4

votes

Why is VLC bad..other than mental?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created March 29, 2011 at 3:17 PM

I have noticed quite of few posting stating long term VLC is not good for yoru health.--why? ANd I am not talking about the grumpy/fog no carbs feelings.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

I think VLC works very well as a seasonal thing.

Bfa1c9eacfc94a1b62f3a39b574480c6

(3700)

on April 03, 2012
at 11:51 PM

@Melissa - I believe this happened to me too. I'm not sure if it was the reduced stress from my brain/body actually receiving its glucose requirement, or psychologically, when certain food choices suddenly jumped back on my radar (white rice, potatoes n' the such.)

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on March 31, 2011
at 06:39 PM

I think Bernstein is absolutely correct. Clearly this is working for you (congrats!) so I think sticking with it for now is a great idea. I don't like the word "forever" and perhaps there will be a time when you can experiment with raising carbs but for now I think you are on the right path.

39a1a0bc7855c084ac59df60fdf9c0dd

(1505)

on March 31, 2011
at 06:13 PM

How do you know if you have a cortisol issue?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 30, 2011
at 06:14 PM

Thanks Amanda and Katherine, checking out the Masterjohn post now.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 30, 2011
at 06:14 PM

Thanks Amanda and Katherine, checking out the Masterjohn thread now.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on March 30, 2011
at 10:23 AM

Thanks Amanda. @Dr. K, L-carnosine does that. Meat is extreme paleo and damn good. However, that doesn't at all refute Chris' points or mine. Just because one food has benefits doesn't mean that it's more beneficial to eat more of that food to the exclusion of others that are just as biologically necessary.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on March 30, 2011
at 10:21 AM

Maybe some sort of Herxheimer reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_reaction) ?

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on March 30, 2011
at 02:09 AM

@WCC Paul: I am assuming she was referencing this article: http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/03/anyone-doing-paleo-without-liver-bones.html

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on March 30, 2011
at 01:50 AM

I think chris is not correct on this. And I dont believe the assertion that gluconeogenesis increase cortisol production. L carnosine has been well studied and is predominantly found in red meats of animal skeletal muscle in its greatest levels and it has been shown to be a very potent induction agent of lengthening telomeres. Anything that does that is decidedly extreme paleo and damn good.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on March 29, 2011
at 09:46 PM

I eat 75 grams a day and consider it moderate carb.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 29, 2011
at 07:00 PM

It should also be noted that we have another good thread on the Jaminets' posts that Melissa links to. Here it is, a question from one of the Andrews: http://paleohacks.com/questions/14028/carbohydrate-deficiency See especially pfw's answer.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:45 PM

And I think Ambimorph is also correct to say that she never pushes her diet or claims it's right for everyone.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:42 PM

@Melissa, I think that Ambimorph was assuming we were familiar with all of her other posts on ZC/VLC where she *does* in fact elaborate and talk about various arguments and counter-arguments. But of course it's not good form to give links to your own answers and questions in a new thread, and sometimes one doesn't have time to write out a full answer.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:37 PM

Katherine, do you have a specific link for Chris M. on muscle meat? Your link goes to his blog as a whole, which isn't a bad thing of course, especially if that's what you meant, but if you had a specific post or two in mind I'd be interested in seeing them. (I do read his blog from time to time but not with the regularity that I read, say, Paleohacks.)

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:32 PM

Thanks for the link (Matt Stone). I clicked on it to find out why someone had it in for the co-creator of South Park and was pleasantly surprised to find that it was germane to me personally.

9055f14c31610afd4d3068ec48eb6d90

(984)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:27 PM

@Melissa-- what do you consider VLC?

9aa2a816c61170cc0183a68be0386ba5

(1702)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:24 PM

What percentage constitutes VLC vs. Moderate carb? I'm averaging about 50g carbs daily as I'm really going for weight loss (about 40 pounds+ if I can) but I don't see an issue with getting up into the 100's once I'm in maintenance. I'm especially looking forward to the occasional bowl of rice ^_^

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:19 PM

There have been numerous MDA posts on thyroid and adrenal issues cropping up with both VLC and IF. I think both are likely related to micronutrient difficiencies. Sometimes resolving the deficiency is sufficient but if damage is extensive and long term, it's possible that it may not resolve.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:39 PM

That's fair. Personal experience is very valuable.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:35 PM

But that's in part why it is difficult to answer this, or any scientific question with a "no". The most succinct answer is that there doesn't seem to be any evidence.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:33 PM

Okay, you're right. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, and it's true I am not a biochemist. I could have elaborated on where people have suggested problems that I don't think hold water.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:31 PM

I never push ZC or VLC on anyone, but I always jump in to correct the various mythology about it's safeness, because I would hate for anyone to miss out on the benefits because of some stupid blog post they read.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 29, 2011
at 04:31 PM

"I haven't found any reason to believe VLC is bad for your health. I've studied it extensively, and find quite the opposite." is not an answer. It's not credible.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:28 PM

So, you're attacking my credibility, and implying I'm a zealot? I hardly think that's fair. I have put a lot of thought into my prior posts on this kind of issue, going into detail about why I think some reasoning is valid and other reasoning isn't. I've often repeated that I don't think everyone needs to eat VLC.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:23 PM

Every body is different it seems. I lost my weight eating VLC. I can maintain weight on a much higher carb intake but cannot seem to lose that way.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:20 PM

Gluconeogenesis is stressful just like any other biological process is. Exercise. Digestion. Did you read the linked article? Paul Jaminet talks about it too....but he thinks it's stressful to the point that it should be avoided. With that, I disagree. Lots of biologically normal, appropriate states are slightly stressful. Not a bad thing though, in fact, it's beneficial.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:19 PM

Are we talking VLC or ZC though? I see them as very different.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:18 PM

Good point ambimorph. I think NTT is important whether or not carbs are on the table. Ithink people are missing the point when they imply that we can get from non-starchy or starchy veggies what we *would be getting* if we were eating HTT/NTT/WA. But that's exactly what they're doing: implying that if you eat only muscle meat, some plant foods are necessary to supply nutrients we would be getting from organs. It's fundamentally flawed as no plant foods will be supplying us with retinol, zinc, high high dose b vitamins or animal fats, all of which would be supplied by offal.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 29, 2011
at 04:15 PM

I have studied VLC ers extensively and find that most of them are experts on anthropology, nutrition science, and biochemistry. Or at least they like to think they are. I often think the reason VLC is so disliked is that its followers have a vegan-like zeal and arrogance that their diet is the best for everyone and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 29, 2011
at 04:12 PM

when I stopped VLC, the cortisol issues went away. THere is no study on the matter since VLC is a rather niche diet.

Af2ad65226384cedd4f5f08825a75b5d

(665)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:04 PM

Could you elaborate?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:02 PM

If you find concrete evidence to the contrary, please add an answer here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/25449/why-do-people-consider-ketosis-stressful-to-the-body

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:00 PM

I see no reason to believe that VLC causes cortisol issues. If you had pre-existing cortisol issues, and you don't eat frequently enough, that could be a problem, regardless of the composition of your diet.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 03:57 PM

Why is nose to tail so often brought up when the conversation is VLC, but not if carbs are in the diet? Why do you think gluconeogenesis is "stressful"?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 29, 2011
at 03:45 PM

One question per thread please. I removed the other question.

1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on March 29, 2011
at 03:24 PM

I'll be watching this thread. I like the questions. I don't have any answers though which is too bad.

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8 Answers

6
Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

on March 29, 2011
at 03:49 PM

VLC may or may not be a problem depending on how it's done and an individuals response to it. Some seem to do fine. Some not. The lack of variety food intake that some fall prey to, likely precipitates nutritional deficiences which then cause other problems.

Here, Chris Masterjohn writes on the issues of excessive muscle meat consumption.

I can't imagine a scenario in the EEA in which we didn't eat the whole animal, yet few in the paleo and primal communities have embraces "head-to-tail", "nose-to-tail" or "whole animal" eating. Relying on muscle meat only does not nutritional sufficiency make.

Where traditional diets are still eaten, and with the data available regarding traditional diets in the past, it's perfectly clear that the whole animal was eaten, often with a bias toward organs (brain, lungs, liver, kidney et al), glands (thymus, adrenals et al) and fat.

There is no risk of eating whole animal (except for the pesky prion issue) but possibly significant risk if we don't.

The process of gluconeogenesis is somewhat stressful (ie making the minimal necessary amount of glucose from non-carb substrate) but all metabolic processes involve some stress and stress isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Going back to the EEA for a moment, it's hard to envision a scenario in which we didn't eat whatever was available - including some carbs at some times though this likely varied significantly depending on location (flora availability) and season.

Keeping carbohydrate intake overall low but keeping it varied (maybe 0 to the 400 jaminet recommended calories of starch?) seems to be a very sensible approach. When metabolic damage is present (ie T2 diabetes, PCOS, weight plateaus) it can't hurt to track blood glucose - both fasting and post prandial to get a sense of how fasts, food variation, specific carb sources and carb variation in general affect blood glucose.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on March 30, 2011
at 02:09 AM

@WCC Paul: I am assuming she was referencing this article: http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/03/anyone-doing-paleo-without-liver-bones.html

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on March 30, 2011
at 01:50 AM

I think chris is not correct on this. And I dont believe the assertion that gluconeogenesis increase cortisol production. L carnosine has been well studied and is predominantly found in red meats of animal skeletal muscle in its greatest levels and it has been shown to be a very potent induction agent of lengthening telomeres. Anything that does that is decidedly extreme paleo and damn good.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

I think VLC works very well as a seasonal thing.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:20 PM

Gluconeogenesis is stressful just like any other biological process is. Exercise. Digestion. Did you read the linked article? Paul Jaminet talks about it too....but he thinks it's stressful to the point that it should be avoided. With that, I disagree. Lots of biologically normal, appropriate states are slightly stressful. Not a bad thing though, in fact, it's beneficial.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:18 PM

Good point ambimorph. I think NTT is important whether or not carbs are on the table. Ithink people are missing the point when they imply that we can get from non-starchy or starchy veggies what we *would be getting* if we were eating HTT/NTT/WA. But that's exactly what they're doing: implying that if you eat only muscle meat, some plant foods are necessary to supply nutrients we would be getting from organs. It's fundamentally flawed as no plant foods will be supplying us with retinol, zinc, high high dose b vitamins or animal fats, all of which would be supplied by offal.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 30, 2011
at 06:14 PM

Thanks Amanda and Katherine, checking out the Masterjohn thread now.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 03:57 PM

Why is nose to tail so often brought up when the conversation is VLC, but not if carbs are in the diet? Why do you think gluconeogenesis is "stressful"?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:37 PM

Katherine, do you have a specific link for Chris M. on muscle meat? Your link goes to his blog as a whole, which isn't a bad thing of course, especially if that's what you meant, but if you had a specific post or two in mind I'd be interested in seeing them. (I do read his blog from time to time but not with the regularity that I read, say, Paleohacks.)

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on March 30, 2011
at 10:23 AM

Thanks Amanda. @Dr. K, L-carnosine does that. Meat is extreme paleo and damn good. However, that doesn't at all refute Chris' points or mine. Just because one food has benefits doesn't mean that it's more beneficial to eat more of that food to the exclusion of others that are just as biologically necessary.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 30, 2011
at 06:14 PM

Thanks Amanda and Katherine, checking out the Masterjohn post now.

5
0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 29, 2011
at 09:26 PM

My personal speculation, based on no hard evidence, is that the ability to produce glucose varies between individuals.

This is the process of gluconeognesis converting certain ammino acids, lactate and glycerol into glucose and takes place in the liver and also the kidneys. Glucose is needed for a range of functions in your body as well as keeping your brain cells alive.

I would speculate that people who can live happily while consuming almost no carbohydrates are producing all the glucose their body needs for all its functions.

I would also speculate that people who feel bad eating no carbohydrates or start to suffer after a period of time are not producing quite enough glucose to cover all their bodies requirements and after a while some body systems start to deteriorate.

This type of variation between individuals is normal and present in most of the bodies systems. But as I said this is simply idle speculation.

5
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:01 PM

I haven't found any reason to believe VLC is bad for your health. I've studied it extensively, and find quite the opposite.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:19 PM

Are we talking VLC or ZC though? I see them as very different.

Af2ad65226384cedd4f5f08825a75b5d

(665)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:04 PM

Could you elaborate?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:33 PM

Okay, you're right. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, and it's true I am not a biochemist. I could have elaborated on where people have suggested problems that I don't think hold water.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:42 PM

@Melissa, I think that Ambimorph was assuming we were familiar with all of her other posts on ZC/VLC where she *does* in fact elaborate and talk about various arguments and counter-arguments. But of course it's not good form to give links to your own answers and questions in a new thread, and sometimes one doesn't have time to write out a full answer.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:28 PM

So, you're attacking my credibility, and implying I'm a zealot? I hardly think that's fair. I have put a lot of thought into my prior posts on this kind of issue, going into detail about why I think some reasoning is valid and other reasoning isn't. I've often repeated that I don't think everyone needs to eat VLC.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 29, 2011
at 04:15 PM

I have studied VLC ers extensively and find that most of them are experts on anthropology, nutrition science, and biochemistry. Or at least they like to think they are. I often think the reason VLC is so disliked is that its followers have a vegan-like zeal and arrogance that their diet is the best for everyone and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:35 PM

But that's in part why it is difficult to answer this, or any scientific question with a "no". The most succinct answer is that there doesn't seem to be any evidence.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 29, 2011
at 04:31 PM

"I haven't found any reason to believe VLC is bad for your health. I've studied it extensively, and find quite the opposite." is not an answer. It's not credible.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:31 PM

I never push ZC or VLC on anyone, but I always jump in to correct the various mythology about it's safeness, because I would hate for anyone to miss out on the benefits because of some stupid blog post they read.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:45 PM

And I think Ambimorph is also correct to say that she never pushes her diet or claims it's right for everyone.

4
7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

on March 29, 2011
at 03:47 PM

I think what you have seen is people stating that VLC did not work for them. We also have people that VLC has worked for awesomely.

Every body is different.

I lost 100+lbs doing high protein, moderate carb. It's not that it doesn't work, but you have to really watch your calories and track your food which many people don't like.

9aa2a816c61170cc0183a68be0386ba5

(1702)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:24 PM

What percentage constitutes VLC vs. Moderate carb? I'm averaging about 50g carbs daily as I'm really going for weight loss (about 40 pounds+ if I can) but I don't see an issue with getting up into the 100's once I'm in maintenance. I'm especially looking forward to the occasional bowl of rice ^_^

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:23 PM

Every body is different it seems. I lost my weight eating VLC. I can maintain weight on a much higher carb intake but cannot seem to lose that way.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on March 29, 2011
at 09:46 PM

I eat 75 grams a day and consider it moderate carb.

3
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 29, 2011
at 03:45 PM

I Used To Think Matt Stone Was A Douche, I Was Wrong

Zero carb dangers series

A lot of people, like me, have short term success and then start having issues with cortisol. I am convinced cultures that are very low carb like the Inuit have genetic adaptations. You can tell a skull is Inuit from physical features, if the outside is different, why not the inside too? I think more study should be done, but fear of "racial differences" has hobbled a lot of it.

39a1a0bc7855c084ac59df60fdf9c0dd

(1505)

on March 31, 2011
at 06:13 PM

How do you know if you have a cortisol issue?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:02 PM

If you find concrete evidence to the contrary, please add an answer here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/25449/why-do-people-consider-ketosis-stressful-to-the-body

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:19 PM

There have been numerous MDA posts on thyroid and adrenal issues cropping up with both VLC and IF. I think both are likely related to micronutrient difficiencies. Sometimes resolving the deficiency is sufficient but if damage is extensive and long term, it's possible that it may not resolve.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 29, 2011
at 04:12 PM

when I stopped VLC, the cortisol issues went away. THere is no study on the matter since VLC is a rather niche diet.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:39 PM

That's fair. Personal experience is very valuable.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 29, 2011
at 04:00 PM

I see no reason to believe that VLC causes cortisol issues. If you had pre-existing cortisol issues, and you don't eat frequently enough, that could be a problem, regardless of the composition of your diet.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 29, 2011
at 07:00 PM

It should also be noted that we have another good thread on the Jaminets' posts that Melissa links to. Here it is, a question from one of the Andrews: http://paleohacks.com/questions/14028/carbohydrate-deficiency See especially pfw's answer.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:32 PM

Thanks for the link (Matt Stone). I clicked on it to find out why someone had it in for the co-creator of South Park and was pleasantly surprised to find that it was germane to me personally.

9055f14c31610afd4d3068ec48eb6d90

(984)

on March 29, 2011
at 06:27 PM

@Melissa-- what do you consider VLC?

Bfa1c9eacfc94a1b62f3a39b574480c6

(3700)

on April 03, 2012
at 11:51 PM

@Melissa - I believe this happened to me too. I'm not sure if it was the reduced stress from my brain/body actually receiving its glucose requirement, or psychologically, when certain food choices suddenly jumped back on my radar (white rice, potatoes n' the such.)

1
39a1a0bc7855c084ac59df60fdf9c0dd

(1505)

on March 31, 2011
at 06:16 PM

What would people who think VLC isn't a good idea, at least not over the long term, say about its usefulness for diabetics? I'm Type II, and my a1c has dropped from 8.4 to the mid 5's in 90 days, while reducing my oral meds (I don't use insulin) by 75%.

Dr. Bernstein of diabetes fame recommends diabetics keep carbs under 25g/day forever - not just an induction phase.

Would love any thoughts.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on March 31, 2011
at 06:39 PM

I think Bernstein is absolutely correct. Clearly this is working for you (congrats!) so I think sticking with it for now is a great idea. I don't like the word "forever" and perhaps there will be a time when you can experiment with raising carbs but for now I think you are on the right path.

1
A68f24168bc0de414a038037e287b581

on March 29, 2011
at 04:30 PM

I've never been VLC for a very long time, but I have periods where somewhat naturally my body doesn't want to eat veggies or other carbs. I end up eating only meat, fish and eggs... but then after a while I feel like eating a fruit or broccoli and I know that it means my body wants something else. So I listen :) I have days (up to a week or so) on VLC or ZC, then a few days with higher carb, fruits and so on.

I think it's good to listen to your body, and not be overly zealous about any rigid food philosophy. As others said, every body is different. My body doesn't read blogs so it doesn't know it "supposed to be" perfect on one particular diet ;-)

Personally, I think VLC for long term isn't the ideal because of the differences in food quality and lack of necessary vitamins, micro-nutrients which are easier to get with some plants added. Both plants and farm animals are not the same as they were thousands of years ago. Even grass-fed beef is eating grass which grows on soil depleted of its natural nutrients and elements.

0
Medium avatar

on March 29, 2011
at 09:53 PM

I kind of wonder if a mass die-off of microflora is disadvantageous. Presumably they could go dormant for a while, but at some point they're just going to die. Maybe it wouldn't matter since you probably only need the ones that actually cope with your diet, but what if VLC doesn't pan out for you and you want to eat carbs in the future? Have you lost the ability to, for example, convert fiber into short chain fatty acids in the gut? I don't have a complete understanding of this, but my assumption is that we don't usually reintroduce anaerobic microbes into our guts.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on March 30, 2011
at 10:21 AM

Maybe some sort of Herxheimer reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_reaction) ?

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