3

votes

Phytates and oxalates in vegetables?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 02, 2011 at 12:00 PM

Is there a list of this? I'm absolutely curious!

Medium avatar

(115)

on April 30, 2013
at 12:22 PM

the link is dead.

Medium avatar

(115)

on April 30, 2013
at 12:10 PM

Korion +1. Why?

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on April 21, 2013
at 03:40 PM

+1 for that yahoo group

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on April 21, 2013
at 03:32 PM

Yes on mag citrate,no on mag oxide. Yes on calcium citrate

B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on November 21, 2011
at 03:27 PM

Be careful of the lists about oxalate content on the internet (see my answer below). Most are inaccurate and contradictory which can be very frustrating if you really have an oxalate problem and are trying to decrease oxalate in your diet.

B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on November 21, 2011
at 03:15 PM

I disagree with a lot of your oxalate advice here. Dairy itself does not block oxalate. It's the calcium which binds with the oxalate and helps take it out of the body. There is not enough calcium in dairy to take huge amounts of oxalate out (such as found in almonds, spinach and chocolate). People who are sensitive to oxalate (such as myself), should not be eating high oxalate foods. Taking calcium citrate or magnesium citrate with medium or low oxalate foods, however, will help remove some oxalate -- enough to keep the person from having severe problems.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 07:10 PM

THANKS!!! That list is great! Just wondering : why did you write 0.22% in the wikipedia article while the book says it's 0.01-0.07%?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on September 02, 2011
at 05:13 PM

OK added spinach, I'll add cabbage and green beans later.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 04:42 PM

Wait... are you able to get data from any plant? I'd like information for green beans, cabbage and spinach. If that's a lot of work for you, don't bother, I don't wanna take any of your time.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 03:10 PM

Well I love all vegetables. Nuts are out of the question : I get acne if I eat raw ones. I know it's a silly fear, but while I'm working on my health : why not try to make it perfect? I'm simply trying to chose the right vegetables for me (it's not like I prefer one vegetables over the other anyways). Thanks for the great answer though!

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on September 02, 2011
at 01:26 PM

Oops--thanks, Korion. Fixed now.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 01:25 PM

That's a great article!! You didn't write the second hyperlink right though :) Thanks a lot!

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on September 02, 2011
at 12:53 PM

Let's all recall Mat LaLonde's talk from AHS. The benefits of almost all veggies outweight he risk. Phytates are mostly inactivated by cooking. The benefits from the antioxidants and nitrites in the veggies confer tremendous benefit. Unless oxalates are causing inflammation or other health issues, don't stop eating them.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 12:28 PM

Thanks, oak0y! I actually read that already, they only mention that broccoli, carrots and artichokes contain phytates. I don't like the taste of broccoli anymore so I'm not eating them anyways, but I'm curious to see if other vegetables have phytates... I'm not gonna stop eating spinach because of the oxalates, that'd be stupid. I just want to make better choices all the time.

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7 Answers

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5
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on September 02, 2011
at 04:36 PM

I've added a few vegetables and roots to the Phytic Acid wikipedia article, not because I worry about phytic acid, but because I share Alexandra's opinion and I wanted to refute the idea that only grains and seeds contain phytic acid. If you would like to request data for a plant, just ask in the comments. Not too many please though since I don't have that much free time lately.

OK, yeah editing wikipedia takes forever because it's such a pain to format, but here's a useful chart from this book

phytates-and-oxalates-in-vegetables?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 04:42 PM

Wait... are you able to get data from any plant? I'd like information for green beans, cabbage and spinach. If that's a lot of work for you, don't bother, I don't wanna take any of your time.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on September 02, 2011
at 05:13 PM

OK added spinach, I'll add cabbage and green beans later.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 07:10 PM

THANKS!!! That list is great! Just wondering : why did you write 0.22% in the wikipedia article while the book says it's 0.01-0.07%?

Medium avatar

(115)

on April 30, 2013
at 12:10 PM

Korion +1. Why?

7
27361737e33ba2f73ab3c25d2699ad61

(1880)

on September 02, 2011
at 02:52 PM

I think the fear of oxalates and phytates is overblown. If one is predisposed to certain kind of kidney stone, a low oxalate diet may help -- I say may -- because it is not successful for everyone. Some women find relief from vulvar pain and/or cystitis by eating a low oxalate diet but this strategy does not work for everyone. There appears to be a wide variety of sensitivity to oxalates. Also, certain spices such as turmeric can impact the excretion of oxalates in the urine. Even with an oxalate sensitivity, one could alleviate some problems by eating the high oxalate food with a bit of dairy -- perhaps this why some traditional dishes with the very high oxalate veggie, spinach, is often paired with cheese. Alternatively, one could dilute the oxalate effect by drinking extra water -- I spoke with a nephrologist friend who himself is prone to kidney stones (familial) and he loves the high oxalate foods -- especially chocolate, almonds, and spinach -- his motto is dilute, dilute dilute and of course modify portions. Supplementing with magnesium citrate or oxide may help as well. As for the phytate issue -- I go back and forth on this as I love raw nuts -- very high in phytates. With all the dire warnings about how they block minerals, I've decided to put this in the same category as oxalates -- individual sensitivities and make-up of the rest of one's diet would dictate amount of consumption. As a lover of huge amounts of raw nuts -- I have no evidence of mineral deficiency and I do not eat dairy any more. I haven't had Dr. Kruse's recommended mag test yet but all previous ionized mag and calcium tests have been ideal. I have painfree menstrual periods and never get headaches or body aches etc that could indicate mineral deficiency. I am nearly half a century old and do not have a single cavity. Raw nuts digest easily for me. So do dry roasted. Huge amounts -- no stomach distress whatsoever. There is also evidence that phytates may have health benefits. I think the danger of isolating elements in foods like phytates and oxalates while ignoring the rest of the health and pleasure benefits of the food could lead one down the same path as pathological fear of omega-6 or fructose which leads people to shun walnuts and pears. If you love certain foods that are high in oxalates and phytates and are concerned -- simply cut back on portions and frequency.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 03:10 PM

Well I love all vegetables. Nuts are out of the question : I get acne if I eat raw ones. I know it's a silly fear, but while I'm working on my health : why not try to make it perfect? I'm simply trying to chose the right vegetables for me (it's not like I prefer one vegetables over the other anyways). Thanks for the great answer though!

B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on November 21, 2011
at 03:15 PM

I disagree with a lot of your oxalate advice here. Dairy itself does not block oxalate. It's the calcium which binds with the oxalate and helps take it out of the body. There is not enough calcium in dairy to take huge amounts of oxalate out (such as found in almonds, spinach and chocolate). People who are sensitive to oxalate (such as myself), should not be eating high oxalate foods. Taking calcium citrate or magnesium citrate with medium or low oxalate foods, however, will help remove some oxalate -- enough to keep the person from having severe problems.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on April 21, 2013
at 03:32 PM

Yes on mag citrate,no on mag oxide. Yes on calcium citrate

3
B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on November 21, 2011
at 03:24 PM

Most lists on the internet (or even given in doctors offices) that list the oxalate content of foods are wrong. They do not reflect new, more reliable testing methods or they don't reflect true, reasonable portion sizes (e.g. black pepper is often considered high oxalate because 100 grams of it is high oxalate. But most people only eat about half a gram or less at a meal which is a low oxalate serving.)

The two most reliable and comprehensive lists are available in the Low Oxalate Cookbook Book 2 published by the Vulvar Pain Foundation http://thevpfoundation.org/vpfcookbook.htm

and in the file section of the yahoo.group, Trying Low Oxalates http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/

A reliable, but not comprehensive list can also be found at http://www.lowoxalate.info/recipes.html

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on April 21, 2013
at 03:40 PM

+1 for that yahoo group

2
3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on September 02, 2011
at 01:12 PM

Not a list, per se, but a pretty in-depth discussion of the plant kingdom's chemical arsenal here: http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/plants-bite-back

And one of my favorite book passages, from Susan Allport's The Primal Feast, here: http://tinyurl.com/6cdzwjm

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 01:25 PM

That's a great article!! You didn't write the second hyperlink right though :) Thanks a lot!

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on September 02, 2011
at 01:26 PM

Oops--thanks, Korion. Fixed now.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on September 02, 2011
at 12:53 PM

Let's all recall Mat LaLonde's talk from AHS. The benefits of almost all veggies outweight he risk. Phytates are mostly inactivated by cooking. The benefits from the antioxidants and nitrites in the veggies confer tremendous benefit. Unless oxalates are causing inflammation or other health issues, don't stop eating them.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on September 02, 2011
at 12:28 PM

Thanks, oak0y! I actually read that already, they only mention that broccoli, carrots and artichokes contain phytates. I don't like the taste of broccoli anymore so I'm not eating them anyways, but I'm curious to see if other vegetables have phytates... I'm not gonna stop eating spinach because of the oxalates, that'd be stupid. I just want to make better choices all the time.

Medium avatar

(115)

on April 30, 2013
at 12:22 PM

the link is dead.

0
27361737e33ba2f73ab3c25d2699ad61

(1880)

on November 21, 2011
at 05:24 PM

@ Heidi

Hi Heidi,

Obviously if one has a known problem with oxalates than avoidance is always an option. The advice I gave was not "mine," it came from a kidney specialist friend who himself is a stone former (different stones require different diet/supplements and nothing works 100% for everyone). He loves nuts and chocolate and has found that diluting with lots of water and eating a bit of cheese with his nuts and chocolate prevent stone formation in him. He did not say that he can eat huge amounts of problem foods -- I specifically mention modyfiying portions. If one can live entirely without oxalate foods -- fine-- but not everyone is willing or even needs to do this. For many, the devil is in the dose.

Becoming dehydrated while also eating many high oxalate foods (many of the highest such as spinach, okra, dandelion greens, eggplant) are summer foods and even a person with no previous oxalate issues could develop an issue if that person does not stay well hydrated especially when following a low carb diet as such a diet has a natural diuretic effect. Thus the urine could become too concentrated. Unsuspected confounding causes such as using therapeutic doses of cinnamon and turmeric can also greatly increase oxalate secretion in the urine and cause discomfort if not stones in some people. Operative word "some." Some simply do not feel discomfort of form stones no matter how many oxalates they ingest or excrete in their urine. I had a problem 2 summers when I was not careful to hydrate sufficiently. Stones are much more common in the summer months and in tropical or hot regions precisely because it's harder to maintain water volume in the body.

But if you can live life happily avoiding oxalates -- then go for it. I just do not believe that is necessary for everyone -- it wasn't for me. Your mileage may vary. Ditto for gals with pelvic pain -- some find relief cutting oxalates and others find no such benefit.

0
27361737e33ba2f73ab3c25d2699ad61

(1880)

on September 02, 2011
at 03:30 PM

Regarding the nuts -- I forgot to mention that another previous concern of mine from reading articles by the "nuts are anti-nutrients and must be specially soaked prepared" crowd was that the phytates could cause calcium deposits in arteries or other unwanted places. But then I read that Dr. Davis (Heartscan blog) eats unlimited amounts of raw almonds and scans himself -- no problems. Every food has pluses and minuses. Heat treating the nuts damages/alters the fats. The fiber in the nuts makes a significant part of the caloric content unavailable. Dr. Davis had a nice piece on this on his blog. But if nuts cause reactions -- ditch em. My husband gets swollen throat with any raw nut-- worst is walnuts for him -- but dry roasted he can tolerate almonds. My problem is I love them and can eat copious amounts. Here's where I agree with the food reward theory -- especially the whole experience of cracking fresh hazelnuts -- delicious and fun.

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