9

votes

Anyone have tips for making weight loss on "safe starch" paleo work? (Update)

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 22, 2011 at 2:59 AM

I wondering what those of you who do a more perfect health diet style of paleo, as in safe starches. I tried it for 2 weeks and gained 6 pounds!!! I went from losing weight steadily on VLC to gaining. However, I felt a lot better. I had been doing high fat VLC for 7 months but my joints felt stiff, I was constipated, my mouth felt acidic, and I didn't alway feel satisfied even with increased fat. Keep in mind I'm breastfeeding so this might be why. However, I cannot ignore how quickly I gained weight. For those who have found success losing weight eating slightly higher carb, what did you do? I enjoyed VLC because I didn't have to watch my calories and just ate to satiety. Do you feel you have to watch portions more with higher carbs or do you feel satisfied earlier? While I DO feel more full after having a meal with some starch, I also feel compelled much earlier (like within the next 2 hours) to snack again, which is not good. I suppose I just might have a rotten metabolism but I feel so much better overall not doing VLC. Has anyone had success doing 2-4 weeks ON keto and then a week off then back on, etc? I guess I'll do some self experimentation with that.

For those interested, my VLC included lots of coconut fat, grassfed butter, mostly grassfed beef, wild canned sardines, eggs, free range chicken, and some cafo beef then a variety of dark leafy greens, squash, occasional berries, etc. My two weeks of safe staches was similar to the above but add in some sweet potato, skin-less white potato, and soaked/soured buckwheat. I don't use any bad oils, avoid nuts, and completely abstain from refined sugar.

Update: I had kept on with the added starches for a little while longer and found out I gained another 5 pounds, so I switched back to VLC but this time with a once a week safe starch meal (usually some potatoes on Saturday) and it seems to have both taken care of the dry mouth/constipation and I've lost 6 pounds I had gained and hopefully will continue to do so. This works because I'm not getting the in between snackiness from everyday carbs, but I'm getting some glucose. I really hope I can fix my metabolism in the next year or so, so I don't have to be so restrictive. There's a satisfaction from a meal that includes some Yuca or taters. Oh well!

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on September 23, 2012
at 07:23 PM

When eaten properly, as a meal, with sufficient fat and acid (lemon juice, vinegar etc) the starchy carbs, in reasonable quantities, are rarely a problem for most people. Consistently I've found that even the pregnant women who have gestational diabetes do perfectly well with controlled amounts of starch included in meals containing protein, fat, non-starchy veggies.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on October 05, 2011
at 03:15 AM

Yeah. I think daily starches is a bunch of bullcrap for people trying to lose weight. If you want to lose fast, carbs are whack. Especially for women in the throes of big hormonal changes like me (breastfeeding mom.)

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on October 05, 2011
at 01:43 AM

My wife tried it as an N1 aboutmsix months ago and put on 18 lbs in 6 weeks. It took her three months to lose her weight on the leptin rx.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on September 20, 2011
at 09:03 PM

Exactly........

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on September 20, 2011
at 09:01 PM

Are you still keeping fat high when you add in back starch?

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on September 20, 2011
at 06:19 PM

I'm doing this only it's more of a 4HB once a week refeed day with some safe starch at one meal like potato or yuca. Thanks for the good advice.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on August 22, 2011
at 08:35 PM

Yeah I drink plenty of bone broth too. At least a cup a day and I'm definitely getting enough protein. He night nurses but that's pretty natural, I thought the natural hormones from nursing bring down cortisol and such. I usually get enough sleep, anyhow. I take a nap with the baby once a day too.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on August 22, 2011
at 03:05 PM

What's your protein intake? Your potassium and plant intake? Sounds to me like you may be getting too much protein in the form of muscle meat which can be inflammatory and not enough plant matter, not enough glycine and not enough potassium. Bone broth? AHH! Another thing: sleep deprivation (interrupted sleep) is highly inflammatory. Is your little one still night nursing?

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on August 22, 2011
at 03:02 PM

For most people, I find that's not the case in the context ofMmm, not appropriate nutrition - ie sufficient fat, controlled starch intake rather than excessive. Even the moms I work with that have gestational diabetes do fine on **starches** as long as sufficient fat and protein are present in the meal. And by "fine" I mean post prandial blood glucose no higher than 110 when taken q 15 min for 90 minutes following a meal.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 22, 2011
at 11:32 AM

I'll add hyperdigestibility. One of the big problems with carbs on a diet is that they become blood glucose rapidly. This is fine if you're active and metabolize them, but if you're not they get stored.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on August 22, 2011
at 03:20 AM

Oh and I forgot to mention. Yes, I do eat organ meats and shellfish at least once or twice a week, take cod liver oil, D3c magnesium, a b complex, vitamin C, and k-2 mk-4.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on August 22, 2011
at 03:16 AM

Yeah, I've lost almost 50 pounds (well... Closer to 40 Now that I gained again) but still have 50 to lose. I don't know if that changes anything for you. If I was only 20 pounds overweight I'd consider it as a tradeoff for the other issues as well.

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11 Answers

best answer

7
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on August 22, 2011
at 03:15 AM

I have had the same experience. I think it's hard to pull off a full week with high starch when trying to lose weight. I would suggest a once a week carb up meal or maybe a day. Alternatively but less desirable I think would be a weekend high starch every two weeks. I think a full week back at those carb levels will be hard to overcome. There are some who do better with weight loss with a weekly or so carb refeed. It's definitely worth playing around with to see how your body responds.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on September 20, 2011
at 06:19 PM

I'm doing this only it's more of a 4HB once a week refeed day with some safe starch at one meal like potato or yuca. Thanks for the good advice.

12
9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

on August 22, 2011
at 09:58 PM

Hi BeingVenus,

In addition to the post cited by wmertens, you might wish to look at this one: water weight when adding starch to a very low carb diet.

I think in the early stages of the diet, the two keys are (1) feeling better, which you say you do, and (2) not being hungry. As long as it is making you feel good and you are well nourished enough that you are not hungry, you will be able to lose weight later without much difficulty.

I do believe the first step is always to make your body well nourished. It can take months to repair longstanding nutrient deficiencies, so weight loss may not be rapid at first and you may even gain a bit of weight by adding muscle or bone mineral density or water, but as long as the diet is sufficiently nourishing to prevent hunger then weight loss will come.

Best, Paul

10
Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

on August 22, 2011
at 03:40 AM

you will gain an initial chunk simply b/c of the higher carbs. just like you'll loose it in a week or two when you go off it. it's just water weight.

I think variability is the overlooked, incredibly important key:

variability in the animal products we eat - not just muscle meat but organ meats...and of the organ meants, not just liver but sweetbreads, brain, kidney, stock made from connective tissue/ligaments/cartilage/skin, fat

variability in carbohydrates - sometimes higher, sometimes lower, sometimes none.

variability in cal intake - ie intermittent fasting. which to me is definitely not a daily thing (b/c then it's not intermittent) but rather 0-3x per week randomly.

I do fast 1-3x per week but skip some weeks occasionally. My "typical" carb intake is around 50-100, but for a week or so I'll do 150. I just keep switching it up to maintain metabolic flexibility.

Feeling hungry soon would, in an evolutionary environment, be quite beneficial - it'd motivate us to take action to secure more food. I don't think being hungry a bad thing, just a difficult thing in an enivronment full of hyperpalatable, hyperavailable food.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on August 22, 2011
at 03:02 PM

For most people, I find that's not the case in the context ofMmm, not appropriate nutrition - ie sufficient fat, controlled starch intake rather than excessive. Even the moms I work with that have gestational diabetes do fine on **starches** as long as sufficient fat and protein are present in the meal. And by "fine" I mean post prandial blood glucose no higher than 110 when taken q 15 min for 90 minutes following a meal.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 22, 2011
at 11:32 AM

I'll add hyperdigestibility. One of the big problems with carbs on a diet is that they become blood glucose rapidly. This is fine if you're active and metabolize them, but if you're not they get stored.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on September 23, 2012
at 07:23 PM

When eaten properly, as a meal, with sufficient fat and acid (lemon juice, vinegar etc) the starchy carbs, in reasonable quantities, are rarely a problem for most people. Consistently I've found that even the pregnant women who have gestational diabetes do perfectly well with controlled amounts of starch included in meals containing protein, fat, non-starchy veggies.

5
07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

on August 22, 2011
at 07:02 AM

I've been leaning out with starches. The magic bullet was the fat - don't eat gobs of it. The fat in your meat and a little to cook with is plenty to maintain health. You don't need to eat lots of extra fat for energy when you are trying to get your body to use what it already has stored. Eat a small, high protein, low-ish fat, no carb breakfast like ham and eggs and eat your fill of meat and potatoes or rice with your favorite extras like veg or fruits at lunch and dinner. This is working like a charm for me.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on September 20, 2011
at 09:03 PM

Exactly........

3
91219405abedbfd400ce00dea242a00f

(1044)

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

I don't think that it has to be an all-or-nothing approach. If I were to eat starchy foods everyday, I think that I would gain weight as well. I would limit the starch to a few times a week after workouts (if fat loss/muscle gain is the goal). Otherwise, the safe starches are safe in that they should not cause any health problems when consumed regularly. A small weight gain is not a health problem, per se.

However, as with everything else, it all depends on the individual and that individual's state. If you had constipation, joint pain, etc that disappeared when you started eating starches, I would just continue eating them (perhaps less of them). I'd rather gain a few pounds than suffer those types of health problems, but that's a personal decision as well.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on August 22, 2011
at 03:16 AM

Yeah, I've lost almost 50 pounds (well... Closer to 40 Now that I gained again) but still have 50 to lose. I don't know if that changes anything for you. If I was only 20 pounds overweight I'd consider it as a tradeoff for the other issues as well.

3
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on August 22, 2011
at 06:49 AM

I would say the six pounds is water maybe? You will likely need to eat less starches per day to make it work.

2
C0cf19329f850011e66d1ccfa7d10896

(268)

on October 05, 2011
at 12:22 AM

Rosedale's Answer to Jimmy Moore and counterpoint to those advocating 'safe starches';

i.e. So-called 'safe starches', diabetes, and blood glucose;

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=201270719942245

1
6da513ec59c25531127912318fbf27d5

on August 22, 2011
at 05:31 PM

I have never gone particularly low carb with my paleo and have managed to take off 18 pounds in 2 1/2 months. I would suggest challenging different starches rather than adding them all in at once.

For me, I can eat sweet potatoes ever single day and lose weight. If I add in white/red potatoes my weight loss STOPS. I don't have any experience with buckwheat. THe only way I found out about potatoes was by adding them in for a week and seeing what happened, then taking them back out and seeing what happened. It's like a science experiement!

1
C491ff8ce20d5c17f8f7ff94392a9570

(1617)

on August 22, 2011
at 05:20 PM

Diana Schwarzbein discusses some of the drawbacks of long term low carbing in her books. She advocates adding starch back in for health but she warns that it is almost always accompanied by a small but short term weight gain. I forget the reasons why exactly. Anyway, my point was just that the weight blip is to be expected, especially since you were VLC for so long. I'm slightly skinnier on LC than I am with starch in my diet but I feel a million times better and that's much more important to me!

1
A64ed062eb5e2c3407122fcf16c5de6b

on August 22, 2011
at 10:03 AM

As other posters have said, the extra pounds are most likely water, but that doesn't mean that you won't continue to lose fat.

Are you following the diet edition? Basically, you should be eating enough carbs and protein, and limit fat to your caloric needs.

PHD Diet Edition: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=2145

Note, I didn't lose weight going PHD, but I am staying stable on it.

1
0e4e5882872d6a7c472ea51aec457e66

(1994)

on August 22, 2011
at 05:16 AM

For your joints you could add gelatin (powdered or cooked yourself) on a daily basis - it works wonders.

For consitpation up your magnesium intake.

I can't eat starches b/c potatoes and sweet potatoes make my stomack hurt and rice gives me cramps...

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