4

votes

What causes obesity (part II)

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 16, 2012 at 9:19 PM

After reading these articles:

  1. http://news.discovery.com/human/children-drug-antibiotic-obese-fat-weight-120821.html

  2. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21428625.100-gutmicrobe-swap-changes-eating-habits.html

  3. http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20120726194302data_trunc_sys.shtml

I am inclined to think that obesity COULD BE caused by altered gut flora. By taking antibiotics, ingesting grains and sugar as well as other processed foods we are 1. reducing our beneficial bacteria 2. helping our pathogenic bacteria to multiply (and kill off our little friendly guys).

So, if this is the case, the solution must be to isolate the types of bacteria that help skinny people to stay skinny and figure out how to re-populate the gut flora of people who want to lose weight with it. It can be added to everything - burgers, sweet potato fries, ice-cream...

Can I have my Nobel prize now? :)

I actually saw a brand of ice-cream with probiotics - they sell it our local pharmacy. At $20 per a very small container people are not buying it.

No, really, how plausible is this GAOS (Gut and Obesity Syndrome) theory?

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on April 03, 2013
at 01:52 PM

sugar does it. whether its hfcs or fruit, all the same. that and the sweet taste itself (i.e. artificial sweeteners).

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 06:33 AM

Thank you very much one more time for a very good answer. As for regulating the appetite - I want you to know - binge eating (I developed it when I went on a very strict diet about six years ago) cannot be controlled. When you are in a binge eating mode, it is not only taking over your body, it is taking over your mind as well. Very scary.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 06:30 AM

Thanks for answering.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 06:29 AM

@Thhq - I am too sick right now to do any research. On some days I just hope to survive. Thanks for your positive message though.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on September 17, 2012
at 04:00 AM

Me neither. Ate the same what children around ate if not healthier. But I was fat and low energy kid while they weren't.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:49 AM

thhq-See my response to bill. I didn't downvote either of you and my answer was not an attempt to critique the idea that high fat, high carb junk food influences obesity.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:48 AM

thhq-See my response to bill. I didn't downvote either of you and my answer was not an attempt to critique the idea that high fat, high carb junk food makes you fat.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:40 AM

Bill-I'm not denying weight is about calorie balance, I'm saying gut flora affects our inherent ability to feel satiated when we reach our TDEE. I wasn't trying to attack or be critical of your answer btw, I was using it as a jumping of point, as an example of how the fattening diet you described might cause less weight gain depending on the context of healthy gut colonization.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:31 AM

I'm dubious about a lack of gut flora causing obesity. I would expect that the loss of digestive biota would result in loss of weight and appetite. But good luck, maybe Mayo will fund your research. Interesting theory.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:22 AM

I got my PR for downvotes here for calling high fat/carb junk food the atom bomb of the obesity epidemic. Some people here hate hearing the obvious, but their exceptional cases don't falsify what's happening with most people.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:13 AM

+1. It's a little rough Bill, but I got fat overeating all of the above EASY-TO-DIGEST foods. Paleohackers have oversensitive brains and tummies methinks. The rest of humanity have all the gut flora they need to turn that junk into visceral fat.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:50 AM

You ate more than rice to become obese, take your rice cooker and shove it .....

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:47 AM

But what about the people who don't become obese on such a diet? They (almost) don't exist. You can maintain or even lose weight eating like that as long as your eating less than your TDEE, in fact I have seen it plenty of times. Its that the vast majority of people eat more than their TDEE. Its really quite that simple.

16e617676c5ac710e5235e0b773edc0b

(2640)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:26 AM

I'm surprised to see someone with 7,000+ points trolling so hard. Do you honestly believe what you wrote? Offensive beyond belief, dude. Seriously.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:28 AM

Some of us are legitimately sick, actually. We can lose the weight, but then it comes back with a vengeance, making the game of losing weight dangerous (because it leads to a net increase in weight). If something is wrong, better to fix it than to fight yourself the rest of your life and wreck your health in the process. Certainly, not everyone is sick in such a way, but it does describe a fair number of people who "do the right thing" yet still struggle to lose weight or maintain weight loss.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:25 AM

I call BS too. I ate exactly what my nutritionist said, never strayed and was running 50+ miles per week. I could barely break 200 at 5'9". I was FAT. Very FAT. And it didn't matter what diet/exercise/etc I did, I could not break that weight. And I would cycle, get up to 210, and then eat 1500 calories (while running 50+) just to get back down to 190. When I found the primal blueprint, it took 22 weeks, I dropped 40 lbs, and I've kept it off for 18 weeks without effort (and without being able to workout for the last 8 weeks). I did not fit your profile.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:19 AM

On part I of this question I said "The cause of obesity is surely a complicated question for which there are lot of contributing answers". I believe this is one of those contributing answers.

Fb67dc30cead043d1d13ea503a3044dc

(3280)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:17 AM

Bill, what is up with you??

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:01 AM

Bullshit. I don't know what actually caused my obesity's root but I was eating veggies, rice, fruit, etc...as a vegitarian and went from an average if stocky teen to morbidly obese and I DID NOT FUCKING EAT McDonalds, Big Gulps or Candy. I would however make an entire rice maker of rice for "the week" and end up eating it in 1 day. What an asshole.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:59 PM

Yeah, not really. Over the summer I was having a piece of fruit everyday and lots of veggies. The last few weeks the veggies stuck but fruit started being kinda blah and so I've been eating more starch again but maybe 4x a week the last few weeks?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:50 PM

Oh, I thought they were your staples. Thanks.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:28 PM

I guess I should say I don't eat any of these every day, or even every week. They aren't staples, I just don't avoid them if the mood takes me, and I tend to buy them as needed rather than keeping them around.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:27 PM

Don't really have one. I do eat all sorts of yams, baby potato (especially the purple fleshed ones), rice on sushi, and on a movie night our semi-paleo sneak-into-theatre treat is those Terra or other brands mixed root chips and too heck with the cannola oil.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:15 PM

What is your safe starch of choice? Sweet potatoes?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:02 PM

Sure do. Starch too. Fruit absolutely slows down weight loss but also makes my hair and skin healthier. Nuts I binge from time to time and then go 8 months with out having any. Starch as I want it, usually if my normal, lower-carb is leaving me feeling depressed I'll add starch with supper and, sleeping better, the funk goes away.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 16, 2012
at 09:51 PM

Yay!!! Good for you!!! Do you eat any fruit and nuts, by the way (I am asking because I am interested)? Thanks!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 09:49 PM

Sorta my point. I don't really see a good way to do it. I don't think anything less than wiping stuff out is going to have any long-term impact on anything and I don't see our current understanding and technology allowing us to tackle the bigger, possibly more effect job. That said, Paleo works well so maybe it's the slow steady, "terra-forming" concept that will work better. I'm down almost 200 because of it...

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 16, 2012
at 09:42 PM

I don't think that one fecal transplant will do the job. It will take a whole pile of sh** to repopulate that football field. I think wiping out the whole gut flora is dangerous. Thanks for the answer though.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 16, 2012
at 09:34 PM

Thanks for the video. It is scary...

05de181d71c1df6304a03566fe821d4b

(795)

on September 16, 2012
at 09:21 PM

Ohh And genetically modified foods, seems to be causing a host of diseases http://geneticroulettemovie.com

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4 Answers

5
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 09:38 PM

At 450lbs, a blue-baby, who had Meningitis as an toddler and was consequently given antibiotics at dosages that look like a weekly dosage for an adult every hour via IV I'd say a correlation isn't impossible. I fit the pattern anyway.

I don't think it is as easy a probiotics, as far as I've seen no study to date shows that probiotics do much to change the established biome. I suspect a massive dose of of broad spectrum antibiotics combined with fasting and supplemental s. boulardi might combine to wipe out your guy flora completely enough so that immensely high pro-biotic replacement might work. Even fecal transplantation.

I won't be the first to try this however....

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 16, 2012
at 09:51 PM

Yay!!! Good for you!!! Do you eat any fruit and nuts, by the way (I am asking because I am interested)? Thanks!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 16, 2012
at 09:42 PM

I don't think that one fecal transplant will do the job. It will take a whole pile of sh** to repopulate that football field. I think wiping out the whole gut flora is dangerous. Thanks for the answer though.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:27 PM

Don't really have one. I do eat all sorts of yams, baby potato (especially the purple fleshed ones), rice on sushi, and on a movie night our semi-paleo sneak-into-theatre treat is those Terra or other brands mixed root chips and too heck with the cannola oil.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:59 PM

Yeah, not really. Over the summer I was having a piece of fruit everyday and lots of veggies. The last few weeks the veggies stuck but fruit started being kinda blah and so I've been eating more starch again but maybe 4x a week the last few weeks?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:02 PM

Sure do. Starch too. Fruit absolutely slows down weight loss but also makes my hair and skin healthier. Nuts I binge from time to time and then go 8 months with out having any. Starch as I want it, usually if my normal, lower-carb is leaving me feeling depressed I'll add starch with supper and, sleeping better, the funk goes away.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:28 PM

I guess I should say I don't eat any of these every day, or even every week. They aren't staples, I just don't avoid them if the mood takes me, and I tend to buy them as needed rather than keeping them around.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 09:49 PM

Sorta my point. I don't really see a good way to do it. I don't think anything less than wiping stuff out is going to have any long-term impact on anything and I don't see our current understanding and technology allowing us to tackle the bigger, possibly more effect job. That said, Paleo works well so maybe it's the slow steady, "terra-forming" concept that will work better. I'm down almost 200 because of it...

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:15 PM

What is your safe starch of choice? Sweet potatoes?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:50 PM

Oh, I thought they were your staples. Thanks.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 06:30 AM

Thanks for answering.

2
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:13 AM

Bill said in his answer: "Every fat person got there the same exact way. Waaay too much sugar and fat combined. McDonalds, Big Gulps, Snickers Bars and Grease - together = 'Insidious Fat Gain"

Such a diet has made many quite rotund. Most wouldn't disagree on this. But what about the people who don't become obese on such a diet? I know many who haven't. With such a diet it's hard to eat only your basic calorie needs, but some people do. How? A hardy metabolic rate helps. I also suspect some people have quite the capacity for unconscious regulation of appetite. In the context of this question, perhaps a good micrbiome contributes to the production of short chain fats like buytric acid which may strongly modulate body weight:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/butyric-acid-ancient-controller-of.html

Conversely, what about people with severe gut dysbiosis? Could increased intestinal permeability allow psychoactive substances to pass into our blood stream and disrupt satiety signals? I wouldn't be surprised. Could bacterial toxins contribute to liver damage, raising triglycerides, thereby increasing leptin resistance? It's speculative, but maybe.

I support calories in calories as the determining factor in weight gain/loss, but to say CICO is the whole story is like saying "It was the best of times it was the worst of times" is all there is to A Tale of Two Cities.

I think future research will continue to unravel the complexities of our microbiome and reveal to us how truly important our gut bacteria is in making us sick or healthy.

For anyone interested, Lucas Tafur writes a lot on this particular subject: http://www.lucastafur.com/2012/03/nutritional-immunotherapy-overview.html

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 06:33 AM

Thank you very much one more time for a very good answer. As for regulating the appetite - I want you to know - binge eating (I developed it when I went on a very strict diet about six years ago) cannot be controlled. When you are in a binge eating mode, it is not only taking over your body, it is taking over your mind as well. Very scary.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:49 AM

thhq-See my response to bill. I didn't downvote either of you and my answer was not an attempt to critique the idea that high fat, high carb junk food influences obesity.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:40 AM

Bill-I'm not denying weight is about calorie balance, I'm saying gut flora affects our inherent ability to feel satiated when we reach our TDEE. I wasn't trying to attack or be critical of your answer btw, I was using it as a jumping of point, as an example of how the fattening diet you described might cause less weight gain depending on the context of healthy gut colonization.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:47 AM

But what about the people who don't become obese on such a diet? They (almost) don't exist. You can maintain or even lose weight eating like that as long as your eating less than your TDEE, in fact I have seen it plenty of times. Its that the vast majority of people eat more than their TDEE. Its really quite that simple.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:22 AM

I got my PR for downvotes here for calling high fat/carb junk food the atom bomb of the obesity epidemic. Some people here hate hearing the obvious, but their exceptional cases don't falsify what's happening with most people.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:48 AM

thhq-See my response to bill. I didn't downvote either of you and my answer was not an attempt to critique the idea that high fat, high carb junk food makes you fat.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:19 AM

On part I of this question I said "The cause of obesity is surely a complicated question for which there are lot of contributing answers". I believe this is one of those contributing answers.

2
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on September 16, 2012
at 11:55 PM

HFCS, Big Gulps, Anything in cellophane, video games, Tv, Our mind-body dissociation, wheat, O6 seed oils, reduced dependence on movement, DRUGS, our current medical paradigm, pain, mental, physical, and emotional dysfunction.

-2
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on September 16, 2012
at 11:19 PM

Giving little Fat People even more food and HFCS is what is causing obesity, AND video games.

Every fat person got there the same exact way. Waaay too much sugar and fat combined. McDonalds, Big Gulps, Snickers Bars and Grease - together = 'Insidious Fat Gain'

Typical fat kid diet: Rice Krispies with whole milk, high fat sausuge, bagel, orange juice for breakfast. Pizza or some crappy noodle dish slathered with fat for lunch. Snack - HFCS, Doritos, and or fried chicken fingers with insulin blasting sauce of some kind. Dinner, whatever their fat parents are eating, but guaranteed, its fat+lots of carbs.

THAT is what is creating these humongous 200-300-400-500 lbers.

And "Finish your plate or sit there til its gone, there are starving children is Africa" - Parents who use guilt make me sick.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:50 AM

You ate more than rice to become obese, take your rice cooker and shove it .....

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on September 17, 2012
at 04:00 AM

Me neither. Ate the same what children around ate if not healthier. But I was fat and low energy kid while they weren't.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:28 AM

Some of us are legitimately sick, actually. We can lose the weight, but then it comes back with a vengeance, making the game of losing weight dangerous (because it leads to a net increase in weight). If something is wrong, better to fix it than to fight yourself the rest of your life and wreck your health in the process. Certainly, not everyone is sick in such a way, but it does describe a fair number of people who "do the right thing" yet still struggle to lose weight or maintain weight loss.

16e617676c5ac710e5235e0b773edc0b

(2640)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:26 AM

I'm surprised to see someone with 7,000+ points trolling so hard. Do you honestly believe what you wrote? Offensive beyond belief, dude. Seriously.

Fb67dc30cead043d1d13ea503a3044dc

(3280)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:17 AM

Bill, what is up with you??

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:25 AM

I call BS too. I ate exactly what my nutritionist said, never strayed and was running 50+ miles per week. I could barely break 200 at 5'9". I was FAT. Very FAT. And it didn't matter what diet/exercise/etc I did, I could not break that weight. And I would cycle, get up to 210, and then eat 1500 calories (while running 50+) just to get back down to 190. When I found the primal blueprint, it took 22 weeks, I dropped 40 lbs, and I've kept it off for 18 weeks without effort (and without being able to workout for the last 8 weeks). I did not fit your profile.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:13 AM

+1. It's a little rough Bill, but I got fat overeating all of the above EASY-TO-DIGEST foods. Paleohackers have oversensitive brains and tummies methinks. The rest of humanity have all the gut flora they need to turn that junk into visceral fat.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:01 AM

Bullshit. I don't know what actually caused my obesity's root but I was eating veggies, rice, fruit, etc...as a vegitarian and went from an average if stocky teen to morbidly obese and I DID NOT FUCKING EAT McDonalds, Big Gulps or Candy. I would however make an entire rice maker of rice for "the week" and end up eating it in 1 day. What an asshole.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on April 03, 2013
at 01:52 PM

sugar does it. whether its hfcs or fruit, all the same. that and the sweet taste itself (i.e. artificial sweeteners).

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