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LG and carb-loading/refeeding: anti-Paleo ideology?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 21, 2013 at 3:11 PM

I have been paleo for around 5 months and I believe it to be the only way to live now; I feel more healthy and have a better relationship with food: I feel more Grok! I have made progression into weight lifting as well as having gone from not being able to squat at all, not even get into a squat position, to back and front squatting 32.5kgs in 2 months (training ~2-3 times a week 5x5). I have however, been interested in losing weight and becoming more toned as well as powerful and strong for my goalkeeping, which has led me to ketosis. I struggled for a while but feel I am now more understanding of it. I do have some questions though. Is long term ketosis bad for the body? I feel it's natural for me. I love fat and protein, I love vegetables but I only feel satiated when I have had a substantial amount of fat in my meal so if if there's veggies, they are covered in butter. Even coffee now comes with cream or is bulletproofed. I do feel lacking in energy at times and feel if I had to sprint I wouldn't be able to but I also feel more 'steady'. I don't get hungry, just cold or I slow a little, then I know to eat. I feel this is perhaps a bad scenario as I feel if I were to encounter a fight or flight incident I would have a little less flight than I should; however, I also enjoy keto diet as I don't get preoccupied with hunger or food in general and I love the fact I can eat fat and truely enjoy it. My other slight concern would be my the fact I eat one meal a day, the other 'meal' is my bulletproof coffee (20oz french press) which is highly calorific.

I have increased body weight in the past few months but according to my scales I have reduced body fat and increased muscle mass. Should this worry me if I want to become more toned? I am 26, 5ft 10in, female, ~163 lbs, apparently 20% bf and 46% muscle. I look 'solid/strong' as someone described me recently but I don't look athletic, as in my muscles aren't defined, they are still rather hidden. Will that come? I don't want to just get bigger and bigger, increasing body weight and muscle mass without revealing anything.

Finally and more related to the title, isn't leangains/refeeding/carb-loading, against paleo theory in that they cause larger insulin spikes? Doesn't that cause continual hormone spikes which will lead to stress and fatigue? Shouldn't we try to maintain a 'norm' in the body? This is another reason I like keto, it makes sense to use fat for fuel so I don't understand why you would wish to consume carbs unless you were a professional sprinter.

Then I read this article, which made me wonder more about my own fatigue at times and if it's wise to be keto particularly with weight training and lifting heavy:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/516994-ketosis-strength-training/

What is everyone elses thoughts and experiences?

.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on February 18, 2013
at 03:44 PM

I like the fatty cuts too. And no, I actually do the opposite - I like a big breakfast, smaller lunch, snack dinner. But I am seriously plateaued on my body comp and looking for something to challenge what I'm doing now. I feel great, but I can't get below 28% body fat (female, endomorph).

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on February 18, 2013
at 09:29 AM

Interesting link, seems like something Loren Cordain would write about IFing, not sure how I feel about the emphassis on lean protein; I like my fatty cuts :) Do you follow a programme yourself?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 17, 2013
at 10:44 PM

*Carbohydrates, NOT grains, just to clarify

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on January 22, 2013
at 03:10 PM

Ketogenic diets are the exception not the rule when it comes to hunter-gatherers. The majority of people are not and have not been ketogenic. Starch and carbohydrate are a significant portion of diet, save for a few extreme examples. Evolution occurred where carbohydrate consumption was the highest (Africa, the tropics). My take on it at least.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on January 22, 2013
at 01:42 PM

I understand that paleo is not necessarily ketogenic. I was however wondering about the ideology of leangains and how compatible it is with paleo if it supports high carb/low fat and high fat/low carb cycling. How do you mean humans can adapt to keto diet but we didn't evolve to eat one. This is the point I guess I wish to discuss: we store fat as a source of energy so doesn't this mean it is the preferred source of energy? Why aren't we evolved to be ketogenic?

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4 Answers

3
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on January 22, 2013
at 12:55 PM

Paleo is not necessarily ketogenic. Insulin is not necessarily a bad guy. It's simply a hormone. Transient blood glucose/insulin spikes are normal. The problem is when blood glucose stays elevated longer than necessary and more insulin than is normal is needed to get it back in check. Humans can adapt to a ketogenic diet, but we did not evolving eating one.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on January 22, 2013
at 03:10 PM

Ketogenic diets are the exception not the rule when it comes to hunter-gatherers. The majority of people are not and have not been ketogenic. Starch and carbohydrate are a significant portion of diet, save for a few extreme examples. Evolution occurred where carbohydrate consumption was the highest (Africa, the tropics). My take on it at least.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on January 22, 2013
at 01:42 PM

I understand that paleo is not necessarily ketogenic. I was however wondering about the ideology of leangains and how compatible it is with paleo if it supports high carb/low fat and high fat/low carb cycling. How do you mean humans can adapt to keto diet but we didn't evolve to eat one. This is the point I guess I wish to discuss: we store fat as a source of energy so doesn't this mean it is the preferred source of energy? Why aren't we evolved to be ketogenic?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 17, 2013
at 10:44 PM

*Carbohydrates, NOT grains, just to clarify

2
E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 17, 2013
at 05:28 PM

Like you I much prefer being low carb, for the positive benefits in how I feel. There's certainly no need to avoid ketosis. If you want to improve your capacity for sprinting and such high intensity stuff, then I think you would only need a quite modest increase in carb intake. Rather than diving in with some huge 'refeed' you may as well just try gradually increasing your carbohydrate intake- especially immediately after exercise- and see what happens.

1
B9cfa43798183424786a59d11ac52f76

(145)

on February 17, 2013
at 05:07 PM

Wow. I'm in the same boat as you. I'm 28, female, 5'9, 156 lbs, 19% BF. I have been paleo since July and have been experimenting with different aspects of it since then. I have also gained weight as muscle mass but have lost about 1 % body fat in the process (which really isn't much). I have not tried strict very low carb yet but have instead moved towards the leangains with paleo approach as I am very active still and lifting heavy weights.

So, you and I both would like to drop a couple body fat percentages to get that more lean and defined look (which is probably more like 17%). I think ketosis works really well for some people, but if you have a somewhat active lifestyle and have been doing one thing for a while, why not experiment with something new?

Even Mark Sisson says carb refeeding may be a way to lose that last percent or two of BF because it resets your leptin levels, creating more satiety. He also mentions it can increase energy if you're feeling a little burnt out, which it sounds like you are.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/carb-refeeding-and-weight-loss/#axzz2LB0SV78S

0
32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on February 17, 2013
at 07:22 PM

I was thinking of this same issue, in reference to Nate Miyaki's work on Intermittent Feasting:

http://natemiyaki.com/i-feast/

I'd love to hear from those of you who have used carb refeeding, and how long before you start to see a decrease in body fat.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on February 18, 2013
at 09:29 AM

Interesting link, seems like something Loren Cordain would write about IFing, not sure how I feel about the emphassis on lean protein; I like my fatty cuts :) Do you follow a programme yourself?

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on February 18, 2013
at 03:44 PM

I like the fatty cuts too. And no, I actually do the opposite - I like a big breakfast, smaller lunch, snack dinner. But I am seriously plateaued on my body comp and looking for something to challenge what I'm doing now. I feel great, but I can't get below 28% body fat (female, endomorph).

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