1

votes

Cutting opinions???

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created September 14, 2012 at 10:33 PM

The old me did atkins for a long time and lost a lot of weight AND muscle. The new Paleo me bulked up and now want to cut the right way. I actually don't have much of a variety because I love the few basic foods I eat. Basically grass fed beef by the pound from my local trader joes. Organic Brocolli&Spinach frozen Mixed berries,Wallnuts and yes Bakers Chocolate squares here and there. I have to cut the fruit and limit walnuts but, will this be healthy nutrient wise? I supp with a multi, fish oil

Overview train 2 days heavy weights,Low impact cardio 2-3 times a week. Diet will be beef,Brocolli&spinach and my 2 supps. I ask because the new me actually wants to do it right/healthier than before. I'm new to here so i would love some opionions from some people/Tweeks they would do.

Thanks in advance

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on September 15, 2012
at 07:35 PM

Walking...moving frequently at a slow pace....however you wanna look at it. Call it not sitting on your ass too much if you like. Point is low level activity for long periods of time are a programmed into our genes.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 08:34 AM

JayJay, I don't misunderstand. Walking burns fat, but is much less efficient than intensive weight training. I don't know what "systemic hormone signaling" means, sounds like something Men's Health would write. When I recomp, I don't go for volume, I go for intensity. I do only 2 working sets, 3-4 exercise per session, 3 times a week. I train fasted, LG style. But in any case, if walking works, go for it - just saying that it's most likely not optimal, and possibly detrimental.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 08:30 AM

Wow, that's REALLY impressive, good stuff! It's very possible that your metabolism has suffered, and you need a break. Lyle McDonald is a big proponent of diet breaks: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html I'm re-starting a recomp right now, also to get below 10%, and will be incorporating the diet breaks, as my hormonal balance suffered from recomping the last time around.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 15, 2012
at 05:33 AM

Height, weight, how much do you want to cut and how quickly do you need to cut it? Percent BF?

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 15, 2012
at 02:12 AM

Wisper I think your right I was even calculating a -20/0 cut and still went over. I think the issue was when I started that regimen I just finished a keto cut for a year and a half plus so I think my metbolism was shot and leptin crashed. I was 302lbs went down to 172lbs. Now I've been for a few months off keto gained some muscle&FAT at around 192lbs and just wanna get ripped don't care about the weight number just my bf% I want to get close to 10. It's frustrating lol

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 15, 2012
at 02:06 AM

Great points! I think I'm gonna try throwing that in the mix! Mon heavy compounds,tues off,we'd Hiit,thur off,Friday heavy compounds,sat off,Sunday long lit walk/hike with the dog. This might just be perfect for me and my schedule.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:55 AM

BTW...I do IF also and train fasted. I have just noticed that reduced frequencies ala HIT create just as much if not better gains for me and with less repetitive stress types of injury.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:50 AM

I think you misunderstand the idea of a whole program. Walking has plenty of benefit both for metabolic conditioning (walking will be largely fat burning) and in a bio and neuromecanical sense improving systemic hormone signaling. It will NOT impede recovery, especially when performing a HIT program with focus on recovery. You have a focus on volume training it seems. I'm talking about a totally different paradigm.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:20 AM

What's the benefit from slow walking that you can't get easier, faster and with better results from weight training? I'd ditch all cardio when cutting as it doesn't bring much, if any benefit, and just hinders recovery.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:18 AM

Clarifying: training 3 days a week, IF 7 days a week.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:16 AM

I started LG around 20% bf, went down to 13.5% on it. I use minimal RPT (2 working sets, 3 exercises) on a +20/-20% recomp, 3 days a week. I tried a deeper cut but it also cut into my performance, so I went back to recomp. I do HEAVY carb loading PWO. Based on what you just wrote, I suspect your issue is that your BMR/TDEE calculations are too high. Many people overestimate their activity level. I use 1.22, sedentary, home office work.

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 14, 2012
at 11:44 PM

It's just something I can stick with for a long time. Not exciting by any means lol. Also when I tried Hiit I did loose a good amount of weight just a ton of muscle and strength. That's why I was gonna try lit as a hope of trying to hold on to as much muscle while loosing fat. Also not in a rush so babying along hoping that help too.

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 14, 2012
at 11:41 PM

I also noticed a lot of LG guys are lower in bf percentage as I'm around 17% and they are carb loading after each weight session. I swear my body does not like that method I tried and kept it clean as possible :(

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 14, 2012
at 11:38 PM

I was worried I would be recovered by doing 3-4 weight days being on a cut/cal restriction. I use the lg training method of big movements RPT training style and I seriously noticed a huge difference but even when I put my cals close to maintence BF goes up that why I was thinking of dropping the fruit. I'm not a fan of starches and my diet is very bland but i love those foods and can stick to them. As far as IF I can't do it everyday I get hungry at work and its easier to manage a eat stop eat style 24hr on a off day yet another reason worried about recovering and dropping another weight day

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4 Answers

1
79b370170293d5000059d18a1e120625

(16)

on September 14, 2012
at 11:12 PM

How bout you just train with more intensity. Low impact is a waste of time. The lack of variety in That diet would drive me nuts. Surely you eat some other things?

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 14, 2012
at 11:44 PM

It's just something I can stick with for a long time. Not exciting by any means lol. Also when I tried Hiit I did loose a good amount of weight just a ton of muscle and strength. That's why I was gonna try lit as a hope of trying to hold on to as much muscle while loosing fat. Also not in a rush so babying along hoping that help too.

0
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on September 15, 2012
at 02:05 AM

First. Where are you at right now? height, weight, and approximate body fat percentage? It is hard to give a good cutting diet without knowing these things. However, I'll give you my thoughts on what you've provided.

Your diet. Beef, broccoli, and spinach. Why? Are you trying to go on a crash diet, because this is what it looks like. Eat a varied diet, regardless if you are cutting or minting, and perhaps especially when cutting because you're already low on calories, so nutrition is hard. You're already deficient in vitamin E for sure, and probably zinc, vitamin D, selenium, and magnesium. Where are your healthy fats? It's pretty nearly impossible to get shredded without including some healthy fats in your diet (i.e. mixed nuts).

Here is what I like to do with great success, every time (keep in mind I'm 155lbs and 5'9")

  1. 1 day of zero carbs vegetables. 3 days of starchy carbs at less than 0.3* your lean body mass. For me, during these three days I keep carbs to the AM or post workout. If it is the AM that I am eating the carbs, I have been doing 1-2 slices of RYE BREAD only because I tolerate it well and it tastes really good topped with cottage cheese and canned or smoked salon :) If I am eating my carbs at night post workout, I'll just do a half a sweet potato or 1-2 baby potatoes (just keeping it between 25-45g starchy carbs). But I like the rye bread, so I usually just eat that in the morning. Obviously this won't work for most people because it's not strict paleo, but I digest it well and it feels good in my body, so I eat it. I don't have any autoimmune issues either, so it's fine.

  2. No fruit besides nightshades in salad. No brainer b/c of the fructose.

  3. protein as always- between 1-2g/lb lean body mass. I keep my protein year round to chicken breast, pork tenderloin, shellfish, tuna, salmon, tilapia, and sardines. I also eat a high protein, low sodium cottage cheese by Friendship brand (16g protein and only 4g carbs per 113g serving). I eat beef infrequently.

  4. healthy fats- this I thought was obvious, but you've neglected it. These fats help you burn fat, and they provide a ton of nutrient density, which is imperative when cutting so you get the most bang for your buck. Eat these daily.

  5. carb refeeds depending on progress. I do them about every 4-7 days and bump calories up by 10-20%. do 1-2 days of zero carbs (good to do these on days you aren't lifting), followed by 4-7 days of carb grams between at less than or equal to 0.3 * lean body mass. Refeed between the 4-7 day period, and then repeat. Do not count the carbs in non-starchy vegetables, above ground vegetables.

For maintenance, just do the same thing except include some additional fruit and/or increase the reefed frequency.

I also think meal frequency is more important on a cut. This is because you want protein high, and protein can't be stored, so you don't want your body catablozing muscle too much. I eat 4x per day, and add in BCAAs prior to training. I also do 10g glutamine per day ass well.

your training For training, it really depends on how drastically you're cutting calories, but in general, you'll want to be decreasing the volume and making every rep count of Generally this means decreasing volume by 1/2 to 1/3 of normal, so the exact number of sets and days you should be working out varies depending on what your baseline is.

I think the biggest difference between cutting and maintenance, at least for me, is definitely limited cardio. I LOVE doing HIIT sprints, but when I'm cutting I just don't find them as productive. I typically go for a 1-2 hour brisk walk in the mornings. By brisk I don't mean speed-walker pace, lol, I just mean fast walking, but I am a fast walker naturally. I take 5g BCAA and 5-10g glutamine upon waking before this too. Then eat breakfast and drink coffee.

l-carnitine before your workouts will assist in the mobilization of body fat for energy. It also has other health benefits, and I take this along with tyrosine and BCAAs pre workout.

That's what I do to stay lean. To get bigger and simultaneously stay lean, you have a few options. The easiest is just to do the exact same, but include a carb/protein recovery beverage post workout, with an emphasis on carbs. Another option is to cut out the 1-2 zero carb days and also increase your reefed frequency to once every 4 days and not once every 4-7 days. Also, bump the calories up on these to 10-20% above maintenance (in the cut, you were just bumping calories up 10-20%, which ends up being less than or equal to maintenance, depending on severity or your calorie restriction). Also, include some fruit.

0
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:11 AM

I'd go with 1-2 high intensity resistance days a week (doing full body compounds) and 1-2 high intensity interval training sprint sessions along with plenty of low and slow movement (walking) with low carb paleo.

Great thing about intensity work is 1) no need to up the frequency of it 2) no need for a carb refeed 3) same or better results with less time expended.

I do one HIT resistance and one HIIT sprint day a week.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:50 AM

I think you misunderstand the idea of a whole program. Walking has plenty of benefit both for metabolic conditioning (walking will be largely fat burning) and in a bio and neuromecanical sense improving systemic hormone signaling. It will NOT impede recovery, especially when performing a HIT program with focus on recovery. You have a focus on volume training it seems. I'm talking about a totally different paradigm.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 08:34 AM

JayJay, I don't misunderstand. Walking burns fat, but is much less efficient than intensive weight training. I don't know what "systemic hormone signaling" means, sounds like something Men's Health would write. When I recomp, I don't go for volume, I go for intensity. I do only 2 working sets, 3-4 exercise per session, 3 times a week. I train fasted, LG style. But in any case, if walking works, go for it - just saying that it's most likely not optimal, and possibly detrimental.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:20 AM

What's the benefit from slow walking that you can't get easier, faster and with better results from weight training? I'd ditch all cardio when cutting as it doesn't bring much, if any benefit, and just hinders recovery.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:55 AM

BTW...I do IF also and train fasted. I have just noticed that reduced frequencies ala HIT create just as much if not better gains for me and with less repetitive stress types of injury.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on September 15, 2012
at 07:35 PM

Walking...moving frequently at a slow pace....however you wanna look at it. Call it not sitting on your ass too much if you like. Point is low level activity for long periods of time are a programmed into our genes.

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 15, 2012
at 02:06 AM

Great points! I think I'm gonna try throwing that in the mix! Mon heavy compounds,tues off,we'd Hiit,thur off,Friday heavy compounds,sat off,Sunday long lit walk/hike with the dog. This might just be perfect for me and my schedule.

0
9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 14, 2012
at 11:23 PM

Ditch the cardio, up heavy weights to 3-4 days a week, increase protein intake, don't worry about fruit as long as it's after workout. Leangains worked wonders for me.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:18 AM

Clarifying: training 3 days a week, IF 7 days a week.

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 14, 2012
at 11:41 PM

I also noticed a lot of LG guys are lower in bf percentage as I'm around 17% and they are carb loading after each weight session. I swear my body does not like that method I tried and kept it clean as possible :(

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 08:30 AM

Wow, that's REALLY impressive, good stuff! It's very possible that your metabolism has suffered, and you need a break. Lyle McDonald is a big proponent of diet breaks: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html I'm re-starting a recomp right now, also to get below 10%, and will be incorporating the diet breaks, as my hormonal balance suffered from recomping the last time around.

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 15, 2012
at 02:12 AM

Wisper I think your right I was even calculating a -20/0 cut and still went over. I think the issue was when I started that regimen I just finished a keto cut for a year and a half plus so I think my metbolism was shot and leptin crashed. I was 302lbs went down to 172lbs. Now I've been for a few months off keto gained some muscle&FAT at around 192lbs and just wanna get ripped don't care about the weight number just my bf% I want to get close to 10. It's frustrating lol

34eaa5751d7b8054befd46d401e599d4

on September 14, 2012
at 11:38 PM

I was worried I would be recovered by doing 3-4 weight days being on a cut/cal restriction. I use the lg training method of big movements RPT training style and I seriously noticed a huge difference but even when I put my cals close to maintence BF goes up that why I was thinking of dropping the fruit. I'm not a fan of starches and my diet is very bland but i love those foods and can stick to them. As far as IF I can't do it everyday I get hungry at work and its easier to manage a eat stop eat style 24hr on a off day yet another reason worried about recovering and dropping another weight day

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 01:16 AM

I started LG around 20% bf, went down to 13.5% on it. I use minimal RPT (2 working sets, 3 exercises) on a +20/-20% recomp, 3 days a week. I tried a deeper cut but it also cut into my performance, so I went back to recomp. I do HEAVY carb loading PWO. Based on what you just wrote, I suspect your issue is that your BMR/TDEE calculations are too high. Many people overestimate their activity level. I use 1.22, sedentary, home office work.

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