4

votes

NY Women, do you take advantage of your state's toplessness law?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created July 29, 2012 at 2:38 PM

I just read an article in the Daily Beast about the law in NY state that allows women to go topless in public (and a particular woman who is trying to raise awareness). There are many times I'm outside in public that I wish it were normal for women to go topless, to be able to use more of my skin for vitamin D production without forcing my arms and face to take the brunt of the UV.

I don't live in NY, and I doubt I ever will, but for those of you who do, do you take advantage of this law?

Do any other states have gender equality for toplessness?

What do you think of toplessness equality?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 16, 2012
at 06:24 PM

Next time you see a very obviously attractive woman pass by in a crowded street or a mall... pay attention to the attention she generates. Old and young, male and female, black and white, whatever. Do you think this is out of boredom that everyone looks and even stares oh so obviously? I think not. What's comical to me is that people are surprised when guys check em out. Go ahead and dangle a piece of candy in front of a 3 year old, and tell them not to touch, not to look, and not to get excited. Good luck.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 16, 2012
at 06:21 PM

I do indeed realize. I live in San Diego, not Podunkville. I am out and about as much anyone on this board. I understand. I think women do not realize the deepness of the built in desire in most men. Why do you think there are so many scandals? Why so many people willing to risk everything they have in life to have a secret affair? Why is the entire world obessed with the female body? When a girl walks down the street clearly wearing clothing meant to show off her goods, it's pretty ridiculous for her to think that guys will turn a blind eye and repress what is natural.

93b5fc3a75c76817eed3f43831471cec

(140)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:07 PM

Jack, maybe you don't realise this, but most women will tell you that they have lost count of the times they have been whistled at, had suggestions for sex acts, been followed down the street, etc etc. By strangers who may or may not be attractive, may or may not be alone. For some women in some neighborhoods it's an everyday occurrence. (And if it's a warm summer day you can multiply these attentions by 10.) You probably don't know about this because YOU don't do it, and as a man you haven't experienced it. But this is why being 'checked out' makes some women feel unsafe.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 16, 2012
at 02:59 PM

Randall - men have chests. I'm not confused.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 16, 2012
at 02:58 PM

Randall - men have chests.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 16, 2012
at 06:15 AM

I wasn't talking about societal discrimination but personal choice. I'm obviously not advocating harassment of women who don't wear head coverings. So yes, let's leave it at that if we aren't talking about the same thing to begin with.

D2f26b82fcde9728ca1a0c29e14832d2

(20)

on August 16, 2012
at 02:48 AM

Actually, anatomically speaking, men DO have breasts. Only MEN think that their breasts are NOT breasts. I'm a man. I have breasts. We have nipples and some fatty tissues that many scientists believe at one time actually were milk producing mammary glands. I believe that is where your confusion comes from. Women and men BOTH have breasts, but only WOMEN have mammary glands within said breasts.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2012
at 04:34 AM

hah! http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2012/07/30/topless-woman-takes-n-y-c.html

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2012
at 04:33 AM

Sure there are psycho guys that you gotta watch out for. ok great. I know. But "heckled for being hot"? When a guy "checks out" a girl because he thinks she is is hot, what is with the snarky attitude of girls nowadays? What about feeling flattered? I promise you that from a guys perspective.. that makes no sense at all. The #1 desire for men is food in the tummy. The #2 desire is sexual. So called "hot girls" are like the greatest thing on the planet to most guys. That girls would feel unsafe when a guy likes what he sees is a very bizarre thing. Why not just enjoy the attention?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2012
at 04:29 AM

Sara - see this is where we go different directions. I am a man, so I will never fully understand your perspective as a woman in this regard... obviously. BUT! I am a smart man, and I can understand it to an extent, and I must tell you that it is quite confusing from a man's perspective why women think this way.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on August 01, 2012
at 12:23 AM

I agree, Jack. What I don't understand is *why not*? I think guys are pretty darn sexy, but I do it in a way that doesn't make them feel unsafe. Why do women get heckled for being hot? It makes me a sad panda. The world would be a sexier place is sexiness were safe. :)

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on July 31, 2012
at 11:15 PM

i feel more awkward around man boobs; just wanna scream "cover them puppies up!"

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on July 31, 2012
at 11:13 PM

i will be marking the day in Black Rock City

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 31, 2012
at 09:44 PM

@Jenny - "men are allowed to cover their heads for religious reasons too" - compare a little tiny kippah with hijab and burqia - not the same, don't you agree? How about a country I know where women are harassed for not wearing head covering? You say - freedom of religion, I say - discrimination. Let's leave it at that.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 31, 2012
at 09:40 PM

Men are visual - women not so much? This is more than generalization and it is not correct. So men don't have to wear a hijab? and women have to??? Don't get me started...

Afc0b8e755ac7cdde6b517fdadb50026

(778)

on July 31, 2012
at 08:33 PM

its liberating not to put yourself on some social hierarchy based on looks when all are the same and not being objectified. men are visual, women not so much, so men dont have to wear a hijab, and i agree that i hate seeing big bellied men walking around like that but it doesnt inconvenience me.

Afc0b8e755ac7cdde6b517fdadb50026

(778)

on July 31, 2012
at 08:31 PM

the reason we find it sexy is because the only time we see boobs is in sexy situations and cleavage (women objectifying themselves?). seeing topless women just hanging out doing normal things takes the sexyness away. the media has made us men behave this way. i cant help but notice (i dont stare).

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 31, 2012
at 02:27 PM

hmm. I should be clear that what I'm diggin at is that toplessness equality is gonna be a real steep mountain to climb. I'm not necessarily saying that my opinion matches the reality of it. In other words... I basically agree with what you're saying, but the question that you asked included multiple questions and I guess I'm more directing my answer toward the final one. What do I think of toplessness equality? I think it's never gonna happen because men have chests and women have breasts. They are different and female breasts are far more desired sexually.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 31, 2012
at 02:01 AM

bachole - hopefully you are including MEN and their bare breast and chests in your analysis. And why no mention of Africa? Your comment about "fuzzy, wishful thinking with no basis in reality" is insulting. Sorry for his rudeness Sara S. Bachole if you have a valid point why not just make it without sounding like a pompous asshole. Further, toplessness is accepted all over Europe and South America, isn't it? And we spell Fuck with an F

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 31, 2012
at 01:59 AM

bachole - hopefully you are including MEN and they bare breast and chests in your analysis. And why no mention of Africa? Your comment about "fuzzy, wishful thinking with no basis in reality" is insulting. Sorry Sara. Further, toplessness is accepted all over Europe and South America, isn't it?

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on July 31, 2012
at 01:18 AM

Number 3 would be the real bonus for me! I'd love to be able to flop on the grass, topless, after a sweaty team game and have it be no big deal.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 31, 2012
at 01:14 AM

Wow bachole - what exactly is your issue with this? I had zero desire to go topless in public until now. I want to come to your town and organize a topless convention. lol

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 10:16 PM

I agree that it's woefully off base. But I think part of making it more normal is for more women to just do it (in casual situations, like a beach). I'm certainly not brave enough, myself, though.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 10:14 PM

The discussion isn't really about women going topless in more formal situations, though. It's about going topless in exactly the kinds of situations where it's socially acceptable for men to go topless, situations where you're out and about wanting some sun, such as at the beach, or jogging trail.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 30, 2012
at 09:10 PM

The part about that that I think it a great mistake that society has made, is that we view a woman's breast as "R-rated", and unfortunately we brainwash our children with this in the name of "protecting their innocence", as if seeing a boob destroys their innocence. A film can have tremendous violence, extremely foul and offensive language, and be rated PG-13. But it can be as clean as a whistle, with a very positive message undertone, and it shows a woman's boobs for a moment, and gets rated R. I think it's woefully off base.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 30, 2012
at 09:09 PM

because they are softer, rounder, and larger? I mean.. I sort of agree with you, and understand what you mean, but "unsexualizing" the female breast in our society is never ever gonna happen.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 08:59 PM

The equality part here would refer to women's body parts being equally as sexualized as men's. Breasts are theoretically primarily for feeding babies, and both men and women derive sexual pleasure from their breasts. So I don't understand why women's breasts are thought to be so sexual but men's aren't.

Cc3ce03985eac5ebcbb95fc2329f13b0

(7370)

on July 30, 2012
at 07:02 PM

"titillating for meN" rather

Cc3ce03985eac5ebcbb95fc2329f13b0

(7370)

on July 30, 2012
at 07:02 PM

1. Because it would take the breast out of the purely sexualised/exploitable realm and make it anatomy. 2. Because women shouldn't have to believe that breasts are inherently sexual and titillating for me. 3. Because sometimes it hot out, and removing your shirt would be refreshing. 4. Because traditions are not only made but unmade all the time. 5. Because I don't believe in restricting myself based on tradition, especially one that is not universal, and based on xtrian ideas of modesty and chastity.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:46 PM

Men are allowed to cover their heads for religious reasons too. I think it's a big generalization and women that choose to wear religious garments get really looked down upon in countries where it's outside of the norm.

363d0a0277a8b61ada3a24ab3ad85d5a

(4642)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Bachcole, I was thinking of men, as well, when I wrote my response, particularly with the note on human emotions. There are so many. But jealousy is a big one. First off, I know my husband wouldn't want other men looking at my bare breasts in public, secondly, I don't really want him to be inundated with boobs all day. I am sure many couples would have this be an issue. So back off. I think you're misreading this or projecting some of your own emotions onto this. Why don't you share something instead of making assumptions and passively aggressively making accusations.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:05 PM

Notice I said cultures, not people/populations.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:04 PM

Huh? Bachcole, what are you on about?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:43 PM

uh... are you saying that when society no longer finds womens' breasts attractive and desires them in a sexual way that we will have made progress and that it would be a spiritual advancement? I fail to see how this makes sense and why it would even be necessary and/or a good idea. Also, I fail to see how it is even remotely possible in the first place. Never gonna happen.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:42 PM

uh... are you saying that when society no longer finds womens' breasts attractive and desires them in a sexual way that we will have made progress and is a spiritual advancement? I fail to see how this makes sense and why it would even be necessary and/or a good idea. Also, I fail to see how it is even remotely possible in the first place. Never gonna happen.

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:10 PM

Why the phuck should they? Give me one good reason besides your desire to break the convention. Not all conventions are bad. Traditions are like evolution. The one's that have lasted for a long time are usually the good ones, like folktales. Usually, the older the folktales the better the story because there is a filter over time that blocks the lousy folktales. The same with traditions.

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:07 PM

Tell me where bare breasts are the norm? China? 23% of the world's population. No. India? 20% of the world's population. No. Europe? 10% of the world's population. No. We just went over 50%. North America? 7% of the world's population. We are up to 60%. South America, Australia, Japan, Indonesia, all Muslim countries, etc. etc. "it seems like for most cultures, bare breasts are the norm" in your imagination. Such a statement as that is just another example of fuzzy, wishful thinking without any basis in reality.

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:00 PM

And of course we don't give a fig what it will do to men because we are all so spiritual and individualist and wonderful that we don't give a damn about anyone else but ourselves and some ideology.

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on July 30, 2012
at 04:58 PM

Such a call to equality is shamelessly stupid and ignoring of the reality of the world. When society has sublimated it's sexual lust, then this would make a lot of sense and be a good idea. And the sublimation of sexual lust as with all real spiritual advancement starts (and ends) with oneself. I don't suppose anyone reading this post has made any progress in this regard, expect perhaps to just get old, and that doesn't count.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:43 AM

I am not fond of hijabs as a form of being liberated. If this is a form of being liberated, whom are they liberating themselves from? And why don't men wear hijabs? Men should do it too - don't they have equal rights to feel liberated? Of course, women should be free to choose anything they want to wear as long as they are not brainwashed into thinking that hijabs put you in control of their bodies. That is a very sick idea.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:20 AM

"I'm not fond of hijabs either"- the women that I know who choose to wear hijabs for religious reasons feel liberated and in control of their bodies. Need to differentiate between choice and requirements.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:34 AM

I would do it too. But since not everybody is doing it - that's like a blue mohawk hair. People will stand out.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:33 AM

Hi :) I do not really judge other women's breast - I really don't care. Breasts are breasts - I have them too. But I think that if a woman exposes her breast in public, she puts other people in an awkward position. It is like imagine there is a beach party and one person comes in a fur coat. You cannot help it but stare at them. At the same time you realize that staring is not appropriate. So you are like - what the heck... how do I not look at something that is different because staring is inappropriate? If everybody would go topless (both guys and girls) that would be fine with me -

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 04:32 AM

I didn't know this about NY. Turns out there are several states with "Top Freedom"! Wow. http://gotopless.org/topless-laws

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 04:29 AM

Great link Truthiness.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 04:27 AM

Thanks for the link. The book looks great.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 03:24 AM

lmao. Thank YOU Truthiness. I just find your point of view very interesting and foreign actually - something that I personally, as a woman, can't relate to. Maybe its my age (50). Perhaps younger women do experience this.... not sure.

76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

(5386)

on July 30, 2012
at 03:12 AM

'Merica...

76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

(5386)

on July 30, 2012
at 03:08 AM

Thanks for the spell check Crowlover...I meant to "say" and not "see" accepted :-p I have to ask though, why the question of my sex?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 02:05 AM

Are you a man, or a woman?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 02:03 AM

uhmmmmmmmmmmm Wow. and No. Did you mean to see ACCEPTED or expected?

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on July 30, 2012
at 01:49 AM

I like big butts and I can not lie!!!! ... oh, sorry, wrong room

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 29, 2012
at 11:19 PM

Seriously Marie. I totally agree.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 29, 2012
at 11:17 PM

"....bodies and toplessness to not be seen as overtly sexual". Never ever ever gonna happen in the USA (sadly)

Medium avatar

(4878)

on July 29, 2012
at 08:45 PM

"There's a direct correlation between acceptable boobs exposure and not sexy boobs" Man-boobs included. Believe me it is painful for us gals when the temp rises and (man-boobed/beer-bellied) guys start peeling their shirts off, due to the fact that it is socially acceptable. GROSS!

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 08:19 PM

Well, *I* would never feel comfortable going topless in our current cultural climate. But I really appreciate Johnston's bravery. From what I can tell, she only does it in public places that are on the safer side. She says she hasn't had too much trouble.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on July 29, 2012
at 08:16 PM

Dude, if you listen very carefully you'll hear the sound of me not agreeing with you. Boobs is always sexy.

4ecfe8ee47ea62a11be516cd59701a4b

(30)

on July 29, 2012
at 07:36 PM

Obviously the OP has never ridden the subway, where being groped is a common experience. Topless riding would be a near -rape nightmare. We're discussing NYC here people, not someplace sweet respectful and nice.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:54 PM

I see that as a perk (excuse the pun).

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:53 PM

I agree with you that as it currently is, any exposure like that becomes sexualized. What I'd personally like is for bodies and toplessness to not be seen as overtly sexual. Sure, people wouldn't go topless normally, or in their workplace, but at the beach, why not? I'd love for people to be able to wear whatever they want (with appropriate degrees of formality) without social disapproval, be it mostly covered or mostly bare. I guess I'm kind of weird that I don't want to keep another person guessing, because I just don't want random people to think of me in that way.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:01 PM

I bet more guys will check out this question than girls :)

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:01 PM

LOL at Alvaro :)

Medium avatar

(3213)

on July 29, 2012
at 03:52 PM

Yes, they should!!!

Medium avatar

(3213)

on July 29, 2012
at 03:51 PM

I'm all for that law ;)

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 03:25 PM

That's awesome.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Yeah, it seems like for most cultures, bare breasts are the norm, and we're the exception.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 02:57 PM

I agree. That's why I applaud Moira Johnston: she's making an effort to make female toplessness more normative.

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17 Answers

best answer

8
363d0a0277a8b61ada3a24ab3ad85d5a

(4642)

on July 29, 2012
at 04:08 PM

I live in NYC and I personally would not partake in this practice, though I am glad that it is not illegal. I think that most people won't partake for cultural issues and human emotional issues - exposure, jealousy, fear, etc.

Also, knowing that it would draw attention, whether it should or not, is a deterent for me. I can't single-handledly change society, and I want to be judged by my character and my mind, not my breasts, and unfortunately, I don't think that most people would be able to look past the boobies. I applaud those women who can engage in public topless, because I think it is far from being normalized in American society, but it would be nice for that to change.

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:00 PM

And of course we don't give a fig what it will do to men because we are all so spiritual and individualist and wonderful that we don't give a damn about anyone else but ourselves and some ideology.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:04 PM

Huh? Bachcole, what are you on about?

363d0a0277a8b61ada3a24ab3ad85d5a

(4642)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Bachcole, I was thinking of men, as well, when I wrote my response, particularly with the note on human emotions. There are so many. But jealousy is a big one. First off, I know my husband wouldn't want other men looking at my bare breasts in public, secondly, I don't really want him to be inundated with boobs all day. I am sure many couples would have this be an issue. So back off. I think you're misreading this or projecting some of your own emotions onto this. Why don't you share something instead of making assumptions and passively aggressively making accusations.

10
Cfe88f41d0f90c6355a58eddbe78c9f8

on July 29, 2012
at 02:40 PM

There are actually a large number of cities that have topless equality. I don't think the law is what's stopping most people.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 02:57 PM

I agree. That's why I applaud Moira Johnston: she's making an effort to make female toplessness more normative.

6
Cc3ce03985eac5ebcbb95fc2329f13b0

on July 29, 2012
at 03:20 PM

It's legal here on the westcoast of Canada, and I have been topless in public. Most women don't, but I think they should.

Medium avatar

(3213)

on July 29, 2012
at 03:52 PM

Yes, they should!!!

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 03:25 PM

That's awesome.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:01 PM

LOL at Alvaro :)

Cc3ce03985eac5ebcbb95fc2329f13b0

(7370)

on July 30, 2012
at 07:02 PM

1. Because it would take the breast out of the purely sexualised/exploitable realm and make it anatomy. 2. Because women shouldn't have to believe that breasts are inherently sexual and titillating for me. 3. Because sometimes it hot out, and removing your shirt would be refreshing. 4. Because traditions are not only made but unmade all the time. 5. Because I don't believe in restricting myself based on tradition, especially one that is not universal, and based on xtrian ideas of modesty and chastity.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 31, 2012
at 01:14 AM

Wow bachole - what exactly is your issue with this? I had zero desire to go topless in public until now. I want to come to your town and organize a topless convention. lol

Cc3ce03985eac5ebcbb95fc2329f13b0

(7370)

on July 30, 2012
at 07:02 PM

"titillating for meN" rather

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:10 PM

Why the phuck should they? Give me one good reason besides your desire to break the convention. Not all conventions are bad. Traditions are like evolution. The one's that have lasted for a long time are usually the good ones, like folktales. Usually, the older the folktales the better the story because there is a filter over time that blocks the lousy folktales. The same with traditions.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on July 31, 2012
at 01:18 AM

Number 3 would be the real bonus for me! I'd love to be able to flop on the grass, topless, after a sweaty team game and have it be no big deal.

6
Afc0b8e755ac7cdde6b517fdadb50026

(778)

on July 29, 2012
at 02:50 PM

its a social contract, not a legal issue in many places. a 'disease of civilization' if you will.

boobs are gonna keep getting sexualized because that sells.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Yeah, it seems like for most cultures, bare breasts are the norm, and we're the exception.

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:07 PM

Tell me where bare breasts are the norm? China? 23% of the world's population. No. India? 20% of the world's population. No. Europe? 10% of the world's population. No. We just went over 50%. North America? 7% of the world's population. We are up to 60%. South America, Australia, Japan, Indonesia, all Muslim countries, etc. etc. "it seems like for most cultures, bare breasts are the norm" in your imagination. Such a statement as that is just another example of fuzzy, wishful thinking without any basis in reality.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:05 PM

Notice I said cultures, not people/populations.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 31, 2012
at 01:59 AM

bachole - hopefully you are including MEN and they bare breast and chests in your analysis. And why no mention of Africa? Your comment about "fuzzy, wishful thinking with no basis in reality" is insulting. Sorry Sara. Further, toplessness is accepted all over Europe and South America, isn't it?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 31, 2012
at 02:01 AM

bachole - hopefully you are including MEN and their bare breast and chests in your analysis. And why no mention of Africa? Your comment about "fuzzy, wishful thinking with no basis in reality" is insulting. Sorry for his rudeness Sara S. Bachole if you have a valid point why not just make it without sounding like a pompous asshole. Further, toplessness is accepted all over Europe and South America, isn't it? And we spell Fuck with an F

5
B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on July 29, 2012
at 11:10 PM

i live in toronto and its not illegal here; i've gone topless in places where i could reasonable be expected. i think the reason most women don't do it here more often is that you become a spectacle.

i had an interesting encounter with a woman from europe who pulled out her camera to take picture of two young women walking topless.

she exclaimed "i don't believe it" as she snapped picture. i spoke up to tell her that it wasn't illegal here and added that the reason more women don't take advantage is because strangers feel entitle to take pictures and post them on the internet. she look appropriately ashamed as she explain "its just that we don't have this back home" to which i replied "women don't have breasts where you live; how odd!"

Afc0b8e755ac7cdde6b517fdadb50026

(778)

on July 31, 2012
at 08:31 PM

the reason we find it sexy is because the only time we see boobs is in sexy situations and cleavage (women objectifying themselves?). seeing topless women just hanging out doing normal things takes the sexyness away. the media has made us men behave this way. i cant help but notice (i dont stare).

5
9e3bf43de29f66e5bb7be9c7d176b5e1

on July 29, 2012
at 06:39 PM

C'mon, everyone knows that in places where topless nudity is the norm, it's no longer sexy. There's a direct correlation between acceptable boobs exposure and not sexy boobs.

/ducksandruns

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:54 PM

I see that as a perk (excuse the pun).

Medium avatar

(4878)

on July 29, 2012
at 08:45 PM

"There's a direct correlation between acceptable boobs exposure and not sexy boobs" Man-boobs included. Believe me it is painful for us gals when the temp rises and (man-boobed/beer-bellied) guys start peeling their shirts off, due to the fact that it is socially acceptable. GROSS!

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 29, 2012
at 11:19 PM

Seriously Marie. I totally agree.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on July 29, 2012
at 08:16 PM

Dude, if you listen very carefully you'll hear the sound of me not agreeing with you. Boobs is always sexy.

3
76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

on July 29, 2012
at 11:41 PM

Going topless will never be accepted so long as there is more than one women on this planet...now granted it SEEMS everyone likes boobs...men...women...hungry babies....football players...

Nothing...NOTHING is as offensive to a woman as another woman that she doesn't know, standing there breathing HER air...even though this other woman is just simply...being...(granted she???s wearing the wrong shoes with her skirt) what woman in her right mind would stand for THAT non sense...and now you want to throw in a topless woman ONTOP of that...I think she'd have a stroke...

The amount of judgment that goes into just a single hour or let alone on a daily basis between women WHO DON???T KNOW EACH OTHER, takes up so much of the day...I just can't see this ever happening for this reason alone.

Maybe one day, when things like COSMO and Photoshop are done away with...and women are finally paid like the other 3.5 Billion...or allowed to leave their homes at night without feeling as though they need an armed escort...or can reach the top of a shelf without needing one of those Dr. Claw reacher arms OR can refer to their own body parts without feeling shame OR ever having to say ???down there??????

...one day...when one woman walks up to another woman and doesn't see anything other than another human being...that day we call all go topless.

Imagine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8

Truth.

76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

(5386)

on July 30, 2012
at 03:08 AM

Thanks for the spell check Crowlover...I meant to "say" and not "see" accepted :-p I have to ask though, why the question of my sex?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 02:05 AM

Are you a man, or a woman?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 02:03 AM

uhmmmmmmmmmmm Wow. and No. Did you mean to see ACCEPTED or expected?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:33 AM

Hi :) I do not really judge other women's breast - I really don't care. Breasts are breasts - I have them too. But I think that if a woman exposes her breast in public, she puts other people in an awkward position. It is like imagine there is a beach party and one person comes in a fur coat. You cannot help it but stare at them. At the same time you realize that staring is not appropriate. So you are like - what the heck... how do I not look at something that is different because staring is inappropriate? If everybody would go topless (both guys and girls) that would be fine with me -

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 30, 2012
at 05:34 AM

I would do it too. But since not everybody is doing it - that's like a blue mohawk hair. People will stand out.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 03:24 AM

lmao. Thank YOU Truthiness. I just find your point of view very interesting and foreign actually - something that I personally, as a woman, can't relate to. Maybe its my age (50). Perhaps younger women do experience this.... not sure.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on July 31, 2012
at 11:15 PM

i feel more awkward around man boobs; just wanna scream "cover them puppies up!"

3
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:41 PM

Please do not downvote my answer :) I know you won't like it - but that's what I really think.

I am against being topless in public for both women and men, unless their jobs require it (swimmers, strippers, etc.)

Of course, everybody has a freedom of expression but... what about freedom not to look at those breasts?

I really don't want to see other people's breasts in public. Not because they are ugly, but because I have the right not to. I am already feeling uncomfortable around low-cut and see-through tops with low-rise jeans and high-rise t-shirts. What happened to modesty and decency? Going topless is an odd thing to pick for equal rights. How about the right to equal time for housekeeping duties?

If you want to go topless - go to your back yard or to a nude beach. Give your neighbors a thrill. I would not want to be your neighbor though.

I am not fond of hijabs either, but there is such a thing as respect and consideration for the feelings of others. I am from a dairy country, if I go out in public with my DD exposed, there bound to be some accidents and, in a worst case scenario, somebody will have a heart attack.

Plus you need to cover it all to keep another person guessing. It is more fun thinking of what is underneath than actually seeing it.

In one anthropological article I have read that there is one thing that is universal for ALL TRIBES and ALL HUMANS, something that is completely absent in animals. This something is called shame and there is an age for developing this feeling that is the same for all people on earth. I know, it is hard to believe it after seeing Lady Gaga's outfits and MTV's video clips.

But even in those tribes where they are topless they wear SOMETHING like a string or whatever to divert attention and if they lose that string they feel naked - they are not entirely shameless.

Plus wearing clothes is a natural sun block.

So... cover up. :)

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:20 AM

"I'm not fond of hijabs either"- the women that I know who choose to wear hijabs for religious reasons feel liberated and in control of their bodies. Need to differentiate between choice and requirements.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 29, 2012
at 11:17 PM

"....bodies and toplessness to not be seen as overtly sexual". Never ever ever gonna happen in the USA (sadly)

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 29, 2012
at 06:53 PM

I agree with you that as it currently is, any exposure like that becomes sexualized. What I'd personally like is for bodies and toplessness to not be seen as overtly sexual. Sure, people wouldn't go topless normally, or in their workplace, but at the beach, why not? I'd love for people to be able to wear whatever they want (with appropriate degrees of formality) without social disapproval, be it mostly covered or mostly bare. I guess I'm kind of weird that I don't want to keep another person guessing, because I just don't want random people to think of me in that way.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:46 PM

Men are allowed to cover their heads for religious reasons too. I think it's a big generalization and women that choose to wear religious garments get really looked down upon in countries where it's outside of the norm.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:43 AM

I am not fond of hijabs as a form of being liberated. If this is a form of being liberated, whom are they liberating themselves from? And why don't men wear hijabs? Men should do it too - don't they have equal rights to feel liberated? Of course, women should be free to choose anything they want to wear as long as they are not brainwashed into thinking that hijabs put you in control of their bodies. That is a very sick idea.

Afc0b8e755ac7cdde6b517fdadb50026

(778)

on July 31, 2012
at 08:33 PM

its liberating not to put yourself on some social hierarchy based on looks when all are the same and not being objectified. men are visual, women not so much, so men dont have to wear a hijab, and i agree that i hate seeing big bellied men walking around like that but it doesnt inconvenience me.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 31, 2012
at 09:40 PM

Men are visual - women not so much? This is more than generalization and it is not correct. So men don't have to wear a hijab? and women have to??? Don't get me started...

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on July 31, 2012
at 09:44 PM

@Jenny - "men are allowed to cover their heads for religious reasons too" - compare a little tiny kippah with hijab and burqia - not the same, don't you agree? How about a country I know where women are harassed for not wearing head covering? You say - freedom of religion, I say - discrimination. Let's leave it at that.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on August 16, 2012
at 06:15 AM

I wasn't talking about societal discrimination but personal choice. I'm obviously not advocating harassment of women who don't wear head coverings. So yes, let's leave it at that if we aren't talking about the same thing to begin with.

2
D2f26b82fcde9728ca1a0c29e14832d2

on August 16, 2012
at 02:46 AM

Actually it is not just New York City, to the commenter who seems to think so. The law was passed for all of New York State. That particular law was passed around 94 or 95, as my wife and I had just moved out of New York shortly before that and caught it on the news. As for those who don't think it's a good idea? Well, I'm sorry what you MAY think, but the fact is the only reason why men (young ones especially) and yes EVEN WOMEN, crave the exposition of the nude body is because we are raised believing there is something to hide. If we were all exposed to topless women on a daily basis, the mystery would be gone and it would become normal. Personally I prefer my women clothed, but I don't go ape over nudity. This is likely because I have been an informed man since a fairly young age. Countries that allow public nudity within reason, and who educate their children in sexual awareness from a young age have FAR LOWER rates of rape, and far fewer women who bare themselves for magazines and strip bars. Unfortunately most Americans are far to prudish and confused. This is actually sad. Due to the ignorance they are raised with they view this as being disgusting and improper. In reality most of the people who scream the loudest against public nudity are doing it simply because, inside where they don't want to look, they like nudity. Most people are terrified of the things that hold power over them.

2
Bd271299b2d4d9b2e3da9c252fef058c

on July 30, 2012
at 02:57 AM

i live in new york and don't "take advantage" of this law, but there is a photographer named Jordan Matter who's HAS been for the past five years... here is a link to his work. i love it.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 04:27 AM

Thanks for the link. The book looks great.

1
518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:53 PM

The only time I'm topless is on beaches. And even then, only on beaches where I'm not the only one.

Side note, going to nude beaches as a young 'un was my first major exposure to what real bodies look like, and it was surely one of the most eye opening body-related experiences of my short little life. Seeing naked people and your own body in an entirely unsexual way shows you the wide range of "normal" and can be actually rather theraputic.

1
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 30, 2012
at 06:23 PM

Equalilty? While I think it's a really nice thought that there would be a bunch of attractive women running around topless (I mean ya know... sure! Sounds great. Where do I sign, right?)

But seriously though...

Men have chests.

Women have breasts.

The above is generalized, and there are exceptions on both sides as far as sizes and shapes etc, but I really don't see how men and women are "equal" in this regard.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 10:16 PM

I agree that it's woefully off base. But I think part of making it more normal is for more women to just do it (in casual situations, like a beach). I'm certainly not brave enough, myself, though.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 30, 2012
at 09:10 PM

The part about that that I think it a great mistake that society has made, is that we view a woman's breast as "R-rated", and unfortunately we brainwash our children with this in the name of "protecting their innocence", as if seeing a boob destroys their innocence. A film can have tremendous violence, extremely foul and offensive language, and be rated PG-13. But it can be as clean as a whistle, with a very positive message undertone, and it shows a woman's boobs for a moment, and gets rated R. I think it's woefully off base.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 30, 2012
at 09:09 PM

because they are softer, rounder, and larger? I mean.. I sort of agree with you, and understand what you mean, but "unsexualizing" the female breast in our society is never ever gonna happen.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 08:59 PM

The equality part here would refer to women's body parts being equally as sexualized as men's. Breasts are theoretically primarily for feeding babies, and both men and women derive sexual pleasure from their breasts. So I don't understand why women's breasts are thought to be so sexual but men's aren't.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2012
at 04:33 AM

Sure there are psycho guys that you gotta watch out for. ok great. I know. But "heckled for being hot"? When a guy "checks out" a girl because he thinks she is is hot, what is with the snarky attitude of girls nowadays? What about feeling flattered? I promise you that from a guys perspective.. that makes no sense at all. The #1 desire for men is food in the tummy. The #2 desire is sexual. So called "hot girls" are like the greatest thing on the planet to most guys. That girls would feel unsafe when a guy likes what he sees is a very bizarre thing. Why not just enjoy the attention?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 31, 2012
at 02:27 PM

hmm. I should be clear that what I'm diggin at is that toplessness equality is gonna be a real steep mountain to climb. I'm not necessarily saying that my opinion matches the reality of it. In other words... I basically agree with what you're saying, but the question that you asked included multiple questions and I guess I'm more directing my answer toward the final one. What do I think of toplessness equality? I think it's never gonna happen because men have chests and women have breasts. They are different and female breasts are far more desired sexually.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2012
at 04:29 AM

Sara - see this is where we go different directions. I am a man, so I will never fully understand your perspective as a woman in this regard... obviously. BUT! I am a smart man, and I can understand it to an extent, and I must tell you that it is quite confusing from a man's perspective why women think this way.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on August 01, 2012
at 12:23 AM

I agree, Jack. What I don't understand is *why not*? I think guys are pretty darn sexy, but I do it in a way that doesn't make them feel unsafe. Why do women get heckled for being hot? It makes me a sad panda. The world would be a sexier place is sexiness were safe. :)

D2f26b82fcde9728ca1a0c29e14832d2

(20)

on August 16, 2012
at 02:48 AM

Actually, anatomically speaking, men DO have breasts. Only MEN think that their breasts are NOT breasts. I'm a man. I have breasts. We have nipples and some fatty tissues that many scientists believe at one time actually were milk producing mammary glands. I believe that is where your confusion comes from. Women and men BOTH have breasts, but only WOMEN have mammary glands within said breasts.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 16, 2012
at 02:59 PM

Randall - men have chests. I'm not confused.

93b5fc3a75c76817eed3f43831471cec

(140)

on August 16, 2012
at 05:07 PM

Jack, maybe you don't realise this, but most women will tell you that they have lost count of the times they have been whistled at, had suggestions for sex acts, been followed down the street, etc etc. By strangers who may or may not be attractive, may or may not be alone. For some women in some neighborhoods it's an everyday occurrence. (And if it's a warm summer day you can multiply these attentions by 10.) You probably don't know about this because YOU don't do it, and as a man you haven't experienced it. But this is why being 'checked out' makes some women feel unsafe.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 16, 2012
at 02:58 PM

Randall - men have chests.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 16, 2012
at 06:24 PM

Next time you see a very obviously attractive woman pass by in a crowded street or a mall... pay attention to the attention she generates. Old and young, male and female, black and white, whatever. Do you think this is out of boredom that everyone looks and even stares oh so obviously? I think not. What's comical to me is that people are surprised when guys check em out. Go ahead and dangle a piece of candy in front of a 3 year old, and tell them not to touch, not to look, and not to get excited. Good luck.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 16, 2012
at 06:21 PM

I do indeed realize. I live in San Diego, not Podunkville. I am out and about as much anyone on this board. I understand. I think women do not realize the deepness of the built in desire in most men. Why do you think there are so many scandals? Why so many people willing to risk everything they have in life to have a secret affair? Why is the entire world obessed with the female body? When a girl walks down the street clearly wearing clothing meant to show off her goods, it's pretty ridiculous for her to think that guys will turn a blind eye and repress what is natural.

1
88a669ef87f8138d6bbfbdace533a482

on July 29, 2012
at 11:33 PM

Oh yeah, Hippie Hollow and naked bicycling events! Keep Austin weird!

1
78964c5cc470f86a5897db8e1ce8e6f9

on July 29, 2012
at 11:21 PM

It's legal in Austin, Texas. I don't take advantage of it because I'd rather not get leered at any more than I already do.

0
6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

on July 30, 2012
at 09:21 PM

I doubt the men would object much, laughing as I type.We certainly are pretty casual about not having much on at home but I would imagine NY is pretty much like London and if I went into the City or a business meeting with my blouse undone traffic would stop even at my age. (In the UK is it not illegal but the test if will it cause a breach of the pace - will the people you are amongst get angry etc we have a rather silly man called the Naked Rambler who refused to put clothes on and keeps walking through the country side. He won't wear clothes in prison too. His mother is a bit fed up with him - and also it's pretty cold in the UK so it's not always that much fun with nothing on).

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on July 30, 2012
at 10:14 PM

The discussion isn't really about women going topless in more formal situations, though. It's about going topless in exactly the kinds of situations where it's socially acceptable for men to go topless, situations where you're out and about wanting some sun, such as at the beach, or jogging trail.

0
7b6f26a46d90de808433dc2e76c4d786

on July 30, 2012
at 04:50 PM

Here is the map of legal topless states in the US http://gotopless.org/topless-laws

The 5th annual GoTopless Day is coming up on Aug 26 (in honor of Women's Equality Day) to encourage women to stand up for their topless rights on the basis of gender equality. See GoTopless website for GoTopless events around the country and the world that day. "Free your breasts, free your mind!"

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on July 31, 2012
at 11:13 PM

i will be marking the day in Black Rock City

0
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on July 30, 2012
at 01:48 AM

New York City, where the 2nd Amendment means nothing, only criminals (and police) have guns, Big Gulp size cups are outlawed, cigarettes are $14.00 a pack, and the mayor and governor rule like tyrantical nazis over the people.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 30, 2012
at 04:29 AM

Great link Truthiness.

76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

(5386)

on July 30, 2012
at 03:12 AM

'Merica...

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