4

votes

Vitamin D: industrial vs. Dietary

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM

I am interested in discovering which is the best source? Sunlight, yes. But is it better to avoid, eg. the PUFAs in cod liver oil when taken as a vitamin D3 suppplement and opt for pill form? I have read that industrial vitamin D3 can be harmful even when kept in reasonable ranges(under 10,000i.u). Generally: Is a food source a better alternative to pills? What evil consequences befall the pill popper if any? The food gobbler? Assuming sunlight availability would it not be best and no added Vit D3?

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 16, 2011
at 10:57 PM

I do appreciate your recommendation and I will look more into it and in the meantime I've cut my supplement in half. I apologize for seeming hostile, that wasn't my intention. I supplement it because I am not always out for 45-60 min per day, I shoot for that but sometimes it doesn't happen. I also am wearing more clothing than is recommended for optimal sun exposure because I'm walking/jogging. So my logic is that it will all balance out.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 16, 2011
at 03:54 PM

sorry I was a bit rude... 67ng/ml is high enough already, and if you don't trust me, I hope you do very thorough research and don't just stop at the first expert-seeming person who tells you more is better. For what it's worth, I don't even think the vit D council recommends levels that high (I think they rec 40-60).

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 16, 2011
at 02:13 PM

I find it annoying that you seem offended that I questioned why you made the comment you did. I'm supposed to trust that your opinion is superior to almost everyone else on this board and at the vitamin D council and several recent vitamin d studies and because I didn't, I'm annoying? You were rude and condescending, people do not usually appreciate being talked down to. The fact that you think I'm hostile is interesting. You seemed hostile to me. You didn't give any "facts" either. This wasn't even my question, I gave an opinion to someone else's question. You don't have to like my opinion.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 16, 2011
at 01:29 PM

Hey, I just find it kind of annoying that generally that people are hostile to facts that contradict their belief in consensus. It's why we're where we are and it's the problem. 94ng/ml is the highest ever recorded natural serum level. 67ng/ml is higher than most people COULD obtain through sun exposure. But, because some Dr. K thinks it's too low, you're hostile towards me -- the guy who is helping you aviod a potentially costly mistake. Nice.

Ede6029838b9d17195c84bab64a5d88d

(181)

on May 15, 2011
at 05:15 PM

I could not find convincing evidence that extra vit D is beneficial when looking at others experiences. Personal experience appears to confirm it. I used to regularly take it for long time but I could not see or feel any difference, so I stopped. Instead I regularly eat raw herring or mackerel (sashimi). I feel no different than when taking it. Also, I think such concentrated amounts were never intended by nature and it is hard to fool nature. I guess if all you eat is canned food than I think supplementation would be helpful. Otherwise it is a waste of money. Just my opinion.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 15, 2011
at 01:49 PM

aaa: would you explain why supplementation of VitD3 is undesirable? I would like to avoid wasting cash/health(not necessarily in that order) on pills.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 15, 2011
at 01:47 PM

Are Vit D(3) supplements on a par with sunlight and food or above or below? I would like not to have to waste money if need be and have always been cautious of supplementation.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 15, 2011
at 04:13 AM

Jay - putting a smile after insulting someone you don't know doesn't make it less offensive. Also, the feeling is mutual-that is all.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 15, 2011
at 01:39 AM

Why don't you think it is beneficial?

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on May 15, 2011
at 12:59 AM

@jay -- watch the tone of your language. thanks in advance.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on May 15, 2011
at 12:44 AM

I think levels above 67 are not necessary. I'm not sure if those numbers can be attained only through supplements. You mean those living aroudn the equator wouldn't score above 67? Read Kurt Harris. Dr. Harris thinks if you're above 30, you're okay. He's skeptical that Vit D supplements can actually substitute for the sulight: they seem to be different types of Vitamin D. I used to take 10K everyday and I went above 80. Too much calcium circulated and I became constipated (well, I was more constipated than usual, let's put it that way). I try to be between 35-55, no higher than 60.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 15, 2011
at 12:32 AM

This study found in sun-rich environments where clothing or cultural practices do not prevent sun exposure, circulating 25(OH)D ranges from 135 to 225 nmol/L 54-90ng/ml http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/2/317.full

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 11:28 PM

That is correct -- the lab's range includes values that are physiolgocially impossible based on natural sun exposure. There's a study I coudl find for you if I didn't get the sense that you're kind of annoying... :)

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 14, 2011
at 09:06 PM

Jay - On my blood test results it gives a range for Vitamin D deficiency of less than 20 ng/ml, Sufficient Level 30-80 ng/ml and Possible Toxicity as Greater than 80 ng/ml. So according to you, the labs range listed is wrong as well as Dr. K and all of the other doctors and researchers who study Vitamin D levels in humans and what is recommended. Also, I am skeptical, I do my own research as well and do what I feel is best for me.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 14, 2011
at 07:06 PM

Do you have any data on duck/goose livers? I didn't assume that wild animals will be lean, merely that beef/lamb/chicke/pork livers are very lean. Why does vitamin A come into this? Ex hypothesi, we got those fat soluble nutrients solely from ingesting fat, whereas vitamin D largely from the sun, rather than only from other animals (who got all their vitamin D from the sun). Plus the vitamin A increases vitamin D needs, so getting adequate vitamin D by eating CLO for all our fat needs (~10,000IU) wouldn't suffice.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 14, 2011
at 07:05 PM

Do you have any data on duck/goose livers? I didn't assume that wild animals will be lean, merely that beef/lamb/chicke/pork livers are very lean. Why does vitamin A come into this? Ex hypothesi, we got those fat soluble nutrients solely from ingesting fat, whereas vitamin D largely from the sun, rather than only from other animals (who got all *their* vitamin D from the sun).

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 14, 2011
at 07:02 PM

Further to the food contnent of vit.D issue: Do you guys have quantities per item here: Liver, Butter, egg yolk, lard? I have also been convinced that most of these sources(especially liver, albeit beef) have insignificant amounts. BTW: where can one obtain lard that does not contain BHT/BHA?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:56 PM

Way to spell it out, love the 'greater than' signs. What would you consider optimal re: sun exposure?(to the whole body nude or maybe something less indiscrete)...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:55 PM

Food is inadequate by itself(assumption #1--possibly...); sun is inadequate by itself or with food( #2---possibly...); what about pills, ie. tablets or caplets? Should one take them given approx. 5,000+ i.u Vit D from the other sources?

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:48 PM

You might be confusing your units: 1ng/ml = 2.5nmol/L, with the result that 67ng/ml = 167.5 nmol/L.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:47 PM

You might be confusing your units: 1ng/ml = 2.5nmol/L 67ng/ml = 167.5 nmol/L.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:42 PM

People need to start being as skeptical about the advice from unorthodox internet doctors as they are of regular doctors.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:41 PM

And if we are out, we cover up because we have been taught to be sunphopic. Richard, you did not answer about your serum D3 level. Having lived in Sausalito, I am sure most if not all residents of SF county and Marin County are D3 deficient due to lack of sun a great many days of the year.

3c997ffae3db9464325b96979346d9e9

(1290)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:41 PM

You're right about beef liver not having mush vitamin D but duck, chicken and goose livers do. It's the animal fat where the vitamin D will be and it's not accurate to assume as many here do that wild meat is lean by definition. If diet did not provide adequate amounts of the fat soluble vitamins then how was the all important vitamin A obtained? The same nutritious foods listed contain the vitamin A and K and other nutrients too.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:41 PM

Seriously people, you need to start being as skeptical of unorthodox internet doctors as you are of regular doctors.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:40 PM

People need to start being as skeptical of crazy internet doctors as you are of regular doctors.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:38 PM

67 ng/ml is too high. In fact, it's on the very upper end of what is physiologically possible through simple sun exposure. Why would you ever want your serum level higher than what your body could do (in the tropics!) on its own. Very un-paleo and unwise. If Dr. K disagrees, he or she is simply wrong

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:37 PM

Richard, you didn't answer if you have ever had your D3 level checked.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:37 PM

67 ng/ml is too high. In fact, it's on the very upper end of what is physiologically possible through simply sun exposure. Why woudl you ever want your serum level higher than what your body could do in the tropics on its own. Very un-paleo and unwise. If Dr. K disagrees, he or she is simply wrong.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:35 PM

Seriously people, you need to start being as skeptical of crazy internet doctors as you are of any other doctor.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:34 PM

If you live in Florida, spend regular time in the sun and are still vitamin D deficient then does this not suggest something is not right? If you were anemic despite eating lots of red meat would you not want to know why, or would you just take high dose iron supplement?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:33 PM

If you live in Florida, spend regular time in the sun and are still vitamin D deficient then does this not suggest something is not right? If you were anemic despite eating lots of red meat would you not want to know why, or would you just take high dose iron supplement?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:30 PM

I'm not aware that pastured meat (esp. lean meat like liver) contains much vitamin D. I've heard that lard does, but not seen any reliable figures (ditto for dairy fat, eggs). If I were to eat sardines exclusively I'd still get less vitamin D than I can make in 5-10 minutes outside (in the UK) at the moment. I agree that you can't get vitamin D from the sun here 6 months of the year, but we still largely evolved where we could and did. Also our european ancestors would have spent those 6 months mostly outside, whereas we often spend almost all of daylight inside.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:27 PM

I'm not aware that pastured meat (esp. lean meat like liver) contains much vitamin D. I've heard that lard does, but not seen any reliable figures (ditto for dairy fat, eggs). If I were to eat sardines exclusively I'd still get less vitamin D than I can make in 5-10 minutes outside (in the UK) at the moment.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:23 PM

hcantrall, If you are ever looking for a Paleo Doctor in Florida Dr Ken Tourgeman, Fort Lauderdale is there. He and BillyE a patient co write http://nephropal.blogspot.com/ BillyE had chronic kidney disease and was an overweight diabetic and is now pretty much cured of his problems under the direction of Dr. T. His idea is to practice evolutionary medicine.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:22 PM

Matthew - as you can see by my Vit D level from the blood test I just had 2 weeks ago you'll see that I obviously do need to supplement it. 67 is right in the mid range according to conventional standards but people like Dr. K would say 67 is still too low.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:18 PM

Matthew, You can only make that statement if you have first hand information of Vit D3 lvels of people living in Florida. See my response to Richard N.

3c997ffae3db9464325b96979346d9e9

(1290)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:18 PM

There are only certain times of the year and hours of the day that sun exposure will offer vitamin D potential and that will vary as to where you are on the globe. This species evolved and thrived without pills.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:12 PM

But our caveman ancestors ran around naked all day and and made Vit D. California lifeguards measure 135-150ng/ml serum after a season working. The Vit D Council has measured Vit D3 after 30 min half naked full sun..15 min each side of body...makes 10000 to 20000IU. The same council wants people to be at 60ng/ml serum D3 and Dr K on PH wants his patients at 70 to 100ng/ml. And Dr Tourgeman, a practicing Nephrologist in Fort Lauderdale, Fl has stated on his Nephropal blog that almost all of his patients are deficient in D3 dispite living in Fl. Have you ever checked your serum Vit D3 level?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 05:50 PM

If you live in Florida and spend time outside there is no reason to take vitamin D supplements.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 05:23 PM

I use Vit D3 5000IU a day from this product http://www.swansonvitamins.com/NWF391/ItemDetail?n=0 My level is in the mid 80s ng/mL This product uses olive oil as the carrier instead of soybean oil that is used by other products.

87e9b93ebba7282403395c9e2ad887a5

(150)

on May 14, 2011
at 04:29 PM

I'm just curious but how are you supplementing your Vit. D. That is. What kind of Vit. D? What brand of Vit. D? I live near Toronto in Canada and I know I don't get as much sunlight.

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5 Answers

3
E34fbfa1bca9ae970c9c7313bf9de9f8

(1436)

on May 14, 2011
at 04:58 PM

Sunlight (optimal, the body down-regulates when optimal level achieved) > Supplement (ideal when sun isn't available, no down-regulation) > Food (typically inadequate source by itself)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:56 PM

Way to spell it out, love the 'greater than' signs. What would you consider optimal re: sun exposure?(to the whole body nude or maybe something less indiscrete)...

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 15, 2011
at 01:42 AM

I have to chime in here. I can tell you this much. I have had chapped lips since starting Paleo. I concurrently started taking Vitamin D supplements. I had chapped lips the entire time. At first I thought it was Vitamin C deficiency. I added eating a couple of lemons every day. Helped only a little. A few days ago, I stopped doing the Vitamin D and the chapped lips are finally going away.

Now, I understand the need for Vitamin D, but at least for me, it was having this not painful but aggravating side-effect.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 15, 2011
at 01:47 PM

Are Vit D(3) supplements on a par with sunlight and food or above or below? I would like not to have to waste money if need be and have always been cautious of supplementation.

1
34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 14, 2011
at 04:21 PM

I don't think you can get as much Vit. D as we seem to need just through food. It's amazing to me that my Vit D level wasn't higher, I've been supplementing 10,000 iu per day for the last few months and I live in Florida, spend 45-60 min a day outside walking and my level was only 67 ng/ml.

@Trevor - this is the Vitamin D3 I use http://www.solgar.com/SolgarProducts/Vitamin-D3-Cholecalciferol-5000-IU-Vegetable-Capsules.htm

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:37 PM

67 ng/ml is too high. In fact, it's on the very upper end of what is physiologically possible through simply sun exposure. Why woudl you ever want your serum level higher than what your body could do in the tropics on its own. Very un-paleo and unwise. If Dr. K disagrees, he or she is simply wrong.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 11:28 PM

That is correct -- the lab's range includes values that are physiolgocially impossible based on natural sun exposure. There's a study I coudl find for you if I didn't get the sense that you're kind of annoying... :)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:35 PM

Seriously people, you need to start being as skeptical of crazy internet doctors as you are of any other doctor.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:34 PM

If you live in Florida, spend regular time in the sun and are still vitamin D deficient then does this not suggest something is not right? If you were anemic despite eating lots of red meat would you not want to know why, or would you just take high dose iron supplement?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:40 PM

People need to start being as skeptical of crazy internet doctors as you are of regular doctors.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on May 15, 2011
at 12:44 AM

I think levels above 67 are not necessary. I'm not sure if those numbers can be attained only through supplements. You mean those living aroudn the equator wouldn't score above 67? Read Kurt Harris. Dr. Harris thinks if you're above 30, you're okay. He's skeptical that Vit D supplements can actually substitute for the sulight: they seem to be different types of Vitamin D. I used to take 10K everyday and I went above 80. Too much calcium circulated and I became constipated (well, I was more constipated than usual, let's put it that way). I try to be between 35-55, no higher than 60.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:22 PM

Matthew - as you can see by my Vit D level from the blood test I just had 2 weeks ago you'll see that I obviously do need to supplement it. 67 is right in the mid range according to conventional standards but people like Dr. K would say 67 is still too low.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 05:50 PM

If you live in Florida and spend time outside there is no reason to take vitamin D supplements.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 15, 2011
at 04:13 AM

Jay - putting a smile after insulting someone you don't know doesn't make it less offensive. Also, the feeling is mutual-that is all.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:55 PM

Food is inadequate by itself(assumption #1--possibly...); sun is inadequate by itself or with food( #2---possibly...); what about pills, ie. tablets or caplets? Should one take them given approx. 5,000+ i.u Vit D from the other sources?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:33 PM

If you live in Florida, spend regular time in the sun and are still vitamin D deficient then does this not suggest something is not right? If you were anemic despite eating lots of red meat would you not want to know why, or would you just take high dose iron supplement?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:42 PM

People need to start being as skeptical about the advice from unorthodox internet doctors as they are of regular doctors.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 15, 2011
at 12:32 AM

This study found in sun-rich environments where clothing or cultural practices do not prevent sun exposure, circulating 25(OH)D ranges from 135 to 225 nmol/L 54-90ng/ml http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/2/317.full

87e9b93ebba7282403395c9e2ad887a5

(150)

on May 14, 2011
at 04:29 PM

I'm just curious but how are you supplementing your Vit. D. That is. What kind of Vit. D? What brand of Vit. D? I live near Toronto in Canada and I know I don't get as much sunlight.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:47 PM

You might be confusing your units: 1ng/ml = 2.5nmol/L 67ng/ml = 167.5 nmol/L.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 16, 2011
at 01:29 PM

Hey, I just find it kind of annoying that generally that people are hostile to facts that contradict their belief in consensus. It's why we're where we are and it's the problem. 94ng/ml is the highest ever recorded natural serum level. 67ng/ml is higher than most people COULD obtain through sun exposure. But, because some Dr. K thinks it's too low, you're hostile towards me -- the guy who is helping you aviod a potentially costly mistake. Nice.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:18 PM

Matthew, You can only make that statement if you have first hand information of Vit D3 lvels of people living in Florida. See my response to Richard N.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:41 PM

Seriously people, you need to start being as skeptical of unorthodox internet doctors as you are of regular doctors.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 16, 2011
at 02:13 PM

I find it annoying that you seem offended that I questioned why you made the comment you did. I'm supposed to trust that your opinion is superior to almost everyone else on this board and at the vitamin D council and several recent vitamin d studies and because I didn't, I'm annoying? You were rude and condescending, people do not usually appreciate being talked down to. The fact that you think I'm hostile is interesting. You seemed hostile to me. You didn't give any "facts" either. This wasn't even my question, I gave an opinion to someone else's question. You don't have to like my opinion.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:23 PM

hcantrall, If you are ever looking for a Paleo Doctor in Florida Dr Ken Tourgeman, Fort Lauderdale is there. He and BillyE a patient co write http://nephropal.blogspot.com/ BillyE had chronic kidney disease and was an overweight diabetic and is now pretty much cured of his problems under the direction of Dr. T. His idea is to practice evolutionary medicine.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:38 PM

67 ng/ml is too high. In fact, it's on the very upper end of what is physiologically possible through simple sun exposure. Why would you ever want your serum level higher than what your body could do (in the tropics!) on its own. Very un-paleo and unwise. If Dr. K disagrees, he or she is simply wrong

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:48 PM

You might be confusing your units: 1ng/ml = 2.5nmol/L, with the result that 67ng/ml = 167.5 nmol/L.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on May 15, 2011
at 12:59 AM

@jay -- watch the tone of your language. thanks in advance.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 16, 2011
at 03:54 PM

sorry I was a bit rude... 67ng/ml is high enough already, and if you don't trust me, I hope you do very thorough research and don't just stop at the first expert-seeming person who tells you more is better. For what it's worth, I don't even think the vit D council recommends levels that high (I think they rec 40-60).

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 14, 2011
at 09:06 PM

Jay - On my blood test results it gives a range for Vitamin D deficiency of less than 20 ng/ml, Sufficient Level 30-80 ng/ml and Possible Toxicity as Greater than 80 ng/ml. So according to you, the labs range listed is wrong as well as Dr. K and all of the other doctors and researchers who study Vitamin D levels in humans and what is recommended. Also, I am skeptical, I do my own research as well and do what I feel is best for me.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 05:23 PM

I use Vit D3 5000IU a day from this product http://www.swansonvitamins.com/NWF391/ItemDetail?n=0 My level is in the mid 80s ng/mL This product uses olive oil as the carrier instead of soybean oil that is used by other products.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on May 16, 2011
at 10:57 PM

I do appreciate your recommendation and I will look more into it and in the meantime I've cut my supplement in half. I apologize for seeming hostile, that wasn't my intention. I supplement it because I am not always out for 45-60 min per day, I shoot for that but sometimes it doesn't happen. I also am wearing more clothing than is recommended for optimal sun exposure because I'm walking/jogging. So my logic is that it will all balance out.

0
Ede6029838b9d17195c84bab64a5d88d

(181)

on May 15, 2011
at 01:27 AM

I agree with Richard N, you can get required amounts of vit D just from food. Just 100g of herring gives 170% RDA. Traditional Inuit diet confirms this as well. I also do not believe that megadosing of concentrated vit D is beneficial for a healthy body, or any other supplements in such amounts.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 15, 2011
at 01:39 AM

Why don't you think it is beneficial?

Ede6029838b9d17195c84bab64a5d88d

(181)

on May 15, 2011
at 05:15 PM

I could not find convincing evidence that extra vit D is beneficial when looking at others experiences. Personal experience appears to confirm it. I used to regularly take it for long time but I could not see or feel any difference, so I stopped. Instead I regularly eat raw herring or mackerel (sashimi). I feel no different than when taking it. Also, I think such concentrated amounts were never intended by nature and it is hard to fool nature. I guess if all you eat is canned food than I think supplementation would be helpful. Otherwise it is a waste of money. Just my opinion.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 15, 2011
at 01:49 PM

aaa: would you explain why supplementation of VitD3 is undesirable? I would like to avoid wasting cash/health(not necessarily in that order) on pills.

-1
3c997ffae3db9464325b96979346d9e9

on May 14, 2011
at 05:44 PM

Our ancestors didn't take pills. A diet with plenty of vitamin D is not hard to accomplish. Pastured organ meats like liver, fat from grass fed animals who live outside (lard is a very good source of vitamin D), pastured egg yolks, fish liver oil, shellfish, oily fish, butter, cream. Sunlight is not a reliable way of getting vitamin D.

3c997ffae3db9464325b96979346d9e9

(1290)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:18 PM

There are only certain times of the year and hours of the day that sun exposure will offer vitamin D potential and that will vary as to where you are on the globe. This species evolved and thrived without pills.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:37 PM

Richard, you didn't answer if you have ever had your D3 level checked.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 14, 2011
at 07:06 PM

Do you have any data on duck/goose livers? I didn't assume that wild animals will be lean, merely that beef/lamb/chicke/pork livers are very lean. Why does vitamin A come into this? Ex hypothesi, we got those fat soluble nutrients solely from ingesting fat, whereas vitamin D largely from the sun, rather than only from other animals (who got all their vitamin D from the sun). Plus the vitamin A increases vitamin D needs, so getting adequate vitamin D by eating CLO for all our fat needs (~10,000IU) wouldn't suffice.

3c997ffae3db9464325b96979346d9e9

(1290)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:41 PM

You're right about beef liver not having mush vitamin D but duck, chicken and goose livers do. It's the animal fat where the vitamin D will be and it's not accurate to assume as many here do that wild meat is lean by definition. If diet did not provide adequate amounts of the fat soluble vitamins then how was the all important vitamin A obtained? The same nutritious foods listed contain the vitamin A and K and other nutrients too.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:27 PM

I'm not aware that pastured meat (esp. lean meat like liver) contains much vitamin D. I've heard that lard does, but not seen any reliable figures (ditto for dairy fat, eggs). If I were to eat sardines exclusively I'd still get less vitamin D than I can make in 5-10 minutes outside (in the UK) at the moment.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:12 PM

But our caveman ancestors ran around naked all day and and made Vit D. California lifeguards measure 135-150ng/ml serum after a season working. The Vit D Council has measured Vit D3 after 30 min half naked full sun..15 min each side of body...makes 10000 to 20000IU. The same council wants people to be at 60ng/ml serum D3 and Dr K on PH wants his patients at 70 to 100ng/ml. And Dr Tourgeman, a practicing Nephrologist in Fort Lauderdale, Fl has stated on his Nephropal blog that almost all of his patients are deficient in D3 dispite living in Fl. Have you ever checked your serum Vit D3 level?

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:41 PM

And if we are out, we cover up because we have been taught to be sunphopic. Richard, you did not answer about your serum D3 level. Having lived in Sausalito, I am sure most if not all residents of SF county and Marin County are D3 deficient due to lack of sun a great many days of the year.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 14, 2011
at 07:02 PM

Further to the food contnent of vit.D issue: Do you guys have quantities per item here: Liver, Butter, egg yolk, lard? I have also been convinced that most of these sources(especially liver, albeit beef) have insignificant amounts. BTW: where can one obtain lard that does not contain BHT/BHA?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 14, 2011
at 06:30 PM

I'm not aware that pastured meat (esp. lean meat like liver) contains much vitamin D. I've heard that lard does, but not seen any reliable figures (ditto for dairy fat, eggs). If I were to eat sardines exclusively I'd still get less vitamin D than I can make in 5-10 minutes outside (in the UK) at the moment. I agree that you can't get vitamin D from the sun here 6 months of the year, but we still largely evolved where we could and did. Also our european ancestors would have spent those 6 months mostly outside, whereas we often spend almost all of daylight inside.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on May 14, 2011
at 07:05 PM

Do you have any data on duck/goose livers? I didn't assume that wild animals will be lean, merely that beef/lamb/chicke/pork livers are very lean. Why does vitamin A come into this? Ex hypothesi, we got those fat soluble nutrients solely from ingesting fat, whereas vitamin D largely from the sun, rather than only from other animals (who got all *their* vitamin D from the sun).

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