8

votes

I hate vegetables.

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 04, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Alright, so...I've been struggling to get my veggies in. However, please let me preface by saying I was a vegetarian/vegan for many, many years and I'm kind of fed up with veggies and I'm just happy to not be munching on a plain salad... That being said... Is it okay if I'm eating meat and mainly fruit? I know everyone says the carb content in fruit is really high but I'm not too worried about that because nothing is carb heavier than a vegan diet! I just want to know if I'll be healthy enough with mainly fruit and meat? On a sidenote: My family are direct descendants from Nordic Vikings and I've been careful to mainly replicate what kinds of fruit they ate (to be kind to my own biological makeup) and throw some starchy tubers in there occasionally when I'm hurting for it. Long story short: Are vegetables absolutely a daily necessity? Thanks!

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 05, 2013
at 04:34 AM

Hot bacon grease puts a nice wilt on spinach salad.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 05, 2013
at 04:33 AM

There was never a good explanation for my mom's taste in salad dressings.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on March 05, 2013
at 04:07 AM

Aged cheese has vitamin K as well.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 05, 2013
at 03:19 AM

I recently had a wound and it healed quickly. I have beef liver once a week which has some vitamin K.

6ddb22a034e1a4e3a96d9f1907bb37e2

(302)

on March 05, 2013
at 02:03 AM

"Although I personally seem to do fine without supplementing." unless you have withstood a bleed, such as some sort of trauma, I wouldn't go around saying that. Vitamin K's major purpose in the body is blood clotting, if bleeding does arise you better hope you have enough. I have known those who have hemorrhaged at least in part to vitamin K deficiency. its a recommendation (you can opt out) to all newly born babies, this is suggestive of its importance in an emergency situation and in overall healing & recovery (i.e bruises).

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 05, 2013
at 01:08 AM

+1 for veggies in animal fats. Bacon fat, lamb fat, goose or duck fat if you can get your hands on it... amazing.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 10:48 PM

That contradicts what I said only under certain definitions of "restricted".

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on March 04, 2013
at 10:47 PM

Oh, yes cocoa powder. Got. As for the eggs, I have an email with Ray Peat from 2 years ago where he says that eggs should be restricted because of their insulinogenic amino acids and omega 6.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:49 PM

@thhq, I was following you until you mentioned Miracle Whip in the cottage cheese. Blech! =)

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:36 PM

Cocoa powder, which is the way I eat chocolate, is 0,44% PUFA (all omega-6). The amount of PUFA in eggs depends on what they are fed. They typically have 0.7 grams, which is not ideal, but whatever damage they do is compensated by their content of nutrients, including selenium and choline. Ray Peat by the way eats 2 eggs per day even in the U.S., because that's the best option, considering everything.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:34 PM

Cocoa powder, which is the way I eat chocolate, is 0,44% PUFA (all omega-6). The amount of PUFA in eggs depend on what they are fed. They typically have 0.7 grams, which is not ideal, but whatever damage they do is compensated by their content of nutrients, including selenium and choline. Ray Peat by the way eats 2 eggs per day even in the U.S., because that's the best option, considering everything.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:32 PM

Cocoa powder, which is the way I eat chocolate, is 0,44% PUFA (all omega-6). The amount of PUFA in eggs depend on what they are feed. They typically have 0.7 grams, which is not ideal, but whatever damage they do is compensated by their content of nutrients, including selenium and choline. Ray Peat by the way eats 2 eggs per day even in the U.S., because that's the best option, considering everything.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:29 PM

Cocoa powder, which is the way I eat chocolate, is 0,44% PUFA. The amount of PUFA on eggs depend on what they are feed. They typically have 0.7 grams, which is not ideal, but whatever damage they do is compensated by their content of nutrients, including selenium and choline. Ray Peat by the way eats 2 eggs per day even in the U.S., because that's the best option available considering everything.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:24 PM

You're misinformed.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:11 PM

chocolate? Isn't that a little high in omega 6 for you Peatarians? I don't think Dr. Peat would approve. Neither does he actually approve of eggs. But they taste good so why not, right?

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:08 PM

Why is fructose bad long term? That sounds unlikely. We need some sort of sugar for energy. Otherwise, we create them from other things, such as protein, but that requires the release of stress hormones, such as cortisol. So it's good to have always sugar, and fructose is better than glucose.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:07 PM

Why is fructose bad long term? That sounds unlikely. We need some sort of energy. Otherwise, we create them from other things, such as protein, but that requires the release of stress hormones, such as cortisol. So it's good to have always sugar, and fructose is better than glucose.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 08:54 PM

"Is it okay if I'm eating meat and mainly fruit? " I think it's fine, although I would add dairy, or at least eggshell powder for the calcium.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 04, 2013
at 08:10 PM

Dang the spell-minder...mother, not motet.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 04, 2013
at 08:09 PM

Scandinavians had root vegetables. But Oslo isn't Salinas. When I was growing up my Norwegian motet's concept of salad was cottage cheese and a piece of canned fruit with Miracle Whip. Green salad was related to the color of the Jello, which sometimes had grated carrots in it.

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on March 04, 2013
at 02:43 PM

So true, after going paleo i grew tired of salads, but if i add enough avocado, nuts, cheese etc to to salad it becomes much more palatable, and even steamed veggies in butter are delicious. Roasted veggies are awesome!

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14 Answers

7
Medium avatar

on March 04, 2013
at 07:59 PM

Vegetables provide complementary nutrition that is more difficult to get from a purely animal-based diet. It's much easier to consume adequate amounts of folate, manganese, choline, copper and thiamin if you eat some greens or peas. If you try to eat enough liver to hit all of those targets every day, you'll be consuming absurd amounts of preformed vitamin A (retinol), plus you'll be eating a bunch of liver all the time. Just steam them and add salt and the greens will shrink down to a few mouthfuls and be delicious.

You could check to see if the specific fruit you're eating is supplying sufficient amounts of those nutrients, but it's better to overshoot anyway since it's unclear just how much of the nutrients listed in the government databases are actually still present in the food.

5
Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on March 04, 2013
at 01:42 PM

Have you tried getting more fat with your veg? I think a lot of vegans go for the raw salad type deal, but I find there's a world of difference between that and some nice Swiss chard of kale sauteed in coconut oil/beef tallow/bacon fat. Totally different flavor and texture. Or you could try cooking the veggies with the meat (like a nice roast with some beets and carrots in the dish) so they take on the flavor and some of the juices.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on March 05, 2013
at 01:08 AM

+1 for veggies in animal fats. Bacon fat, lamb fat, goose or duck fat if you can get your hands on it... amazing.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 05, 2013
at 04:34 AM

Hot bacon grease puts a nice wilt on spinach salad.

De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

(777)

on March 04, 2013
at 02:43 PM

So true, after going paleo i grew tired of salads, but if i add enough avocado, nuts, cheese etc to to salad it becomes much more palatable, and even steamed veggies in butter are delicious. Roasted veggies are awesome!

2
B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on March 05, 2013
at 03:13 AM

Could this be a seasonal thing? Do you live in a cold climate? I find in the winter, especially with snow on the ground, that I mostly want to eat onions and tubers roasted in a lot of animal fat or greens boiled with onions and a lot of animal fat. I like them hot and savory and not too much of them. I also drink a lot of tea (mostly herbal and red bush) which is also a good way to get the phytonutrients and antioxidants from "veggies" and is also particularly satisfying in winter. I only want to eat a lot of veggies, especially raw veggies and salads in the summer when it's hot. They become magically appetizing again. This is a common and natural seasonal pattern, and may be what you're experiencing.

If eating some very non-vegan roasted butternut squash, carrots or sweet potatoes with onion, garlic and lard or bacon fat sounds good to you, go for it! If not, give yourself some slack. You'll probably start wanting to eat more vegetables as the weather heats up. If not, you can revisit whether to be worried or not about your lack of veggies and how to compensate then.

2
0c875e97044bf838a074470caa5d630d

on March 05, 2013
at 12:28 AM

What are your goals? If you're trying to lose weight, it's going to be more difficult because fruit has more calories and sugar than veggies. If you're only concerned about vitamins and minerals, you should be ok with mostly fruit instead of veggies.

But I will say, try some anti-vegetarian style veggies (aka roasted with delicious meat fat) and see if you still hate vegetables!

2
0408fb6c082971b0559503b77eb9483c

on March 04, 2013
at 03:17 PM

I don't really think vegetables are an absolute daily necessity, though I do think they are needed with sme regularity.

I tend to find vegetables a lot more appetizing if done differently than so much of normal cooking. I do, actually, really enjoy a good salad with better greens (not iceberg and romaine, and only maybe half lettuc anyhow) - adding bacon and walnuts and sunflower sprouts really helps. You know all that.

Grilled vegetables are an amazing addition (and some fried)- there are a lot of northern-ecosystem appropriate veggies like asparagus, zucchini, and squashes that i will only eat if grilled (especially with some bacon!)

In re fruit- If you avoid the developed apple breeds and stick to northern types IN REASON AND IN SEASON, you should be fine. That's going to mean some few of the less sweet apples and otherwise primarily berries. Cane berries (raspberries, chokecherries, gooseberries, lingonberries, etc) tend to be much lower in fructose - which is the actual issue- than tropical, citrus, stone, and "developed" fruit.

By developed i mean mostly yhe commercial apple and pear varieties that have anywhere from 5 to 15 (!) times the sugar of naturally occuring relatives.

2
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on March 04, 2013
at 02:44 PM

Veggies AND Fruits are overrated. You will do just fine as long as you make sure to include organ meats (especially liver) and seafood weekly.

Don't OD on the fruit--excessive fructose is not a great idea for anyone, long-term.

I eat vegetables as condiments: salsa with my eggs, sauteed spinach, pickles, etc...

Read this:

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2009/11/8/do-you-believe-in-magic.html

And this:

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2009/11/10/plants-and-plant-compounds-are-not-essential-or-magic.html

And finally:

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/2/28/william-munny-eats-his-vegetables.html

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:08 PM

Why is fructose bad long term? That sounds unlikely. We need some sort of sugar for energy. Otherwise, we create them from other things, such as protein, but that requires the release of stress hormones, such as cortisol. So it's good to have always sugar, and fructose is better than glucose.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:07 PM

Why is fructose bad long term? That sounds unlikely. We need some sort of energy. Otherwise, we create them from other things, such as protein, but that requires the release of stress hormones, such as cortisol. So it's good to have always sugar, and fructose is better than glucose.

2
2564c814ad9931c834ae092e1ef069fb

on March 04, 2013
at 01:27 PM

You're right that as far as transitioning from vegan to paleo, eating meat and fruit is an improvement over eating fruit and fruit and more fruit. I say that's it's okay to do it for now while you get used to paleo, but long term I think it would be a good idea to get some greens in. Also remember that one of the princples of paleo is to eat saturated fat and cholesterol.. It's very satiating and coming from vegan you probably need it.

1
A048b66e08306d405986b6c04bf5e8e4

on March 05, 2013
at 01:20 AM

If you don't want to eat vegetables, compensate for that with offal and organ meats, which are very high in vitamins, even vitamins A, C, and folate. Or, you can make FRESH mixed fruit and vegetable juices/green smoothies. You can't taste the vegetables once they're mixed with the fruits (but if you're worried about carbs, don't have too many and limit portion sizes, but I've often found it's a way to get some vegetables in me when i don't feel like vegetables.) Bottom line: Eat liver, kidneys, and brains, drink green juice, and praise Odin ;)

1
4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 08:53 PM

That's fine. I don't eat them either. There is no mineral or vitamin that you can get from vegetables and not get from dairy, fruits, meats, eggs, chocolate.

The only one that might be difficult is vitamin K, because although kiwis and liver have it, it's hard to consume these things every day. It's not healthy to consume liver every day. So if one wants to ensure good vitamin K status, one could supplement 500 micrograms per day, and forget about it. Although I personally seem to do fine without supplementing.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:24 PM

You're misinformed.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 05, 2013
at 03:19 AM

I recently had a wound and it healed quickly. I have beef liver once a week which has some vitamin K.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:29 PM

Cocoa powder, which is the way I eat chocolate, is 0,44% PUFA. The amount of PUFA on eggs depend on what they are feed. They typically have 0.7 grams, which is not ideal, but whatever damage they do is compensated by their content of nutrients, including selenium and choline. Ray Peat by the way eats 2 eggs per day even in the U.S., because that's the best option available considering everything.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on March 05, 2013
at 04:07 AM

Aged cheese has vitamin K as well.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:11 PM

chocolate? Isn't that a little high in omega 6 for you Peatarians? I don't think Dr. Peat would approve. Neither does he actually approve of eggs. But they taste good so why not, right?

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:34 PM

Cocoa powder, which is the way I eat chocolate, is 0,44% PUFA (all omega-6). The amount of PUFA in eggs depend on what they are fed. They typically have 0.7 grams, which is not ideal, but whatever damage they do is compensated by their content of nutrients, including selenium and choline. Ray Peat by the way eats 2 eggs per day even in the U.S., because that's the best option, considering everything.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:32 PM

Cocoa powder, which is the way I eat chocolate, is 0,44% PUFA (all omega-6). The amount of PUFA in eggs depend on what they are feed. They typically have 0.7 grams, which is not ideal, but whatever damage they do is compensated by their content of nutrients, including selenium and choline. Ray Peat by the way eats 2 eggs per day even in the U.S., because that's the best option, considering everything.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on March 04, 2013
at 10:47 PM

Oh, yes cocoa powder. Got. As for the eggs, I have an email with Ray Peat from 2 years ago where he says that eggs should be restricted because of their insulinogenic amino acids and omega 6.

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 10:48 PM

That contradicts what I said only under certain definitions of "restricted".

4bd4e2fe6a095663f80c69656936e487

(744)

on March 04, 2013
at 09:36 PM

Cocoa powder, which is the way I eat chocolate, is 0,44% PUFA (all omega-6). The amount of PUFA in eggs depends on what they are fed. They typically have 0.7 grams, which is not ideal, but whatever damage they do is compensated by their content of nutrients, including selenium and choline. Ray Peat by the way eats 2 eggs per day even in the U.S., because that's the best option, considering everything.

6ddb22a034e1a4e3a96d9f1907bb37e2

(302)

on March 05, 2013
at 02:03 AM

"Although I personally seem to do fine without supplementing." unless you have withstood a bleed, such as some sort of trauma, I wouldn't go around saying that. Vitamin K's major purpose in the body is blood clotting, if bleeding does arise you better hope you have enough. I have known those who have hemorrhaged at least in part to vitamin K deficiency. its a recommendation (you can opt out) to all newly born babies, this is suggestive of its importance in an emergency situation and in overall healing & recovery (i.e bruises).

1
De1095b2ba29c1035f00428cbfe3cc7c

on March 04, 2013
at 01:19 PM

Supposedly you can live off meat just fine, i know days i skip veggies & eat lots of meat i feel fine, sometimes even better, as on those days ill usually have a lot of fatty meat so the next day got loads of energy & feel good.

One thing ill give veggies is they are more refreshing to eat & feel much lighter than meat alone, intuitively they look like vibrantly healthy things to eat in my eyes, plus the fibre helps keep things moving. All the studies about veggies being good for you say they are 'likely to be good for you'. I wouldn't say they are a daily necessity for health, as in a hunter/gatherer diet they wouldn't necessarily be available daily.

Id rather hedge my bets & have some veggies along with my meat, i honestly dont think its much more than hedging ones bets though ;)

0
F54a16e4caf4dc8da9ef1369f46a95cd

(591)

on March 05, 2013
at 04:22 AM

Steamed/roasted veggies blended with butter = delicious. Sure you can get along with little to no veggies, but that could get pretty boring. Try it and see how you feel.

0
F54a16e4caf4dc8da9ef1369f46a95cd

(591)

on March 05, 2013
at 04:21 AM

Steamed/roasted veggies blended with butter = delicious. Sure you can get along with little to no veggies, but that could get pretty boring. Try it and see how you feel.

0
89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

on March 04, 2013
at 11:14 PM

Its all about balance.. no you dont have to eat like a rabbit..but of course its good to have some veggies. Your all vegggd out by now but i would still try to find some faves and add them into my diet..(both cooked and raw ) Every food group has its purpose .. id sooner introduce sum veggies over just fruit alone. Just cook em with your meats.. a goulash with added cabbage might work nicely

heres a perspective on fructose and such

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/2/5/no-such-thing-as-a-macronutrient-part-ii-carbohydrates-revis.html

0
089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on March 04, 2013
at 08:42 PM

i eat way more fruit than i do veggies. the only veggie i eat is mushrooms and that's maybe 1/3 cup a few times a week. i'm just not a fan of the others and i don't need the fiber anyway. i like fruits better since they have more water in them and less insoluble fiber.

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