21

votes

Is the Flippant Dismissal of Vitamin C Supplementation in the Paleo Community Misguided?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 12, 2011 at 2:54 AM

Vitamin C is an important antioxidant that humans, along with the rest of the great apes, and some other less relevant animals like guinea pigs, bats etc., have lost the ability to synthesize. We lost this ability at a time when we were largely frugivorous and were thus ingesting plenty of it.

Along the way, we've lost uricase, which is an enzyme that breaks down uric acid, another antioxidant. It's tempting to therefore dismiss the importance of vitamin C and rely on the RDA or whatever amount doesn't produce obvious symptoms of scurvy. Well avast, ye swabs, we should be ingesting a lot more of it.

The Hadza are a group of hunter-gatherers who reside in Tanzania. Hominins have been evolving there since we broke off from our shared ancestor with chimps and bonobos about 7 million years ago. Groups of hunter-gatherers in this region have been exploiting largely the same species of plants and animals for millions of years. As such, it is my contention that the Hadza are the single most important hunter-gatherer group for the study of optimal human nutrition. I believe that all hominin populations outside of the tropics are on marginal lands and though there have been adaptations to these conditions, the vast majority of our genetic code has been selected with the conditions under which the Hadza live "in mind." Just as 2 million > 10,000, 7 million > 60,000. I can think of no population less relevant to the study of worldwide optimal human health than the Inuit, whereas the Hadza have a far greater chance of being broadly applicable.

The Hadza diet is comprised primarily of baobab, tubers, flesh and seasonal berries, with as much honey as they can find. Baobab is the single largest contributor of kcals in their diet and is a surprisingly rich source of vitamin C. There is a variable amount of vitamin C content in the fruit that depends on the tree, but I have seen the range listed as 1500 to 5000 mg/kg. Given that they eat so much of it, daily gram dosages are not out of the realm of possibility. The baobab pods are available almost year-round since the trees produce pods at different times. The Hadza move their camps fairly regularly, but almost always have a source of this important food.

Though a person of northern European descent may be better at coping with reduced intake of vitamin C compared to a Hadza, I think it's safe to say that there is a significant evolutionary precedent for quite high vitamin C intakes and that those who pursue gram dosages every day are not the wackjobs they're made out to be here and elsewhere. Vitamin C is one of the least toxic (and cheap) supplements you can buy. I've never seen any evidence that supplementing with gram doses is harmful, only insistence that it's not necessary. Because many here avoid fruit for God knows what reason, simply taking a supplement should suffice, though I suspect that there are various other compounds not yet fully understood that are in foods like baobab that are also beneficial and that we have evolved alongside.

I therefore recommend that pure ascorbic acid be purchased and dosed 1/8th tsp (500mg) at a time (mixed with plenty of water) several times a day. Those wishing to not amplify their iron absorption (and/or diminish their copper and zinc absorption) would do well not to take it with meat, organs, shellfish etc. Similarly, because the structure of vitamin C is so similar to glucose, they share absorptive mechanisms. As such, it would be best not to take it with starch, since the glucose would be in far greater amounts and drown it out, as it were. Thus, it seems to me that taking it on an empty stomach 15-20 minutes before meals may be optimal, and that bowel disturbances should not occur at this dosage, provided that it is sufficiently diluted.

Edit: Dragonfly brings up the important consideration that ascorbic acid, as you might imagine, is highly acidic and would be best not to have it contact your teeth. I always swish water after taking vitamin C (or eating any fruit or starch for that matter) but forgot to mention that.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on January 16, 2012
at 08:37 PM

I think most people would agree that a reasonable amount of vitamin C per day is great! The super-ultra-mega-dosing however, has the potential to interact with iron and create free-radicals (negating the idea of taking an antioxidant in the first places). At best, taking way over the limits our body can process at one time, decreases absorption of Vitamin C from food and creates pricey urine. Pauling did a lot of fabulous work, but probably won't be remembered for thinking that Vitamin C cures cancer. For now, get a reasonable amount! It's an important vitamin.

8cdd21051a8dd11a0e3dc8300f36d31d

on November 12, 2011
at 06:17 PM

That is, if you believe in oxidation theory of aging. Many people don't, like Todd @ gettingstronger.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:01 PM

Well, I answered this, but Melissa deleted all of it so if you didn't read the answer which explains it all, you know how to find me -- majkinetor

91fe5b7e10068df9f147ee84320e38f7

(614)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:59 PM

@Travis - poor attempt at humor, sorry. Just giving you a hard time :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:19 PM

In summary, when you take chemicals they don't do what you want them to do - they do many different things based on context. Context is most important.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:17 PM

ALA is very strong antioxidant that is used with diabetic neuropathy as very effective treatment, but its other function is that it chelates mercury. So... when we talk about antioxidants we need to recognize this is only 1, maybe even not that big aspect of their physiological action.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:14 PM

BUT, the point here is, that ROS clearance is **only one** mechanism of vitamin C and other antioxidants. They all have other roles. Furthermore, strict antioxdiants don't exist- all can be both anti and pro oxidants depending on situation. For instance, uric acid seem to work as antioxidant in extracelular compartments but as pro oxidant intracellulary. Vitamin C is pro oxidant in very large intravenous doses but not in physiological scenarios: http://www.fasebj.org/content/13/9/1007.full

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:09 PM

Yes, that is correct about Peter. I find his observation strange, given that he works with animals and has wast knowledge and should have known better. He also thinks food reward theory doesn't have a role in obesity which is less then scientific since we can be almost sure that it is a factor, maybe not a dominant one with most people but existent one for some people nevertheless. Obesity is multifactorial disease. He and Todd from GethingStronger do not believe in oxidative theory of aging so that explains their attitude toward antioxidants.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:02 PM

Alex, you are right, however there are multiple issues with that - a) wild fruit doesn't have same amount of glucose as GMO or domesticated ones b) competition is not total, there is other kind of vitamin C transporter in intestines - SVCT1 which doesn't compete with glucose (its a pump actually while GLUT is using diffusion). c) they eat fruit 100% fresh, and probably lot before its totally ripen which all increase total amount of C comparing to city foods

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:00 PM

Alex, you are right, however there are multiple issues with that - a) wild fruit doesn't have same amount of glucose as GMO or domesticated ones b) competition is not total, there is other kind of vitamin C transporter in intestines - SVCT1 which doesn't compete with glucose (its a pump actually while GLUT is using diffusion). c) they eat fruit from fresh, and probably lot before its totally ripen which all increase total amount of C comparing to city foods.

F4aff43df6a8a49a1c3879c1233ee560

(459)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:12 PM

Um, you mention not taking C with starch or glucose, but maybe we should pause to consider that it always comes prepackaged with glucose in real food. The Hazda are certainly getting plenty with their baobab pods. If glucose is competing with C, who knows what their functional dose is.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 09:33 AM

Scrubjay: I mentioned zinc...u mad, brah?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 08:03 AM

The problem with recommendations are that they generally don't include frequency of dosing which is crucial.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 08:01 AM

Its also recently discovered that bats actually do synthesize low amounts of C.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:59 AM

Jaminet actually recommends C megadoses fully, with bowel tolerance included - http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=636

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:53 AM

Vit C beats leptin any time, lol :P Jeff, nice music carrier. I myself was into that for 6 years and I plan to revive it.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:23 AM

I found it: http://paleohacks.com/questions/70745/vitamin-c-supplementation#axzz1dTP3TGk6. Also check out this one http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/supplements/no-c-you

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:16 AM

Yes, it sounds logical, but we know know common sense has nothing to do with science. Animals also have much higher production apart from moving a lot. On the other hand C will make probability of injury less and healing time faster which is more important as when you are injured, you dont' exercise at all so there is nothing you can gain from it. I would point you out but you guys deleted my account so I can't find it now....

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:14 AM

lol you are to vit c what quilt is to leptin.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:09 AM

No problemo, I just like saying "You are wrong!". But you have to explain this to me better, or point me to the thread where you did so. It still seems intuitive to me that if you need ROS for optimal exercise adaptation, and vitamin C will combat that in the post-exercise window, that one would not want to take vitamin C then. Animals move around a lot more than I do. So I would want to time my nutrient intake so as to not interrupt hormetic responses to my very few minutes of activity. Or is this line of thinking off?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:09 AM

This is serious side effect of vitamin-c: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9PLsuwE1AQQ/Tqape0DskNI/AAAAAAABEF0/9ze7EI15MUI/w402/erp-The%2Bpower%2Bof%2Bvitamin%2Bc.jpg

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:00 AM

I am not wrong, I know about all studies that show that. I posted already 10 different studies and rebutal of that particular one is among them. You can't select 1 or 2 studies, that is cherry picking. Like I said several times, if that was true, all animals would suck in exercise adaptation, right ? Since they dose C like 100x better then humans doing oral doses - they have continuous, dynamic C production which is optidosesd by the liver or kidney. Much of the C u take is lost in the intestines fighting toxins and helicobacter.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:38 AM

Okay, this study is imperfect, but check it: "Antioxidants prevent health-promoting effects of physical exercise in humans"...http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/05/11/0903485106.abstract

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:35 AM

You are wrong! I think. Lemme go check.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:34 AM

....related to C of course.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:33 AM

Kamal, there is not such thing as impaired adaptation to exercise.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:28 AM

P.S. One thing you didn't talk about is timing. I used to avoid taking vitamin C in the couple hours after working out, because of its role in combating adaptation to exercise. And because I'm of Indian descent, I know deep down in my deepest of hearts that I should be eating lots of mango and other high vitamin C foods. Mostly because mango is delicious.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:27 AM

That is a myth. There is no such thing. The myth is based on theoretical background that final product of C metabolism is oxalate which forms stone with calcium in acidic environment. Those prone to it will take Sodium Ascorbate to alkalize urine. See Linus Pauling's explanation: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22911#p22911

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:23 AM

This is a good question...for me to poop on!

91fe5b7e10068df9f147ee84320e38f7

(614)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:25 AM

Wait, what? It's not a zinc deficiency? ZincMan, have you lost your purpose?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:18 AM

Additionally, a lot of people are concerned with ROS and longevity and ascorbic acid is intimately tied to GSH, which is our most important endogenous antioxidant. Those interested in optimal mitochondrial function, and thus longevity, and an overall reduction in oxidative stress would do well to ensure that all antioxidants are humming along in optimal amounts.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:16 AM

Wow, that's interesting. Might have to look into it, Cheers

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:07 AM

I think the most noticeable thing that most of the people here would benefit from is collagen synthesis as it pertains to connective tissue. So many people in the community lift weights/do crossfit so tendonitis issues could arise as they did for me before I started taking it. Healing in general seems to be a lot better.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:48 AM

I've found that 500mg in 8oz of water barely tastes different than plain water.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:23 AM

Yeah but I dug a hole in the ground and didn't find baobab (or even microbaobab) pods.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on November 12, 2011
at 04:19 AM

Hey, don't knock archaeology. It's getting more advanced every year. The work with plant phytoliths and microfossils is helping to tell us more about what plants people have eaten in the past.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:59 AM

Would you say that archaeology is A) more scientific B) less scientific or C) as scientific as phrenology?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:37 AM

Not a big fan of Kamal, eh? Keep it quiet though, one of his informants is lurking in this thread.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:33 AM

Oh shit, I've been here too long--already starting to joke around in the comments, which I really hate.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:33 AM

Travis, you forgot to wash your hands!

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:32 AM

You should see if you can contract a case of OCD...makes this stuff way easier. Wait...did I lock the door?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:31 AM

They both recommend too little, in my opinion, though a gram a day would be leagues ahead of what most people take.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on November 12, 2011
at 03:30 AM

yeah, I'm totally oblivious to this one. Is this some debate the carnivores were in? Even in the midst of winter in Sweden, you can find sorbus berries and lingonberries frozen on trees and on the ground. They were nice snacks when I was doing forestry there :)

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:30 AM

& I am LAZY! Can't be bothered to mix up something unless it tastes good.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:29 AM

Naaah, already ordered my ascorbic acid capsules. If my gut can't digest a bit of gelatin, then I am doomed...

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:27 AM

Makes sense. I'm just waaaay too lazy to keep track of the timing of my supplements--except for making sure I take D early in the day & magnesium late in the day...

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:23 AM

Camu camu, acerola etc. are excellent sources. Some more common fruit like raspberries have a very good C:fructose ratio.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:22 AM

@Dragonfly what about ascerola powder?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:22 AM

Most HG meals are on their own simply because that's how the food is available. We don't have such limitations, so a Scot with hemochromatosis isn't going to want to take it with his steak, for example.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:18 AM

Seems like simply swishing water afterward as I do would be sufficient. I'll add that to the post.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:18 AM

Do the Hadza only eat baobab fruit on its own? Seems like more overthinking to try to perfectly time supplemental C...just sayin'!

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:16 AM

Can't do the fruit (fructose intolerance) but I'm not crazy about liquid ascorbic acid on my teeth either. I'll stick to capsules.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:09 AM

On top of that, I take vitamin C as described because I don't live in the tropics (yet).

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:08 AM

On top of that, I take vitamin C as described because I don't live in a tropical rainforest (yet).

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:08 AM

You can lead them to fruit, but you can't make them eat it. This would be better than nothing at all. Personally, I eat lots of fruit and tubers (just as the Hadza do, though not because they do) and feel great.

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10 Answers

8
D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on November 12, 2011
at 03:26 AM

I didn't realize it had been categorically dismissed

to name just a few relevant opinions in the blogosphere that advocate Vitamin C and its importance

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 08:01 AM

Its also recently discovered that bats actually do synthesize low amounts of C.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on November 12, 2011
at 03:30 AM

yeah, I'm totally oblivious to this one. Is this some debate the carnivores were in? Even in the midst of winter in Sweden, you can find sorbus berries and lingonberries frozen on trees and on the ground. They were nice snacks when I was doing forestry there :)

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:31 AM

They both recommend too little, in my opinion, though a gram a day would be leagues ahead of what most people take.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 08:03 AM

The problem with recommendations are that they generally don't include frequency of dosing which is crucial.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:59 AM

Jaminet actually recommends C megadoses fully, with bowel tolerance included - http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=636

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on January 16, 2012
at 08:37 PM

I think most people would agree that a reasonable amount of vitamin C per day is great! The super-ultra-mega-dosing however, has the potential to interact with iron and create free-radicals (negating the idea of taking an antioxidant in the first places). At best, taking way over the limits our body can process at one time, decreases absorption of Vitamin C from food and creates pricey urine. Pauling did a lot of fabulous work, but probably won't be remembered for thinking that Vitamin C cures cancer. For now, get a reasonable amount! It's an important vitamin.

7
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:06 AM

Yes, it is misguided.

I was totally with you until you proposed taking only a supplement--you knew I'd say this, didn't you Travis?

One or 2 pieces of fruit plus a moderate C supplement ensures some intake of any other beneficial elements we don't even know about yet. Just as tubers are obviously great food, moderate fruit is good too.

However, I agree totally if a person is determined to avoid fruit--but I think that's a questionable choice.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:08 AM

On top of that, I take vitamin C as described because I don't live in a tropical rainforest (yet).

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:23 AM

Camu camu, acerola etc. are excellent sources. Some more common fruit like raspberries have a very good C:fructose ratio.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:30 AM

& I am LAZY! Can't be bothered to mix up something unless it tastes good.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:16 AM

Can't do the fruit (fructose intolerance) but I'm not crazy about liquid ascorbic acid on my teeth either. I'll stick to capsules.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:09 AM

On top of that, I take vitamin C as described because I don't live in the tropics (yet).

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:29 AM

Naaah, already ordered my ascorbic acid capsules. If my gut can't digest a bit of gelatin, then I am doomed...

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:22 AM

@Dragonfly what about ascerola powder?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:18 AM

Seems like simply swishing water afterward as I do would be sufficient. I'll add that to the post.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:08 AM

You can lead them to fruit, but you can't make them eat it. This would be better than nothing at all. Personally, I eat lots of fruit and tubers (just as the Hadza do, though not because they do) and feel great.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:48 AM

I've found that 500mg in 8oz of water barely tastes different than plain water.

4
7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

I have seen the argument that the human body clears vitamin C very, very rapidly (almost like a toxin) and that we have evolved to use uric acid in replace of vitamin C, so the quantities seen in other animals may not be relevant to humans.

I think Peter at Hyperlipid said that he used to mega-dose on vitamin C, then decided vitamin C supplementation was a bad thing. I think one of his arguments involves interfering with adaptation to exercise.

(I usually take 2-3 grams a day myself, but I would be curious to see what others thought of these arguments.)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:19 PM

In summary, when you take chemicals they don't do what you want them to do - they do many different things based on context. Context is most important.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:01 PM

Well, I answered this, but Melissa deleted all of it so if you didn't read the answer which explains it all, you know how to find me -- majkinetor

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:09 PM

Yes, that is correct about Peter. I find his observation strange, given that he works with animals and has wast knowledge and should have known better. He also thinks food reward theory doesn't have a role in obesity which is less then scientific since we can be almost sure that it is a factor, maybe not a dominant one with most people but existent one for some people nevertheless. Obesity is multifactorial disease. He and Todd from GethingStronger do not believe in oxidative theory of aging so that explains their attitude toward antioxidants.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:17 PM

ALA is very strong antioxidant that is used with diabetic neuropathy as very effective treatment, but its other function is that it chelates mercury. So... when we talk about antioxidants we need to recognize this is only 1, maybe even not that big aspect of their physiological action.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:14 PM

BUT, the point here is, that ROS clearance is **only one** mechanism of vitamin C and other antioxidants. They all have other roles. Furthermore, strict antioxdiants don't exist- all can be both anti and pro oxidants depending on situation. For instance, uric acid seem to work as antioxidant in extracelular compartments but as pro oxidant intracellulary. Vitamin C is pro oxidant in very large intravenous doses but not in physiological scenarios: http://www.fasebj.org/content/13/9/1007.full

2
6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:03 AM

Travis, for the vitamin C supplementation noobs out there (not me obviously... other people), can you explain what the benefits of supplementing vit c are, and also the dangers of not getting enough.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:07 AM

I think the most noticeable thing that most of the people here would benefit from is collagen synthesis as it pertains to connective tissue. So many people in the community lift weights/do crossfit so tendonitis issues could arise as they did for me before I started taking it. Healing in general seems to be a lot better.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:18 AM

Additionally, a lot of people are concerned with ROS and longevity and ascorbic acid is intimately tied to GSH, which is our most important endogenous antioxidant. Those interested in optimal mitochondrial function, and thus longevity, and an overall reduction in oxidative stress would do well to ensure that all antioxidants are humming along in optimal amounts.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 12, 2011
at 05:16 AM

Wow, that's interesting. Might have to look into it, Cheers

8cdd21051a8dd11a0e3dc8300f36d31d

on November 12, 2011
at 06:17 PM

That is, if you believe in oxidation theory of aging. Many people don't, like Todd @ gettingstronger.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:31 AM

Good post Travis.

Let me just add that C protects from deleterious effect of fructose which is nowdays hidden everywhere.

Here is the eye opening paper for people who would like to educate more about this topic:

The evolution of obesity: insights from the midmiocene

One funny thing is that when you say people to take extra vitamin C they start talking about fruit and natural sources... I don't know how the word extra get lost so often. Nobody said you should stop all other sources but that you should take several grams per day on top of it.

I will also remind people that most of the 'natural' supplements actually contain only around 10% of plant vitamin C and 90% synthetic one with price that may be from 10 to 300 times higher. Yes, I have seen natural variant which sells 30g for 10E. Regular vitamin C powder is around $20/kg and you have freedom to mix it with whatever bioflavonoids you want.

is-the-flippant-dismissal-of-vitamin-c-supplementation-in-the-paleo-community-misguided?

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:14 AM

lol you are to vit c what quilt is to leptin.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:53 AM

Vit C beats leptin any time, lol :P Jeff, nice music carrier. I myself was into that for 6 years and I plan to revive it.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:09 AM

This is serious side effect of vitamin-c: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9PLsuwE1AQQ/Tqape0DskNI/AAAAAAABEF0/9ze7EI15MUI/w402/erp-The%2Bpower%2Bof%2Bvitamin%2Bc.jpg

1
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on November 12, 2011
at 05:46 AM

What do you think about the link between such larger doses of supplementatal C (as you recommend) and kidney stones (excess urinary oxalic acid)? My fiance is afraid to supp C anymore since that time he tried taking 1000mg of C daily, and passed two kidney stones within a year. I suppose this depends mostly on the individual but kidney stones are so awful I wouldn't recommend the 'try it and see' approach...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:27 AM

That is a myth. There is no such thing. The myth is based on theoretical background that final product of C metabolism is oxalate which forms stone with calcium in acidic environment. Those prone to it will take Sodium Ascorbate to alkalize urine. See Linus Pauling's explanation: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22911#p22911

1
499f188c87c6980742b9ba98caa6f563

(683)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:51 AM

"Groups of hunter-gatherers in this region have been exploiting largely the same species of plants and animals for millions of years."

How do we know this? How do we know that human have continuously lived there all this time? They could have moved out for thousands of years, then moved back, etc.

According to the book 1491, the current Amazonian forest is not a pristine forest, but a leftover, overgrown orchard that had been carefully tended and shaped by pre-Columbian Indians for thousands of years. So what do we know about the history of the Tanzanian ecology?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:23 AM

Yeah but I dug a hole in the ground and didn't find baobab (or even microbaobab) pods.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 12, 2011
at 03:59 AM

Would you say that archaeology is A) more scientific B) less scientific or C) as scientific as phrenology?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on November 12, 2011
at 04:19 AM

Hey, don't knock archaeology. It's getting more advanced every year. The work with plant phytoliths and microfossils is helping to tell us more about what plants people have eaten in the past.

0
Cf4576cbcc44fc7f2294135609bce9e5

on January 16, 2012
at 07:11 PM

thirty percent of americans eating SAD have gingivitis. Gingivitis can be cured with vit C. paleo eaters may have a little better track record with regards to gingivitis. gingivitis is a bio marker for atherosclerosis. i take vit c to prevent atherosclerosis a low grade scurvey condition. i renamed it Vit c because vitamin is short for vital amine and Vit C is not an amine.

0
C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 16, 2012
at 06:42 PM

How much do you need to take to get consistent loose bowels?

0
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on November 12, 2011
at 03:43 AM

I had absolutely fantastic results in Sweden with using wild berries as a supplement. When I didn't have time to gather them myself, I bought them from this company, which was available in nearly every store. I sometimes just made a morning energy drinks blending lingonberries or sea buckthorn with water. Very bitter since these berries are low in sugar, but kind of good in a weird way. One of the many things I miss from there...

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