1

votes

Rebuttal to Vegan outrage?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 14, 2013 at 8:53 PM

Does anyone have a good reply to this comment? I'm probably not going to reply to it because I don't think that an intelligent debate is possible based on her other comments. However I would like to know some solid reasons against veganism.

" animal protein.Not only does animal protein have no fiber whats so fucking ever, it makes the body more acidic, resulting in diseases such as cancer and heart disease, it also alters the mix of hormones, and modifies important enzyme activities (which can lead to a number of other life threatening diseases such as increases blood cholesterol). Not only that but the business of raising animals, in order for them to be sold is responsible for about 18 percent of global warming. Do the math. Finally, don't test me on my knowledge, I've been researching. Steak may taste good, but you're probably going to die before me. Sorry not sorry "

62fafa8cb15af7c562fa8c270f7b6174

(619)

on April 18, 2013
at 01:37 AM

What sort of vegan goes around begging for knuckle sandwiches?

Cdd931c4a0fae8944478767671bb7402

(105)

on April 15, 2013
at 01:59 AM

+1 for the referenced TED talk. A real eye opener.

2006ccb2b60f9cc5ba5e8eff8a7abc46

(1533)

on April 15, 2013
at 01:20 AM

its never wise to argue with a hungry teenager

42cd0feeeda5fa2e2fe1c4fd8255073a

(1930)

on April 15, 2013
at 12:16 AM

"..but you're probably going to die before me" *then gets hit by a bus*

46d2d71df39b4a6336df6d8307b25d87

(278)

on April 15, 2013
at 12:09 AM

"Finally, don't test me on my knowledge, I've been researching." *facepalm*

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 14, 2013
at 10:35 PM

http://kristensraw.com/blog/2013/03/17/my-vegan-diet-caused-health-problems-would-primal-paleo-or-real-food-be-better/

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on April 14, 2013
at 10:24 PM

Morons are less than a dime a dozen, in fact, you can't even give them away. Spend your energy improving yourself and your own knowledge. Those who want to learn, will. Those who want a quick tidbit to feel smug will.

  • 76e82f76e7e3ed9747c980b50fc51b25

    asked by

    (229)
  • Views
    2.9K
  • Last Activity
    1431D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

11 Answers

6
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 14, 2013
at 09:27 PM

I like your decision not to try to "win" this conversation. This person appears to have some deeply-held beliefs and her emotions are too engaged for rational analysis of all existing data. I've seen that in some paleos as well and they aren't the ones I try to learn from. Sadly, even if she encounters health issues in the future she's likely to assume she's "doing it wrong" rather than open her paradigm to include animal-based foods.

In general, I think the numbers don't support her position on living longer, or even being healthier, but she probably won't hear or accept any case you try to build to that effect.

I think there are many excellent things about the vegan approach if whole foods are emphasized, but I consider it nutritionally incomplete. It may work well for many in the short term and a few in the long term. The very fact that it requires knowledge and skill to build nutrition that way tells me it's not our natural method even if you ignore history and evolution.

From my personal point of view, I just don't seem to have the ability to combine plant proteins into complete nutrition, but if they do more power to them. I eat and enjoy a nice variety of plant-based foods, but I also need animal-based foods to thrive and I feel no need to convince other people of my need.

6
F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on April 14, 2013
at 09:03 PM

There's a lot of incorrect stuff in here, and stuff that isn't even relevant - i.e. steak may be low in fiber, but if you're eating it with veggies, then there is your fiber. And regardless, we don't need as much fiber as conventional wisdom would have us believe. In fact recent studies point to fiber as a cause of constipation, not a cure for it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/#.UTtnARoSAIU.facebook

As for climate change, have them watch this TED talk. Cattle can reverse climate change. http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html

I'll let someone else tackle some of the other points.

But honestly, this person's tone is so hostile, I wouldn't bother responding.

Cdd931c4a0fae8944478767671bb7402

(105)

on April 15, 2013
at 01:59 AM

+1 for the referenced TED talk. A real eye opener.

3
37cc142fbb183f2758ef723a192e7a9d

(1353)

on April 15, 2013
at 01:32 AM

It's nothing to do with veganism, this person is just not worth your time. I know intelligent vegans who can have a respectful debate. This isn't one of them.

2
Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on April 14, 2013
at 10:07 PM

Ask them what they eat every day on average.

If it resembles a good whole food diet but with the exclusion of meat then you have nothing to argue about. If it is full of soy, smoothies and an excess of bananas then raise your eyebrows, but respectfully.

Read this: http://paindatabase.com/ask-kamal-stabby-vegan-diet
Read this: http://rawfoodsos.com/for-vegans/
Read this: http://paleohacks.com/questions/186770/vegetarians-vegans-where-have-we-gone-wrong/186797#186797

2
3d58b5fb4f9780e2f47d4dcc53338a5a

(2771)

on April 14, 2013
at 09:55 PM

I've learned that you can't argue with people like that, so avoid conflict when possible. Most vegetarians/vegans are that way for their beliefs first, and use certain health studies and other things to justify their point of view. I'm not saying they're right or wrong. We all have our "moral" lines in the sand. I have learned that there is no arguing/refuting a person's belief, including my own. I personally think it's morally wrong to feed myself and family a sub-par diet that could shave years off our lives, and like your friend, I've done the research as well! Just smile and/or ignore.

Although, I have to say that I've been waiting for someone to question my decisions that fly in the face of convential wisdom, to which I'll say "Literlly, I'm betting my life on it."

1
2006ccb2b60f9cc5ba5e8eff8a7abc46

on April 15, 2013
at 01:14 AM

not feeling it necessary to prove anything is an option

feeling calm, relaxed and well nourished is just a product of a healthy diet, plenty of fats and proteins are the best way to accomplish this. every system in your body will thank you and sigh a breath of healing relief when it is fed easily assimilated amino acids and fats that do not contain any indigestible and highly fermentable fibers :P

being able to contribute to the things that are virtuous about an omnivorous diet is another, such as organic, sustainable and environmentally healthy farming and ranching practices. free range grass fed beef, lamb, pigs, chickens, turkeys, elk, deer, bison.... only requires that we keep prairies and pastures intact and bio diverse, for the health of the meat and the land itself.

I wonder how much damage monocropped fruit and bean plantations cause? I can tell you the most devastated land I have ever lived on was in peach country.....not many birds around, lots of pesitcides, same goes for the lentil fields I live among right now, NO biodiversity, devastated prairie land, and crop dusters.

1
Cc3ce03985eac5ebcbb95fc2329f13b0

on April 14, 2013
at 11:57 PM

If I were to bother answering them, I would say that their insistance that they are right is not proof that they are, and like anyone else, I require them to prove their points with links to relevant and reliable sources.

1
1a6ad0d62f779ca50babe92d70ea6a0c

(137)

on April 14, 2013
at 10:53 PM

"animal protein.Not only does animal protein have no fiber whats so fucking ever, it makes the body more acidic"

This comment is completely untrue at least for me anyway. I tested this over a 4 month period twice a day with PH strips. Not once did my PH ever dip into acid mode.

Ironically when my gf and I went vegan for 2 months (hardest thing ever), I was testing my PH on a daily basis and it was continually dipping into acidic levels.

It's not hard to pull it out of acidic, just take a tsp full of baking soda and water sometime during the morning and another time before bed. That's essentially what I had to do while attempting vegan.

I would tend to agree.. animal protein probably doesn't have a lot of fiber if any.. that's why there are fruits and veggies available.

1
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on April 14, 2013
at 10:52 PM

Morons are less than a dime a dozen, in fact, you probably can't even give them away. Spend your energy improving yourself and your own knowledge. Those who want to learn, will. Those who want a quick tidbit to feel smug will.

Have you seen this? If not it will answer your questions and more: http://vimeo.com/32062337

Protein is required for repairs.

Cholesterol is beneficial, and required for hormones.

Any discussion of "acidification" is pure buffalo droppings from people who have no idea of what they're talking about.

I'll eat steak and outlive all the vegans for the win.

0
90bcfafd2ef73fea5398c483c593349e

on April 15, 2013
at 01:07 AM

Attempting to use logic with an entrenched vegan is similar to attempting to use logic to convert a Christian to atheism. It will never work. I know this because I was a vegan and had to come to paleo of my own volition (after several months of mocking paleo). The same is true of my atheism, but that's another message board...

The annoying part about nutrition science is that it is so imprecise that it is possible to come up with a study result that supports just about anything. The vegan commenter will always have scientific evidence to back herself up. (Just like we do.) All we have to go on in the paleo/primal/WAPF/ancestral health community is our n=1 results. We have to love our diets and all the benefits they bring to us and the food system. Through our shining examples of health and fitness, we will convince more and more people to abandon the SAD and veg*ism. We'll just have to wait for them to come to the conclusion themselves.

Keep on keepin' on, but don't waste your time on this commenter.

0
2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on April 14, 2013
at 10:42 PM

"don't test me on my knowledge, I've been researching"

dude sounds like a little bitch to me.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!