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Incorporating carbohydrates for weight-loss and a general hack question.

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 01, 2011 at 1:37 PM

Hello, y'all are always immensely helpful so I figured I'd ask:

While my ultimate goal is health, I could stand to lose a good 20-30 pounds (depending on how much muscle I have; I also gave my scale a way so I can't be specific ... and I'm not planning on getting another).

I usually do 'well' (i.e. straight up paleo) for a couple of days but then end up eating too many nuts or have an intense craving for dairy (thus, ending any weight-loss that had commenced), meanwhile silencing the carb-cue in my mind. For some reason I get this feeling that I should be eating more carbohydrates, but I wonder if this is just 'cravings' and a need for will power.

Have people incorporated carbs and done well?

Do I need to be in ketosis? (I have trace amounts of ketones, via ketostix.)

A typical day:

If I eat breakfast: 3 eggs, butter, vegetable Lunch: .5 lb ground beef or 1 lamb chop, vegetable Dinner: .5 lb - 1 lb ground beef (depending on if I ate breakfast and/or lunch), vegetable

*walk ~40 min

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:49 PM

True. I should have added that I am liberal with coconut oil and beef fat/lamb fat. When I enter things on fitday from time to time it comes to about 1800 cal or less which seems too much (I'm 5'3".).

D0578c3826123f66a80b034cd3e78816

(565)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:35 PM

If the vegetable is a leafy green then sure. The problem once you cut carbs and starchy vegetables is that if you attempt to replace their volume by fibrous vegetables you will have nowhere near as many calories as you once did. 1 pound of potatoes is way more calorically dense than 1 pound of kale, cabbage, chard, or spinach which is why I wonder if maybe your caloric intake is insufficient.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:28 PM

Ha! 5 pounds would be a hefty lunch.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:27 PM

A lamb chop and vegetable is a snack? o.O

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5 Answers

3
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on April 01, 2011
at 09:20 PM

I try to eat 150g of carbs 5 days a week and 300+g on the two workout days I have. Carbs composed of starch eaten in amounts that serve to replete your glycogen stores are nothing to worry about.

I think the argument against fructose consumed in evolutionarily inappropriate amounts has been crudely applied to carbohydrates in general. The deleterious effects of fructose are numerous and well-documented, but I've never seen the same sort of evidence for starch or glucose leading to metabolic derangement. Fructose leads to no acute insulin increase but does lead to a chronic elevation if ingested in huge quantities. Glucose has an acute insulin increase but no insulin resistance and subsequent chronic elevation of insulin. Unless you're prediabetic or diabetic, glucose is great. I'm paraphrasing, but in WWGF, even Taubes says something to the effect of, "it just may be that obesity is purely the result of sugar intake, which explains why cultures traditionally consuming a lot of starch with a low sugar intake tend to not be fat." Even fructose, if consumed in more or less natural forms, is unable to create a perceptible difference in insulin resistance in an active human.

So, if your CNS, RBCs, organs etc. are using 130+g of glucose per day, then eating an amount that matches that depletion will not result in fat gain directly. In fact, carbs almost never get turned directly into fat, though they do shift the energy substrate of muscle mitochondria to glucose and away from lipids, which can lead to fat gain. This only really happens if they're consumed in amounts that exceed the body's comfortable glycogen saturation threshold. The catch with increasing your carb intake is that you will likely decrease the satiety of your meals. That's the principle advantage of a high fat diet. It's not that fat doesn't get stored as fat, because it most assuredly does, it's that a high fat diet can very easily be a high satiety, low calorie diet.

Adding in starch while maintaining a very high fat diet can very easily result in a gain in fat. You really need to lean out your diet a bit to make it work. You match the decreased satiety with a replacement of some of the fattier things you eat with leaner meats and you'll end up with low calories, optimal glycogen, sufficient protein and sufficient amounts of healthy fats.

I think we all would have been better off if we had simply taken our SADs, pulled out the sweeteners, industrial seed oils and grain, and then upped our grass-fed meat consumption and added back in tubers or white rice. The part where we became fixated on maximal fat intake and the annihilation of all carbohydrates took us off on a weird tangent that is certainly not optimal for everyone.

0
A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

on April 01, 2011
at 08:52 PM

my god, I've read "5Ibs" of ground meat for lunch :D I thought "damn, girl, that's quite some lunch!" :D

I also have cravings for nuts like crazy. I love macadamias too much, I decided to just not get them, too much temptation. I try to include more carbs sometimes, but without too much analysis. Try to do a day or two with more tubers and then a few days with little carbs and see how you feel, if the cravings have anything to do with carb levels.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:28 PM

Ha! 5 pounds would be a hefty lunch.

0
D0578c3826123f66a80b034cd3e78816

(565)

on April 01, 2011
at 08:28 PM

Sounds like you are not eating enough. 1 lamb chop and vegetable. If the vegetable is spinach then that is a snack not a meal. If you're eliminating starches without replacing them you are going to have a problem. You can lose weight while still eating carbs depending on carb amount and your specific physiology. Check the Perfect Health Diet if you're curious about that.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:27 PM

A lamb chop and vegetable is a snack? o.O

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:49 PM

True. I should have added that I am liberal with coconut oil and beef fat/lamb fat. When I enter things on fitday from time to time it comes to about 1800 cal or less which seems too much (I'm 5'3".).

D0578c3826123f66a80b034cd3e78816

(565)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:35 PM

If the vegetable is a leafy green then sure. The problem once you cut carbs and starchy vegetables is that if you attempt to replace their volume by fibrous vegetables you will have nowhere near as many calories as you once did. 1 pound of potatoes is way more calorically dense than 1 pound of kale, cabbage, chard, or spinach which is why I wonder if maybe your caloric intake is insufficient.

0
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on April 01, 2011
at 07:46 PM

Yes, it's just cravings, but the will power doesn't have to last very long. Just get rid of the nuts and dairy for about 4 or 5 days, and your cravings will most likely completely subside.

There definitely are people who do as well, or sometimes better with more carbohydrate, but there are also many who lose best in ketosis. Since you are almost there, I would recommend giving ketosis (minus the dairy and nuts) a fair chance.

If you do decide to up your carbs, I would still steer away from nuts and dairy, and try something more likely to be benign, like potatoes, yams, or rice.

0
Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:08 PM

You might want to take a look at this thread

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