4

votes

How do you deal with nasty vegans?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 13, 2011 at 4:42 PM

I have nothing against vegans. I mean, eat the f* what you want to. I don't care, unless you're a friend or family member, but even then I'm not in their face about it. I am not an evangelist, preferring to lead by example. I figure when I get thinner and healthier then that will speak for itself.

But why in the world do I seem to attract all of the vegan weirdos? Does this happen to you, and how do you deal with it? I write two blogs The Nourishing Cook and Eat Fat Lose Fat and the first one gets more traffic. It seems the vegans know about it now and have come out in force to comment on multiple posts, even old ones. These are not even strictly paleo blogs (although I am moving EFLF in that direction, since I am eating paleo).

I know many of you are also bloggers and I would love to hear how to deal with vegan flamers. Not looking to bash vegans please, just wanting actual advice on how to handle vegan comments professionally and tactfully. Upvotes will be given for actual examples and links.

I've had similar experiences in person with people (is it because I live in Portland, Oregon, where many freaks live?) so in person examples would be helpful too!

Here's my latest example of a vegan comment:
"Actually there are many links between animal consumption and increased rates of colon cancer, diabetes, and heart disease just to name a few. Tg as t veg myth book is a crock of sh!t !"

This ironically was on a post about making sauerkraut juice. The recipe in the Nourishing Traditions cookbook (which is what I blog about) calls for liquid whey. They took offense to that, since whey is an animal product. Funny, because this recipe can be made without whey and just salt. I don't think they're interested in the posts, just the flaming.

3a833804187fe8926214e6c0bd8a0766

(1023)

on April 22, 2011
at 04:12 AM

I usually respond to the inevitable Colin Campbell crap with this link to Free The Animal that contains links to 43 articles that debunk The China Study. Obvious favorites: Masterjohn, Minger and Eades, who uses Campbell's own admission of confirmation bias: http://freetheanimal.com/2010/07/the-china-study-smackdown-roundup.html

3a833804187fe8926214e6c0bd8a0766

(1023)

on April 22, 2011
at 04:11 AM

I usually respond to the inevitable Colin Campbell crap with this like to Free The Animal that contains links to 43 articles that debunk The China Study. Obvious favorites: Masterjohn, Minger and Eades, who uses Campbell's own admission of confirmation bias: http://freetheanimal.com/2010/07/the-china-study-smackdown-roundup.html

C61399790c6531a0af344ab0c40048f1

on April 21, 2011
at 09:07 PM

Say you are speciesist too and claim that humans are at the top of the food chain.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 18, 2011
at 12:37 AM

What if they embrace that appellation?

1d952d225819b0229e93160a90bf9bf8

(1600)

on April 18, 2011
at 12:24 AM

I am offering them advice on how to be more consistent,by pointing out the fact that it's nearly impossible to be free of animal products in modern society.Personally,I prefer live and let live,but they can't seem to abide by that.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on April 17, 2011
at 02:30 PM

Then you remark that they are speciesist.. duh.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 17, 2011
at 01:06 PM

The problem is, they post crap like Colin Campbell, and then it becomes a game of point-counterpoint where you have to educate them why Campbell is painfully wrong, why lipid hypothesis is wrong etcetc

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 17, 2011
at 03:36 AM

What if they have a ranking of who's more important that who? Then what's your argument?

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 17, 2011
at 03:30 AM

Downvoted for posting the same lame bit every vegan in the world hears every day. Look, they try. You can't win 'em all. They do the best they can. Faulting their effort for only going part of the way and not the whole is stupid. It would be better if you maybe gave them some serious advise for how to be more consistent. They might even appreciate it.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on April 14, 2011
at 03:07 PM

If it gets to be impossible to deal with, you could do what Kurt Harris did and require people to get your permission before they post anything.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on April 14, 2011
at 02:44 PM

Your flamers aren't going to be swayed by pesky things like logic and facts. I'd delete or ignore their comments, for the most part.

3eb3f79868b24b3df4450ea2d4f9a5d5

(2387)

on April 14, 2011
at 08:53 AM

Dear oak0y - all knowledge is free. Thanks to the internet. It is not the knowledge you pay for, it is the editing and processing - and that's what was available in the free preview as well. Had you ever filed a complained I would have reimbursed your "some buck" (2.49€). You did not. Thus, I can not help you. I am not sorry. As for the rest of your comment: I don't care a single bit about your views on the world or my blog. But I encourage you to create your own blog and find happy readers who love what you are doing. Cheers.

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 14, 2011
at 04:53 AM

tartare... thanks your comment about corn even being bad for your car made me laugh!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on April 14, 2011
at 01:52 AM

i send them for a calcium index score and a cardiac crp.......then they come back scared.

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 13, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Dave... thanks I like that idea!! lol

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 13, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Ashley... thanks so much! I'm a recent Paleo convert from WAPF. Just heard about it for the first time at the WAPF conference in November. I knew it would catch me when I heard it but it took me some time to come to terms with it and implement it in my life.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on April 13, 2011
at 07:24 PM

Refer them to Richard at Free The Animal and let him deal them!

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on April 13, 2011
at 07:07 PM

just wanted to say, I read your blog and I like it. I started with WAPF too and have migrated over to the Paleo side. Let the haters hate, you're doing good work getting this info out through the intertubez. :-)

Medium avatar

(5136)

on April 13, 2011
at 06:42 PM

fuel, which, i just learned really recently, actually lowers your gas mileage and leaves a residue in your motor. Someone told my husband recently to go to this gas staion where they sell 100% gasoline, and so I looked into it... turns out corn is even bad for your CAR! lol.

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 13, 2011
at 06:40 PM

tartare... thanks for outlining these points. If I hear someone say ONE MORE TIME that there's not enough land to grow meat for everyone I'm going to scream. These are the same people that think it's great to use our farmland to grow 'fuel' instead of at least feeding us with it.

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 13, 2011
at 06:38 PM

great analogy thanks wordvixen!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2011
at 06:33 PM

Dear Felix. My impression of your website. Is that you put your self quiet in focus and that you could more balance report on health and diet. I dont wanna discus or argue with you on health in such a relation. I once got a paid primer from you on eggs for some buck. And it was knowledge which actually is for free. I feel very tricked by your site. I dont like your style of promoting yourself with the health. If someone enters the public with his person and his face. He is a person of publicity so im my opinion you should be more open for other opinon. I avoid your homepage.

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 13, 2011
at 06:01 PM

preferably in a broth, right?? lol

Medium avatar

(5136)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:50 PM

you know i just read the topsoil figure yesterday and can't remember where...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:29 PM

These are good points. I especially like the one about the animals being killed by cultivation. Any links to articles/books on this?

E2b9c679315c7c9c7265783dde89f350

(1303)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:15 PM

I used to belong to a few writing groups where the problem of flames and trolls would come up. Most of us agreed on something like "This is my house. I'm having an open party. If you start breaking my vases, I'm kicking you out."

Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

19 Answers

9
3eb3f79868b24b3df4450ea2d4f9a5d5

(2387)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:13 PM

On my blog (www.urgeschmack.de) I use three methods

1) delete if insulting

2) ignore if insignificant

3) ask about credible sources if they make any claims about health issues.

The trolls never come back.

Those who are seriously interested usually reply and so so far I got along very well with all of them. That might be because they keep their eyes open and immediately see that we're actually on the same side when it comes to health or animal welfar - we're just using different approaches.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2011
at 06:33 PM

Dear Felix. My impression of your website. Is that you put your self quiet in focus and that you could more balance report on health and diet. I dont wanna discus or argue with you on health in such a relation. I once got a paid primer from you on eggs for some buck. And it was knowledge which actually is for free. I feel very tricked by your site. I dont like your style of promoting yourself with the health. If someone enters the public with his person and his face. He is a person of publicity so im my opinion you should be more open for other opinon. I avoid your homepage.

3eb3f79868b24b3df4450ea2d4f9a5d5

(2387)

on April 14, 2011
at 08:53 AM

Dear oak0y - all knowledge is free. Thanks to the internet. It is not the knowledge you pay for, it is the editing and processing - and that's what was available in the free preview as well. Had you ever filed a complained I would have reimbursed your "some buck" (2.49€). You did not. Thus, I can not help you. I am not sorry. As for the rest of your comment: I don't care a single bit about your views on the world or my blog. But I encourage you to create your own blog and find happy readers who love what you are doing. Cheers.

8
Medium avatar

(5136)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:21 PM

you could do a post on the destructive environmental effects of monoculture grain farming (including organic monoculture grain farming) and how its causing a "dead zone" in the Gulf of Mexico and how 60% of America's topsoil has been depleted since 1960 due to the increase in this kind of farming and how there is no such thing as a vegan because plowing kills numerous animals that live in the soil, not to mention the ones that used to live in the dead zone in the gulf. And while I'm not sure quite how many flies a cow's tail swats in 2 seasons and I'm not sure how many animals die in hay production, I'm pretty sure one big animal dying (instead of many tiny ones) feeds many people for a long time and that animals pooping on the land is good for us all.

Though, I suppose that might just make them even more vehement.

edit: of course, the above ONLY applies if you are eating grass fed and grass finished beef!

Medium avatar

(5136)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:50 PM

you know i just read the topsoil figure yesterday and can't remember where...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:29 PM

These are good points. I especially like the one about the animals being killed by cultivation. Any links to articles/books on this?

Medium avatar

(5136)

on April 13, 2011
at 06:42 PM

fuel, which, i just learned really recently, actually lowers your gas mileage and leaves a residue in your motor. Someone told my husband recently to go to this gas staion where they sell 100% gasoline, and so I looked into it... turns out corn is even bad for your CAR! lol.

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 14, 2011
at 04:53 AM

tartare... thanks your comment about corn even being bad for your car made me laugh!

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 13, 2011
at 06:40 PM

tartare... thanks for outlining these points. If I hear someone say ONE MORE TIME that there's not enough land to grow meat for everyone I'm going to scream. These are the same people that think it's great to use our farmland to grow 'fuel' instead of at least feeding us with it.

5
50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:35 PM

Ah, C'mon.. Throw em' a bone

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 13, 2011
at 06:01 PM

preferably in a broth, right?? lol

4
1d952d225819b0229e93160a90bf9bf8

on April 14, 2011
at 03:03 PM

Inform them that computers are not vegan. From vegsource.com: "In today's society it is impossible to be totally "free" from animal products. Steel, vinyl, plastics, and rubber all contain animal derivatives. Film, videotapes, musical instruments, and computers all contain some sort of animal product also."

1d952d225819b0229e93160a90bf9bf8

(1600)

on April 18, 2011
at 12:24 AM

I am offering them advice on how to be more consistent,by pointing out the fact that it's nearly impossible to be free of animal products in modern society.Personally,I prefer live and let live,but they can't seem to abide by that.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 17, 2011
at 03:30 AM

Downvoted for posting the same lame bit every vegan in the world hears every day. Look, they try. You can't win 'em all. They do the best they can. Faulting their effort for only going part of the way and not the whole is stupid. It would be better if you maybe gave them some serious advise for how to be more consistent. They might even appreciate it.

4
B3e7d1ab5aeb329fe24cca1de1a0b09c

(5242)

on April 14, 2011
at 03:25 AM

I, like you, don't mind what people eat, it's their body, their choice. However if I do happen to have a vegan or vegetarian for that matter try and criticise my animal centric diet for moral reasons I generally roll out the 'Least harm principle'.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/972951/posts

V: "How can you have animals killed for your food. Humans don't need animal in their diet. You're a monster!"

Me: "Well, would you say a field mouse life is worth the same as, say a cows life?"

V: "Yes, of course"

Me: "Well how about a bug, say a cricket or grasshopper, are they worth the same as a field mouse?"

V: "Ahhh...... well, yes."

Me: "So then you'd agree that the bugs life is worth the same as the cows life?"

V: "......... yes."

Me: "Well then I'd suggest you stop eating cereal grains and take up pastured ruminants. Compare all the bugs, mice, birds and other critters which are inadvertently killed for your grain production to the relative few ruminants that I consume, and you my friend, are a monster".

V:.......................................... :0

Or something along those lines...
(Of course this wouldn't work with a raw vegan who doesn't consume grains, but I'm yet to come across one of those who wants to tell me how to eat).

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 18, 2011
at 12:37 AM

What if they embrace that appellation?

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 17, 2011
at 03:36 AM

What if they have a ranking of who's more important that who? Then what's your argument?

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on April 17, 2011
at 02:30 PM

Then you remark that they are speciesist.. duh.

C61399790c6531a0af344ab0c40048f1

on April 21, 2011
at 09:07 PM

Say you are speciesist too and claim that humans are at the top of the food chain.

4
Fe535c4994ac6176f76e1ff6d29eb08a

on April 13, 2011
at 07:25 PM

Make them back up everything they say. Do it in a nice manner, almost overly nice, kill em with kindness. Say something along the lines of "I would like this to be a place of open discussion and learning for all, and while I respect your opinion, I would love to see some science that backs it up." Give em homework and I doubt you will see most of them return.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 17, 2011
at 01:06 PM

The problem is, they post crap like Colin Campbell, and then it becomes a game of point-counterpoint where you have to educate them why Campbell is painfully wrong, why lipid hypothesis is wrong etcetc

3a833804187fe8926214e6c0bd8a0766

(1023)

on April 22, 2011
at 04:11 AM

I usually respond to the inevitable Colin Campbell crap with this like to Free The Animal that contains links to 43 articles that debunk The China Study. Obvious favorites: Masterjohn, Minger and Eades, who uses Campbell's own admission of confirmation bias: http://freetheanimal.com/2010/07/the-china-study-smackdown-roundup.html

3a833804187fe8926214e6c0bd8a0766

(1023)

on April 22, 2011
at 04:12 AM

I usually respond to the inevitable Colin Campbell crap with this link to Free The Animal that contains links to 43 articles that debunk The China Study. Obvious favorites: Masterjohn, Minger and Eades, who uses Campbell's own admission of confirmation bias: http://freetheanimal.com/2010/07/the-china-study-smackdown-roundup.html

4
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:26 PM

Why can't we just declare war on vegans and kick their scrawny butts once and for all?!

But seriously, it's the Internet, purportedly the most democratic medium in history, so we have to put up with people we disagree with. However, if they become so nasty that dialog becomes impossible, first ignore them then block them.

3
Bc6aa0b0bcf04c9d937c4393262db8e5

on April 17, 2011
at 01:32 PM

I think it's kind of funny, the whole vegan thing. As my handle suggests I was once a vegan, but at the time I knew F*ck All about nutrition, and most vegans are definetly ignorant in their knowledge of nutrition. It's a ethical decision not a nutrotional one. Alot of people are baffled by my change from vegan to paleo, I just explain that once I began looking into the nutrition I relaized how much the vegan/vegetarian thing was bass ackwards. I still think that if you are concerned with ethics vegan is the best thing in the world, I just decided I would rather eat animals than slowly kill myself. Low fat + high carb = HELL.

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of nutrition can slam any PETA humping vegan.

3
B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on April 17, 2011
at 03:08 AM

???A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing their own opinions.??? Proverbs 18:2

If they're 'nasty' and not open do discussion but would rather bite my head off, I'd rather not 'deal with them'. I'll be respectful and go on my merry way. I don't find the need to argue with close-minded people. No one gets anywhere. I'll save my paleo rational for people that aren't so surly (which I think is what the OP is alluding to when she says 'nasty', 'vegan flamers', etc).

3
91c2e2a35e578e2e79ce7d631b753879

on April 13, 2011
at 05:07 PM

I have one regular reader who is a vegetarian, but she's very respectful of me and my diet, as I am of hers. Other than that, none of the veg*an nutjobs have found me yet and if (more likely when) they do, I'll simply moderate my comments. It's my blog, after all! Yes, it would be a huge pain in the tookus, but it will allow me to allow only comments that actually contribute to the conversation - which by no means requires that you agree with me.

E2b9c679315c7c9c7265783dde89f350

(1303)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:15 PM

I used to belong to a few writing groups where the problem of flames and trolls would come up. Most of us agreed on something like "This is my house. I'm having an open party. If you start breaking my vases, I'm kicking you out."

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 13, 2011
at 06:38 PM

great analogy thanks wordvixen!

2
Acfd35c9e350bb4c0c17810af4decd95

on April 14, 2011
at 02:37 PM

A couple of political blogs I read have a good solution to the problem of know-it-all jerks, in the case of these blogs, liberals: save the best/funniest posts and put them on your blog for all to see just what pinheads they are. Don't comment on them yourself, just post them. Your readers will probably get a kick out of the more dimwitted ones.

2
24fcc21452ebe39c032be6801d6bbadd

(9812)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:02 PM

Oh man, I had the honor of getting my first Twitter troll a couple weeks ago! She was pretty easy to deal with- all the links she sent me were to vegan websites, not very impressive... I did send the girl one post from Mark's Daily Apple, but I'd try to stick with peer-reviewed journal articles. If they're just there for the flaming, maybe just ignore the trolls and they'll get bored and go away.

Anyhoo, here's a good one about heart disease and saturated fat- http://www.ajcn.org/content/91/3/535.abstract

2
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on April 13, 2011
at 04:59 PM

Just turn off comments and let them stew in their own stick figures if they get too obnoxious.

1
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on April 21, 2011
at 07:02 PM

Look I'm all about civil discourse. Really, I am. It is always first choice. But I will NOT back down to anyone trying to push a vegan agenda in the name of their own personal beliefs about what I should and shouldn't eat and why. I will not eat a human person, somebody else's pet (probably wouldn't eat my own pet either), or an endangered species that is illegal to kill (unless of course it means my survival. at that point, it's survival of the fittest baby!). Those are pretty much the only "don't eat" rules I will accept.

But I will always give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they give me a pointed reason not to, even someone who's opinion fiercely opposes mine. Many vegans/vegetarians are nice people that are just misinformed, seriously. There is no reason to 'hate on' vegans any more than there is reason for them to hate on us. If someone wants to say something in disagreement with eating animals and animal derivatives, I am fine with that, so long as their comments are made with good rationale. But the surest way to let anyone control you is to allow their willingness to be unrational and shameless to defeat your desire to remain in balance with the same. Simply put, sometimes you gotta get a lil' indignant to stand up to opposition... the ol "Nice guys finish last" dealio. I am not a mean person, but I am a fighter. Whimps get annihilated.

1
9fb6900af6e722fc80ab46782fa94e2c

on April 14, 2011
at 04:32 AM

One of the blogs I read--not nutrition but more along the lines of peak oil and "the long emergency"--gets a fair share of hate mail. He simply keeps a link to "_'s Hate Mail" where he posts it without comment. I don't know if he has received less hate mail since keeping that archive, but it seems like it might be worth a try.

If it's opinion or random ad hominem hooey, ignore it, no response. If responding can become "a teaching moment" for all of your readers, respond with the facts, just the facts. And don't lose sight of the fact that you have the gratitude of many readers who do not write.

1
Da8e709acde269e8b8bfbc09d1737841

(1906)

on April 13, 2011
at 05:45 PM

Don't feel compelled to respond to every comment. If you want to moderate out ad hominem attacks, do so, but you can significantly reduce your effort by simply ignoring many responses that aren't worth your time.

0
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on April 22, 2011
at 03:42 AM

Wrestle them. And I always win even though I only weigh 108 lbs!

Seriously though, ignore, ignore, ignore. Unless you can manage a public witty put-down, I always enjoy those.

0
4e813fcf7266312684862b945c1c3281

(462)

on April 13, 2011
at 11:46 PM

Throw them in the fire! More meat for the other meat eaters!

0
Bc6aa0b0bcf04c9d937c4393262db8e5

on April 13, 2011
at 07:18 PM

I like bringing up Omega 3 and omega 6 ratios... I'm also a big fan of avoiding food that has the potential to be dangerous ala gluten.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!