5

votes

Do you Paleo Hackettes agree with GoKaleo?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 03, 2012 at 4:13 PM

Possible Duplicate:
Are rounded bellies in the realm of normal and healthy for women? (warning: pictures of the human body)

I just came across this blog: http://gokaleo.com/

Her most recent post, Eat Like a Caveman, Look Like a Playboy Centerfold, caught my eye. Not having read anything about the author or other material on the blog, I saw the graphic and thought to myself -- Oh no, not another testament to how eating paleo will turn me into this:cavegirl

What I read pleasantly surprised me. What do you PH ladies think? (Men can answer too!)

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on February 03, 2012
at 11:31 PM

Excellent find Evelyn. Thanks for posting.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on February 03, 2012
at 11:29 PM

That YOU for putting it out there. This is an important discussion that's a long time coming. The paleosphere is just as disgustingly fraught with looks-ism and ridiculous physical standards (especially for women) as society in general, sad to say. We need to talk about this more and see if we can change it.

35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on February 03, 2012
at 09:50 PM

Or perhaps diastasis recti after several pregnancies.

35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on February 03, 2012
at 09:48 PM

Agreed. I know a handful of women with low-ish bodyfat levels (strong women who don't look like they had ribs removed, unlike the cartoon lady) and still have sizeable breasts. The difference is that they don't sit all perky up on one's chest to hold up a skimpy bikini... they need real solid support to keep them up.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on February 03, 2012
at 09:48 PM

@Evelyn, trust me, she knows how I feel. If I ever had to apologize for my sexuality, she wouldn't have ever been with me. By the same token, if I were undisciplined (and stupid) enough to actually act on it... then I would be in real trouble. @CharlotteM - If you can be confident in knowing you are beautiful despite societal norms, then you are beautiful. When others see that confidence, it is likely they will also see that beauty.

912ec069b5bd84af1b6ef7545b950908

(428)

on February 03, 2012
at 09:39 PM

My response to this, as a kind-of-strong lady who is also 5' 8" and has some fat on her, is that I absolutely benefit in both my work life and my personal life from the confidence that weight-lifting gives me. I hate cardio (boring and painful), and lifting has long been a source of calm and confidence for me. Being confident, I find, helps me find partners who support that confidence.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 03, 2012
at 09:36 PM

We won't tell your wife ;-)

51602d606442284ee36eb286de9decaa

(80)

on February 03, 2012
at 07:06 PM

Thank you for this! I lost weight (and boobies) before I started paleo. Since I've been eating this way, I've actually noticed that my ladies are returning to their pre-weight-loss size. Even the bf has commented that they are "coming back". The rest of me is still leaning out.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on February 03, 2012
at 07:00 PM

This is an article about the original photo http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2009/sep/05/model-lizzie-miller-photo-reaction

9cd41eb8ec7fcbbfd35c2daf87e2190f

(40)

on February 03, 2012
at 06:32 PM

I remember when that image was making the facebook rounds a while back. If I recall correctly, she's a plus-size model who'd recently had a baby, and she was sharing that un-photoshopped photo to encourage women to feel good in their own skins. PS: did you check out my video response to the skinny-fat blog post? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1BbSXoZAE

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on February 03, 2012
at 06:25 PM

Just because she does not have visible abs...

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on February 03, 2012
at 06:25 PM

Yes the blog post. For one thing why use that photo as an image of someone who is skinny fat? Even most models have minor imperfections like that requiring photoshop. Also the apparent causes of skinny fatness are pretty strange.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 03, 2012
at 06:17 PM

I think he means the blog post.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 03, 2012
at 05:34 PM

And quite a few guys are still going to like those unnaturally (really natural unless there is silicon involved) massive breasts too.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on February 03, 2012
at 05:33 PM

Excellent point. It's almost as if some folks have forgotten that hormones are the primary determinants of body fat distribution.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on February 03, 2012
at 05:33 PM

Or she's had 6 kids.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on February 03, 2012
at 05:32 PM

Matthew, what is crazy, the blog post or that picture of a very lovely, healthy, beautiful woman.

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on February 03, 2012
at 05:15 PM

Good point. I think that the male physique being objectified has been often ignored, but there are societal pressures for us too, like to be short-haired and clean-shaven in some countries. Or to be tall. I'm short but stocky, myself, and I don't mind a bit.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 03, 2012
at 05:10 PM

+1000............

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 03, 2012
at 05:03 PM

Men are objectified too. Sometimes we are seen as walking ATM's to be abused, not seen at all or just not tall enough. If your just a nice guy who is generally friendly, that can easily be mistaken for "nice guy" is really passive aggressive and mean!

78fcdeee6ac4ee7d071bbac56b9e359f

(1025)

on February 03, 2012
at 04:42 PM

I think this might be an American thing? We have a really hard time grasping that not everything is black and white/right and wrong. "If fit and muscular is good, how can anything else not be wrong?!". I feel like expanding some paradigms up in this bee-ya.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on February 03, 2012
at 04:39 PM

That is a whole heap of crazy.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 03, 2012
at 04:29 PM

or she is pregnant!

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10 Answers

8
78fcdeee6ac4ee7d071bbac56b9e359f

(1025)

on February 03, 2012
at 04:30 PM

I totally agree with what she has to say, but I do think some (young) women do naturally look like the cartoon picture, even when eating SAD. After a woman has been pregnant and given birth once or a few times and breastfed those babies, she may start to look more like the woman in the photograph (to me this is more "womanly", she has been through more woman experiences or however you'd like to say it). All of this is OK!
Are our bodies functioning well for us? Do we appreciate what we can do with them? Do we feel good? These are my criteria.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on February 03, 2012
at 05:10 PM

+1000............

5
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 03, 2012
at 04:32 PM

On the flip side of that blog post, is this one: http://www.functionalfitmag.com/blog/2012/01/31/top-10-ways-skinny-fat/

I was like...seriously? There are plenty of women who do those things and look "good." And plenty of women who don't and have tummies.

And this is supposedly a bad thing to be? 

I honestly don't see what is so bad looking about that woman. Maybe she's had a baby? Paleo isn't some magic solution for not ever having a poochy stomach ever.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on February 03, 2012
at 05:32 PM

Matthew, what is crazy, the blog post or that picture of a very lovely, healthy, beautiful woman.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on February 03, 2012
at 07:00 PM

This is an article about the original photo http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2009/sep/05/model-lizzie-miller-photo-reaction

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 03, 2012
at 06:17 PM

I think he means the blog post.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on February 03, 2012
at 06:25 PM

Yes the blog post. For one thing why use that photo as an image of someone who is skinny fat? Even most models have minor imperfections like that requiring photoshop. Also the apparent causes of skinny fatness are pretty strange.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on February 03, 2012
at 04:39 PM

That is a whole heap of crazy.

78fcdeee6ac4ee7d071bbac56b9e359f

(1025)

on February 03, 2012
at 04:42 PM

I think this might be an American thing? We have a really hard time grasping that not everything is black and white/right and wrong. "If fit and muscular is good, how can anything else not be wrong?!". I feel like expanding some paradigms up in this bee-ya.

9cd41eb8ec7fcbbfd35c2daf87e2190f

(40)

on February 03, 2012
at 06:32 PM

I remember when that image was making the facebook rounds a while back. If I recall correctly, she's a plus-size model who'd recently had a baby, and she was sharing that un-photoshopped photo to encourage women to feel good in their own skins. PS: did you check out my video response to the skinny-fat blog post? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1BbSXoZAE

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on February 03, 2012
at 06:25 PM

Just because she does not have visible abs...

4
9cd41eb8ec7fcbbfd35c2daf87e2190f

on February 03, 2012
at 06:15 PM

Wow, great discussion guys! Thanks for all the feedback and keep it coming! :)

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on February 03, 2012
at 11:29 PM

That YOU for putting it out there. This is an important discussion that's a long time coming. The paleosphere is just as disgustingly fraught with looks-ism and ridiculous physical standards (especially for women) as society in general, sad to say. We need to talk about this more and see if we can change it.

4
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on February 03, 2012
at 05:28 PM

My apologies for butting into a estrogen-dominated thread, but I wanted to give a little from the man perspective. If it is unwelcome, please feel free to remove it.

For me confidence plays a big role. I've known and coached strongwomen competitors that could have passed for linebackers that were totally in love with their bodies and who's form followed function.

By the same token, I've know plenty of thin women that carried themselves well and weren't neurotic about diet and lifestyle, they just accepted it.

And for me, that is more attractive than any physical attribute.

Shunning all that, allow me to objectify for one second (as much as I hate to), for me personally the feminine ideal is probably a bit prehistoric, I do find voluptuous/curvy to be very pleasing to my man-brain. The woman that Melissa posted is very feminine and pretty. But, as I said before, the attitude that accompanies it trumps any physical attraction.

And I'm a married man anyway, so most of this discussion is null and void :-) .

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on February 03, 2012
at 09:48 PM

@Evelyn, trust me, she knows how I feel. If I ever had to apologize for my sexuality, she wouldn't have ever been with me. By the same token, if I were undisciplined (and stupid) enough to actually act on it... then I would be in real trouble. @CharlotteM - If you can be confident in knowing you are beautiful despite societal norms, then you are beautiful. When others see that confidence, it is likely they will also see that beauty.

912ec069b5bd84af1b6ef7545b950908

(428)

on February 03, 2012
at 09:39 PM

My response to this, as a kind-of-strong lady who is also 5' 8" and has some fat on her, is that I absolutely benefit in both my work life and my personal life from the confidence that weight-lifting gives me. I hate cardio (boring and painful), and lifting has long been a source of calm and confidence for me. Being confident, I find, helps me find partners who support that confidence.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 03, 2012
at 09:36 PM

We won't tell your wife ;-)

4
D8f58eba263277ec6119293137b85b02

on February 03, 2012
at 05:22 PM

I liked it, save for this message: "Because any woman with body fat low enough to have that level of muscle definition would have long since lost her breasts."

While this may be true (assuming by "breasts" she means rotundness and size, not mammary glands) for some, or even the majority of women, it's not a universal truth and it really bugs me when people make outright claims about an astronomically broad subject, such as that which the word "woman" encompasses, as though they are irrefutable and there are no exceptions.

Some girls are going to have large breasts no matter what they do with their bodies, regardless of how "unnaturally massive" some people think they are.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on February 03, 2012
at 05:33 PM

Excellent point. It's almost as if some folks have forgotten that hormones are the primary determinants of body fat distribution.

35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on February 03, 2012
at 09:48 PM

Agreed. I know a handful of women with low-ish bodyfat levels (strong women who don't look like they had ribs removed, unlike the cartoon lady) and still have sizeable breasts. The difference is that they don't sit all perky up on one's chest to hold up a skimpy bikini... they need real solid support to keep them up.

51602d606442284ee36eb286de9decaa

(80)

on February 03, 2012
at 07:06 PM

Thank you for this! I lost weight (and boobies) before I started paleo. Since I've been eating this way, I've actually noticed that my ladies are returning to their pre-weight-loss size. Even the bf has commented that they are "coming back". The rest of me is still leaning out.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 03, 2012
at 05:34 PM

And quite a few guys are still going to like those unnaturally (really natural unless there is silicon involved) massive breasts too.

4
778b36f4f699f202de135ef176fe9ab7

on February 03, 2012
at 04:27 PM

I liked it as well. I think it shines some light on the unattainable body image women have for themselves, even Paleo women. I know that I have lost a significant amount of fat around my midsection, but I'm still not happy. I have love handles, a little tummy pouch I want to get rid of, and my boobs are saggy, but I have two beautiful children which I nurtured with my body.

I know I started Paleo for the wrong reasons, but I've stuck with it for the right ones. I think I've come a long ways in learning to be happy with the body God gave me and not chasing the illusive dream of a body like Elizabeth Hurley's.

Sadly, no Paleo is going to help my boobies... that's what Victoria's Secret is for ;)

P.S. Great post... I have never heard of this blog. Thanks for sharing it!

4
C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 03, 2012
at 04:24 PM

I really doubt you will get that kind of stomach bloat on a paleo diet. She probably has some sort of infection or has ton of gas. I also think its a hopeless battle to try to redefine masculine attraction.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 03, 2012
at 04:29 PM

or she is pregnant!

35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on February 03, 2012
at 09:50 PM

Or perhaps diastasis recti after several pregnancies.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on February 03, 2012
at 05:33 PM

Or she's had 6 kids.

3
Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on February 03, 2012
at 04:25 PM

Sure, I'll throw in my two cents.

Paleo, for men or for women, should be about optimising. I agree with GoKaleo that there is a lot of objectifying of women, even in the paleosphere. Or at least there can be. We're still moderns, even if paleos like me don't always like that fact.

So the question becomes, I think, what is optimal for a person, man or woman? There seems to be a reasonable amount of science that says some body fat is good, and a bit more body fat on women is natural. Personally, I like a curvy woman, but I'd rather she be strong and healthy than curvy just to please my tastes. And as for men, I'd love to be much more lean, even build muscle. But I'm not there yet. My goal though, has little to do with appearance, beyond boosting my own self-esteem. I really want to be able to do the kinds of physical activities I love, and some activities really that I never thought I'd be in shape enough to do.

Paleo, in the end, has to be about process, not product. You do what works for you. If a woman wants to look like that, then she should do so knowingly.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 03, 2012
at 05:03 PM

Men are objectified too. Sometimes we are seen as walking ATM's to be abused, not seen at all or just not tall enough. If your just a nice guy who is generally friendly, that can easily be mistaken for "nice guy" is really passive aggressive and mean!

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on February 03, 2012
at 05:15 PM

Good point. I think that the male physique being objectified has been often ignored, but there are societal pressures for us too, like to be short-haired and clean-shaven in some countries. Or to be tall. I'm short but stocky, myself, and I don't mind a bit.

2
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 03, 2012
at 04:53 PM

Every human body has it best and somewhat less great points.

Looking at your own body is like picking teams--I'll take my ears, my hands and feet, yeah my rib cage is pretty cool, my bold chin (looking coolly past the nose and big-boned hips and knees and short neck) etc., etc.

Depending on just how fat you were, I think it's more amazing that our skin is able to shrink as much as it does than disappointing that it can't shrink ALL the way. When I started this lifestyle last April, I joked to friends that I wanted to go from hippo to rhino to bloodhound. Yes, I have some sagging now as I've lost something between 40 and 50 pounds but, frankly, I'm amazed at how little sagging there is so far. It's now obvious I won't make bloodhound but I won't have tight skin either. I think "relaxed" is a good adjective. :-))

I can enjoy looking at beautiful men and women but if you read at all you know beauty doesn't guarantee character or behavior. Eating paleo doesn't guarantee any of the three.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 03, 2012
at 10:54 PM

I think women just need to start posting pictures of men that are just as unrealistic. Like super tall AND muscular with ridiculously huge packages or whatever.

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