16

votes

Supplement that changed the world for you?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 15, 2012 at 3:23 AM

Supplementing is a controversial topic in paleo circles. On one hand a lot of people agree on D vitamin supplementation, on the other hand there is danger of overdose if done incorrectly - e.g. vitamin A or copper.

Then, there is such element as magnesium, which seems to be of vital importance yet present mostly in questionable sources (grains, nuts, spinach with oxalate). Looks like this one must be supplemented for someone doing strict paleo or low carb?

There are a lot of topics, discussing supplementation at this forum, but they just increased my confusion. That's why I decided to create "yet another supplementation topic", but with a little twist:

Can you please describe your own experience of adding particular supplement and seeing drastic difference (preferably positive :) It would also be useful to see some of your history, diet habits, health status.

Thank you in advance for sharing, this might be very useful for somebody struggling through the diet because of lack of one essential mineral or vitamin.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on August 23, 2012
at 06:43 AM

Selenium has been shown to counteract the mercury toxicity problem associated with eating fish; I live in Japan and eat A LOT of sashimi :)

Medium avatar

(2417)

on August 23, 2012
at 06:42 AM

Um, yes, it does...and when meat makes it acidic, your body immediately leeches calcium from bones and circulates it in the blood to make the PH balanced. That's why I used to get so much calcium deposited on the backs of the front-bottom teeth by that little gland, any why those deposits stopped completely when I started to take the K-Bicarb daily; it serves the same purpose so the body doesn't have to do the calcium leeching maneuver.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on August 20, 2012
at 11:57 PM

what are you Vit D levels David?

2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on August 19, 2012
at 11:22 PM

A diet, that is high in vitamin D3 without enough vitamin A and K2 will cause you to deposit calcium where you don't want it...like your kidneys (stones) and arteries....this is not to mention that hard training and a high protein diet causes you to use more vitmain A. Vitamin A also is required for testosterone production. http://www.westonaprice.org/mens-health/vitamin-a-forgotten-bodybuilding-nutrient http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2009/04/tufts-university-confirms-that-vitamin.html

94480caec9fbbaacc386d86a45efa720

(1007)

on August 18, 2012
at 08:54 PM

I've been taking a housebrand from vitacost.com but I don't think it has the reputation that Primal Defense has. I may try PD again at some point since I've been GF for years. My celiac sister switched back to it after some time off and she was ok with it. It could be something besides the grasses too, who knows?

E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on August 18, 2012
at 04:14 PM

Congratulations on finding a way to recover!

E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on August 18, 2012
at 04:10 PM

Hmmm I'm so curious now to see if my exercise-induced asthma clears when my levels go up! Very interesting. I'm in Vail, CO and got a TON of sun this past winter so thought my level would be good. It was not awful but not optimal (38). I've read that folks w/autoimmunity need to be around 80. Also our angle here apparently sucks for making D, which I thought was hogwash but now believe it. So even though I get lots of sun here, will likely have to keep supplementing.

E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on August 18, 2012
at 04:06 PM

I don't, I know others that haven't, and the bottle says it's gluten-free... that being said, each body is different and each sensitivity is different. Perhaps you react to the grasses despite the lack of gluten? Or one of the strains? Or maybe there really is trace amounts from cc or within the grass itself. I was def skeptical when I first took it but desperate enough to try it. Too bad it hurt your tummy but good that you know it does and can stay away from it. Have you found another probiotic you like? Sometimes I think I should switch to something else for more variety, etc

94480caec9fbbaacc386d86a45efa720

(1007)

on August 18, 2012
at 02:02 PM

Lynn, I used to use Primal Defense and it hurt my stomach. I'm celiac too and thought maybe it was the barley grass and oat grass possibly being a little cc'd. You don't get any symptoms from it?

E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on August 18, 2012
at 12:16 AM

I rely on the supplements... I haven't gotten real serious about the fermented veggies, though I ought to give them a shot.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 17, 2012
at 11:23 AM

I use coconut oil every day. Bulletproof coffee and even bulletproof tea. :) Indeed, the MCT half of it doesn't require bile and it turns to ketones very quickly.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 17, 2012
at 01:49 AM

animaleater, great list, thanks! Why did you decide to supplement Selenium? Was there noticeable effect?

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 17, 2012
at 01:43 AM

Thanks Lynn, probiotics is a good point. Do fermented vegetables help you, or you still rely on supplements?

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 17, 2012
at 01:35 AM

I heard that recommended level is around 50 but you've seen improvement at above 80, very interesting, thank you Dragonfly.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 17, 2012
at 01:02 AM

Ray, did you try coconut oil? I heard it doesn't need bile for digestion. Wonder what is your opinion on that.

430a1d1576ddad4aeac00697e9388fd1

(48)

on August 16, 2012
at 06:02 PM

Had been looking into the Iodoral supplementation when my Hormone Doc handed me a bottle after I was still complaining of brain fog, low energy.Dr. Brownstein book "Iodine, why you need it, why you can't live without it". If the RDA good for you, fine. This "safety" margin is way off.It has been of huge benefit to me after frustrated by sluggish thryoid. Iodine is feared by the mainstream. Was once a household & medical staple. Will help detox.Competes positively for cell receptors attaching with halides...chloride, fluoride, bromide; extra sea salt and lots of water help to flush them out.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 16, 2012
at 03:11 PM

Also, SoloX's creatine article might be the best (read: most heavily referenced and accurate) on the web. A key takeaway is that forms other than micronized monohydrate are dumb.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on August 16, 2012
at 11:54 AM

Although I think mine is genetic because my mom suffers horribly from it also and has been on medication for years.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on August 16, 2012
at 11:53 AM

Thanks Daz, I'll ask for a panel at my next dr's appt. GOod to know.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 16, 2012
at 10:30 AM

Oh, I'm fine now, but without digestive enzymes, I can't digest much fats/proteins properly. Yeah, paleo made a huge difference in my quality of life. There seems to be a correlation between celiac, gall bladder removal - I didn't get tested, but looking back at all the other symptoms I've had, I'm convinced that I had celiac as well and just wasn't aware of it.

Ef26f888ed248de197c37a4cb04ef4a7

(584)

on August 16, 2012
at 08:59 AM

Same. I still take d3 in winter. I just didn't notice any benefits from raising my levels unfortunately.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:53 AM

Carnitine is great. I too never see results with d3, but when I suntan I get all the benefits.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:44 AM

Um. Blood doesn't become acidic eating a lot of meat.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:43 AM

How much of it do u take?

Medium avatar

(2417)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:04 AM

I take the carlson's albion labs copper chelate, and also the same zinc. i sometimes skip the zinc, or copper, depending on what im eating as in meat or liver. dosewise, i take one pill. ill have to look on the back of the carlson's bottle and see how many mg that is. or you could look that up on iherb.com. im pretty anally precise on most things, but as the data is so all over the board on that ratio, i just feel it out. i think D, fish oil, mag, and potassium bicarb have helped the most.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 16, 2012
at 02:50 AM

5htp has been drastic for me, and still is. I get the one-week placebo effect on a lot of other supplements though, I'll give you that.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 16, 2012
at 01:49 AM

I just don't understand how doctors get away with such things for so long. Honestly, it seems that people would do better without them (emergency doctors are exception of course). Wish you all the best raydawg, my mom has gallbladder removed too and seems to be doing great with paleo.

6498694060d879a7960b35913539b75f

(1307)

on August 16, 2012
at 01:35 AM

Thanks for reminding me to start taking my Natural Calm again.

Da12b342d4959f5bd776c0f00b072a6c

(311)

on August 15, 2012
at 11:56 PM

Thanks, but my problems no longer exist although I imagine my bone density is still not what it should be. Must get it tested some day. I have just started supplementing with D3 as my winter mid-day sunning in a bikini may not be enough given my age.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 15, 2012
at 11:16 PM

hi gydle, iron deficiency is another cause of RLS. if you haven't already, it may be worth testing your iron levels, get a full iron panel, do not rely on ferritin alone. further reading; http://www.aafp.org/afp/2000/0701/p108.html & http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15854860 (full report: http://www.idpas.org/pdf/4176.pdf). good luck

91882203467f64f68f25f58f1caeee68

(1017)

on August 15, 2012
at 11:09 PM

What problems did the Vit A solve?

Ecb90bbbd5a15868b2592d517a4a5e82

(280)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:30 PM

Except in women creatine often causes a lot of water retention. Cankles. No thanks.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:32 PM

i agree with the creatine all the way. no downsides, costs next to nothing. Everyone should be on this.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:31 PM

yeah man creatine. so cheap, so effective.

785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:09 PM

Could not disagree with you more on Vitamin D, that is a highly essential and critical one.

785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:09 PM

You may also want to look into foam rolling, especially your cervical area.

785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:07 PM

PQQ: http://examine.com/supplements/Pyrroloquinoline+quinone/ I try to get it via fatty fish sources.

785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on August 15, 2012
at 12:50 PM

Unless you are eating 6+ eggs/day, then no, not enough choline. The amount of meat needed for creatine is also extremely high.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 12:27 PM

I am also guessing chelated copper is more bioavailable than even the zinc and iron in my meat which makes my general caution more complex...but yeah, be interesting to see what someone else on paleo takes dose wise..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 12:23 PM

I hear rations of 8:1 or 10:1 for zinc to copper for men, which is easy enough to work out, but then I am trying to factor in the high iron level in my diet and if that makes a difference. Probably just pop one tommorow, but long term id love to have some rough math to work out how much I need. (Though I guess a tiny excess would get excreted)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 12:18 PM

How much copper do you take BTW?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 15, 2012
at 10:14 AM

Oh yes, melatonin has made a huge difference for me (and my circadian rhythm disorder), but since I get it prescribed for a particular disorder I don't consider it a "supplement". 5htp also seems to help sleep, though not in anything like as drastic a way.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 15, 2012
at 10:11 AM

Definitely creatine. I've not noticed any striking changes from any other supplementation (for health, not muscle building), but creatine quickly improves my workouts+physique.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:50 AM

^ one egg has between 35 and 60mcgs. A glass of raw milk as about 50mcg. Theres variable trace amounts in everything, 10-30mcgs per 100grams in meat, similar in vegetables. Seafood has even more, often over 100mcg per 100 grams. The rda is 150mcg per day (with a safety margin of about 20% from what I read). You dont need more than what you can get from a varied healthy diet IMO. I am personally unsure of why someone would supplement iodine, but I am sure your seafood is plenty.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:49 AM

^ one egg has between 35 and 60mcgs. A glass of raw milk as about 50mcg. Theres variable trace amounts in everything, 10-30mcgs per 100grams in meat, similar in vegetables. (with a safety margin of about 20% from what I read). Seafood has even more, often over 100mcg per 100 grams. The rda is 150mcg per day. I am personally unsure of why someone would supplement iodine, but I am sure your seafood is plenty.

60af23519906aa54b742ffc17477c3d3

(1186)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:15 AM

Real Thing: What is PQQ???

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:19 AM

Thanks dingo25, I eat seafood couple days a week plus shellfish (raw oysters) weekly. Suspect my iodine intake should be good enough already. Do you think it might be not sufficient?

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:03 AM

Thank you SoloX, vitamin d and fish oil go without question, as well as sleep. Choline and creatine supplementation sounds interesting, but it is present in animal products so I suspect paleo dieters (especially ones who eat organ meats) already consume enough of it. Did it make difference in how you feel?

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20 Answers

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1
Ef26f888ed248de197c37a4cb04ef4a7

on August 15, 2012
at 09:56 AM

I have tried so many supplements. Probably half of them have given me a huge boost but it always tends to wear off after a week so it's probably just placebo effect. The best supplements I have tried are probably carnitine for energy and melatonin for sleep. Iodine has worked ok but I only just started it so i'm still a bit skeptical as to whether or not the increased energy will last or not.

In my opinion I have found these to be vastly overrated. Vitamin D, MSM, chrondroiton, grapefruit seed extract, 5htp, coq10

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 15, 2012
at 10:14 AM

Oh yes, melatonin has made a huge difference for me (and my circadian rhythm disorder), but since I get it prescribed for a particular disorder I don't consider it a "supplement". 5htp also seems to help sleep, though not in anything like as drastic a way.

785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:09 PM

Could not disagree with you more on Vitamin D, that is a highly essential and critical one.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 16, 2012
at 02:50 AM

5htp has been drastic for me, and still is. I get the one-week placebo effect on a lot of other supplements though, I'll give you that.

Ef26f888ed248de197c37a4cb04ef4a7

(584)

on August 16, 2012
at 08:59 AM

Same. I still take d3 in winter. I just didn't notice any benefits from raising my levels unfortunately.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:53 AM

Carnitine is great. I too never see results with d3, but when I suntan I get all the benefits.

5
785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on August 15, 2012
at 05:21 AM

A lot of supplements are useful, but provided one follows a paleo diet rich in a bevy of meats, eggs (choline), and colorful veggies, it really just comes down to:

  • Vitamin D - contrary to popular belief, it isn't simply about sunlight exposure. Pollutants, skin covered, sunscreen, etc renders most of it moot. 5000 UI is a nice dosage
  • Fish Oil - while paleo diet (grass-fed beef) helps with the n3:n6 ratio, pollutants have done a great job skewing it in ugly ways.

On top of that, fun ones that can be useful are:

  • A nootropic - eggs are rich in choline (200mg), but you need to be eating 5+ eggs a day to really feel it.
  • Creatine - it works. Considering saturation, it's near impossible to eat enough meat every single day to keep yourself saturated
  • Sleep - it's a cop out. But sleep helps with so many things it's a shame people do not get more of it (see how important sleep is)

Lastly, just look them up at http://Examine.com

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:32 PM

i agree with the creatine all the way. no downsides, costs next to nothing. Everyone should be on this.

785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on August 15, 2012
at 12:50 PM

Unless you are eating 6+ eggs/day, then no, not enough choline. The amount of meat needed for creatine is also extremely high.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 15, 2012
at 10:11 AM

Definitely creatine. I've not noticed any striking changes from any other supplementation (for health, not muscle building), but creatine quickly improves my workouts+physique.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:03 AM

Thank you SoloX, vitamin d and fish oil go without question, as well as sleep. Choline and creatine supplementation sounds interesting, but it is present in animal products so I suspect paleo dieters (especially ones who eat organ meats) already consume enough of it. Did it make difference in how you feel?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 16, 2012
at 03:11 PM

Also, SoloX's creatine article might be the best (read: most heavily referenced and accurate) on the web. A key takeaway is that forms other than micronized monohydrate are dumb.

3
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 15, 2012
at 04:01 PM

D3 changed my life--seriously!

Once I got my blood level above 80 ng/ml (tested at 91 ng/ml), my lifelong asthma disappeared, including exercise-induced asthma. I maintained my supplementation of 8,000 IUs for over 18 months and NO asthma symptoms! We were living in the Pac NW at the time, so minimal sun available.

We now live in Santa Fe, NM, so I dropped my supplementation for several months during the spring and made sure to get an hour or so of noontime sun in a bikini every day. My blood level dropped to 57 ng/ml and my asthma symptoms came back. (I am 49 and dark-complected, so it is harder for me to make D3 from sun exposure compared to someone more fair & younger.)

Needless to say, I am back on my supplements and my asthma symptoms are nearly gone after 3 weeks. I will supplement at 8,000 IUs until my symptoms are totally gone, then drop to 6,000 IUs and see if I can maintain at that level. I will re-test in 3-4 months.

My fave supplement is Carlson's Solar D Gems. They come in 2,000 & 4,000 IU gel caps and are very cheap on iHerb.com

I get plenty of A & K from my diet & supplement 200-400 mg of Magnesium Citrate at night.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 17, 2012
at 01:35 AM

I heard that recommended level is around 50 but you've seen improvement at above 80, very interesting, thank you Dragonfly.

E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on August 18, 2012
at 04:10 PM

Hmmm I'm so curious now to see if my exercise-induced asthma clears when my levels go up! Very interesting. I'm in Vail, CO and got a TON of sun this past winter so thought my level would be good. It was not awful but not optimal (38). I've read that folks w/autoimmunity need to be around 80. Also our angle here apparently sucks for making D, which I thought was hogwash but now believe it. So even though I get lots of sun here, will likely have to keep supplementing.

3
Da12b342d4959f5bd776c0f00b072a6c

on August 15, 2012
at 06:01 AM

Started a Fish oil supplement after some internet research to address a frozen shoulder a few years ago. I had pain and very restricted range of motion. I could not lift my arm above shoulder level and had difficulty dressing. this got slowly better over a matter of weeks. Medical opinion seemed not to know the cause and that it may take a year or so to go away.

My diet was always extremely clean and healthy, although it included a small amount of bread and vegetable oil in the form of whole egg mayo on my salad. I avoided the sun like the plague and now in hindsight imagine I have had low vitamin D levels all along and was not utilising calcium properly.

This probably led to two incidents where I was imobilised with neck pain and another where I was crippled with back pain for a few weeks after picking up my cat. Rest and anti-inflammatories were prescribed and surgery recommended for my neck which I declined.

From my own research I now understand the importance of vitamin D and have add a little mid-day sunshine into my life. Now in my late 60???s and have recently retired so this is now possible otherwise I would supplement.

I have no issues with any real foods although over the years I have become more sensitive to additives and preservatives. Started using coconut oil and not being fearful of saturated fat about 6 months ago.

Here is a link to a brilliant lecture on the sun and its affects on us. It is a complex issue and not well understood by most people:

http://www.ucsd.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=15770

Associated slide show presentation can be viewed at:

http://www.grassrootshealth.org/_download/Gorham_Skin_Cancer_Sunscreen_Dilemma120208.pdf

785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:09 PM

You may also want to look into foam rolling, especially your cervical area.

Da12b342d4959f5bd776c0f00b072a6c

(311)

on August 15, 2012
at 11:56 PM

Thanks, but my problems no longer exist although I imagine my bone density is still not what it should be. Must get it tested some day. I have just started supplementing with D3 as my winter mid-day sunning in a bikini may not be enough given my age.

2
77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:43 PM

METHYLCOBALAMIN before bed. Makes your metabolism roar and the fat drops off noticeably more on the nights I take it, even when my carbs are high that night.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:43 AM

How much of it do u take?

2
E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:25 PM

This is such an easy question for me to answer because my results were so apparent: Primal Defense Ultra probiotics by Garden of Life.

Gluten intolerant, was eating a GF diet for many years then went through a time of extreme stress (father died, job stress, etc) and fell off the wagon a few times. Got militant about staying on my GF diet but started having IBS and other digestive issues, then basically had diarrhea for a year. Every damn day, it literally was sucking the life out of me. I wasn't thriving, for sure. Tried several probiotics and none of them ever made even a slight improvement in my situation, then one day I walked into a Sunflower Market in Boulder, Co and told them I was desperate and asked if they could recommend a probiotic based on my symptoms, and the girl handed me a bottle of Primal Defense Ultra. She liked it because it contains S. Boulardii and was shelf-stable. Well, only a couple of days taking this stuff and my IBS started relieving. It was such an apparent improvement I have never felt with any other supplement.

It didn't take me to optimal health on it's own, I ended up taking a prescription anti-fungal to kill candida and went primal, but it was integral to my healing journey and I still take a maintenance dose.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 17, 2012
at 01:43 AM

Thanks Lynn, probiotics is a good point. Do fermented vegetables help you, or you still rely on supplements?

E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on August 18, 2012
at 12:16 AM

I rely on the supplements... I haven't gotten real serious about the fermented veggies, though I ought to give them a shot.

94480caec9fbbaacc386d86a45efa720

(1007)

on August 18, 2012
at 02:02 PM

Lynn, I used to use Primal Defense and it hurt my stomach. I'm celiac too and thought maybe it was the barley grass and oat grass possibly being a little cc'd. You don't get any symptoms from it?

E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on August 18, 2012
at 04:06 PM

I don't, I know others that haven't, and the bottle says it's gluten-free... that being said, each body is different and each sensitivity is different. Perhaps you react to the grasses despite the lack of gluten? Or one of the strains? Or maybe there really is trace amounts from cc or within the grass itself. I was def skeptical when I first took it but desperate enough to try it. Too bad it hurt your tummy but good that you know it does and can stay away from it. Have you found another probiotic you like? Sometimes I think I should switch to something else for more variety, etc

94480caec9fbbaacc386d86a45efa720

(1007)

on August 18, 2012
at 08:54 PM

I've been taking a housebrand from vitacost.com but I don't think it has the reputation that Primal Defense has. I may try PD again at some point since I've been GF for years. My celiac sister switched back to it after some time off and she was ok with it. It could be something besides the grasses too, who knows?

2
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 08:08 AM

Only two for me is:

1) Magnesium- When I was anxious and had heartrate issues, it helped - short term. Just as a once in a while thing. It may be a non-issue when I get my zinc-copper ratio in balance long term tho, seeing as I eat foods with magnesium like spinach, chard, nuts. If I had more money, id probably drink evian regularly for the magnesium tho.

2) And a 2mg chelated copper supplement to balance out the high zinc:copper ratio in my high meat (HFLC) diet without needing to eat a load of liver each week.

Ill be picking it up tommorow, so I cant vouch for its effectiveness for awhile (yeah I know not strictly what the question asks, lol), but at least awareness of how a high zinc and iron diet effects your ratio has made me optimistic that in a beef liver free paleo diet, this is a good idea and may work for me to round out the issues. (seeing as other foods aint really high enough in copper, and low enough in zinc. Nuts are okay-ish, but even with regular nuts, I still think ill need 2-4mgs a week to keep my zinc to copper at the 10:1 needed for adult men. For women it would be harder to reach there 5:1 without regular liver or a supplement)

Other than that, it seems going on cron-o-meter, I can get everything from food, or from the sun. I guess I might try vitamin D in the winter on day.

But then ideally perhaps a light therapy dealo would probably be a more complete solution, seeing as the blue light triggers your cirdadian rythms, keeps away depression and such (and who knows what else full spectrum light does for us). Maybe just a portable sun of some kind, that I can take indoors. (If I am ever rich, I am so getting massive amounts of sunlight inlets in my house)

I guess calcium and magnesium might both fall into the slightly less easy to do like nature intended catergory given the lack in water, but I think a bit of almond milk, aged cheese, and other nuts/leafy greens in decent portions may compensate. Doable with food definately, but theres are nutritional catergories I think are important to keep an eye on.

And sodium and potassium intake is something else I watch diet wise on low carb paleo. Given I dont drink blood. Thankfully theres uniodised salt, and theres lots of paleo plant potassium foods. Again, doable with food, but if your low carb, these two are very important to make sure you get enough of.

One thing I do wonder about is q10's bioavailability. Seeing as thats an actual anti-oxidant (one that occurs both in the body and food), as opposed to probably toxic high dose polyphenols. I think if that was bioavailable at all, i might supplement with that in food style levels like I am planning on doing with the copper. (Pill pseudo-liver :P).

2
3cdc762b2ae30b4ca3529f011ccac174

on August 15, 2012
at 06:25 AM

B12 & rhodiola gave me a huge energy boost; PQQ increased the time I could lift heavy things. Good!

60af23519906aa54b742ffc17477c3d3

(1186)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:15 AM

Real Thing: What is PQQ???

785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:07 PM

PQQ: http://examine.com/supplements/Pyrroloquinoline+quinone/ I try to get it via fatty fish sources.

1
950efde057e2cc301543059b15f44374

(240)

on August 15, 2012
at 12:53 PM

D-ribose. Response seems to be all or none depending on person. Guess I'm D-ribose deficient somehow because it really does help me. Boosts workout tremendously, much quicker recovery, and just a general energy booster. Someone posted this helpful link on another PH question. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/may2008_D-Ribose-Energize-Your-Heart-Save-Your-Life_01.htm

1
Medium avatar

on August 15, 2012
at 09:46 AM

1) Potassium Bicarbonate, 10g/day. Gives me an extra 5g elemental K, and helps balance my alkaline/acid levels in my blood that would otherwise be acidic due to all the meat. Also made calcium deposits stop forming on the back of my teeth. Muscles feel better too.

2) Mag chelate. Awesome.

3) Vit D 10,000IU

4) Copper (or liver)

5) Fish Oil liquid

6) BCAA before training a la Leangains

7) Creatine

8) Sea salt

9) Selenium

10) Oh how could I have forgotten Probiotics!!! Dr. Ohhira's, Natto, Keffir, etc.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 12:18 PM

How much copper do you take BTW?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 12:27 PM

I am also guessing chelated copper is more bioavailable than even the zinc and iron in my meat which makes my general caution more complex...but yeah, be interesting to see what someone else on paleo takes dose wise..

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:31 PM

yeah man creatine. so cheap, so effective.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:44 AM

Um. Blood doesn't become acidic eating a lot of meat.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 12:23 PM

I hear rations of 8:1 or 10:1 for zinc to copper for men, which is easy enough to work out, but then I am trying to factor in the high iron level in my diet and if that makes a difference. Probably just pop one tommorow, but long term id love to have some rough math to work out how much I need. (Though I guess a tiny excess would get excreted)

Medium avatar

(2417)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:04 AM

I take the carlson's albion labs copper chelate, and also the same zinc. i sometimes skip the zinc, or copper, depending on what im eating as in meat or liver. dosewise, i take one pill. ill have to look on the back of the carlson's bottle and see how many mg that is. or you could look that up on iherb.com. im pretty anally precise on most things, but as the data is so all over the board on that ratio, i just feel it out. i think D, fish oil, mag, and potassium bicarb have helped the most.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 17, 2012
at 01:49 AM

animaleater, great list, thanks! Why did you decide to supplement Selenium? Was there noticeable effect?

Medium avatar

(2417)

on August 23, 2012
at 06:42 AM

Um, yes, it does...and when meat makes it acidic, your body immediately leeches calcium from bones and circulates it in the blood to make the PH balanced. That's why I used to get so much calcium deposited on the backs of the front-bottom teeth by that little gland, any why those deposits stopped completely when I started to take the K-Bicarb daily; it serves the same purpose so the body doesn't have to do the calcium leeching maneuver.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on August 23, 2012
at 06:43 AM

Selenium has been shown to counteract the mercury toxicity problem associated with eating fish; I live in Japan and eat A LOT of sashimi :)

1
Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on August 15, 2012
at 09:01 AM

I started taking magnesium glycinate every night (200mg) a few months back hoping it would solve my restless leg syndrome symptoms and help me sleep. SO far it does seem to help some, but not all the time. I think eating too many nuts makes it flare up, as does alcohol in any form. I wish there was a way to put it to rest because it's a real drag.

I'm not a big fan of popping supplement pills but I do occasionally take a krill oil pill and a bit of zinc.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on August 16, 2012
at 11:54 AM

Although I think mine is genetic because my mom suffers horribly from it also and has been on medication for years.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on August 15, 2012
at 11:16 PM

hi gydle, iron deficiency is another cause of RLS. if you haven't already, it may be worth testing your iron levels, get a full iron panel, do not rely on ferritin alone. further reading; http://www.aafp.org/afp/2000/0701/p108.html & http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15854860 (full report: http://www.idpas.org/pdf/4176.pdf). good luck

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on August 16, 2012
at 11:53 AM

Thanks Daz, I'll ask for a panel at my next dr's appt. GOod to know.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 15, 2012
at 09:00 AM

For me it would have to be whey protein isolate - if it can be considered a supplement.

1
2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:56 AM

My vitamin A intake has been between 25,000-35,000IUs per day for years and I haven't overdosed. As long as you balance Vitamin D3, A and K2 you will be just fine. I also take magnesium and iodine.

No other supplements, just food.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on August 20, 2012
at 11:57 PM

what are you Vit D levels David?

91882203467f64f68f25f58f1caeee68

(1017)

on August 15, 2012
at 11:09 PM

What problems did the Vit A solve?

2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on August 19, 2012
at 11:22 PM

A diet, that is high in vitamin D3 without enough vitamin A and K2 will cause you to deposit calcium where you don't want it...like your kidneys (stones) and arteries....this is not to mention that hard training and a high protein diet causes you to use more vitmain A. Vitamin A also is required for testosterone production. http://www.westonaprice.org/mens-health/vitamin-a-forgotten-bodybuilding-nutrient http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2009/04/tufts-university-confirms-that-vitamin.html

1
430a1d1576ddad4aeac00697e9388fd1

on August 15, 2012
at 06:02 AM

Am very much down with the Vit D, the creatine, the fish oil, the SLEEP! (Have considered a nootropic, since I have had brain fog issues, but cost is a factor)

For myself, I started on Iodine (Iodorol tablets along the lines of the Brownstein protocol- ie with companion nutrients, C, selenium, magnesium, sea salt) around the same time I believe my new LCHF/Paleo diet started to kick in nicely - can't tell if one or the other was the cause, (Both!?) but something happened in terms of consistent energy, brain fog lifting, sleep, some weight loss (am not over weight but wanted just a few pounds off) & a general sense of optimism and desire...to live to do to be, you know...Am sticking to Paleo forever! The iodine, am ramping up (SLOWLY over 6 months or so) to 50mg for a few months and then taking it back to 12.5/day with the selenium etc and loads of water.

A big change for me after being really frustrated and stuck feeling I had no control over my body anymore.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 15, 2012
at 06:19 AM

Thanks dingo25, I eat seafood couple days a week plus shellfish (raw oysters) weekly. Suspect my iodine intake should be good enough already. Do you think it might be not sufficient?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:49 AM

^ one egg has between 35 and 60mcgs. A glass of raw milk as about 50mcg. Theres variable trace amounts in everything, 10-30mcgs per 100grams in meat, similar in vegetables. (with a safety margin of about 20% from what I read). Seafood has even more, often over 100mcg per 100 grams. The rda is 150mcg per day. I am personally unsure of why someone would supplement iodine, but I am sure your seafood is plenty.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:50 AM

^ one egg has between 35 and 60mcgs. A glass of raw milk as about 50mcg. Theres variable trace amounts in everything, 10-30mcgs per 100grams in meat, similar in vegetables. Seafood has even more, often over 100mcg per 100 grams. The rda is 150mcg per day (with a safety margin of about 20% from what I read). You dont need more than what you can get from a varied healthy diet IMO. I am personally unsure of why someone would supplement iodine, but I am sure your seafood is plenty.

430a1d1576ddad4aeac00697e9388fd1

(48)

on August 16, 2012
at 06:02 PM

Had been looking into the Iodoral supplementation when my Hormone Doc handed me a bottle after I was still complaining of brain fog, low energy.Dr. Brownstein book "Iodine, why you need it, why you can't live without it". If the RDA good for you, fine. This "safety" margin is way off.It has been of huge benefit to me after frustrated by sluggish thryoid. Iodine is feared by the mainstream. Was once a household & medical staple. Will help detox.Competes positively for cell receptors attaching with halides...chloride, fluoride, bromide; extra sea salt and lots of water help to flush them out.

0
3573f7a18ee620179fda184c7d8b7242

(241)

on January 23, 2014
at 08:02 AM

Probiotics and MSM. The probiotics really help with recovering from a long-term digestive problem and overuse of antibiotics in my teens and 20s. Thank goodness for having normal digestive processes. The MSM helps with joint pain/arthritis and clearing up a 10-year long battle with scalp itching and flaking. But, perhaps even more importantly, it has resolved my overwhelming chocolate cravings. Special trips to the store, plan my day around, constantly thinking about, binge behavior chocolate cravings are completely gone. Totally worth every capsule.

0
16c65ce9a2d1bd4b1ba9327143227f97

on August 18, 2012
at 03:14 AM

MassProSynthegen for sure. Recovery time slashed and all the ingredients are beneficial with nothing risky. Synergistic affects.

It's the perfect standalone, while also functioning as the ultimate stacker. It's healthful, produces no metabolic waste and helps actualize other nutrients you are taking in. Best, very best!!!!

0
05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:48 AM

Serovera. Stops 80% of all my ibd symptoms.

Magnesium oil and or mag glycinate. Easier morning bowel movements and the oil makes me feel great for a bit.

Low dose LSD. Serious. This is the underappreciated hands down best mood booster and nootropic

Cordygen 5. Helps fatigue better than so many things.

0
6498694060d879a7960b35913539b75f

(1307)

on August 16, 2012
at 01:33 AM

Vitamin D without question. About 8 years ago, my blood levels of D were too small to measure. I never left the house without head-to-toe full-spectrum sunscreen. I had laryngitis for 3 months and recurring systemic candida and sinus infections that would not ever completely clear up, even after adopting a strict grain-free diet. It wasn't until I started supplementing with D that I even began to get my health back. I also allow myself to get sun now. Never will I go back to those times. Right now I'm acting in a period film and cannot get any sun, so supplementing is more important than ever. I'm a big fan of my fermented CLO, but nothing comes close to the difference vitamin D supplementation has made in my life.

E40b2fc9ddcf702bab9d61d28b8c8440

(505)

on August 18, 2012
at 04:14 PM

Congratulations on finding a way to recover!

0
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 15, 2012
at 03:31 PM

two:

  • magnesium: used to do natural calm; now I do bis-glycinate. I never had problems sleeping per se but I do find that now I can routinely sleep almost nine hours and just feel awesome all the time.
  • Creatine: undoubtedly an easy and highly effective supplement. It works. You will just be a bit fuller, put on a wee bit of muscle and keep it on. There are no downsides whatsoever. So simple, so effective, very cheap.

6498694060d879a7960b35913539b75f

(1307)

on August 16, 2012
at 01:35 AM

Thanks for reminding me to start taking my Natural Calm again.

Ecb90bbbd5a15868b2592d517a4a5e82

(280)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:30 PM

Except in women creatine often causes a lot of water retention. Cankles. No thanks.

-1
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 15, 2012
at 10:57 AM

Hands down: Now Super Enzymes. Having listened to my idiot/mofo doctor and allowing him to remove my gall bladder was probably the stupidest thing that I allowed to happen to me.

Never once did he mention that I'd need to supplement with these, but rather said the usual conventional wisdom BS about limiting fats, etc.

Certainly magnesium, potassium, zinc, and the like should be supplemented, and helped out my health based on soil depletion and non-availability from modern (most) SAD foods, but in terms of quality of life, this was the big one for me.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 16, 2012
at 10:30 AM

Oh, I'm fine now, but without digestive enzymes, I can't digest much fats/proteins properly. Yeah, paleo made a huge difference in my quality of life. There seems to be a correlation between celiac, gall bladder removal - I didn't get tested, but looking back at all the other symptoms I've had, I'm convinced that I had celiac as well and just wasn't aware of it.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 16, 2012
at 01:49 AM

I just don't understand how doctors get away with such things for so long. Honestly, it seems that people would do better without them (emergency doctors are exception of course). Wish you all the best raydawg, my mom has gallbladder removed too and seems to be doing great with paleo.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 17, 2012
at 11:23 AM

I use coconut oil every day. Bulletproof coffee and even bulletproof tea. :) Indeed, the MCT half of it doesn't require bile and it turns to ketones very quickly.

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on August 17, 2012
at 01:02 AM

Ray, did you try coconut oil? I heard it doesn't need bile for digestion. Wonder what is your opinion on that.

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