a biological response. Not a mathmatical one. All I can do is encourage you to let go of your one-way thinking and do some legitamite research in these feilds. My expertise is not in SIBO thus why I am asking for help in this area. I do not need a lecture on carbs or calories. I actually understand their role rather well.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on November 14, 2014
at 06:23 PM

So eat 500 calories a day, let me know how long your weight "doesn't budge".

If you can pull it off, then you could win a Nobel prize and we will finally have a cure for world hunger.

D6589f2167faa0de590bda2c9d3f13f0

(-4)

on January 04, 2015
at 10:46 PM

Hi Haley :o)  Sorry for the idiot attack you've been enduring.  I have the same issue actually.  Been wondering if I have a SIBO problem also because of persistant symptoms.  VLC, no eggs/dairy/nightshades.  What I've also seen is a FODMAP issue, in my case I'm reacting to almost ALL fructans. I don't live in the states anymore, so getting the testing isn't even possible... gotta figure it out on my own and treat it hopefully on my own.  I hope you have the SIBO test.  It's seemingly treatable and curable through antibiotics or restrictive carb diet for a period of time. You probably know that already though ;0)

 

7fdbd2452ae2021ab9678774b7eb28fd

on January 04, 2015
at 11:32 PM

@Stienster- I appreciate your input! And am terribly sorry you are struggling with some of the same symptoms. Sounds like you are doing several things to relieve them as am I. I have learned over the years that eliminating close to everything in one's diet can sometimes make matters worse-so I push caution on that. But believe me, I am at the same point myself! Its a slippery slope. I do have access to testing here in the States, however, I do not plan on getting it done at this point. The more I research potential causes the more I realize diagnoses such as "SIBO" still may be yet another symptom while a deeper cause lies below. Testing is important, don't get me wrong, but when your a college student with limited funds testing for every possible cause can be unattainable. My latest research has been that of bacterias like h pylori (that can cause these poliferations of other bacterias or yeast), viruses and what causes the immune system to be suspetible in the first place. A Comprehensive stool analysis may be a great indicator as to what is going on at the source.  But still no clear concise answer. I will update if I find anything. My best advice is to be the best self researcher you can be meanwhile staying grounded in the truth that you are more than your physical body-never neglecting your mind and spirit. May you be blessed with health!

0
69fbb47642b1b8c32bd659320dd23552

on October 14, 2015
at 04:33 PM

I have the exact same problem and my doctor gave me a SIBO breath test to take. As I'm doing more research, you and I have very similar symptoms. It really sucks so I totally understand! I have tons of food restrictions and am really low in iron. I also consume 1300 calories a day (and healthy ones!) and I workout 5/6 days out of the week including a minimum of 30 mins in cardio. Did you ever get tested for SIBO? I plan to take my test this weekend, and hoping this solves some problems. If so, do you or do you know anyone who experiences weight loss after being diagnosed and medicated for SIBO?

 


Thanks and Good luck! Hope everything is going well.

-Katherine

-3
Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on November 12, 2014
at 08:42 PM

You are eating low carb and under 1300 calories per day?? And you can't lose weight? Hmmm...I call BS

By the way there is no such thing as a sugar allergy, if there was, you would not exist. Saying you have a sugar allergy is about as stupid as saying you have a water allergy or an oxygen allergy, come on now, be more honest in your post so we can take your question seriously.

Anyway, if you really are serious about losing weight, just eat less calories or carbs, depending on the approach you choose. If doing low-carb then eat less carbs, if doing low-calorie, then eat less calories. Eventually there is a point at which the human body cannot create energy out of nothing since it requires a minimum number of calories to function, so it will lose weight (which is why low calorie works). However, research shows that low-carb reduces your insulin a lot so you can lose the weight while eating more calories than on a high-carb low-calorie diet.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on November 13, 2014
at 04:10 PM

Yeah probably, but come on, a sugar allergy? That's....that doesn't even make sense. The human body literally need glucose (in the blood) to live, at any given time your blood contains sugar. If a person was allergic to sugar, they'd be literally dead as the body would begin an allergic reaction to itself. Think about it, it makes no sense at all.

39a1a0bc7855c084ac59df60fdf9c0dd

(1505)

on November 13, 2014
at 03:21 PM

That seems unnecessarily harsh.

7fdbd2452ae2021ab9678774b7eb28fd

on November 14, 2014
at 04:06 PM

Okay. It's called termonology. I recognize it may not be a literal allergic reaction to sugar, but it is a reaction nonetheless. In which my body responds negatively towards the substance. Anyway I didn't write this post in hopes of an argument. Your input is no longer needed. And my hope is you will not continue lurking on paleo hacks providing non helpful critical answers to people who are merely asking for logical advice.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on November 14, 2014
at 04:23 PM

Logical advice? Oh you must mean like telling people to eat less in order to lose weight? Or that there is no such thing as a sugar allergy? Yeah that's exactly what I did. 

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19473)

on November 17, 2014
at 11:10 AM

It's not BS, if you do this, undereat and stay very low carb, you cause much adrenal distress and chronic at that.  This causes gluconeogenesis to go into overdrive, causes an inability to sleep, and tons of other problems including very poor sleep, which in turn causes more issues and insulin resistance beyond the physiological.  Incase you didn't know Grastronomer, two nights of bad sleep is enough to cause the same kind of insulin resistance that a full blow type 2 diabetic experiences.  I know, because I did this without feeling it.  At first you feel awesome, but over time it deteriorates your health and you paradoxically gain fat as you lose muscle and get heavier.  To avoid this, ensure you get at least 50g/day to 100g/day of carbs, and plenty of protein and fats.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on November 17, 2014
at 01:29 PM

That's not how it works raydawg. While it is true that elevated levels of cortisol can raise blood glucose levels, this is not what happens during starvation (blood glucose actually drops a bit during starvation). If a person is doing low-carb and keeping their calories very low, the body becomes insulin resistant in order to preserve blood glucose for the brain and use ketones for everything else, on this I agree with you so far.

However, this does not cause weight gain in any way shape or form, this leads to very fast weight loss (starvation). Why? Because insulin resistance = resistance to the fat storage hormone. The reason the body does this is because it is burning fat for energy. Do you know what resistance means? It means the body does not listen to insulin, the fat storage hormone....why do you think people with advanced type 2 diabetes lose weight when their diabetes is not well managed? Because their body is insulin resistant. Insulin resistance causes weight loss not weight gain.

Think about it...insulin causes weight gain, therefore resistance to it causes weight loss. Lookup the symptoms of advanced type 2 diabetes, you will see weight loss right there.

The problem is that fat people develop insulin resistance as a negative feedback mechanism where their body is literally trying to keep them from gaining any more weight, this is why diabetics with full blown insulin resistance have blood glucose in the 200's or higher, because their cells are not taking up the glucose and the kidneys are literally throwing away glucose in the urine, in other words, throwing away calories in order to prevent further weight gain. Fat people develop insulin resistance, insulin resistance does not cause people to get fat; eating causes people to get fat.

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