2

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K2 Menatetrenone Recommendations

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 21, 2010 at 3:46 AM

I've been looking for an answer to this for a while. Does anyone know what the accepted dosage recommendation for K2 (menatetrenone) is? Most of what I find is between 90 and 200mcg, and there's a Carlson Labs product containing 5mg ($44.75 @ vitacost.com!). Is the 5mg one overkill? Can anyone recommend a good menatetrenone supplement w/a better bang/buck ratio?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:17 AM

You're confusing K-2 MK4 with K-2 MK7. They have different dose levels. 5mg is MK4. 200mcg is MK7. Go with either MK4 or MK7 but not both. If I were doing MK4, I would start at 5mg every other day and slowly built it up to 5mg daily and see how you feel. Never start anything cold turkey.

04293f705870e1837b8670d3c1cd5f67

(2261)

on September 13, 2010
at 03:53 AM

Yes, real food is one answer.

F0978a2a1c37d2a3d4ec6344c0c4ff82

(2213)

on February 23, 2010
at 01:52 PM

Thanks, John. I must have an older bottle. I can't find the number of servings on it anywhere. I do notice now though that it says 1 drop = 1mg = 1250% of the RDA for Vitamin K.

95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on February 23, 2010
at 01:19 AM

I have one of those Thorne bottles right here... the label says that it contains 1200 1-drop servings.

F0978a2a1c37d2a3d4ec6344c0c4ff82

(2213)

on February 22, 2010
at 08:51 AM

Just to be clear, what Stephan wrote in the comments of his K2 article I linked above was: "I can't support any supplement that has more than 1 mg K2 in it. That's about the upper limit of what you can get from food. Any more than that and you're taking pharmacological doses and the long-term effects are unknown." In a later comment in the same article he writes: "The K2 MK-4 is about the cheapest supplement you can buy, per dose. One of those bottles will last you over a year easily, if you take a normal amount (500 micrograms or less a day)."

6b73f0c4b971e2dde7147920e329fe7f

(2041)

on February 22, 2010
at 05:32 AM

Serum half-life. Fat soluble vitamins partition to lipids.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on February 22, 2010
at 04:30 AM

Keto, I believe that Stephan recommended a dose of 1mg per day in one of his K2 posts, but he had no scientific basis for the recommendation.

C8debab64e0631590cb54b7db86f08e5

(296)

on February 22, 2010
at 03:41 AM

Incorrect. Mk-4 has a serum half life of a few hours. mk-7 has a half life of 3 days, so it is easier to keep a constant serum level of mk-7. That said, it is not clear that you need to keep a constant level of k2 in the first place. I use 90 mcg of mk-7 once every three days, which puts me above the top quartile Rotterdam study. I too suspect that mk-4 is the superior form but there is so little science on it yet and the dosages that are available are significantly higher than what you could get from food. For those reasons, I feel they involved unacceptable risk.

C8debab64e0631590cb54b7db86f08e5

(296)

on February 22, 2010
at 03:40 AM

Incorrect. Mk-4 has a serum half life of a few hours. mk-7 has a half life of 3 days, so it is easier to keep a constant serum level of mk-7. That said, it is not clear that you need to keep a constant level of k2 in the first place. I use 90 mcg of mk-7 once quartile Rotterdam study. I too suspect that mk-4 is the superior form but there is so little science on it yet and the dosages that are available are significantly higher than what you coudl get from food. For those reasons, I feel they involved unacceptable risk.

6b73f0c4b971e2dde7147920e329fe7f

(2041)

on February 21, 2010
at 07:34 AM

I only got 60 caps, so it was like 14 at a brick and mortar Vitamin Shoppe.

6b73f0c4b971e2dde7147920e329fe7f

(2041)

on February 21, 2010
at 07:33 AM

I got it at a mortar and brick Vitamin Shoppe.

6b73f0c4b971e2dde7147920e329fe7f

(2041)

on February 21, 2010
at 07:25 AM

I got it at mortar and brick Vitamin Shoppe. http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=VS-2561

C8ff2dd43450e3ab1b1d06b9baf3cb30

(98)

on February 21, 2010
at 04:45 AM

You know, I knew that K2 was fat soluble, but I never thought of if like that. I'd like to know where you got it if it was cheaper. I know it's 69 off of Carlson's site, I was thinking the vitacost price was a deal.

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11 Answers

3
E17bfb42f4d96ecc8ad596bfd2959e99

on November 14, 2011
at 03:25 PM

Thorne Research's K2 is the only cost-effective MK4 supplement I know of. $60 for what appears to be 1200 1mg drops. 1 mg/day is far more than almost everyone gets from their diet (typical intakes are on the level of a few dozen MICROgrams per day) but as someone else pointed out, there isn't a known toxicity and dosages in the 15-45mg range have shown benefits for osteoporosis.

2
F0978a2a1c37d2a3d4ec6344c0c4ff82

on February 21, 2010
at 08:37 AM

I take the same Thorne Research drops that Stephan Guyenet mentions in his Vitamin K2 article which are around $50 per bottle but I take 3 drops per day and the bottle lasts months.

Your question about "accepted dosage" is tricky to answer in that the RDA for Vitamin K is in the micrograms but many of the intervention studies, especially those dealing with osteoporosis, use dosages of up to 15 milligrams per day. There is no known toxicity for Vitamin K2 either (per Wikipedia's entry for Vitamin K) and no "Tolerable Upper Limit" (TUL) has been set. I suppose that if you are concerned with over-dosing you could take one drop (one drop = 1 milligram) per day of the Thorne product in which case the bottle will probably last 6 months and your K2 needs would be covered for about $8 per month.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on February 22, 2010
at 04:30 AM

Keto, I believe that Stephan recommended a dose of 1mg per day in one of his K2 posts, but he had no scientific basis for the recommendation.

95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on February 23, 2010
at 01:19 AM

I have one of those Thorne bottles right here... the label says that it contains 1200 1-drop servings.

F0978a2a1c37d2a3d4ec6344c0c4ff82

(2213)

on February 23, 2010
at 01:52 PM

Thanks, John. I must have an older bottle. I can't find the number of servings on it anywhere. I do notice now though that it says 1 drop = 1mg = 1250% of the RDA for Vitamin K.

F0978a2a1c37d2a3d4ec6344c0c4ff82

(2213)

on February 22, 2010
at 08:51 AM

Just to be clear, what Stephan wrote in the comments of his K2 article I linked above was: "I can't support any supplement that has more than 1 mg K2 in it. That's about the upper limit of what you can get from food. Any more than that and you're taking pharmacological doses and the long-term effects are unknown." In a later comment in the same article he writes: "The K2 MK-4 is about the cheapest supplement you can buy, per dose. One of those bottles will last you over a year easily, if you take a normal amount (500 micrograms or less a day)."

1
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on September 13, 2010
at 03:33 AM

I'm a big fan of Beef, Egg Yolks, Hard Cheese and butter...

Grassfed/pastured of course.

04293f705870e1837b8670d3c1cd5f67

(2261)

on September 13, 2010
at 03:53 AM

Yes, real food is one answer.

1
92d44e7d67e64563562431780c16242c

on September 12, 2010
at 08:27 PM

Research showing improved bone mineralization and increased density were based on studies ranging from 15 mg to 45 mg. Yes, it's fat soluble, but unlike other fat solubles, it's not retained.

1
6b73f0c4b971e2dde7147920e329fe7f

(2041)

on February 21, 2010
at 04:15 AM

I take the Carlson 5mg caps once a week. K is a persistent, fat-soluble vitamin, so I figure I probably maintain high levels doing this. I'm pretty sure I paid considerably less than $44.75, though.

6b73f0c4b971e2dde7147920e329fe7f

(2041)

on February 21, 2010
at 07:25 AM

I got it at mortar and brick Vitamin Shoppe. http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=VS-2561

6b73f0c4b971e2dde7147920e329fe7f

(2041)

on February 21, 2010
at 07:34 AM

I only got 60 caps, so it was like 14 at a brick and mortar Vitamin Shoppe.

C8debab64e0631590cb54b7db86f08e5

(296)

on February 22, 2010
at 03:41 AM

Incorrect. Mk-4 has a serum half life of a few hours. mk-7 has a half life of 3 days, so it is easier to keep a constant serum level of mk-7. That said, it is not clear that you need to keep a constant level of k2 in the first place. I use 90 mcg of mk-7 once every three days, which puts me above the top quartile Rotterdam study. I too suspect that mk-4 is the superior form but there is so little science on it yet and the dosages that are available are significantly higher than what you could get from food. For those reasons, I feel they involved unacceptable risk.

6b73f0c4b971e2dde7147920e329fe7f

(2041)

on February 21, 2010
at 07:33 AM

I got it at a mortar and brick Vitamin Shoppe.

6b73f0c4b971e2dde7147920e329fe7f

(2041)

on February 22, 2010
at 05:32 AM

Serum half-life. Fat soluble vitamins partition to lipids.

C8debab64e0631590cb54b7db86f08e5

(296)

on February 22, 2010
at 03:40 AM

Incorrect. Mk-4 has a serum half life of a few hours. mk-7 has a half life of 3 days, so it is easier to keep a constant serum level of mk-7. That said, it is not clear that you need to keep a constant level of k2 in the first place. I use 90 mcg of mk-7 once quartile Rotterdam study. I too suspect that mk-4 is the superior form but there is so little science on it yet and the dosages that are available are significantly higher than what you coudl get from food. For those reasons, I feel they involved unacceptable risk.

C8ff2dd43450e3ab1b1d06b9baf3cb30

(98)

on February 21, 2010
at 04:45 AM

You know, I knew that K2 was fat soluble, but I never thought of if like that. I'd like to know where you got it if it was cheaper. I know it's 69 off of Carlson's site, I was thinking the vitacost price was a deal.

0
A01e81cf35160a1e84c93dc2c7430071

on August 09, 2013
at 03:46 AM

So why NOt take both. Not trying to be thick.... just new to this. Benefits of mk4 and mk7? Sounds like you'd have strong bones AND cleaned out arteries...

0
9030aa8a45833d31d30df092c6f554be

on March 30, 2013
at 02:58 PM

In the book "Vitamin K2 and the calcium paradox", summarized in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYMExQNosTQ the book author Kate Rheaume-Bleue explains that there are two types of vit K, namely K1 and K2. K1 has to do with blood clotting and no other function, it recycles in the body/is used again and again and we get it easily from veggies. K2 is not made from K1 in the body, that is an old misconception, it has to come from food or supplement, it is used for bone and tooth health, it does not recycle and most ppl have a deficiency!!! In the past K2 was found in grass fed beef, milk and cheese but now cows are fed grains and the meat and milk lack K2 (unless you are neighbor with a farmer who does have grass fed cows and nutrient rich grass, not depleted land)! There are two sources of K2: fermented soy (MK7 menaquinone) and MK4 menatetrenone which is derived from tobacco plant. Somebody here mentioned a research study where patients got 45 mg of K2 for osteoporosis. I read about the study also (sorry, didn't save the link). Amazon sells Carlson brand, MK4, 5 mg strength, 60 capsules for $15 (March 2013). MK7 (soy) is in most supplements (caps, tabs, liquid and sublingual). To my knowledge soy of any kind is not recommended for patients with estrogen positive breast cancer diagnosis b/c soy contains phytoestrogens/plant estrogens. Also most soy is genetically modified, leading to disease and death thanks to Monsanto company which thinks it is okay to play God and genetically modify anything and everything (no, I am not religious, I only want to survive)!

0
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 01, 2013
at 02:56 PM

I take the Thorne K2 drops now because I figured 1mg a day + the cost savings was good. I used to take the 5mg you mentioned. It is a good product and the stuff is animal derived, I believe, while the Thorne stuff is made in a lab. I am not sure I am getting quite the same efficacy, but it isn't a really fair comparison because I am taking a lower dosage of the Thorne stuff and I don't even remember to take it every day anymore. I may return to Carlsons at some point, especially if the idea of saving money stops being as pertinent as it seems to be now.

0
A9a5a0fe0afce164f7a5bdc672510f8f

on February 01, 2013
at 01:10 PM

There are three major forms of “vitamin K.” Phylloquinone (vitamin K1) is produced by plants, and is primarily used in humans and other mammals in the liver to support blood clotting. A wide range of “menaquinones” are produced by different organisms; collectively, these are termed “Vitamin K2.” Bacteria primarily produce a menaquinone called MK-7. Most supplements labeled “vitamin K2” or “menaquinone” contain this form. But mammals synthesize a different menaquinone, known as “Menatetrenone” or MK-4, which is concentrated in the brain, bone, and the vasculature.

It has long been suspected that humans and other mammals produce this form of vitamin K for specialized functions not shared by phylloquinone or bacterial menaquinone. The first such function was shown to be a role in bone health. After extensive preclinical studies, Menatetrenone (and not other forms of vitamin K) is now used as a “drug” against osteoporosis in Japan. These studies show that Menatetrenone has unique bone-shielding effects which are independent of its role in gamma-carboxylation of proteins.

For several years now, evidence has ac***ulated to show that Menatetrenone also plays a specific role in cardiovascular health, by preventing the calcification of the arteries – a role not shared by other forms of vitamin K. This evidence is reviewed below. This latest study in experimental animals confirms these previous findings, and suggests some possible mechanisms underlying Menatetrenone’s unique heart-healthy powers.

J Vasc Res. 2003 [Epub ahead of print]. Epub 2003 Dec 03.

0
0e461969835b1633a621a72f52c42711

on June 04, 2012
at 10:38 PM

google menatetrenone study Japan. recoomened 15mg 3x daily with meals. doing it for several years now. feel fine.

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