14

votes

Can we bury this cliche, once and for all?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created November 24, 2011 at 6:30 AM

Once again, on some recent PH thread, I read the oft-repeated phrase, "well, no one ever said that paleo is intended for weight loss." No? Let's take a look.

Devany

Wolf

Sisson

Cordain

Every one of these paleo gurus makes a promise of weightloss, right on the front cover of their books. So, as a community, can we please stop telling those people who are struggling that "No one ever said paleo was for weightloss." It's just not true.

(edit) My question, then: should we modify what we say to those who are struggling, and stop repeating something that seems not to be true, or should we take Sisson, Wolf, Devany, et al to task for making promises that aren't supported by science?

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on November 29, 2011
at 02:39 PM

Thanks to you both!

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 28, 2011
at 09:23 PM

+1 - Yup. So, so true. :)

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 28, 2011
at 09:22 PM

+1 - Nice one, Nance, from your personal perspective.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 28, 2011
at 09:21 PM

+1 and I am happy for you and to hear your progress. I agree with Karen's comment above, as well.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 28, 2011
at 09:19 PM

+1 for you! Excellent. I share some of the same feelings as a formerly ~240lb woman who is 132lbs. However, Along with obesity, all in a period spanning just over about 1.5 -2 years, I became very obese and developed multiple, serious health issues at the same time. So, you are so right. As an older person, when this all came on about 14 years ago, I got the whole shebang.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on November 28, 2011
at 08:27 PM

The Taubes quote makes complete sense. You can replace "a restricted carbohydrate diet" to read "a paleo diet" if you like. You just have to come at this from a different point to understand it. You have to start with the understanding your lifestyle dictates your physiology. So you are not "improving" or "correcting" any of those biological markers. You are simply providing the body with a lifestyle that is congruent with how it functions. It is not the high cholestorol, high BP, or xyz that is pathological, they are simply adaptive states to a pathological lifestyle.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on November 28, 2011
at 07:09 PM

Your experience would confirm Taubes's assertion that eating this way only brings your body in line with how it was meant to be. Best of luck to you!

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 28, 2011
at 05:57 PM

Well, I listed four, not three. I could have put Cordain in there too and made it five. What "movement" there is exists *because* of these writers. They are the face of the movement.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 28, 2011
at 05:07 PM

And, why do you preseume that these three "gurus" speak for the paleo movement?

724ba4f39f7bbea7f74b45c0a79615f2

(1968)

on November 28, 2011
at 04:27 PM

I think that people tend to rewrite their own histories. Once they've lost weight they think, I was unhappy and overweight, and then [blackout] and now I'm so healthy/skinny/happy! And in the grand scheme of your life the blackout phase is so short, it seems to have just flown by. And, once you do start losing some weight, even though it's a lot of effort, in retrospect it feels effortless because all you remember are the days you stood on the scale and it was lower, not the many other times that you wanted to pull your hair out. Esp. because when you were overweight it always felt like that.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 28, 2011
at 04:07 PM

Great comment. Even Sisson refers again and again to "effortless" weightloss. Really?

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 25, 2011
at 11:45 PM

Terrence, your use of inflammatory phrases combined with your ALL CAPS fetish makes me think you are a "True Believer" in the gospel of Taubes. Many people now aren't. Put down the Kool-Aid glass and relax.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 25, 2011
at 10:15 AM

Terrance, understanding that sentence has nothing to do with having an open mind. I am not disputing Taubes' theory. I said that from the start. I am not versed well enough in biochemistry to be able argue either way; I read as much as I can (in English, I'll have you know) and try to learn as much as I can. English is my first language, and although my random use of CAPS is lackluster compared to yours, I am entitled to my opinion that the quote above is nonsensical. If you disagree, that's fine, but saying it doesn't make it true.

7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on November 25, 2011
at 08:58 AM

'It's not a crash program' Very true! I wish the media wouldn't push low carb/paleo as such. So many people try it and don't lose 6* pounds a week so they give up again. *add in your own ridiculous number. I've heard so many!!

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on November 25, 2011
at 08:52 AM

Mem, what I wrote is true above, your link shows the wrong picture. I did NOT come to Paleo for the weight loss, I came for the health issues I had: http://eugenia.queru.com/2011/09/13/listen-to-your-gut/ The question about weight loss I posed on Paleohacks was after the fact, since indeed, I did not lose weight like others have on this diet. Weight loss for me would have been the cherry on the cake, the "free gift", but the ONLY reason I started Paleo was my IBS-D, a health problem that was ruining my life in more ways than one.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 25, 2011
at 05:43 AM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/68432/no-weight-loss-why#axzz1egVorQIZ

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 25, 2011
at 04:52 AM

Just had a look on the front & back covers of the 'Perfect Health Diet' by the Jaminet's. No mention of weight loss on this one. Tho they do have a 7 page section at the back of the book (pg. 255) entitled 'Healthy Weight Loss'. & they do tout it as being a style of Paleo diet. http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=5097 http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?page_id=781

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 25, 2011
at 03:42 AM

Very much agreed. Nicely stated.

Medium avatar

(8239)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:27 AM

"I have no problem whatsoever with these books being titled and marketed in the way that they are." Amen. Especially when compared with the slow suicide (or tendency toward) that is modern nutritional principle + practice.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on November 25, 2011
at 02:35 AM

Terrence you're gonna stoke out if you don't get use to the idea that not everyone has great love and affection for Gary like you and I do. It's o.k. They are entitled to they misguided opinions (that's called a joke) There are plenty here who agree with you that the Taubes quote is a beautiful thing and people here who things anything Taubes writes is just bs. Get used to it and stop screaming insults at people who think differently. I understand the desire to strangle people but we need to at least pretend to be civil or we'll get nowhere and fast.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on November 25, 2011
at 02:26 AM

Agree with FED completely. And to get a book about diet published without the promise of weight loss or the second coming it nearly impossible. I think they mostly did what they had to do to get published and quite frankly I think that's just fine. We needed books published to get the good news out there and that's exactly what happened.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 25, 2011
at 01:26 AM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/68432/no-weight-loss-why#axzz1efxUSE2A

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 10:41 PM

AND opinions can be COMPLETELY UNINFORMED - like Brad's are. Brad has added nothing meaningful to Paleohacks in this post - NOTHING other than UNINFORMED, MISINFORMED FLAPDOODLE. You, jcraig have done NOTHING but DETRACT from this post - and without using CAPITAL LETTERS.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 10:36 PM

Well, perhaps English is NOT your first language, Peter. Taubes' statement is NOT double-speak; it is CRYSTAL CLEAR, to anyone who can read ands understand English, and who has an open mind, unlike Brad and you it seems.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 24, 2011
at 10:03 PM

Terrance - I dont know either way if Taubes is correct or not, but the quoted paragraph above is total double-speak. I totally agree with Brad on that.

Fb67dc30cead043d1d13ea503a3044dc

(3280)

on November 24, 2011
at 08:53 PM

Here, here (hear, hear?), Nance!

C731e054bfe56eb10c9d6d01236183a4

(25)

on November 24, 2011
at 08:06 PM

I don't think anything productive is being produced by either of you two. Opinions can be controversial and the beauty of this site (as far as I have gathered) is everyone is entitled to one. Being snarky or using the caps-lock key detract from what may be a productive conversation.

Medium avatar

(19469)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:38 PM

Atkins initially intended for his low-carb diet to be promoted as a health improving plan. It wasn't until it was marketed for "weight loss" that people started buying it. If these guys (Wolf, Cordain, and Sisson) want to sell their diet/lifestyle books they are going to push the "easy" weight-loss angle and support it with testimonials, shirtless photos of ripped abs, etc. This is not reality though. It is justifiable in the sense that it helps to spread the overall message, but the reality is that eating paleo (in any form) may make you gain/lose/maintain weight.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:12 PM

Have you even read Taubes' books and website, Brad - you make it seem that you have NOT. But, I am sure that your CLOSED "mind" can not take in new, different information, so don't waste your time finding out Taubes, REALLY thinks - you CLEARLY Have NOT shown that you understand what he says. PLEASE OPEN YOUR MIND AND READ TAUBES' BOOKS and web site - you MAY actually find out what he says - if you OPEN YOUR MIND.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:08 PM

Twaddle, Brad, absolute, TWADDLE - other than displaying your MASSIVE ignorance of "paleo", by any name, you have done NOTHING, expect play with words in a meaningless way.

7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:07 PM

I think Taubes was addressing the problem of those who cannot lose the last few pounds. He was saying that this type of eating will bring your body to where it needs to be, not necessarily where you want it to be. For example I can get to 133 lbs but, if I 'take my eye off the ball' my body goes straight back to 137 but will stay there.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on November 24, 2011
at 06:04 PM

Brad, for the sake of my education, can you refer me/us to some thoughtful criticisms of Taubes? I'm new to lower carb/paleo eating and want to learn.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 24, 2011
at 05:49 PM

This website, and your presence on it, happened because those books were written. You are part of a "movement" like it or not.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 24, 2011
at 05:48 PM

Well, you have to open your mind to the possibility that Taubes' "carb hypothesis" is flawed and quickly losing ground, much as the lipid hypothesis has done.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 04:59 PM

It is NONSENSE to say that "Paleo" wouldn't exist if those books had not been written". The word "paleo" has become popular, recently; but the diet, or better, the way of life, has been around for YEARS, under other names, and in some causes with no name.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 04:56 PM

The quote from Taubes makes PERFECT sense. You MAY have to open your mind and think about it; but it very informative, clear, and TRUE.

F44b15b2fd1ad134200793d6b474fc4c

(938)

on November 24, 2011
at 04:33 PM

Thanks for raising this, Brad, since I'm the person who started the thread you're referring to! I guess you rephrased your question :-)

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 24, 2011
at 02:22 PM

I understand, but "Paleo" wouldn't exist if those books had not been written, so you have been influenced by them whether you have bought them or not.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 24, 2011
at 02:21 PM

See, that's the problem to me. The quote from Taubes sounds good on its face, but when you try to pin it down for meaning, it's really just double-speak.

7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on November 24, 2011
at 01:30 PM

plus one for the pun!!

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on November 24, 2011
at 08:49 AM

Brad, your point is taken. But please rephrase your question such that it meets PaleoHacks standards. Otherwise, it risks deletion or closure.

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16 Answers

13
7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on November 24, 2011
at 08:38 AM

I know what you're saying, Brad. I think most people come to paleo for weightloss and stay for health.

Of course, weightloss sells books!

It's difficult to persuade anyone to change their diet if they don't need to lose weight but, just because someone isn't overweight doesn't mean their diet is perfect.

I think, in the 'real' world, paleo will always be associated with weight loss even though, to quote Gary Taubes' blog:

A restricted-carbohydrate diet doesn???t make you lose weight; it corrects your weight. A restricted-carbohydrate diet doesn???t make you lose water weight; it corrects your water weight. A restricted-carbohydrate diet doesn???t improve serum lipids; it corrects serum lipids. A restricted-carbohydrate diet doesn???t improve health; it corrects unhealthiness.

All of which apply to a paleo diet.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on November 24, 2011
at 06:04 PM

Brad, for the sake of my education, can you refer me/us to some thoughtful criticisms of Taubes? I'm new to lower carb/paleo eating and want to learn.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 24, 2011
at 05:48 PM

Well, you have to open your mind to the possibility that Taubes' "carb hypothesis" is flawed and quickly losing ground, much as the lipid hypothesis has done.

7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:07 PM

I think Taubes was addressing the problem of those who cannot lose the last few pounds. He was saying that this type of eating will bring your body to where it needs to be, not necessarily where you want it to be. For example I can get to 133 lbs but, if I 'take my eye off the ball' my body goes straight back to 137 but will stay there.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 10:36 PM

Well, perhaps English is NOT your first language, Peter. Taubes' statement is NOT double-speak; it is CRYSTAL CLEAR, to anyone who can read ands understand English, and who has an open mind, unlike Brad and you it seems.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 24, 2011
at 10:03 PM

Terrance - I dont know either way if Taubes is correct or not, but the quoted paragraph above is total double-speak. I totally agree with Brad on that.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on November 25, 2011
at 02:35 AM

Terrence you're gonna stoke out if you don't get use to the idea that not everyone has great love and affection for Gary like you and I do. It's o.k. They are entitled to they misguided opinions (that's called a joke) There are plenty here who agree with you that the Taubes quote is a beautiful thing and people here who things anything Taubes writes is just bs. Get used to it and stop screaming insults at people who think differently. I understand the desire to strangle people but we need to at least pretend to be civil or we'll get nowhere and fast.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 24, 2011
at 02:21 PM

See, that's the problem to me. The quote from Taubes sounds good on its face, but when you try to pin it down for meaning, it's really just double-speak.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 04:56 PM

The quote from Taubes makes PERFECT sense. You MAY have to open your mind and think about it; but it very informative, clear, and TRUE.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:12 PM

Have you even read Taubes' books and website, Brad - you make it seem that you have NOT. But, I am sure that your CLOSED "mind" can not take in new, different information, so don't waste your time finding out Taubes, REALLY thinks - you CLEARLY Have NOT shown that you understand what he says. PLEASE OPEN YOUR MIND AND READ TAUBES' BOOKS and web site - you MAY actually find out what he says - if you OPEN YOUR MIND.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 25, 2011
at 11:45 PM

Terrence, your use of inflammatory phrases combined with your ALL CAPS fetish makes me think you are a "True Believer" in the gospel of Taubes. Many people now aren't. Put down the Kool-Aid glass and relax.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 25, 2011
at 10:15 AM

Terrance, understanding that sentence has nothing to do with having an open mind. I am not disputing Taubes' theory. I said that from the start. I am not versed well enough in biochemistry to be able argue either way; I read as much as I can (in English, I'll have you know) and try to learn as much as I can. English is my first language, and although my random use of CAPS is lackluster compared to yours, I am entitled to my opinion that the quote above is nonsensical. If you disagree, that's fine, but saying it doesn't make it true.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on November 28, 2011
at 08:27 PM

The Taubes quote makes complete sense. You can replace "a restricted carbohydrate diet" to read "a paleo diet" if you like. You just have to come at this from a different point to understand it. You have to start with the understanding your lifestyle dictates your physiology. So you are not "improving" or "correcting" any of those biological markers. You are simply providing the body with a lifestyle that is congruent with how it functions. It is not the high cholestorol, high BP, or xyz that is pathological, they are simply adaptive states to a pathological lifestyle.

7
Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 25, 2011
at 02:53 AM

Paleo as a health promoting, health supportive, health changing and weightloss way of life has worked rather famously for many people and will work for many more. Take a gander at this thread:

http://paleohacks.com/questions/7058/share-your-paleo-before-and-after#axzz1efxUSE2A

Then go over to Mark's Daily Apple and take a look at all the many, many obese and significantly overweight folks who have lost HUGE amounts of weight and also radically changed their body compositions, as well as impacted significant health disorder states.

Is ancestral eating magic? No. Is poor,unsound, magical thinking advice without regard for many, many individual variations such as health conditions, previous significant weight loss, medications, etc sometimes given out on this site? Yes. Would it be helpful for most people to buy and carefully read one of the books you have cited and FOLLOW the diet and lifetstyle suggestions as outlined? Yes, it would. And many here have and have benefitted, as measured by the thread above and thousands of responses on this site.

IF any "diet" is truly a healthy diet, it can indeed help overweight people lose weight. As of the year 2000, the amount of carbohydrates consumed by the average person per day was: 490grams. This is up from 389 grams in 1970. This increase is largely driven by the increase in the use of grain products and sugar in frankenfoods. Highly processed products all over grocery stores proclaim their healthfulness and healthy ingredients, when they are infact anything but! The average person has about zip knowledge concerning industrialized foods and what we call frankenfoods in the ancestral world. The average number of food items in supermarkets in 1970 was 10,425. The average number as of 2000 is 46,852. Most Americans are lost in a sea of frankenfoods.

So, who is apt to benefit the MOST and see the most dramatic changes and most dramatic weightloss IF they read a good "paleo" book and follow the plan? Those who are acting like typical Americans - eating 30% and more of their meals in fast food places and consuming what superstores and TVs are hawking as healthy.

On Mark Sisson's plan, if you are eating at the "top" of the carb curve you'll be eating about 150 carbs/day. That's a big step down from 490. The effect that that reduction will have metabolically in physiological response to food eaten is HUGE for many if not most significantly overweight/obese people. And let's not forget, you'll be eating non-processed healthy food.

Now, will all the weight just magically fall off for every significantly overweight person? No. But the majority, imho, who follow one of the plans you cited, will lose a very signifcant amount of weight, barring other individual factors/barriers, if they follow the plan and don't succumb to poor advice/magical thinking and persevere.

It is true that some will need more individualized assessment and support, such as is offered by Rob Wolf's team and numerous others. Older women are often cited as such a group. This is true with many health issues, not just weight loss. And the fact that everyone is not the same and intervention needs to be carefully individualized for some, does not invalidate the effectivness of the dietary and healthy lifestyle advice given in any of the books you cited.

I have no problem whatsoever with these books being titled and marketed in the way that they are.

What needs more emphasis in the ancestral world? Keeping the weight off and ongoing, realistic supports for maintenance success. One such intervention is obviously that which Atkins coined so many years ago...in the 1970's with the first edition of his first book: "This is not a diet. It is a way of life." As the rightfully famous Sherpamelissa once wrote (crude paraphrasing, but gets the point across!) There are no ringing bells and dancing unicorns when you get to the finish-line in this weight loss business...The journey continues.

Well, even with "paleo" there is no singing Grok and the Grokettes when you reach goal...just you and hopefully lots of tools and a whole retooled and much healthier lifestyle...to be maintained. And any of these books can help you get there. Given individual circumstances might some need additional help and advice? Certainly. We're living in the real world, right?

Medium avatar

(8239)

on November 25, 2011
at 03:27 AM

"I have no problem whatsoever with these books being titled and marketed in the way that they are." Amen. Especially when compared with the slow suicide (or tendency toward) that is modern nutritional principle + practice.

7
B3e7d1ab5aeb329fe24cca1de1a0b09c

(5242)

on November 24, 2011
at 12:04 PM

Without the weight loss angle it would be unlikely that any of these books would get published, and if even if they did they wouldn't have the sales that they have achieved.

It's simple economics, the weight loss industry is massive.... pardon the pun.

Besides, paleo can be great for weight loss.

7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on November 24, 2011
at 01:30 PM

plus one for the pun!!

6
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 24, 2011
at 11:58 AM

The Paleo Diet is a way of eating for life. It is great for weight loss. However even if you reach your weight loss goal and/or do not lose weight it still has a great benefit to our health.

6
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:54 AM

I didn't come to Paleo for weight loss, but for health. I haven't bought any of these books either.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 24, 2011
at 02:22 PM

I understand, but "Paleo" wouldn't exist if those books had not been written, so you have been influenced by them whether you have bought them or not.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 04:59 PM

It is NONSENSE to say that "Paleo" wouldn't exist if those books had not been written". The word "paleo" has become popular, recently; but the diet, or better, the way of life, has been around for YEARS, under other names, and in some causes with no name.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on November 25, 2011
at 08:52 AM

Mem, what I wrote is true above, your link shows the wrong picture. I did NOT come to Paleo for the weight loss, I came for the health issues I had: http://eugenia.queru.com/2011/09/13/listen-to-your-gut/ The question about weight loss I posed on Paleohacks was after the fact, since indeed, I did not lose weight like others have on this diet. Weight loss for me would have been the cherry on the cake, the "free gift", but the ONLY reason I started Paleo was my IBS-D, a health problem that was ruining my life in more ways than one.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 25, 2011
at 01:26 AM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/68432/no-weight-loss-why#axzz1efxUSE2A

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:08 PM

Twaddle, Brad, absolute, TWADDLE - other than displaying your MASSIVE ignorance of "paleo", by any name, you have done NOTHING, expect play with words in a meaningless way.

C731e054bfe56eb10c9d6d01236183a4

(25)

on November 24, 2011
at 08:06 PM

I don't think anything productive is being produced by either of you two. Opinions can be controversial and the beauty of this site (as far as I have gathered) is everyone is entitled to one. Being snarky or using the caps-lock key detract from what may be a productive conversation.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 24, 2011
at 05:49 PM

This website, and your presence on it, happened because those books were written. You are part of a "movement" like it or not.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on November 24, 2011
at 10:41 PM

AND opinions can be COMPLETELY UNINFORMED - like Brad's are. Brad has added nothing meaningful to Paleohacks in this post - NOTHING other than UNINFORMED, MISINFORMED FLAPDOODLE. You, jcraig have done NOTHING but DETRACT from this post - and without using CAPITAL LETTERS.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 25, 2011
at 05:43 AM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/68432/no-weight-loss-why#axzz1egVorQIZ

5
13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 24, 2011
at 01:51 PM

Amen! I get tired of seeing that, too. I absolutely agree that the paleo diet is about far more than weight loss and there are benefits that go beyond weight loss. But, the idea that it doesn't promote weight loss and should not be recognized for that benefit is total nonsense.

4
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 24, 2011
at 02:54 PM

You can lose weight on any diet..... Just look at the twinkie guy.

4
7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on November 24, 2011
at 02:27 PM

I don't think I ever repeat the phrase "no one ever said", but I have said that many people are going to be sorely disappointed if they think all they are going to have to do is eat paleo and expect to get to their goal weight.

I realize that the guys selling stuff have to go at the weight loss angle because that is where all the money is, but I do think people on PH are doing a service to tell people that paleo is not a magic bullet for weight loss, especially getting down to your goal weight.

And while ???no one ever said??? is obviously incorrect, I think it is also a good idea to establish that ???not everyone says??? paleo is a magic bullet for weight loss.

3
Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 25, 2011
at 01:52 AM

Losing weight is a discipline. Paleo's carb restriction and satiation via fat inclusion are useful tools that make it easier to lose weight. But as with any diet book the tools have to be used for several months to show impressive results. It's not a crash program.

7e36094a0f7a2fbad24290225405220b

(2064)

on November 25, 2011
at 08:58 AM

'It's not a crash program' Very true! I wish the media wouldn't push low carb/paleo as such. So many people try it and don't lose 6* pounds a week so they give up again. *add in your own ridiculous number. I've heard so many!!

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 28, 2011
at 09:23 PM

+1 - Yup. So, so true. :)

2
F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:39 PM

Funny, I spend a lot of time trying to assume my therapist that this is NOT a weight-loss diet - that it's possible to be Paleo and not lose weight. I'm doing this for digestive issues, but I have a history of eating disorders and being underweight which explains her concern. I'm happy to say that I've stayed bang-on exactly the same weight in the last 7 weeks. I mean, I'd like to gain some muscle weight but I know that's not gonna happen from diet alone.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 28, 2011
at 09:21 PM

+1 and I am happy for you and to hear your progress. I agree with Karen's comment above, as well.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on November 28, 2011
at 07:09 PM

Your experience would confirm Taubes's assertion that eating this way only brings your body in line with how it was meant to be. Best of luck to you!

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on November 29, 2011
at 02:39 PM

Thanks to you both!

2
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 24, 2011
at 07:09 PM

I will take your question seriously and give my personal opinion: No, I should not change what I say because there are some writers who use weight loss to market their books.

It's clear from the questions on this web site that not everyone loses as much weight as they'd like. It's also clear that many, including me, do lose weight easily (without hunger or cravings.)

I'm not sure if I personally ever said, "No one ever said..." but, either way, I believe it's not the most important benefit I've received from my major change in lifestyle. It's health, far and away. If someone did, they probably meant "no one on PH" anyhow.

Waking up each morning rested and alert, feeling so high-energy that I'm borderline restless, feeling more cheerful day-to-day than I can every remember, having normal BG/BP--those are the reasons to change. If you also lose weight, great.

Fb67dc30cead043d1d13ea503a3044dc

(3280)

on November 24, 2011
at 08:53 PM

Here, here (hear, hear?), Nance!

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 28, 2011
at 09:22 PM

+1 - Nice one, Nance, from your personal perspective.

1
C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

on November 28, 2011
at 07:50 PM

As a still slightly overweight woman, I definitely came for weight loss and stayed for health. I consider myself lucky to have been fat: it forced me to think about what health really is, and forced me to consider my own overall well-being before being diagnosed with something scary. Many skinny sick people in this world don't get that benefit because our culture equates thinness with health.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 28, 2011
at 09:19 PM

+1 for you! Excellent. I share some of the same feelings as a formerly ~240lb woman who is 132lbs. However, Along with obesity, all in a period spanning just over about 1.5 -2 years, I became very obese and developed multiple, serious health issues at the same time. So, you are so right. As an older person, when this all came on about 14 years ago, I got the whole shebang.

1
724ba4f39f7bbea7f74b45c0a79615f2

on November 28, 2011
at 03:10 PM

I absolutely hear what you're saying: we appear to be telling people that they should do X to lose weight, and that they're overweight because they're not doing X, and then when they do X and aren't losing weight, we tell them to stop being so concerned about their weight, isn't it great that they don't have, I don't know, allergies anymore, and then sometimes we sort of act like they're petty or something for being disappointed that they aren't losing weight.

So, I hear the frustration and I do get it, it often seems like a bait-and-switch.

I think the confusion often comes from the "no one ever said" issue. It's not true that "no one every said Paleo was a weight-loss solution," we say it all the time.

But it is true that "no one ever said that eating Paleo meant you could eat as much of every type of 'paleo' food as you want and change literally nothing else about your life and suddenly you'll look like Mark Sisson." That fact has been addressed by pretty much every author cited, as well as about a gazillion posts on this site.

What is unfortunately true is that many people do appear to imply that it'll happen overnight (all the language about fat "melting" off, etc.). So, maybe that's the cliche that needs to be buried. If you are morbidly obese, maybe you will lose 10 lbs a week just by cutting out grains. If you're only like 20 lbs overweight, there's literally nothing healthy you can do in any universe that will cause you to drop 10 lbs a week.

724ba4f39f7bbea7f74b45c0a79615f2

(1968)

on November 28, 2011
at 04:27 PM

I think that people tend to rewrite their own histories. Once they've lost weight they think, I was unhappy and overweight, and then [blackout] and now I'm so healthy/skinny/happy! And in the grand scheme of your life the blackout phase is so short, it seems to have just flown by. And, once you do start losing some weight, even though it's a lot of effort, in retrospect it feels effortless because all you remember are the days you stood on the scale and it was lower, not the many other times that you wanted to pull your hair out. Esp. because when you were overweight it always felt like that.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on November 28, 2011
at 04:07 PM

Great comment. Even Sisson refers again and again to "effortless" weightloss. Really?

1
Medium avatar

on November 24, 2011
at 04:12 PM

I have not done a specific search of the "No ever said..." construction. It's not something I hear frequently, maybe not ever. That it's very probably not true (that it's a fallacy) is revealed less by what is claimed than by its structure: "No one ever..."

Here's what I've encountered frequently in ancestral diet circles: Paleo is not per se a diet for weight loss or gain.

It's clear Wolf et al have advanced weight loss as a major benefit, though their marketing falls well short of anything approaching promise or guarantee. The phrase "Lose Weight" on book covers is amply elaborated by Wolf, Sisson, Cordain et al, as something like weight loss potential ... in a context where what's eaten is not separate from how much eaten, activity levels, and assorted epigenetic factors.

(Though this has nothing to do with the specific question at hand, still, the main cliche I wish to bury, after a brutal beating, is "same page," as in "Are we all on...". I have other cliches worthy of homicide but I'll restrain myself.)

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 25, 2011
at 03:42 AM

Very much agreed. Nicely stated.

0
F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on November 28, 2011
at 07:18 PM

To me, there are two different issues here:

  1. Marketing — Taubes himself didn't want the tagline "And what to do about it" added to his book title Why We Get Fat. But if you're going to sell a book about health, even if weight loss is peripheral, you have to mention it. Sometimes authors don't have absolute control over this. Money, money, money, money. MONEY! But don't blame the authors, blame the publishers who are freaked out by the demise of the publishing industry.

  2. The definition of excess weight — After all the reading and research I've done, I don't see excess weight as a diagnosis, I see it as a symptom. So to come at any diet with the intent to lose weight is already starting off on the wrong foot. The goal should be to get healthy, plain and simple. And when you do, (in most cases, excepting mysterious other issues) your body will align with its optimal form. I know folks who aren't having this easy of a time with it, and quite frankly, that sucks. But in general, I think Paleo works in this way (aligning health and weight) for the majority of folks.

0
244e1f82efb3fd15d2da39397488fb24

(549)

on November 25, 2011
at 04:48 PM

Perhaps weight loss is a way to advertise the paleo diet and thus make some bucks, but the paleo diet is also intended to be very healing. I for one am on the diet because I have a symptom-loaded chronic pain disorder called fibromyalgia. Yeah, lots of fun. But this diet is very healing, and I have almost completely recovered from it. I weight 110lbs, so I didn't start this diet for weight loss. Seeing that it is very healing, though, it stands to reason that anyone who is overweight will find balance through this diet, as being overweight is unhealthy (like how you need so many extra feet of veins for every pound you are overweight, etc). So although it is advertised as a weight loss diet, I hardly see it as one. I see it as a diet that our healthy ancestors (who never seemed to have any health problems), ate.

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