12

votes

Have you had a possible iodine and/or selenium deficiency (or symptoms of it) on an ancestral diet even with cooking goitrogens?

Answered on February 11, 2016
Created April 13, 2012 at 2:07 PM

I have to believe iodine and selenium is fairly important especially if consuming goitrogens and fermented vegetables. My husband and I were consuming about 1-2 pounds of COOKED goitrogenic vegetables per day with no supplemental iodine or selenium. We were using sea salt which doesn't have much iodine. We started to develop symptoms like fatigue, feeling cold, cold hands etc. These symptoms happened in both low carb and higher carb contexts, although higher carbohydrate may mask thyroid symptoms - this was mentioned multiple times at Paleo FX in Austin.

Within days of slow adding kelp supplementation (building from 150 mcg to currently 975 mcg over a 6 weeks) and 150-200 mcg of selenium daily we notice a big difference in energy and not feeling cold. We have also limited our goitrogens by eliminating fermented vegetables since we do fine with raw dairy for probiotics.

We thought cooking and eating lots of saturated fat would take care of the goitrogens, but apparently that wasn't enough for us. So I compiled this list to help those trying to limit goitrogens or have had a similar experience.

Non-Goitrogenic Produce

Avocado - improves thyroid function

Banana, Plaintain

Berries (except strawberries), Cherries, Citrus (lemon, lime, grapefruit, orange, etc.), Melons

Apricots, Dragonfruit, Starfruit, Grapes, Guava, Kiwi, Lychee, Mango, Apple, Pineapple, Pomegranate

Nightshades - Peppers (sweet/bell and hot), Eggplant, Tomatoes, Potatoes

Squashes - Cabeza, Zuccinni, Yellow, Butternut, Pumpkin, Bittermelon (Corolla) technically fruit

Peas, Green Beans, Carrots

Okra

Asparagas, Artichoke

Lettuce, Celery, Cucumber

Herbs - Oregano, Basil, Thyme, Parsley, Cilantro, Parsley

Mushrooms

Onions, Leeks, garlic, shallots, chives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goitrogen Goitrogens are substances that suppress the thyroid gland by interfering with iodine uptake, which can, as a result, cause an enlargement of the thyroid, i.e., a goitre.

Fermented Vegetables in brine (salt water) NOT vinegar have high Goitrogens since the bacteria convert more to that form as in Sauerkraut, Kimchi, Pickle, etc. Certain raw foods (cooking inactivates some of the goitrogens, except in the cases of soy and millet) have been identified as goitrogenic. These goitrogenic foods include:

Cassava (Tapioca), Sweet Potatoes, Rutabagas, Radishes (inc. Daikon), Turnips

Soybeans (and soybean products such as tofu, soybean oil, soy flour, soy lecithin) (High)

Pine nuts, Peanuts, Flaxseeds, Lima Beans

Millet (High)

Strawberries, Pears, Peaches (low)

Bamboo shoots

Spinach

Vegetables in the genus Brassica (cruciferous)

Bok choy, Choy sum, Mizuna Tatsoi,

Broccoli, Broccolini, Broccoflower, Kai-lan (Chinese broccoli), Rapini, Cauliflower

Brussels sprouts, Cabbage, Chinese cabbage

Canola (Rapeseed), Yu Choy,

Collard greens, Mustard Greens, Kale

Horseradish

Kohlrabi

Mustard (low)

Despite being generally a stimulant, caffeine (examples: coffee, tea, cola, chocolate) acts on thyroid function as a suppressant. Indeed some studies on rats suggest that excess caffeine in conjunction with a lack of iodine may promote the formation of thyroid cancers.

Masterjohn recommends no more then 5 servings of goitrogens/week and Kresser no more then 3-6 servings/week for anyone with thyroid issues.

Paul Jaminet, Chris Masterjohn, and Chris Kresser have written well on this.

http://www.westonaprice.org/basics/bearers-of-the-cross

Fermentation makes soy goitrogens worse! http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/10/fermentation-does-not-neutrailize.html

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ppccontent/PPCGoitrogen.pdf

014e7a87621b34bead8645fde586f6cd

(100)

on August 03, 2012
at 01:05 PM

May I ask what made the treatment awful? I may have to face that soon...thanks.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on May 22, 2012
at 02:31 AM

I wouldn't necessarily eliminate - perhaps just limit.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on May 22, 2012
at 02:30 AM

banana, plantains, sweeter squashes (pumpkin, butternut), rice and potatoes but NOT yams (sweet potatoes)!

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on April 15, 2012
at 03:15 PM

You may not want to eliminate but just limit.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on April 14, 2012
at 02:09 AM

The question is what type of doctor do you go to for this? Most endocrinologists do not take selenium into account and tend to prescribe synthroid which is only t4.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 13, 2012
at 11:43 PM

& if your concerned about possible estrogenic foods as well, it gets even more complicated

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 13, 2012
at 11:42 PM

& if your concerned about possible estrogenic foods, it gets even more complicated....

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:49 PM

Thanks. I've just started adding starches back into my diet 3 days ago and by eating sweet potatoes. I've always had a low thyroid, so I guess the sweet potatoes have to go...

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:47 PM

Yes, and as far as I know Brazil nuts are the highest source of selenium. A single nut contains more than the daily recommended value. Asparagus is also high in selenium but I've also seen asparagus listed as a possible goitrogen too.

Fab409ac4a30957e3ed508514f7bff02

(295)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:32 PM

@D.K., isn't that way they say to supplement with selenium? http://chriskresser.com/selenium-the-missing-link-for-treating-hypothyroidism

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:15 PM

banana, plantains, sweeter squashes (pumkin, butternut), rice and potatoes but NOT yams (sweet potatoes)!

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:54 PM

DO NOT supplement with iodine unless you're cleared by your doctor for hashimotos. Iodine can make hypothyroidism worse if you have hashimotos...and most people with hypothyroidism have hashimotos and don't even know it.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on April 13, 2012
at 02:44 PM

I made a bunch of sauerkraut. Its interesting that the FODMAPs are non goitergenic. I think its best just to supplement with iodine and selenium so that you can eat a lot of those delicious foods.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:40 PM

Good information! I know a few people with perpetually cold extremities, perhaps I will suggest they pay more attention to thyroid health.

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9 Answers

3
A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on April 13, 2012
at 03:42 PM

For me (a person with lifelong thyroid disease) the challenge in discussing things like iodine, selenium, and goitrogens is this: what may be most appropriate for a given individual with thyroid trouble depends very much on the nature of that trouble.

You mentioned Chris Kresser's discussions, and I think that's a great place to start. He reveals the complexity of the issue, exploring things like how iodine may cause thyroid trouble in some people, while it may resolve trouble in others, and he places iodine in its proper context in terms of its relationship with selenium.

Also, fear of goitrogenic vegetables may be overblown--in some people. On the other hand, the problem with goitrogens may indeed be very real for others. It would be a shame for a given individual to dismiss many wonderful, nutritious vegetables if goitrogens aren't problematic for their particular case.

In my case, my thyroid is shot (thanks to overly aggressive antithyroid treatment in my youth), I'm on a full replacement dose of natural thyroid hormones, and goitrogens don't seem to be problematic for me. Iodine supplementation causes me trouble though, because despite its inability to produce adequate thyroid hormones, my thyroid still seems quite capable of responding to immune attack/inflammation. Someone with no thyroid gland (e.g., removed for cancer) may have a very different experience with these things.

The intention of my response is not to disagree with or argue against your post, but just to complicate the issue (as if it wasn't complicated enough already!). Thyroid issues are generally under-appreciated, and paleo has implications, pro and con, so I always appreciate this topic when it arises.

2
742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on April 13, 2012
at 09:45 PM

I was eating pounds of sweet potatoes, kale, broccoli and other anti-thyroid foods up until last week. Once I stopped I was finally able to sleep again, and the cold shivers I use to get at night, completely disappeared. I am still eating sweet potatoes, but my symptoms have vastly improved. Maybe they will improve more if I eliminate them, but I love them too damm much.

E76eea002de00e32d6eeb678b37012b0

on February 02, 2015
at 01:10 AM

I did the same thing all autumn and winter, with broccoli, brussels sprouts, cole slaw, and lots of sweet potatoes, my all time snack favorite.  I hate apples, so have been eating mostly pears and some early season strawberries from nearby Mexico, never suspecting....   Had some shivering, which I attributed to getting older and a cold house and bad moments just after a hot flash.  Just got diagnosed as subclinically hypothyroid, with a TSH about 8, although the doc guessed it from my appearance so maybe in some ways it is not so subclinical.  Two weeks off this food (and just 2 days of t4, which hardly counts) and I can see more definition in my neck, there's less joint pain and the shivers are almost gone.  Am hoping the TSH will go down appreciably, although I'm already on t4.       

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on April 15, 2012
at 03:15 PM

You may not want to eliminate but just limit.

2
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on April 13, 2012
at 05:13 PM

I developed dry skin a few years after moving from a wet climate to a dry one, and I blamed my dry skin on the climate. After I started taking iodine it completely resolved.

1
01adafcb4dd4147c6af543f61eee60a8

on May 10, 2012
at 02:16 PM

So broccoli isnt a super food now? jeez I give up

1
531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:02 PM

I'd like to add to you question if I may: What would be considered both a "safe starch" & non-giotrogenic food?

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:49 PM

Thanks. I've just started adding starches back into my diet 3 days ago and by eating sweet potatoes. I've always had a low thyroid, so I guess the sweet potatoes have to go...

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:15 PM

banana, plantains, sweeter squashes (pumkin, butternut), rice and potatoes but NOT yams (sweet potatoes)!

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on May 22, 2012
at 02:30 AM

banana, plantains, sweeter squashes (pumpkin, butternut), rice and potatoes but NOT yams (sweet potatoes)!

0
4174e2855ba08e93ff08392c2f977b81

on February 11, 2016
at 04:09 PM

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0
75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac

(2506)

on August 03, 2012
at 12:08 PM

Yes, I believe my daily consumption of homemade sauerkraut for 9 months caused my TSH to jump to 5.86 ... despite taking 150 mcg of iodine daily during this time. And so I stopped eating sauerkraut, continue on iodine, and see what the results are when I am tested again (on 1 October).

It seems opinions on how much iodine one should consume vary tremendously. I might consider bumping my dosage up to 400 mcg, but no more. And I should probably start taking selenium.

Despite all this I don't have any noticeable hypothyroid issues. With an elevated TSH and a normal T4 I think my condition can be described as "subclinical hypothyroid".

Perhaps unrelated, I just finished treatment for eradicating H. pylori (... the treatment is absolutely awful). I've read that there might be some connection between H. pylori and thyroid issues.

_Lazza

014e7a87621b34bead8645fde586f6cd

(100)

on August 03, 2012
at 01:05 PM

May I ask what made the treatment awful? I may have to face that soon...thanks.

0
4cfc5909816226fcfcd10ec34c9d6adc

on August 03, 2012
at 10:33 AM

Thyroid gland signs and symptoms in women of all ages are usually more widespread compared to they happen to be in males. Thousands of ladies over the globe are afflicted by some sort or other of thyroid problems and a lot of these individuals are un-aware that the signs and symptoms in men tend to be thyroid linked. It is often documented that One out of 6 persons are afflicted by some sort or other of thyroid gland disorder. Why don't we examine exactly what the thyroid actually does as well as which type of signs prove if it's not necessarily working properly.

Although there are lots of health problems linked to the thyroid gland gland, the pair of most popular are usually Hyperthyroidism along with An under active thyroid gland.

Hypothyroidism is additionally referred to as the underactive thyroid as well as takes place when there's an underproduction of T3 as well as T3 thyroid body's hormones. Frequently it's on account of the thyroid gland getting extracted so that you can take care of significant hyperthyroidism as well as many forms of cancer. Frequent thyroid gland signs in women of all ages tend to be: Lower energy, Unusual Fat gain, Baldness, Absence of Interest In Sex, Dried-out skin, Sleeplessness, Your inability to tolerate Cold weather.

A typical strategy to Thyroid gland problems can be the implementation of 'beta' Blockers. They can cut down anxiousness, tremor, frustration and minimize quick cardiovascular rate. The substance Methimazole can be utilized to stop thyroid gland bodily hormone functionality. To get more significant situations, Radioactive iodine treatments are being used.

0
50c140ccc87f5ba74cf0c0040fb7c75f

on May 10, 2012
at 12:32 PM

I wonder how the writer of this blog is after eliminating cruciferous veggies from their diets? I too have been cooking them and had them included in my meal, but after reading all this, I have put a stop to my fav veggies! Substituting is tough because I really enjoyed cruciferous veggies!

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on May 22, 2012
at 02:31 AM

I wouldn't necessarily eliminate - perhaps just limit.

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