4

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Do you keep a Very Low Carb PaleoNu way of eating? (Dr. Kurt Harris)

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 11, 2011 at 1:32 AM

Do you, personally, eat fewer than 20 carbs per day AND follow Dr. Kurt Harris' guidelines for a pastoral diet?

Here is his recently updated Get Started page.

http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/


I find it a very calm and restorative way to eat, as though it were designed for me. :)

ETA: As my question appears to have been unclear: I am simply looking for others who eat this way. I am not suggesting that Dr. Harris recommends this amount of carbs in his general guidelines.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 12, 2011
at 03:32 AM

@PaleoGran: What I do with comments sometimes is copy what's in the comment using Command-C (Macintosh), then delete the comment, then add a new comment, then paste in with Command-V, then edit as necessary. I do that when I catch something real soon after writing. If you do it much later then you lose the order of the comments in the thread. But I've also found that people on Paleohacks are pretty understanding about little slip-ups in tone, everyone seems used to it. Don't know if you were referring to your comment above, but I certainly wasn't bothered by any misunderstanding. Cheers!

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on January 12, 2011
at 12:33 AM

If I remember correctly, in the Jimmy Moore interview he said he was about 20 percent carbs. At 2000 calories thats 100 grams. I do like that he doesn't specify a macronutrient ratio though, and of course vlc would fit in.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on January 12, 2011
at 12:29 AM

Yup. I've increased my starches. Mainly from potato, but I honestly don't feel a difference.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on January 12, 2011
at 12:23 AM

Paul, I'm glad you found out about the casein and improved your health. Hope you are doing well. I've gone back and edited a couple of my posts here, when I realized what I'd written didn't sit well with me. Wish I could edit in these comment boxes after posting. :)

Ceda025d1f349bc43be115a5f9199fb1

(501)

on January 11, 2011
at 07:08 PM

I also eat along the lines of PHD. I find it very satiating and I feel great.

0adda19045a3641edac0008364b91110

(1146)

on January 11, 2011
at 05:11 PM

I just started experimenting with the Perfect Health Diet style too, after being VLC for 5 months. Waiting to see where it takes me.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 08:09 AM

Well, I don't think we could say that KGH is "against" fruit and vegetables in the way that he is against gluten or linoleic acid. (And I know you were speaking loosely, but I'm just trying to be clear.) I think one of the most memorable ways he put it was that he said he eats vegetables as a "hedge"--just in case animal products themselves aren't enough to do it. Though he did say some pretty strong anti-vegetable things in his first Jimmy Moore interview now that I think of it. Anyhow I don't think there's anything on this recently, but I'm still only part way through the new interview.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on January 11, 2011
at 05:28 AM

I'll have to check it out; thanks for the heads up. I remember reading through Harris' archives and seeing his disdain for any fructose but also posts that seemed to indicate that he was skeptical of vegetable matter in general. Edit-This: http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/11/10/plants-and-plant-compounds-are-not-essential-or-magic.html Is he still skeptical of any inclusion of vegetables and fruit?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 02:14 AM

Ok, gotcha. I also just had these things running through my head and just started rambling -- and then there was no stopping me. Answer to your revised question: I eat paleo, probably around 50g of carbohydrate a day, but I also limit dairy pretty much just to butter, and keep other dairy occasional. Is that PaleoNu? I guess so. I used to be more of a KGH kind of guy, I was very much into the cream, but then I realized that it didn't really suit me all that well. I suspect a casein-sinus congestion link.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 02:07 AM

@Travis: Have you read the "Professor Gumby" post from Dr. H? There's an interesting part in there about the San habitually ignoring fruit. I don't assume any conclusions from that, but thought you might find it interesting.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 02:05 AM

Oh, I gotcha. I guess I also just had these things running through my head and just started rambling -- and then there was no stopping me. Answer to your question: I eat paleo, probably around 50g of carbohydrate a day, but I also limit dairy pretty much just to butter, and keep other dairy occasional. Is that PaleoNu? I guess so. I used to be more of a KGH kind of guy, I was very much into the cream, but then I realized that it didn't really suit me all that well. I suspect a casein-sinus congestion link.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:55 AM

I agree with this post!

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:54 AM

Hi, Paul. My question is do you eat VLC and follow Dr. Harris' guidelines. It is quite possible to do both. I'll edit my question so it is more obvious.

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6 Answers

3
0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on January 11, 2011
at 04:40 PM

I agree that Panu is a "calm and restorative way to eat." After approx. 5 months of following the guidelines, I've lost more weight than I dreamed possible, and feel great except for one annoying thing: constipation. Enter stage right the Jaminets and "Perfect Health Diet" with the recommendation of adding good starches i.e. sweet potato, white potato, white rice, and taro. I'm experimenting and so far I feel less dried out from the inside out. It has to do with mucin that appears to be a result of eating the good starches. I don't know how many grams, say half a potato, half a cup of rice. I'm learning as I go what is best for me. I'm a devotee of Kurt Harris and am so glad he is back to posting.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on January 12, 2011
at 12:29 AM

Yup. I've increased my starches. Mainly from potato, but I honestly don't feel a difference.

Ceda025d1f349bc43be115a5f9199fb1

(501)

on January 11, 2011
at 07:08 PM

I also eat along the lines of PHD. I find it very satiating and I feel great.

0adda19045a3641edac0008364b91110

(1146)

on January 11, 2011
at 05:11 PM

I just started experimenting with the Perfect Health Diet style too, after being VLC for 5 months. Waiting to see where it takes me.

3
Medium avatar

on January 11, 2011
at 01:52 AM

I guess I do everything except for avoiding fruit. The notion that we are not designed for contemporary "frankenfruit" seems flawed to me. I can't picture a paleolithic hunter-gatherer discovering a crab-apple tree (or whatever primitive fruit tree/shrub you like) and eating one tiny piece of fruit and then moving on. They would have eaten/collected as much as were there. The idea that humans would pass up easy food simply because the units were smaller strikes me as being absurd.

As such, one might have gotten quite a bit of carbs from paleolithic fruit. Perhaps not every day (depending on region etc.), but there would have been binges for sure. Simply having to pick/chew more doesn't change the overall picture of what would been occurring.

That being said, I still don't eat apples; not because they are bags of sugar, but simply because the equivalent number of carbs in kiwis or even oranges will result in a greater nutrient density.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 02:07 AM

@Travis: Have you read the "Professor Gumby" post from Dr. H? There's an interesting part in there about the San habitually ignoring fruit. I don't assume any conclusions from that, but thought you might find it interesting.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on January 11, 2011
at 05:28 AM

I'll have to check it out; thanks for the heads up. I remember reading through Harris' archives and seeing his disdain for any fructose but also posts that seemed to indicate that he was skeptical of vegetable matter in general. Edit-This: http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/11/10/plants-and-plant-compounds-are-not-essential-or-magic.html Is he still skeptical of any inclusion of vegetables and fruit?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 08:09 AM

Well, I don't think we could say that KGH is "against" fruit and vegetables in the way that he is against gluten or linoleic acid. (And I know you were speaking loosely, but I'm just trying to be clear.) I think one of the most memorable ways he put it was that he said he eats vegetables as a "hedge"--just in case animal products themselves aren't enough to do it. Though he did say some pretty strong anti-vegetable things in his first Jimmy Moore interview now that I think of it. Anyhow I don't think there's anything on this recently, but I'm still only part way through the new interview.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:55 AM

I agree with this post!

3
47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:51 AM

Well, you are asking two separate questions, right? One is whether you eat VLC. The other is whether you follow PaleoNu.

Dr. H has moved further away from VLC. If you ask him he would say that VLC or LC was never a necessary part of PaleoNu, and I think he would be correct to say that; he always insisted that keeping an eye on macronutrients was important mostly for those who want to lose weight or keep a "broken metabolism" in check. But I think we can also say with fairness that there used to be a much greater emphasis on low-carb, or perhaps, put another way, that it used to be more of a theme for him. Consider the famous "I'm so bored with the Kitavans" post (here) from a little over a year ago. The real essence of that post, I think, is that paleo is not necessarily low-carb but is necessarily non-high-carb. That was always one of KGH's rallying points. And a certain low-carb "inflection" went along with it. Today, listening to the Jimmy Moore interview (I'm about twenty minutes through), he seems to be "inflected" a little differently, and the message that paleo is not necessarily low-carb comes through with a lot more emphasis. Similarly, the "Get started" page on the website has changed quite a bit. Gone are the somewhat lengthy sections on insulin, hyperinsulinemia, and anthropology. This goes hand-in-hand, I think, with the changed emphasis with respect to carbohydrate. (And probably reflects some influence from Stephan, et al.)

Just to clarify, I am by no means complaining or "calling him out" on changing his mind. Nothing wrong with changing your mind. I just find it all interesting.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 02:14 AM

Ok, gotcha. I also just had these things running through my head and just started rambling -- and then there was no stopping me. Answer to your revised question: I eat paleo, probably around 50g of carbohydrate a day, but I also limit dairy pretty much just to butter, and keep other dairy occasional. Is that PaleoNu? I guess so. I used to be more of a KGH kind of guy, I was very much into the cream, but then I realized that it didn't really suit me all that well. I suspect a casein-sinus congestion link.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on January 12, 2011
at 12:23 AM

Paul, I'm glad you found out about the casein and improved your health. Hope you are doing well. I've gone back and edited a couple of my posts here, when I realized what I'd written didn't sit well with me. Wish I could edit in these comment boxes after posting. :)

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 12, 2011
at 03:32 AM

@PaleoGran: What I do with comments sometimes is copy what's in the comment using Command-C (Macintosh), then delete the comment, then add a new comment, then paste in with Command-V, then edit as necessary. I do that when I catch something real soon after writing. If you do it much later then you lose the order of the comments in the thread. But I've also found that people on Paleohacks are pretty understanding about little slip-ups in tone, everyone seems used to it. Don't know if you were referring to your comment above, but I certainly wasn't bothered by any misunderstanding. Cheers!

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:54 AM

Hi, Paul. My question is do you eat VLC and follow Dr. Harris' guidelines. It is quite possible to do both. I'll edit my question so it is more obvious.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 02:05 AM

Oh, I gotcha. I guess I also just had these things running through my head and just started rambling -- and then there was no stopping me. Answer to your question: I eat paleo, probably around 50g of carbohydrate a day, but I also limit dairy pretty much just to butter, and keep other dairy occasional. Is that PaleoNu? I guess so. I used to be more of a KGH kind of guy, I was very much into the cream, but then I realized that it didn't really suit me all that well. I suspect a casein-sinus congestion link.

0
2abe901926e9ec6dcb4f46ae8296a160

on November 10, 2011
at 04:32 AM

But maybe had you never gone VLC you would not be so happy with the tubers now. A period of ketosis can reboot insulin sensitivity. VLC is useful for fixing any problems with a low-carb (or any) lifestyle.

0
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on January 11, 2011
at 02:13 AM

I echo wccpaul in that it seems Harris has moved away from VLC. Admiring Harris' writing and style very much I went pretty hardcore VLC after reading him thoroughly. I had alrday been paleo for about six months. Even did a three month no-plant-matter self experiment. (It was fine by the way.)

Then I went back to "normal" VLC with tons of salads and leafy greens, etc.

However, in the last few months I've started upping my carb intake a lot with sweet potatoes. I think tubers are pretty benign if one is healthy already with no weight issues.

So, no I am not VLC.

And yes I do follow Harris' steps.

0
E2fc67d5adf8e2302cfc1d15bca639d3

on January 11, 2011
at 01:56 AM

I eat very low carb all carbs from low glycemic veggies. I am required to do that since I am recovering from years with systemic candida. Probably no more than 50 g a day I'd guess. I don't even crave to do it another way anymore. Yea once in a while I'd enjoy a piece of fruit, but for the mealtime it doesn't phase me. I never have starches.

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