4

votes

Could Very Low Carb (VLC) diet suppress growth hormone secretion?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 31, 2011 at 1:50 PM

OK, we're not Wistar rats, but might it be that there is an optimal carbohydrate level for best health? And how would one find that optimal level? Cortisol level? IGF-1 level?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21427215

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on December 15, 2011
at 04:11 PM

Why is the raised nitric oxide a bad thing?

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on December 15, 2011
at 04:05 PM

But hey there's only essential aminos and fatty acids so maybe just live zero carb forever and see what happens. I'll continue to be a paleo bro with my banana and honey postworkout and some turkey breast. Every one knows carbs = fat, especially postworkout when you need them, so the answer is to never eat carbs and slowly just make your body and muscles smaller, oh wait thats after we first starve them of all nutrients and glycogen from dietary carb sources. SOUNDING PALEO BRAH? I don't need my muscles or anything, I just wanna eat VLC and lose weight, that's what being healthy is, correct?

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on December 15, 2011
at 04:04 PM

Sorry to break it to you VLC people but insulin is hugely important if you want muscle mass which I am going to hope and assume you want. I used to be against the post-workout carb load but it's just silly to not refuel, your body needs glycogen. Not to mention how much harder fats and proteins are to digest than carbs, talk about a tax on your intestines. What do I know though, I've -only lost 15-18lbs of fat this year and 2-3lbs of muscle (down from 190 to 170).

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on December 15, 2011
at 04:04 PM

It's a paleo bro, brah. Sorry I just think you VLC people are fucking idiots and are destroying your body. I'm only 19 years old but even I see the importance in insulin and carbs. YES clearly too much insulin is a bad thing but if you're extremely insulin sensitive, ei. working out fasted, or practicing IF in the mornings then extra insulin after a workout is just going to result in more growth.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on November 07, 2011
at 07:31 AM

lol its a paleo-bro

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:26 AM

The only protein source in the CH diet was sodium-casein; the only carbohydrate source was starch. Fat in the CH diet was composed of beef tallow and soy oil (50% each). In LC-HFD, the only protein source used was sodium-casein, and the only fat source was beef tallow. The LC-HFD contained virtually no carbohydrates, except a very little amount (∼2% of ME), which was technically necessary to deliver minerals and vitamins."

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:26 AM

Uh, here we go, here's the diet. Shockingly little carbohydrate, and in the low protein one very little protein. Amazing about the beef tallow though: "Composition of diets, expressed as a percentage of ME, was CH: 16.7% fat, 19% protein, and 64.3% carbohydrates (ME 17.6 MJ/kg); LC-HFD-1 (LC-HF-1): 78.7 fat, 19.1% protein, and 2.2% carbohydrates (ME 27.7 MJ/kg); LC-HFD-2 (LC-HF-2): 92.8% fat, 5.5% protein, and 1.7% carbohydrates (ME 31.6 MJ/kg). All diets were produced as semipurified diets. [Continued]

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:25 AM

On my heavy lift days I do take 2000mgs of ARG/Orn supplement

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:25 AM

Arginine and ornathine really stimulate GH release....but they also raise nitric oxide.....not good.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:19 AM

I have no gone to pictures yet.....but who knows.....maybe a vlog on hormones? I could do it.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on July 31, 2011
at 09:27 PM

OK, but some of us (visual learners) are going to need more pretty pictures to retain all this. ;)

9dd74d3941535d0aaa2c8d3cf454fb7e

on July 31, 2011
at 08:14 PM

Karen that is a very valid comment. Will try to get a copy of the entire article and add a comment here about what fats they were using.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on July 31, 2011
at 07:25 PM

not a good way to look at this paleo12.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on July 31, 2011
at 07:24 PM

yes......prostate disease is tied to IL6 and TNF alpha which are tied to leptin issues. The whole ball of wax is tied together.....its just hard to understand it unless you really have a 30000 ft view of biology. It took me 25 yrs to gain it. And I am trying to share it with you all as I unroll it.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on July 31, 2011
at 06:45 PM

Is this also why men with prostate problems, and therefore not getting a decent night's sleep for years, loose muscle mass so rapidly?

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on July 31, 2011
at 03:49 PM

Yes, insulin is very anabolic. However keep in mind that many people eating higher levels of healthy carbohydrates have very good insulin sensitivity and it's probably not quite that simple as insulin=growth.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 31, 2011
at 02:03 PM

I'd like to know what the actual components of the diet were. Some of the fats used in these diets are absolutely crap, and the researchers may not be testing what they think they're testing.

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4 Answers

1
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:19 AM

So, it looks like it says that both high fat, low carb diets reduced GH receptor activity, but the one with adequate protein increased GH secretion, making up for the reduced receptor activity, whereas the low protein diet didn't.

I think it is misleading to call only the latter one ketogenic. They're both ketogenic. One of them is also protein adequate. I'd go for that one.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:25 AM

On my heavy lift days I do take 2000mgs of ARG/Orn supplement

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:25 AM

Arginine and ornathine really stimulate GH release....but they also raise nitric oxide.....not good.

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on December 15, 2011
at 04:11 PM

Why is the raised nitric oxide a bad thing?

1
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on July 31, 2011
at 06:39 PM

It can.......but in the USA it is rare. Here is why.......the more carbs you eat the more likely you will blow your prolactin surge. IE you will lose it. Prolactin is tied to carb intake by the actions of NPY. People who are leptin resistant have high levels of NPY. For prolactin to work best you need lower levels of NPY in the hypothalamus. So a reasonable carb intake must be done.

Reasonable depends upon the context. If you are very fit and ripped you can handle a higher carb load and still maintain low NPY levels.

Most americans cant do this because of the SAD. The chronic over eating of carbs has completely trashed their HPA axis so they need to eat a VLC paleo diet to get it all working correctly.

the first part of the hormonal cascade is as follows.......... first step is Leptin levels rise slowly for fours post dinner. At midnight leptin then enters the hypothalamus. Once it binds to the receptor two things occur. The first is a second messenger is sent to the thyroid to up regulate T3 production to stimulate Uncoupling protein 3 in muscles to burn fat liberated as we sleep at a higher metabolic rate. These fats are burned not as energy but as free heat. It requires Leptin sensitivity and proper thyroid function at the muscle level.

The second effect is via another second messenger......the coupled receptor with leptin bound sends a message to the anterior pituitary to release prolactin from 12-2 AM......the prolactin release is required for proper control of sleep stages and yoking sleep and metabolism.....but the real benefit is this is the signal the hypothalamus uses to release puslitile Growth Hormone release from 2 AM to 5 AM during sleep stages 2-4. This allows the process of AUTOPHAGY to be of maximal efficiency as we sleep.

Recall that autophagy is the process of cellualr renewal. When we recycle proteins, learn, and retool our brains from yesterdays oxidative damage.

People who have sleep apnea.....are generally obese, Leptin resistant and never get their pulsatile GH release and as a result autophagy is poor in them......they suffer more diseases and age faster because their sleep is uncoupled from their metabolism.

Moreover they can never burn their excess calories as pure heat because the initial message was blocked........so they remain fat. They cant lose the weight either until they become leptin sensitive. When they do they notice a tremendous change in sleep........sleep is designed to be resotrative.

Prolactin is the trigger for GH release. GH decreases abdominal fat and increase your lean muscle mass and allows for major protein synthesis. Its levels fall off a cliff for most women after age 40 and for men after age fifty and there is a corresponding drop in the efficiency of sleep and autophagy. This is why older people sleep less than younger people. It is also why babies sleep so long.......this is when their GH is being released when everything is working optimally.

I hope this helps.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on July 31, 2011
at 07:24 PM

yes......prostate disease is tied to IL6 and TNF alpha which are tied to leptin issues. The whole ball of wax is tied together.....its just hard to understand it unless you really have a 30000 ft view of biology. It took me 25 yrs to gain it. And I am trying to share it with you all as I unroll it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:19 AM

I have no gone to pictures yet.....but who knows.....maybe a vlog on hormones? I could do it.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on July 31, 2011
at 06:45 PM

Is this also why men with prostate problems, and therefore not getting a decent night's sleep for years, loose muscle mass so rapidly?

Medium avatar

(4878)

on July 31, 2011
at 09:27 PM

OK, but some of us (visual learners) are going to need more pretty pictures to retain all this. ;)

0
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on July 31, 2011
at 03:43 PM

It is the timing of the carbs. If you do sprints intensly enough it wil create HGH. However consuming carbs post workout will null out the effect.

-3
77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on July 31, 2011
at 03:38 PM

Insulin = growth.

Simple enough?

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on July 31, 2011
at 03:49 PM

Yes, insulin is very anabolic. However keep in mind that many people eating higher levels of healthy carbohydrates have very good insulin sensitivity and it's probably not quite that simple as insulin=growth.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on July 31, 2011
at 07:25 PM

not a good way to look at this paleo12.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on November 07, 2011
at 07:31 AM

lol its a paleo-bro

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on December 15, 2011
at 04:04 PM

Sorry to break it to you VLC people but insulin is hugely important if you want muscle mass which I am going to hope and assume you want. I used to be against the post-workout carb load but it's just silly to not refuel, your body needs glycogen. Not to mention how much harder fats and proteins are to digest than carbs, talk about a tax on your intestines. What do I know though, I've -only lost 15-18lbs of fat this year and 2-3lbs of muscle (down from 190 to 170).

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on December 15, 2011
at 04:04 PM

It's a paleo bro, brah. Sorry I just think you VLC people are fucking idiots and are destroying your body. I'm only 19 years old but even I see the importance in insulin and carbs. YES clearly too much insulin is a bad thing but if you're extremely insulin sensitive, ei. working out fasted, or practicing IF in the mornings then extra insulin after a workout is just going to result in more growth.

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on December 15, 2011
at 04:05 PM

But hey there's only essential aminos and fatty acids so maybe just live zero carb forever and see what happens. I'll continue to be a paleo bro with my banana and honey postworkout and some turkey breast. Every one knows carbs = fat, especially postworkout when you need them, so the answer is to never eat carbs and slowly just make your body and muscles smaller, oh wait thats after we first starve them of all nutrients and glycogen from dietary carb sources. SOUNDING PALEO BRAH? I don't need my muscles or anything, I just wanna eat VLC and lose weight, that's what being healthy is, correct?

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