0

votes

Do You Think You Can Gain Weight More Easily From Refined Foods After Keto Adapted?

Answered on April 30, 2014
Created April 28, 2014 at 7:07 PM

Any idea if there is a change in the body's ability to metabolize processed foods and converting them to fat after keto-adaption?

I'm wondering about weight gain with regard to refined sugar and flour after becoming keto-adapted. Do you think it may happen more easily? I am definitely keto-adapted, seems like I have to eat a lot of sugar or even go for a heavy grain to kick myself out of keto, but by the end of the day the stix read pink again so I am assuming I am very "adapted." But I'm wondering about when I DO eat the garbage food--which I hope won't be often but I'm sometimes a compulsive eater and Easter was overly tempting ;-)

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 05:51 PM

Cool... Yes, generally i think so... it's good that we can disagree /agree without abuse i think (*thinks of previous paleohacks threads* ;)

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 05:48 PM

talking about a high carb, high fat 'binge', not a refeed... In this situation they more likely will synergistically contribtue to weight being gained if it is a sustained/habitual practice... (water in relation to the carbs and fat...).

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 05:48 PM

agree, i mentioned this in my original comment to your post! ;) A presupposition of my answer was that there were carbs and fats simultaneously being eaten at above maintenance levels, so that the raised insulin would increase uptake of the fats, even while the carbs go to glycogen stores... it could take a little while though if the person wasn't active before eating the carbs... this is beneficiail arguably... I think OP is

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 29, 2014
at 05:25 PM

I figured it would make more sense if I posted articles than simply disagreed with your statement that ketosis worsens insulin sensitivity, which I interpretted to mean adversly affects. Agree to agree.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 05:20 PM

I didn't say the effects were adverse/pathological, although i grant that might be inferred from saying 'worsen'. I claimed physiological IR is induced by eating a low carb diet, even while said diet might be a factor in insulin sensiity becoming imrpoved...

When you wrote in the comment that seems to have vanished something like 'it's important to note that this is wrong...' were you disagreeing with this?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 29, 2014
at 05:04 PM

Very LCKDs have not been found to have an adverse effect on glucose metabolism or insulin resistance.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 29, 2014
at 05:00 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_ketogenic_diet

Since the glycogen stores in the liver and muscles are depleted, these carbohydrates go straight to refilling them, instead of being added to the body's fat stores. For this reason, the amount of calories consumed during a refeed can be far above an individual's usual dietary intake. While a typical CKD consists of 50g or less carbs per day, the typical refeed consists of 450-600g of carbs.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:58 PM

i'm not sure what you're trying to say there with those studies, or disagree about... can you explain?

i was getting at the fact that ketotic diets induce physiological insulin resistance, and that even as this occurs glycogen stores can be filled with ingested carbs, eg muscle glycogen after weights or sprints. Not that this situation is problematic or that low carb diets can't be a step towards ppl eventually becoming more insulin sensitive...

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:44 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15047685 -- Overweight woman following a VLC diet of less than 10% carbs (30-50g) for a month demonstrated improved insulin sensitivity, which I would argue is close to the opposite of "inherently worsening insulin sensitivity." Although a lipolytic metabolism is present in low-carbohydrate high-fat diets and in fasting, the former does not cause insulin resistance.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/02/02/ketogenic-diet-health-benefits.aspx

E32abdc9a483de43def522faf81ed4e9

(0)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:40 PM

Your understanding of science always impresses me--please tell me in layman's terms?

E32abdc9a483de43def522faf81ed4e9

(0)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:35 PM

If you've ever had an eating issue/disorder you know that "advice" isn't really helpful. I don't *intend* to overeat my whole life but I'm 43 & know I won't change overnight. I'm better than I was in my 30's and from there I was better than in my 20's. It's a managed thing, not a recovery point. I think most women are interested in the weight aspect of any eating plan. I love eating primal because it just makes sense. My mind spins at the science that many people on here seem to understand, and I'm hoping that they can enlighten me with the various functions of the body in this plan.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:29 PM

I took you to mean it's normal for it to be regularly irregular, but regularly nonetheless, overeating... Which in my answer I wanted to encourage you to question the whys and wherefores about alongside the suggestion made about the explicit quesiotn you asked.........

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:26 PM

false that ketotic diets induce physiological insulin resistance? That's what I was getting at... you disagree...?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:21 PM

It would be important to note that's inherently false.

E32abdc9a483de43def522faf81ed4e9

(0)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:07 PM

I'd heard that too, but I've also heard that ketones in excess are what are peed out, so unless your body becomes perfect at producing ketones in an exact quantity I don't know how that would be the case (that the stix won't be pink any more.) I know two people who've been completely paleo for years and they still have pink on their stix.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 02:14 PM

I think it's important to note here that keto diets inherently worsen insulin sensitivity when you're eating them... And that, even in cases where you eat carbs while eating generally keto, glyogen stores will be totally empty so that when carbs come to the party the body has scope to eventually put them places...

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 28, 2014
at 08:31 PM

Interesting, I did a convert to answer and it disappeared.

E32abdc9a483de43def522faf81ed4e9

(0)

on April 28, 2014
at 07:40 PM

I know what you mean about not having a fat aversion--that is definitely something I have to think of! But I am not eating junk all the time, hardly ever. But when I do it's "old school" for me, as in, full on binge. I have always had a binging issue so it isn't really that I'm binging on any more fat than I used. to.

  • E32abdc9a483de43def522faf81ed4e9

    asked by

    (0)
  • Views
    2K
  • Last Activity
    1542D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

8 Answers

0
7a777966a2b7f30251c358b6fe35936f

on April 30, 2014
at 11:03 AM

Refined grains like white rice and those used to make white bread and sugary breakfast oats have had a large portion of their fiber and supplements stripped away. They transform into (glucose) so quick that, in the same way as sugar itself, they can result in a spike in our insulin level. This tells our body that a lot of vitality is promptly accessible and that it ought to quit blazing fat and begin putting away it.

0
Medium avatar

on April 29, 2014
at 05:43 PM

at the very least - keto keeps your water retention VERY low, and eating more carbs than you've been eating will put all that water weight right back on you. (speaking from personal experience)

0
E32abdc9a483de43def522faf81ed4e9

on April 29, 2014
at 04:58 PM

I don't have much weight to lose, some would say I have nothing to lose. My curiosity isn't really even about losing weight it's about how fast one gains weight (from refined stuff, not the primal or paleo stuff) after being in keto for a length of time. Is there a difference, that's all I think I wondered. Since people talk so much about the actual cellular functions changing in paleo I thought it might make sense that an ability to process refined food decreased in that mode.

0
De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

on April 29, 2014
at 03:55 PM

I hear that if you're truly keto-adapted then you don't pee out the ketones as you burn them for energy, but yeah if your body is trained to burn fat then when you reintroduce carbs you'll start storing fat as your body isn't used to burning carbs. What I find weird is I can eat a ton of ice cream and not gain weight, but if I eat some starches I gain weight very quickly.

E32abdc9a483de43def522faf81ed4e9

(0)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:07 PM

I'd heard that too, but I've also heard that ketones in excess are what are peed out, so unless your body becomes perfect at producing ketones in an exact quantity I don't know how that would be the case (that the stix won't be pink any more.) I know two people who've been completely paleo for years and they still have pink on their stix.

0
E32abdc9a483de43def522faf81ed4e9

on April 29, 2014
at 02:37 PM

If I gave the impression that I think overeating is an OK regular practice then I apologize, that is not the case. I really didn't come here for counseling on that, I was just curious if the body has a different way or more trouble metabolizing SAD foods, possibly piling on fat more easily, once keto adapted.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 04:29 PM

I took you to mean it's normal for it to be regularly irregular, but regularly nonetheless, overeating... Which in my answer I wanted to encourage you to question the whys and wherefores about alongside the suggestion made about the explicit quesiotn you asked.........

0
Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

on April 29, 2014
at 02:25 PM

you eat a keto diet and then overeat on junk food (generally high in carbs and fat, and total energy): result probably is retaining some of the fat if this is a frequent practice... Here and there, metabolism will raise... But overeating over sustained periods, esp at large amounts, probably will make you have more fat mass... Irrespective of the weight thing, I tihnk it is probably not good for mental health...

Esp if you are eating a high fat diet, being not insulin sensitive, and then suddenly pile on a whole lot of fat and carbs together, this likely predispoes fat retained over time... You're eating more in this case... The junk/quality aspects probably doesn't help teh overall state of play in your body, but also if you eat too much, yearh you'll prbably gain something...

Mor important in my opinion is looking at whole picture and thinking why are you overeating, before now, and now... In your other thread I posted in I suggested maybe a metnality about restriction isn't helpful... neither is overeating, or overeating on junk... Taking care of yourself on an overall level probably is...

maybe restrictive mentality and current keto practices mean that once in an envrionment, particular affective state perhaps, maybe some sort of 'celebration' atmostphere/ (is celebration eating food that makes you feel not so good...? this is a rhetorical question, I'm not attempts to implciit suggest a criticism of you...

Having problems with insulin sensitity too will mean that spikes and troughs will ahppen very quickly meaning you migth find it easy to eat more and more, as body starts working overtime to put the calories away....

As I've suggested, I don't think weight is a good frame through which to funamentally evalute things... Sure one aspect, but seek overall health/wellbeing as yourself as a whole person and I think this issue fades in perceived importance.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 29, 2014
at 05:00 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_ketogenic_diet

Since the glycogen stores in the liver and muscles are depleted, these carbohydrates go straight to refilling them, instead of being added to the body's fat stores. For this reason, the amount of calories consumed during a refeed can be far above an individual's usual dietary intake. While a typical CKD consists of 50g or less carbs per day, the typical refeed consists of 450-600g of carbs.

0
Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 28, 2014
at 08:27 PM

Post keto-adaptation I find higher-GI carbs tend to turn to body heat pretty easily, right up there with MCT oil. For me, this is just a little bit of white rice after an evening exercise vs garbage food. It feels like they get rapidly oxidized with little room for storage. If you're into testing, you'll want to look into BHB blood testing, as the strips are only detecting wasted acetoacetate at varying dilutions. (You can pick up a meter for 20 bucks.)

I would tend to think that you would gain weight less easily from refined foods if you've spent a considerable amount of time improving your insulin sensitivity.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on April 29, 2014
at 02:14 PM

I think it's important to note here that keto diets inherently worsen insulin sensitivity when you're eating them... And that, even in cases where you eat carbs while eating generally keto, glyogen stores will be totally empty so that when carbs come to the party the body has scope to eventually put them places...

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on April 28, 2014
at 07:18 PM

I think the bigger problem is you no longer have a fat aversion, thus incorporating the "junk" is done without regard to reducing the fat. If you are high everything, so will be your weight.

E32abdc9a483de43def522faf81ed4e9

(0)

on April 28, 2014
at 07:40 PM

I know what you mean about not having a fat aversion--that is definitely something I have to think of! But I am not eating junk all the time, hardly ever. But when I do it's "old school" for me, as in, full on binge. I have always had a binging issue so it isn't really that I'm binging on any more fat than I used. to.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!