4

votes

Anybody ever go from Paleo to vegetarian?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 19, 2010 at 2:16 PM

I know there are a lot of former vegetarians on this site.

Does anybody know of people who tried Paleo for at least 30 days and then went vegetarian?

Just trying to satisfy my curiosity here. I recognize this may not be the best place to ask that question... maybe I should pop on over to 30bananasaday... =)

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 19, 2011
at 01:53 AM

Great to hear from the vegans Alex. Everyone at my local animal shelter where I volunteer is vegan. Every last person. I imagine if I worked there I would do it too. Or at least stop eating meat. I am leaning more and more towards seafood for protein for ethical reasons but have to admit I really seem to need some beef every now and again or I start to feel like crap. I have gone vegetarian many times and vegan once and just felt horrible on those diets.

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on August 19, 2011
at 12:42 AM

would they still be reading this site if they switched to vegetarian....?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 19, 2011
at 12:37 AM

I think people are less likely to go from paleo to veganism since a lot of paleos are former vegans and paleo has a ecological philosophy that is often attached to it

A912ff969107d3eda04ee78c683a6bc5

(178)

on December 23, 2010
at 11:38 PM

@WCC I believe Dr. Cordain's wife(Laurie or Laura) is Pescetarian.

D0a103cafaf4768c6dc69b1772a55877

(421)

on September 28, 2010
at 08:00 PM

Could not agree more.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on September 11, 2010
at 09:32 PM

@sarah-ann, I see you answered none of my questions. Fructose... sure is. You pull that right from Taubes book or something? I know a little bit about inflammation. I used to be on 4 kinds of steriods to help tame it. Psst... I hate to be the one who breaks it to you, but there is a difference between orange soda, and an orange ;) Good luck with your fructose paranoia though.

Da397846a2cfad231a1122126bb6eda7

(227)

on August 31, 2010
at 02:10 AM

Gadzooks! I just went to an 80/10/10 website to see what they're talking about. I can barely tolerate 1 pound of fruit in a month, and they recommend eating 6 pounds of fruit in a day... I don't think I'm a good candidate for that. Eeeek!

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 30, 2010
at 01:58 PM

Freelee - I beleive she has those balls of which you speak. http://huntgatherlove.com/content/feast

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 30, 2010
at 01:27 PM

Hey everyone, if y'all can't keep it civil, please don't post. Personally, I'm fine with snark, but calling people idiots is uncalled for.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 30, 2010
at 03:40 AM

BTW the PCRM and the vegan nutritionists dislike the 801010 crowd immensely because it's not supported by science either. If you want to be a responsible vegan I suggest checking out Jack Norris' work.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 30, 2010
at 03:39 AM

Ha, I do kill my meals myself sometimes. I've killed plenty of animals.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 28, 2010
at 03:39 PM

Ahhh, now we're getting to the root of it. I've been nothing but civil but you call people who question what you're doing an idiot. How do you know you're healthier than me? I'm sat here chuckling at your arrogance tbh, like being able to run a marathon is any measure of health at all. Fructose is inflammatory too btw. Have a great life the both of you and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out..

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 28, 2010
at 03:33 PM

Really, I'm serious. I really would love an insight into how you deal with that paradox. Are you just speciesist or what?

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 28, 2010
at 03:32 PM

Plenty of well conducted science showing sat fat is good for you. Might want to actually do some research yourself Freelee. Don't you think it's strange that no natural human diet is completely fruitarian? Not like they don't have the option, why do you think that is? Isn't it great we can have this conversation? Certainly couldn't do it on your website. You only allow people who agree with you to register.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 10:35 AM

Yes I support the idiot award Grok. I don't think you will get far with the athletics question.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 10:33 AM

Does science support your saturated fat lifestyle Melissa? Ofcourse not. Let me know when you get the balls to actually start killing your meals yourself.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 28, 2010
at 07:11 AM

The protein/aminos in fruit is easily digested and pushed in by carbs and also not destroyed by processing, which means I'm probably needing less than I needed before anyway. Most vegans don't open their mouths wide enough, eat gourmet, and consume crappy soy frankenfoods. That's why they're all skinny, gaunt and have deficiencies/health issues.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 28, 2010
at 07:06 AM

...and when you're low on energy, you stop using them. Your body is probably finally getting the calories/protein it wants for energy and growth, and is now rewarding you. I'm getting 70-90g protein daily almost entirely from a variety of fruits alone. Thats about the equivalent to 4-5 cans of tuna, or 12 eggs, or 2 6oz chicken breasts, or 3 4oz salmon fillets, or 10oz steak. Thats more than a lot of regular paleo people will eat (maybe not guys). It ends up being about .5% per lb of bodyweight.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 28, 2010
at 06:46 AM

@sarah-ann, give me a break. Comparing my health/diet to barely above sad? I think you deserve an idiot award for that one. I have no doubt I'm healthier than you. How long have you been paleo? How much of your food do you kill with your own hands? When is the last time you ran over 125 miles a week or were able to do a ultra marathon? I'm sure I'll be just fine without my k2 rich butter for a while. As a matter of fact... I seem to be doing better since I stopped consuming it. I also ditched raw dairy for possibly the last time a few months ago. It's far too inflammatory.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 28, 2010
at 06:21 AM

@Melissa. Yes I realize this. I also realize that I consume more food that you and @Sarah-ann combined. Possibly a few of your friends tossed in there too ;)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 04:41 AM

Oh god Sarah-ann are you serious? Not worth my time.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 04:41 AM

Ooh that's quite nasty Melissa. It's obvious that you didn't even do the lifestyle or else you would share the details, ah well you're a dime a dozen - probably ate cooked food the whole time, sorry that's not 811. I did go to college actually, best to get your facts right.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 04:40 AM

Ooh that's quite nasty Melissa. It's obvious that you didn't even do the lifestyle or else you would share the details, ah well you're a dime a dozen - probably ate cooked food the whole time, sorry that's not 811. I did go to college actually, best to get your facts right. Oh god Sarah-ann are you serious? Not worth my time.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:23 PM

@Freelee, so explain to me how vegan logic works. One cow can feed 50 people, several bugs need to die for one banana. How many bugs lives is one cow 'worth'? Is there some kind of conversion table somewhere?

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:20 PM

@Grok, I don't doubt you're healthier than an average american, in fairness, that ain't hard! The reason I don't take those supps is that I get them from food. You can't do that so you need to replace them in supps, ain't no shame in it! Also forgot, where you getting your K2 mk4 from?

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 27, 2010
at 04:59 PM

Freelee -- I don't think you understood my point.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:08 PM

Based on Grok's blog he never tried orthodox paleo approach either, so his old results might not reflect paleo very well. Dairy = not paleo.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:06 PM

Grok, you realize that the RDAs are imperfect estimates? Drawn up by governmental bodies? Very sad.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:05 PM

Haha, people don't have to be members of 30BAD to follow low-fat raw fruit based diets. You don't know everything Freelee. Maybe instead of trolling teh interweb you and the Durianrider should enroll in college.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:04 PM

Since 801010 people believe eating animals = evil, I don't see how we could ever get along. I feel the same way about you promoting this diet as I feel about the ketogenic people. Both diets tend to have amazing short term results, but science does not support long term efficacy.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:01 PM

Most of the fights involving fruitarians vs. omnivores on raw boards were about animal rights. I hope you are able to avoid that aspect.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 27, 2010
at 07:38 AM

@Stancel. Can't blame the diet if your not eating real food. I love Jimmy Moore, but look at how he blew up when he started eating low-carb franken-products. Congrats on getting off the soy and onto meat! That soy is some wicked bad stuff!

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on August 27, 2010
at 07:03 AM

If pcrm.org is your definition of good science, then this discussion is over. Be well.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:46 AM

Haha yeh Jae you may have a point there but you have taken my comment out of context and I did not say "don't knock ANYTHING till you try it". It would be good if you could actually just have a go instead of wasting time being critical ;)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:42 AM

Stancel follow your intuition I say :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:40 AM

Haha yeh Jae you may have a point there but you have taken my comment out of context. It would be good if you could actually just have a go instead of wasting time being critical ;)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:37 AM

Melissa I don't know who you are or your story so I can't comment but I don't know anyone who has tried LFRV and like you said "done it right" and received bad results. I know all the people who have been in the movement since Doug wrote the book, so I probably know you too?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:37 AM

Ikco as far as science goes, it supports the lifestyle. Good Science does not support eating animal flesh, there is plenty of research out there. Good site to start...pcrm.org. My mentoring costs vary.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:37 AM

Lol Sarah haven't heard that one before ;D maybe I should just be a breatharian, on no but then I inhale bugs, can't do that. Then I should just starve to death. This lifestyle isn't about NOT harming, its about doing the LEAST harm

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:36 AM

Haha yeh Jae you may have a point there but you have taken my comment out of context. It would be good if you could actually just have a go instead of wasting time being critical ;) Melissa I don't know who you are or your story so I can't comment but I don't know anyone who has tried LFRV and like you said "done it right" and received bad results. I know all the people who have been in the movement since Doug wrote the book, so I probably know you too?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:36 AM

Ikco as far as science goes, it supports the lifestyle. Good Science does not support eating animal flesh, there is plenty of research out there. Good site to start...http://www.pcrm.org/. My mentoring costs vary. Lol Sarah haven't heard that one before ;D maybe I should just be a breatharian, on no but then I inhale bugs, can't do that. Then I should just starve to death. This lifestyle isn't about NOT harming, its about doing the LEAST harm.

8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on August 27, 2010
at 05:48 AM

I feel the same way. I am ex-vegan so I tend to think about it a lot. Ex-vegans are different from regular meat-eaters because we have an inside knowledge. But sometimes I feel like my veganism is still part of me, like it left a mark on my mind forever. Ironically eating animal products has allowed me to avoid all the processed soy products (probably made up half of my caloric intake) I was addicted to as a vegan and connect more with fruits and vegetables. I feel good eating a lot of fruit too. maybe I am becoming a vegan again, haha. not really though...I like to eat some meat and cheese.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 26, 2010
at 10:39 PM

@sarah-ann Are you taking those supps? Even on this diet I'm probably eating a bigger cross section of foods and for sure a cleaner diet/lifestyle than most of the people on here. 100% better than the average American. The only reason I see myself needing supplements, would be due to the added stress I'm putting on my body with exercise. I'm not even worried about that, because I can eat enough for four people if I want ;)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 26, 2010
at 09:40 PM

Some of us here have tried it.... but we didn't do it "right" I suppose if it didn't give us magically good health. If anyone has problems on 30BAD and quits that's the reaction from that community.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 26, 2010
at 05:12 PM

"Don't knock it 'till you try it" -- I have never had sex with goats or any other non-human mammals. Does that mean I can't judge?

8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on August 26, 2010
at 12:40 PM

When I was a vegan I killed bugs. And I was kind of lax on the no honey rule. But I stuck to purity when it came to every other animal product. I think there could be a lot of vegans like that. Even people who obsessively avoid animal products in packaging will still not care about insects. I got into a few debates though on the Internet with other vegans and a lot of them still held on to the insect rights view even though I didn't.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 26, 2010
at 12:13 PM

@grok, be aware that fitday is not complete in the nutrition RDA's. Missing is iodine and essential amino acids, also beta-carotene is considered equal to retinol which it is not. I'm glad you've found something that is working for you and well done on being really open minded, but I would advise you to take the supps Melissa suggested, even as insurance. Best of luck!

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 26, 2010
at 12:04 PM

"Don't knock it till you try it and best of all no animals are harmed during meal time." What, they don't kill bugs when they grow the fruit you eat? I think you'll find they kill hundreds. Poor bugs, their little lives cut short just because you selfishly wanted to eat fruit. Don't kid yourself.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on August 26, 2010
at 10:00 AM

Your dietary path is your choice and I respect that but "Don't knock it 'till you try it" might not be the best approach on site, where science comes first. Also, I'm curious how much do you charge for your online mentorship ?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2010
at 09:46 AM

Nice work Grok! You are rocking it, proof is in the banana budding :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2010
at 09:46 AM

It would be great if you could objectively quantify whether your muscles atrophied, you lost water weight or fat. Until you have a dexascan you don't know and are merely speculating. Muscles need to be used in order to grow, if you stop training them they will shrink.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 26, 2010
at 09:02 AM

@Eva " Being 'fit' is not the same thing as being 'healthy.' " Most certainly can be true. @Melissa "personally have trouble seeing the point of cycling 200 miles, but I'm admittedly a lazy person." - Me too. Some people don't see the point of being paleo. Different strokes for different folks. FYI: all those videos I was high fat and lower-carb ;) I traded in my meat for nuts, seeds, some quinoa, and some beans. I'm only done the one video not on my site as a high carber.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 25, 2010
at 08:28 AM

I don't need the supps. I do take a b12 & D just for good measure sometimes, but I get plenty of D from the sun at the moment. See my latest twitpic for my RDA chart: http://twitpic.com/photos/castlegrok I could eat a few brazilnuts to make up the extra few percent if I gave a crap. I beat my last 200 mile loop time by close to 1:45 (yes 1hr 45min). And that my friends is why I'm going to be fruitarian for a while.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 24, 2010
at 03:11 PM

You look better :) I would recommend also taking algal DHA, taurine, L-carnitine, L-lysine, and maybe making some of your fruit into jellies with gelatin (protein-sparing). Of course, take any supplements with the 10% fat you are getting.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on August 23, 2010
at 10:54 PM

Awesome, thanks!!!

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 21, 2010
at 02:56 AM

P.S. I'm not going to get underweight on any diet except maybe breatharian. Even then, I might be able to suck in more calories from flies than most people eat.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 21, 2010
at 02:52 AM

Just so everyone knows, I CRUSH the USRDA % numbers eating fruitarian. The only thing that shows deficient is B12. I'm not a moron, I'll take a supp (and I do) if I need it. If I begin having problems: A.) I'll re-evaluate my diet to see if I'm following the correct protocol. B.) I'll just go back to a high plant based paleo. Right now it's working better than anything, so I'm not changing back. Here's a video that wasn't filmed in the dark. I have a little more color in my skin ;) http://vimeo.com/13532420

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 09:07 PM

I under that it's been shown that higher D level improve calcium absorption. I don't know where it has been proven that it's fine to eat below the RDA. Could be wrong though, kindly provide link. Also, frutarians are not eating zero fat, just low fat. As long as they consume some fat, may be enough to digest other vitamins, especially if they are eating a ton of food. Just playing devil's advocate here, but my point is, do we really know how much of each vitamin and mineral is optimal for heath? I'd say not really.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 20, 2010
at 08:12 PM

Hey, if it works better for you, more power to you. I'm just trying to collect anecdotes from people who feel that it's working for them (or not).

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:58 PM

@Eva, except that, at least in the case of calcium, this as been proved and also demonstrated by Weston Price. Calcium absorption and metabolism is much more controlled by proper levels of fat soluble vitamins A, D and K2 than calcium consumption. Fruitarians are not just low in b12, they are low in all fat soluble vitamins and those vitamins are supposed to help with the absorption of a host of other vitamins and minerals.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:07 PM

OH and Melissa, I imagine fruitarians probably feel that the RDAs for b-12 are overrated and since they are on a healthier diet, their needs for b-12 are less. This is a familiar argument in paleo as well, but instead for calcium and magnesium.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:05 PM

Should be interesting to see how it pans out longer term.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 02:06 PM

Same for me. Felt good for the first few weeks and then it went downhill from there. Seven months later: severely underweight, protruded belly, diabetes symptoms, very low energy, losing my skin, no more libido and halted digestion. I felt that I had to end it or I would die. My ideas about a healthy diet where shattered.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 01:48 PM

Yeah, but it's also all sugar and no fat and no meat, it's just about the opposite of the paleo diet.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 01:47 PM

Yeah, I often still enjoy some raw vegan food. It surprises people to see me shop at the raw vegan shops :)

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 01:45 PM

@Ryan, I've tried multiple probiotics, some that need refrigeration and some that don't. I also tried most in very high dose. The well known ones I tried are Primal defense, Jarrow-Dophilus,Ohhira's, VSL#3, Bacillus coagulans, flora balance, LB17 and homemade yogurt and sauerkraut. Ohhira's made me feel worse because of the carrageen and vsl#3 made me feel worse probably because of the cornstarch. The only one that seem to work for me is LB17, even if it has the least bacterial count (33 million per caps). I'll also be trying culturelle on top of the LB17 because I read good things about it.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 12:38 PM

As a former all-fruiter I can say I definitely felt excellent for the beginning of the diet. My digestion was perfect, guess I don't have fructose intolerance. I think it takes some time for deficiencies like taurine and b12 to show up. Fruitarian guru Durianrider had his b12 levels tested by MSNHealth and they were extremely low. I would make sure you are doing this diet under the supervision of a doctor.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 12:34 PM

"Those last videos on my site I was still heavily caffeinated, sleeping an average of 4-5 hours a night, rode 200 miles in the sun..." Dude, I hope you stop doing this :) Not good for you on any diet.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on August 20, 2010
at 06:33 AM

@ Paleo Seb, I pretty much eat the same diet as you. I ended up being allergic to even grass fed/non soy fed eggs, I rarely eat pork or chicken and limit night shades and nuts. I mostly eat grass fed beef, seafood, grass fed lamb and vegetables. I also came to the diet because I had health problems. Ive been taking probiotics too but just standard ones. Are you taking the refrigerated kind?

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:59 AM

@Tim "I still don't know how eating fish/seafood, eggs and dairy is 'vegetarian'!" Me either. For the record, I love dairy more than the next guy. I'm swiss for crying out loud! I hate admitting it, but after I ditched dairy (95% raw) for a few months, then threw 100% raw back in, I found it's still highly inflammatory. That was the final nail in the dairy coffin for me. At least for the next few years.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:53 AM

Protein is overrated. Brad Pilon tweeted that he's only getting 50-60g a day. I'm getting anywhere from 70-110 pretty easily from just fruit.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 04:27 AM

yeah, personally have trouble seeing the point of cycling 200 miles, but I'm admittedly a lazy person. As long as I have a hard body and glowing skin, I'm pretty happy.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 04:26 AM

I've also seen many men in particular see improvements with these tweaks.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 03:44 AM

This matches my experience. Simply going Paleo didn't make me feel better. Something was wrong with me in the first place and I had to find out and tweak the diet (no eggs, no nuts, no fruits, no nightshades, grass-fed, mostly ruminants) to start seeing improvement. When someone has something really wrong going on, dialing in the diet like crazy is often the only way to go. I finally found out that my gut flora is completely out of wack and that I needed probiotics like crazy and now I see the light.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 03:14 AM

Good point. If you don't feel well, you may give up before trying it full bore and giving it a complete try out. Maybe that is also the point of what Castlegrok is doing. In the end, all the yakking and logic in the world mean nothing if it doesn't work for you. The only way for him to really understand fruitarianism is to do it. Maybe he wants to see how the experience jives with the logic.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 03:11 AM

Melissa, yeah good point. It's one thing to look tired, but you don't have to look actually sick and run down. There is a difference. Maybe carbs are allowing him to push himself further and in a less healthful way. Yes, he may get more performance, but there is probably a price to pay. Being 'fit' is not the same thing as being 'healthy.'

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 19, 2010
at 07:44 PM

Tim, I think most people look more hot after tough exercise.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 19, 2010
at 07:29 PM

I'm pretty sure Mark Sisson's wife is paleo without red meat/mammals. So: dairy, eggs, fish. Or at least I read that she was.

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on August 19, 2010
at 07:19 PM

I could see a paleo-veggie diet being healthful given the elimination of grains, veggie oils, and other processed food like items. For those vegetable/fruit based eaters that will include some fish/seafood, eggs and whole raw dairy, I'd not be surprised to find a healthful person. But I still don't know how eating fish/seafood, eggs and dairy is "vegetarian"!

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on August 19, 2010
at 07:01 PM

But to be fair, if we are discussing the same video, he just wrapped up 200 miles of hard pace cycling! That said, I think it'd be very interesting to get an HbA1c reading at the end of his raw-fruitarian stint, and then after 3 months back on Paleo....

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 19, 2010
at 05:28 PM

I think he could really hack his diet by including some collagen-rich animal products once a week or so. He's definitely losing weight, but not eating the ingredients that can help prevent sagging/sallowness.

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on August 19, 2010
at 04:52 PM

Melissa I think we posted at the same time. Sorry for the redundancy there...

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 19, 2010
at 04:07 PM

I wonder if he would have gotten the same faster recovery effect from just eating more fruit and veggies but still some meat. Seems like a common adaption of paleo for athletes. Or maybe he just wanted to experiment a bit and see what happens?

8e75344356f4a455185ee52da0b90bf2

on August 19, 2010
at 04:01 PM

OMG, this is the first I've heard of this. He looks TERRIBLE in that vid - very tired and drawn. I hope the experiment is almost over now.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 19, 2010
at 02:50 PM

This guy http://castlegrok.com/

F910318b9aa27b91bcf7881f39b9eabe

(1164)

on August 19, 2010
at 02:35 PM

Oh i sense somebody is gonna get hurt :P

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10 Answers

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18
9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

on August 20, 2010
at 03:51 AM

Going back to vegetarianism after a taste of Paleo would be like going back to live with my parents, it would be absurd.

D0a103cafaf4768c6dc69b1772a55877

(421)

on September 28, 2010
at 08:00 PM

Could not agree more.

7
Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on August 19, 2010
at 06:10 PM

I thought about it. After 7 or so months Paleo I still got back amd neck pain (inflammation) after I ate, would still get tired after meals, and hadn't lost any fat. Since the concept makes so much sense to me I refused to give up and and instead pulled the final trigger, switched my meat to grass fed/organic. This made a big difference and no longer get the aches and am less tired. I also switched to IF a la Lean Gains 3 weeks ago and am finally loosing fat. I now feel the best I've felt in 15 yrs. I also couldn't imagine getting enough protein on a vegan diet. If I don't get at least 0.75/g per LB I can have trouble concentrating and feel weak.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:53 AM

Protein is overrated. Brad Pilon tweeted that he's only getting 50-60g a day. I'm getting anywhere from 70-110 pretty easily from just fruit.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 03:44 AM

This matches my experience. Simply going Paleo didn't make me feel better. Something was wrong with me in the first place and I had to find out and tweak the diet (no eggs, no nuts, no fruits, no nightshades, grass-fed, mostly ruminants) to start seeing improvement. When someone has something really wrong going on, dialing in the diet like crazy is often the only way to go. I finally found out that my gut flora is completely out of wack and that I needed probiotics like crazy and now I see the light.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 01:45 PM

@Ryan, I've tried multiple probiotics, some that need refrigeration and some that don't. I also tried most in very high dose. The well known ones I tried are Primal defense, Jarrow-Dophilus,Ohhira's, VSL#3, Bacillus coagulans, flora balance, LB17 and homemade yogurt and sauerkraut. Ohhira's made me feel worse because of the carrageen and vsl#3 made me feel worse probably because of the cornstarch. The only one that seem to work for me is LB17, even if it has the least bacterial count (33 million per caps). I'll also be trying culturelle on top of the LB17 because I read good things about it.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 04:26 AM

I've also seen many men in particular see improvements with these tweaks.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on August 23, 2010
at 10:54 PM

Awesome, thanks!!!

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on August 20, 2010
at 06:33 AM

@ Paleo Seb, I pretty much eat the same diet as you. I ended up being allergic to even grass fed/non soy fed eggs, I rarely eat pork or chicken and limit night shades and nuts. I mostly eat grass fed beef, seafood, grass fed lamb and vegetables. I also came to the diet because I had health problems. Ive been taking probiotics too but just standard ones. Are you taking the refrigerated kind?

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 03:14 AM

Good point. If you don't feel well, you may give up before trying it full bore and giving it a complete try out. Maybe that is also the point of what Castlegrok is doing. In the end, all the yakking and logic in the world mean nothing if it doesn't work for you. The only way for him to really understand fruitarianism is to do it. Maybe he wants to see how the experience jives with the logic.

2
Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:43 AM

I was real food (but high grain) before going paleo the better part of two years. Then tried vegetarian (5 months some meat cheats), then vegan, few weeks of 'raw' (included eggs), then to low-fat raw vegan now last 9 weeks (minus 3 days 4th, July).

My first few weeks as a low-fat raw vegan were a little rough. It was when I discovered that I had some sort of allergy to watermelon that things starting turning around for me. I was eating a huge amount of watermelon and it was really taking a toll.

I've since started seeing improvements in everything including: speed, power, recovery, less joint pain, better breathing, less bloating/swelling, better overall mood, and way less end of day fatigue. I haven't even been wearing compression to aid recovery.

At this moment, I actually don't see myself going back. Sorry.

Current status: Increased my calorie intake by about 2k, decreased my training (not by choice ie work), and still hanging about the same weight. Setting new PRs just about every time I try. I also eat to satiety for the first time in my life. The days of dieting can suck on my balls!

As for my physical appearance in the videos... I work a lot, and sometimes train more hours that I sleep in a week. Those last videos on my site I was still heavily caffeinated, sleeping an average of 4-5 hours a night, rode 200 miles in the sun, and was following high-fat vegan. Basically paleo minus the meat. Not at all what I'm doing now.

I am requiring more sleep now, but that's probably because I do ZERO caffeine. Not even teas or kombucha.

Unless plans change, I'll be doing back-to-back 100s this weekend. I have a feeling I will crush the times I rode last time on the same route.

I'm still an advocate for paleo or any other real food diet for that matter. I'm not anti-meat. I do/try anything (food based) I think will make me perform better. Most people probably couldn't handle the social part of this diet. Think people think you're off your rocker when you tell them you're paleo? Try telling them, "No thanks, I eat only fruit."

Me personally... I could give a SH!T less what people think about me. I do this stuff for me, not anyone else. If they don't like it... they can go [email protected] themselves. I'm high on a ride to Kona, while they're depressed riding their couch ;)

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 21, 2010
at 02:56 AM

P.S. I'm not going to get underweight on any diet except maybe breatharian. Even then, I might be able to suck in more calories from flies than most people eat.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:07 PM

OH and Melissa, I imagine fruitarians probably feel that the RDAs for b-12 are overrated and since they are on a healthier diet, their needs for b-12 are less. This is a familiar argument in paleo as well, but instead for calcium and magnesium.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 02:06 PM

Same for me. Felt good for the first few weeks and then it went downhill from there. Seven months later: severely underweight, protruded belly, diabetes symptoms, very low energy, losing my skin, no more libido and halted digestion. I felt that I had to end it or I would die. My ideas about a healthy diet where shattered.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 28, 2010
at 06:46 AM

@sarah-ann, give me a break. Comparing my health/diet to barely above sad? I think you deserve an idiot award for that one. I have no doubt I'm healthier than you. How long have you been paleo? How much of your food do you kill with your own hands? When is the last time you ran over 125 miles a week or were able to do a ultra marathon? I'm sure I'll be just fine without my k2 rich butter for a while. As a matter of fact... I seem to be doing better since I stopped consuming it. I also ditched raw dairy for possibly the last time a few months ago. It's far too inflammatory.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 24, 2010
at 03:11 PM

You look better :) I would recommend also taking algal DHA, taurine, L-carnitine, L-lysine, and maybe making some of your fruit into jellies with gelatin (protein-sparing). Of course, take any supplements with the 10% fat you are getting.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 28, 2010
at 06:21 AM

@Melissa. Yes I realize this. I also realize that I consume more food that you and @Sarah-ann combined. Possibly a few of your friends tossed in there too ;)

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:05 PM

Should be interesting to see how it pans out longer term.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 09:07 PM

I under that it's been shown that higher D level improve calcium absorption. I don't know where it has been proven that it's fine to eat below the RDA. Could be wrong though, kindly provide link. Also, frutarians are not eating zero fat, just low fat. As long as they consume some fat, may be enough to digest other vitamins, especially if they are eating a ton of food. Just playing devil's advocate here, but my point is, do we really know how much of each vitamin and mineral is optimal for heath? I'd say not really.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:20 PM

@Grok, I don't doubt you're healthier than an average american, in fairness, that ain't hard! The reason I don't take those supps is that I get them from food. You can't do that so you need to replace them in supps, ain't no shame in it! Also forgot, where you getting your K2 mk4 from?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2010
at 09:46 AM

Nice work Grok! You are rocking it, proof is in the banana budding :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 12:38 PM

As a former all-fruiter I can say I definitely felt excellent for the beginning of the diet. My digestion was perfect, guess I don't have fructose intolerance. I think it takes some time for deficiencies like taurine and b12 to show up. Fruitarian guru Durianrider had his b12 levels tested by MSNHealth and they were extremely low. I would make sure you are doing this diet under the supervision of a doctor.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 20, 2010
at 08:12 PM

Hey, if it works better for you, more power to you. I'm just trying to collect anecdotes from people who feel that it's working for them (or not).

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 28, 2010
at 03:39 PM

Ahhh, now we're getting to the root of it. I've been nothing but civil but you call people who question what you're doing an idiot. How do you know you're healthier than me? I'm sat here chuckling at your arrogance tbh, like being able to run a marathon is any measure of health at all. Fructose is inflammatory too btw. Have a great life the both of you and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out..

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 12:34 PM

"Those last videos on my site I was still heavily caffeinated, sleeping an average of 4-5 hours a night, rode 200 miles in the sun..." Dude, I hope you stop doing this :) Not good for you on any diet.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:58 PM

@Eva, except that, at least in the case of calcium, this as been proved and also demonstrated by Weston Price. Calcium absorption and metabolism is much more controlled by proper levels of fat soluble vitamins A, D and K2 than calcium consumption. Fruitarians are not just low in b12, they are low in all fat soluble vitamins and those vitamins are supposed to help with the absorption of a host of other vitamins and minerals.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 21, 2010
at 02:52 AM

Just so everyone knows, I CRUSH the USRDA % numbers eating fruitarian. The only thing that shows deficient is B12. I'm not a moron, I'll take a supp (and I do) if I need it. If I begin having problems: A.) I'll re-evaluate my diet to see if I'm following the correct protocol. B.) I'll just go back to a high plant based paleo. Right now it's working better than anything, so I'm not changing back. Here's a video that wasn't filmed in the dark. I have a little more color in my skin ;) http://vimeo.com/13532420

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 26, 2010
at 12:13 PM

@grok, be aware that fitday is not complete in the nutrition RDA's. Missing is iodine and essential amino acids, also beta-carotene is considered equal to retinol which it is not. I'm glad you've found something that is working for you and well done on being really open minded, but I would advise you to take the supps Melissa suggested, even as insurance. Best of luck!

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 30, 2010
at 01:27 PM

Hey everyone, if y'all can't keep it civil, please don't post. Personally, I'm fine with snark, but calling people idiots is uncalled for.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 25, 2010
at 08:28 AM

I don't need the supps. I do take a b12 & D just for good measure sometimes, but I get plenty of D from the sun at the moment. See my latest twitpic for my RDA chart: http://twitpic.com/photos/castlegrok I could eat a few brazilnuts to make up the extra few percent if I gave a crap. I beat my last 200 mile loop time by close to 1:45 (yes 1hr 45min). And that my friends is why I'm going to be fruitarian for a while.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 10:35 AM

Yes I support the idiot award Grok. I don't think you will get far with the athletics question.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 26, 2010
at 10:39 PM

@sarah-ann Are you taking those supps? Even on this diet I'm probably eating a bigger cross section of foods and for sure a cleaner diet/lifestyle than most of the people on here. 100% better than the average American. The only reason I see myself needing supplements, would be due to the added stress I'm putting on my body with exercise. I'm not even worried about that, because I can eat enough for four people if I want ;)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:06 PM

Grok, you realize that the RDAs are imperfect estimates? Drawn up by governmental bodies? Very sad.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on September 11, 2010
at 09:32 PM

@sarah-ann, I see you answered none of my questions. Fructose... sure is. You pull that right from Taubes book or something? I know a little bit about inflammation. I used to be on 4 kinds of steriods to help tame it. Psst... I hate to be the one who breaks it to you, but there is a difference between orange soda, and an orange ;) Good luck with your fructose paranoia though.

2
691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on August 19, 2010
at 03:02 PM

I think we lost CastleGrok to the raw/vegan/vegitarian rabbit hole for a while http://castlegrok.com/ It all started as an experiment, I think as an idea to boost his performance in triathlon. He has said he will remain raw vegan till the end of the summer. I don't recommend such a path, he looks very tired in his raw vegan videos but he says he has been able to recover a lot better on the fruit based diet. He does say he is going back to paleo/primal after this experiment.

It would be interesting to hear his thoughts, perhaps his changes in blood numbers, body fat and muscle mass. (And of course an announcement of returning to the Grok lifestyle...)

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 20, 2010
at 03:11 AM

Melissa, yeah good point. It's one thing to look tired, but you don't have to look actually sick and run down. There is a difference. Maybe carbs are allowing him to push himself further and in a less healthful way. Yes, he may get more performance, but there is probably a price to pay. Being 'fit' is not the same thing as being 'healthy.'

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 19, 2010
at 07:44 PM

Tim, I think most people look more hot after tough exercise.

8e75344356f4a455185ee52da0b90bf2

on August 19, 2010
at 04:01 PM

OMG, this is the first I've heard of this. He looks TERRIBLE in that vid - very tired and drawn. I hope the experiment is almost over now.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 04:27 AM

yeah, personally have trouble seeing the point of cycling 200 miles, but I'm admittedly a lazy person. As long as I have a hard body and glowing skin, I'm pretty happy.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 19, 2010
at 05:28 PM

I think he could really hack his diet by including some collagen-rich animal products once a week or so. He's definitely losing weight, but not eating the ingredients that can help prevent sagging/sallowness.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 19, 2010
at 04:07 PM

I wonder if he would have gotten the same faster recovery effect from just eating more fruit and veggies but still some meat. Seems like a common adaption of paleo for athletes. Or maybe he just wanted to experiment a bit and see what happens?

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 26, 2010
at 09:02 AM

@Eva " Being 'fit' is not the same thing as being 'healthy.' " Most certainly can be true. @Melissa "personally have trouble seeing the point of cycling 200 miles, but I'm admittedly a lazy person." - Me too. Some people don't see the point of being paleo. Different strokes for different folks. FYI: all those videos I was high fat and lower-carb ;) I traded in my meat for nuts, seeds, some quinoa, and some beans. I'm only done the one video not on my site as a high carber.

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on August 19, 2010
at 07:01 PM

But to be fair, if we are discussing the same video, he just wrapped up 200 miles of hard pace cycling! That said, I think it'd be very interesting to get an HbA1c reading at the end of his raw-fruitarian stint, and then after 3 months back on Paleo....

1
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on August 19, 2011
at 03:14 AM

I tried several variations of vegetarian diets before going paleo, and didn't do well. I won't ever go back.

Turns out my persistent digestive and skin problems were caused by grains/fruits/nuts/excess fiber. My body does not make much of an effort to digest raw foods (comes out the other end intact, sometimes). Plus my blood sugar is wonky, so I can't get a majority of my calories from starch. And, no matter my diet I have been persistently underweight, and very lean. When I was veganish I weighed 95 lbs, now I weigh about 105 (still underweight but a huge improvement). Lots of animal fat, protein, and as much easily digestible starch as I can handle without crashing seems to be the best solution for me in a lot of ways.

I think I could easily die in a couple months doing the 30BaD deal. No doubt some people can handle it, and I have a lot of regular vegan friends who seem to be thriving, but my body seems to be more fragile. I made the mistake of eating 2-4 fresh peaches daily (best peaches ever) for a few days last month and paid for it with the shits, and eczema which is still flaring.

I am pretty sure I have fructose malabsorption.

1
Bef711b77bf731b9f8cbefa9beb86fd1

on August 19, 2011
at 12:06 AM

I went from doing the Atkins diet for two years (which is sort of like eating paleo) to being a vegan for the last seven years. The thing that changed my mind was getting a job in an animal shelter. I couldn't see myself helping animals on the one hand while eating them on the other. From an ethical perspective, I don't see any difference between eating a cow vs. eating a dog. They're all sentient creatures who have an interest in avoiding pain and death.

As far as I can tell, my health didn't change after I became vegan, although I did gain some weight (which I have since lost again). I don't regret the change from carnivore to vegan. My wife is a vegan, too, and we try to hang out with other vegans. (By the way, I'm not a big fan of ovo-lacto-vegetarianism, since there is more cruelty in a glass of milk or an egg than there is in a steak.)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 19, 2011
at 12:37 AM

I think people are less likely to go from paleo to veganism since a lot of paleos are former vegans and paleo has a ecological philosophy that is often attached to it

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 19, 2011
at 01:53 AM

Great to hear from the vegans Alex. Everyone at my local animal shelter where I volunteer is vegan. Every last person. I imagine if I worked there I would do it too. Or at least stop eating meat. I am leaning more and more towards seafood for protein for ethical reasons but have to admit I really seem to need some beef every now and again or I start to feel like crap. I have gone vegetarian many times and vegan once and just felt horrible on those diets.

1
8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on August 20, 2010
at 05:33 AM

There are people who go from vegan to paleo. I would imagine it would be hard to go back to veganism after that.

I'm an ex-vegan. But I have become interested in raw veganism, only because I like how creative their food is. Just look at some of Jennifer Cornbleet's videos. The raw foodists can make some amazing stuff. And it's all grain-free.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 20, 2010
at 01:47 PM

Yeah, I often still enjoy some raw vegan food. It surprises people to see me shop at the raw vegan shops :)

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 20, 2010
at 01:48 PM

Yeah, but it's also all sugar and no fat and no meat, it's just about the opposite of the paleo diet.

0
Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 27, 2010
at 05:27 AM

I thought it was a little far out there too. I'd heard Fruitarian was the most inflammatory diet out there. I'm deadly afraid of anything inflammatory with my medical history. Once I was vegan for a while and noticed my joints were better despite ditching my beloved CLO and/or fish oils, I started to get a little more interested.

Fruity Vegan a realfood diet. Can't we all just get along and fight the real enemy... processed foods!

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 30, 2010
at 03:40 AM

BTW the PCRM and the vegan nutritionists dislike the 801010 crowd immensely because it's not supported by science either. If you want to be a responsible vegan I suggest checking out Jack Norris' work.

8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on August 27, 2010
at 05:48 AM

I feel the same way. I am ex-vegan so I tend to think about it a lot. Ex-vegans are different from regular meat-eaters because we have an inside knowledge. But sometimes I feel like my veganism is still part of me, like it left a mark on my mind forever. Ironically eating animal products has allowed me to avoid all the processed soy products (probably made up half of my caloric intake) I was addicted to as a vegan and connect more with fruits and vegetables. I feel good eating a lot of fruit too. maybe I am becoming a vegan again, haha. not really though...I like to eat some meat and cheese.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 30, 2010
at 01:58 PM

Freelee - I beleive she has those balls of which you speak. http://huntgatherlove.com/content/feast

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 28, 2010
at 03:32 PM

Plenty of well conducted science showing sat fat is good for you. Might want to actually do some research yourself Freelee. Don't you think it's strange that no natural human diet is completely fruitarian? Not like they don't have the option, why do you think that is? Isn't it great we can have this conversation? Certainly couldn't do it on your website. You only allow people who agree with you to register.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:42 AM

Stancel follow your intuition I say :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:01 PM

Most of the fights involving fruitarians vs. omnivores on raw boards were about animal rights. I hope you are able to avoid that aspect.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:04 PM

Since 801010 people believe eating animals = evil, I don't see how we could ever get along. I feel the same way about you promoting this diet as I feel about the ketogenic people. Both diets tend to have amazing short term results, but science does not support long term efficacy.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 10:33 AM

Does science support your saturated fat lifestyle Melissa? Ofcourse not. Let me know when you get the balls to actually start killing your meals yourself.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 27, 2010
at 07:38 AM

@Stancel. Can't blame the diet if your not eating real food. I love Jimmy Moore, but look at how he blew up when he started eating low-carb franken-products. Congrats on getting off the soy and onto meat! That soy is some wicked bad stuff!

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 30, 2010
at 03:39 AM

Ha, I do kill my meals myself sometimes. I've killed plenty of animals.

Da397846a2cfad231a1122126bb6eda7

(227)

on August 31, 2010
at 02:10 AM

Gadzooks! I just went to an 80/10/10 website to see what they're talking about. I can barely tolerate 1 pound of fruit in a month, and they recommend eating 6 pounds of fruit in a day... I don't think I'm a good candidate for that. Eeeek!

0
Ab0369a70755bd07f44292b4ca8b2260

on August 24, 2010
at 06:31 AM

Have been a vegan, even raw vegan in past. Now do Paleo without meat, chicken, etc. I do eat fish and eggs.

Raw it a tough lifestyle and I did loose a lot of weight, but also a lot of muscle mass.
I did feel very good on it and had a lot of energy.

Now, I am gaining weight (muscle) but at a frightening rate and would prefer to actually take off 10lbs so am experimenting with cutting out food items.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 28, 2010
at 07:06 AM

...and when you're low on energy, you stop using them. Your body is probably finally getting the calories/protein it wants for energy and growth, and is now rewarding you. I'm getting 70-90g protein daily almost entirely from a variety of fruits alone. Thats about the equivalent to 4-5 cans of tuna, or 12 eggs, or 2 6oz chicken breasts, or 3 4oz salmon fillets, or 10oz steak. Thats more than a lot of regular paleo people will eat (maybe not guys). It ends up being about .5% per lb of bodyweight.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2010
at 09:46 AM

It would be great if you could objectively quantify whether your muscles atrophied, you lost water weight or fat. Until you have a dexascan you don't know and are merely speculating. Muscles need to be used in order to grow, if you stop training them they will shrink.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on August 28, 2010
at 07:11 AM

The protein/aminos in fruit is easily digested and pushed in by carbs and also not destroyed by processing, which means I'm probably needing less than I needed before anyway. Most vegans don't open their mouths wide enough, eat gourmet, and consume crappy soy frankenfoods. That's why they're all skinny, gaunt and have deficiencies/health issues.

-2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2010
at 09:42 AM

Grok's on my site and he is doing really well on this lifestyle. www.30bananasaday.com

I've been doing a 100% low fat raw vegan lifestyle since 2007, I eat up to 50 bananas in one day.. here is a video...

http://www.youtube.com/freelea#p/u/0/8UK-aX0_fAw

I also have lots of info on the lifestyle here.. www.sweetjuicyfreelee.com

Don't knock it till you try it and best of all no animals are harmed during meal time.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 26, 2010
at 12:04 PM

"Don't knock it till you try it and best of all no animals are harmed during meal time." What, they don't kill bugs when they grow the fruit you eat? I think you'll find they kill hundreds. Poor bugs, their little lives cut short just because you selfishly wanted to eat fruit. Don't kid yourself.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:37 AM

Ikco as far as science goes, it supports the lifestyle. Good Science does not support eating animal flesh, there is plenty of research out there. Good site to start...pcrm.org. My mentoring costs vary.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:40 AM

Haha yeh Jae you may have a point there but you have taken my comment out of context. It would be good if you could actually just have a go instead of wasting time being critical ;)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 04:41 AM

Oh god Sarah-ann are you serious? Not worth my time.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 04:40 AM

Ooh that's quite nasty Melissa. It's obvious that you didn't even do the lifestyle or else you would share the details, ah well you're a dime a dozen - probably ate cooked food the whole time, sorry that's not 811. I did go to college actually, best to get your facts right. Oh god Sarah-ann are you serious? Not worth my time.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 28, 2010
at 04:41 AM

Ooh that's quite nasty Melissa. It's obvious that you didn't even do the lifestyle or else you would share the details, ah well you're a dime a dozen - probably ate cooked food the whole time, sorry that's not 811. I did go to college actually, best to get your facts right.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on August 26, 2010
at 10:00 AM

Your dietary path is your choice and I respect that but "Don't knock it 'till you try it" might not be the best approach on site, where science comes first. Also, I'm curious how much do you charge for your online mentorship ?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 26, 2010
at 09:40 PM

Some of us here have tried it.... but we didn't do it "right" I suppose if it didn't give us magically good health. If anyone has problems on 30BAD and quits that's the reaction from that community.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:36 AM

Ikco as far as science goes, it supports the lifestyle. Good Science does not support eating animal flesh, there is plenty of research out there. Good site to start...http://www.pcrm.org/. My mentoring costs vary. Lol Sarah haven't heard that one before ;D maybe I should just be a breatharian, on no but then I inhale bugs, can't do that. Then I should just starve to death. This lifestyle isn't about NOT harming, its about doing the LEAST harm.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:23 PM

@Freelee, so explain to me how vegan logic works. One cow can feed 50 people, several bugs need to die for one banana. How many bugs lives is one cow 'worth'? Is there some kind of conversion table somewhere?

8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on August 26, 2010
at 12:40 PM

When I was a vegan I killed bugs. And I was kind of lax on the no honey rule. But I stuck to purity when it came to every other animal product. I think there could be a lot of vegans like that. Even people who obsessively avoid animal products in packaging will still not care about insects. I got into a few debates though on the Internet with other vegans and a lot of them still held on to the insect rights view even though I didn't.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 26, 2010
at 05:12 PM

"Don't knock it 'till you try it" -- I have never had sex with goats or any other non-human mammals. Does that mean I can't judge?

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on August 27, 2010
at 07:03 AM

If pcrm.org is your definition of good science, then this discussion is over. Be well.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:46 AM

Haha yeh Jae you may have a point there but you have taken my comment out of context and I did not say "don't knock ANYTHING till you try it". It would be good if you could actually just have a go instead of wasting time being critical ;)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:05 PM

Haha, people don't have to be members of 30BAD to follow low-fat raw fruit based diets. You don't know everything Freelee. Maybe instead of trolling teh interweb you and the Durianrider should enroll in college.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:37 AM

Lol Sarah haven't heard that one before ;D maybe I should just be a breatharian, on no but then I inhale bugs, can't do that. Then I should just starve to death. This lifestyle isn't about NOT harming, its about doing the LEAST harm

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:36 AM

Haha yeh Jae you may have a point there but you have taken my comment out of context. It would be good if you could actually just have a go instead of wasting time being critical ;) Melissa I don't know who you are or your story so I can't comment but I don't know anyone who has tried LFRV and like you said "done it right" and received bad results. I know all the people who have been in the movement since Doug wrote the book, so I probably know you too?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 27, 2010
at 02:08 PM

Based on Grok's blog he never tried orthodox paleo approach either, so his old results might not reflect paleo very well. Dairy = not paleo.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on August 27, 2010
at 04:59 PM

Freelee -- I don't think you understood my point.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 27, 2010
at 06:37 AM

Melissa I don't know who you are or your story so I can't comment but I don't know anyone who has tried LFRV and like you said "done it right" and received bad results. I know all the people who have been in the movement since Doug wrote the book, so I probably know you too?

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 28, 2010
at 03:33 PM

Really, I'm serious. I really would love an insight into how you deal with that paradox. Are you just speciesist or what?

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