I sometimes have some level of depression. I'm on a diet between strict paleo and autoimmune protocol of Sarah Ballantyne and I had slight depression with this diet and 133 mg magnesium glycinate supplementation and 6 hours a week walking and running a small part of it and a bit more exercise also.
I have allergies and I still use the minimum maintenance dose of an antipsychotic for schizophrenia and schizophrenia is a suspected autoimmune disease and allergies may be symptoms caused by autoimmunity. I also tend to shake my legs more than other people, which may be mild restless legs syndrome and I often have cold hand, often one of the hands colder than the other, which may be mild raynaud's phenomenon and both restless legs syndrome and raynaud's phenomenon are suspected autoimmune diseases. Sarah Ballantyne's autoimmune protocol removes egg whites, when I learnt it I ate an egg white on an empty stomach and waited and it gave me some pain, probably from the intestines. I removed egg whites which I used one a a day and later fermented legumes which I used a heaping teaspoon a day after learning about the AIP. My diet was already free from grains(except flaxseed if you count it which I still use about 3/2 teaspoon a day), nightshades(except a very small amount of ashwaghanda I still use but plan to eliminate, nightshades give me joint pain), unfermented legumes, dairy and included about 15 almonds from nuts and seeds section which is now 12 almonds and half a teaspoon of mustard seeds.
I use some St. John's Wort tea when I feel some depression and I need to know more about the treatment options, I once used antidepressants but I won't be using them again as long as I don't have severe depression and other options are out of reach.
In mornings I walk and run a small part of about half an hour 5 times a day often in a sunny weather nowadays and once a week for walk for about an hour when it's sunny with naked forearms and I usually sunbathed for about 5 minutes nearly totally or totally naked lying on my each side last summer but I probably won't be able to do it this summer and in the following summers the most I may be able to do it may be 2 times a week. I'm not sure what I should do about vitamin d because having more vitamin d also requires more vitamin A and vitamin K2 and vitamin K2 is scarce in my diet because I don't consume fermented legumes such as natto(I don't consume any legumes) and fermented dairy, I don't think they are healthy for me and you can read about why they aren't healthy in Sarah Ballantyne's site, thepaleomom.com.
5-HTP and tryptophan increase serotonin levels but I'm afraid increasing serotonin levels may cause a drop in serotonin sensitivity just like high levels of insulin increases insulin resistance so when you stop using 5-HTP, after some time you may have symptoms of low serotonin easier.
St. John's Wort has an antidepressant chemical but side effects other than skin conditions aren't known for it.
Light therapy is something I wanna try but I have allergic conjunctivitis and I have to wear sunglasses when it's sunny so I suspect light therapy may not be good for my eyes. I sleep 8-9 hours a day.
Once I asked my psychiatrist what she thought about SAM-e(s-adenosyl methionine) and she said she thought it wasn't good, though she might have said that because it contained methionine and methionine isn't good for schizophrenics and I was diagnosed with schizophrenia 9 years ago.
Magnesium is said to help in serotonin communication between cells and I had slight depression while using 133 mg magnesium glycinate supplementation and eating a sufficient magnesium diet with 15 almonds "soaked with water and salt for 3 days" to eliminate phytate and make minerals in it utilizable everyday and walking and running a small part of about 6 hours a week and a bit more exercise. I'm not sure if more magnesium can help but if it could I'd consider that.
I used fish oil mid-term or maybe long-term in total in my life and I won't use anymore fish oil because it's found to be harmful in the long term; but I maintain a diet with a good omega 3 to omega 6 ratio and enough EPA and DHA from fish.
I've read saffron is helpful but how much of it should be used ? It's a very expensive spice and I suspect other options are not worse than saffron.
I walk and run a small part of about 6 hours a week and a bit more exercise. I have allergies and I still use the minimum maintenance dose of an antipsychotic for schizophrenia and schizophrenia is a suspected autoimmune disease and for autoimmune diseases Sarah Ballantyne doesn't recommend high intensity exercises and allergies may be symptoms of autoimmunity according to her also. I also tend to shake my legs more than other people, which may be mild restless legs syndrome and I often have cold hand, often unilateral, which may be mild raynaud's phenomenon and both restless legs syndrome and raynaud's phenomenon are suspected autoimmune diseases.
I've read cognitive behavioral therapy(CBT) is better than light therapy for seasonal affective disorder but probably I can't have such therapies where I live and I've recognized when I read the steps that I try to apply the steps of it myself also though it is probably not as good as CBT.
I've found this guide and it lists much more things:
I don't think other medical and psychological interventions in it are good or applicable options also. Among other complementary and lifestyle interventions, I already use alcohol avoidance, some acetyl-l-carnitine, cocoa and cocoa butter(instead of chocolate), a small amount of ginkgo biloba, I listen to different genres of music, I don't smoke, I use small amounts of rhodiola rosea, I avoid sugar, I use 50 mg zinc gluconate a day and when it finishes I have 30 mg zinc glycinate capsules to use, I have a diet high in vitamin b-12 and probably enough in other nutrients listed also.
I want to learn more about the options for depression so that I have more chances of not getting depressed and if I feel depressed again I have better treatments available to me.
Please share your knowledge, experience and hearsay about any sort of feeling depressed and its treatment so we can learn from each other or you just may help people with such problems.
@jesuisjuba - paleorepublic.com
@Fed at LiveCaveman.com
asked bymoors (55)
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on December 07, 2013
at 01:23 PM
I'm no expert, but I have suffered from depression in the past and I am firmly of the belief that lifestyle intervention is a million times more powerful than ANYTHING you can put in your mouth. I was in a horribly dark place, and I took a month off work (I was actually signed off by my doctor), and spent that time being outside as much as possible, exercising LESS than I had been, reading, relaxing, spending time with the people I loved, and gave up all alcohol. I came out of it totally ready to face the world again.
My belief is that environment primarily causes depression - most people don't micromanage their diet or supplement intake and do not suffer from depression because of it. I do believe that diet has an influence, however when you reach the point where you're talking about adding in saffron to your diet or worrying about adding in more vit D for fear of throwing your D/A/K ratio out of whack, it's gone beyond diet.
My (100% non-expert) advice would be to take a step back from your attempts at self-cure. Instead, push yourself out into the world to interact with people. Take up a team sport, join a group or activity of some kind that involves others, keep the diet clean and continue with whatever supplements you're used to taking and make you feel good, but save yourself the stress, time and money of trying any and every substance that has ever been linked to depression in the hope that one will prove the magical cure you've been searching for. You'd struggle to find anything that HASN'T been linked to depression by someone, somewhere :) Do try CBT, I've heard that it can really work wonders. But don't become obsessed, I honestly think that's the best way to dig yourself in deeper.
Hopefully, something in that may have been of some help. I really sympathise. Depression is hideous and it's self-perpetuating. Give yourself a break!
on November 10, 2013
at 08:39 PM
Could be this guy, who's into nootropics - he mentions he was on longecity for a while but found the discussion a bit brain dead. But I think scienceguy is a Brit. They certainly have similar interests and provide references for everything:
I did take his longecity advice on page 6 and found it by far the most effective non-pharma thing I've tried for sleep (post 162) - use control + f to look for key words, could be worth your time:
on November 10, 2013
at 12:15 PM
Sounds too complicated.
Try this thread for a list of do's and don'ts for anxiety & insomnia - you may find some simpler options:
Magnesium is very important, and I think the best way of getting it is by epsom salt spray:
on November 09, 2013
at 09:57 PM
Serotonin is a stress hormone. I dont think that strategies that aim to elevate serotonin (i.e. 5-HTP) are safe in the long term.
It may surprise you, but when SSRIs work they may actually lower and not heighten serotonin levels. Not much is known about the true mechanism of action of SSRIs. They may also be totally unrelated to serotonin. But pharmaceutical propaganda led people to believe serotonin is the "happy hormone". This is a dangerous misconception.
One example: Tianeptine, a selective serotonin reuptake enhancer (working totally opposite to SSRIs), is a powerful antidepressant.
Natural strategies that aim to enhance thyroid function and reduce cortisol and other stress hormones can reduce depression. Eating enough carbohydrates, frequently enough and avoiding too much protein, as well as too little, can accomplish that. Sugar has powerful antistress properties.
In some cases thyroid and pregnenolone supplementation is very beneficial .
Moderate exercise can lower cortisol, while excessive exercise elevates it and should be avoided.
Enough salt (!), calcium and magnesium is also important to keep the stress hormones low.