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Paleo Summit Hack-a-thon: Dallas & Melissa Hartwig, 3/2

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 02, 2012 at 2:58 AM

What: The Paleo Summit (see also this post)

Who: Dallas & Melissa Hartwig ??? Health Educators, Whole9 Life

Topic: Paleo for Vegetarians. Can vegetarians be Paleo? Good question! The Hartwig???s share how the Paleo Diet is not all about eating meat, and how vegans/vegetarians can take advantage of the science supporting Paleo to improve their health.

What did you think of this presentation?

24fcc21452ebe39c032be6801d6bbadd

(9812)

on March 02, 2012
at 05:07 PM

Agreed Shari! I've talked with Melissa a couple times about dealing with folks with different perspectives and she stressed emphasizing the things that won't scare people off (veggies, MUFAs, etc.); very inclusive & practical advice! I think they really shine when talking with people, moreso than in writing.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on March 02, 2012
at 02:40 PM

They recommended natto and tempeh, not so much tofu except in rotation. And they definitely didn't recommend seitan. I specifically heard (paraphrased) 'avoid all grains, including seitan'. Of course, they didn't say *why* seitan was problematic, which I would have appreciated, but they did say it.

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6 Answers

5
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on March 02, 2012
at 03:45 PM

I thought it was great in that it wasn't trying to convert people to meat-eating and was respectful of people's perspectives, cultures, and opinions. The paleo community needs to be much more welcoming to those in the vegetarian community and that starts with acceptance and respect which is what this presentation offered I thought.

I am mixed on the unfermented soy rec but that was the only blip I saw. Still if you have someone eating tofu having them go to non-GMO tofu is huge and an important, concrete step they can take to improve health.

If paleo is truly about health and not about dogma we need to continue to reach out to other food communities and look for areas of commonality and identify ways that everyone can incorporate paleo concepts into their diet to improve health. If we believe that good health is everyone's birthright we should welcome people from every food perspective so that everyone has access to our healthful ideas. I am glad to see a step in that direction with this presentation and hope to see much more of the same.

I've never been the biggest Whole9 fan but I thought they did a great job on this one.

24fcc21452ebe39c032be6801d6bbadd

(9812)

on March 02, 2012
at 05:07 PM

Agreed Shari! I've talked with Melissa a couple times about dealing with folks with different perspectives and she stressed emphasizing the things that won't scare people off (veggies, MUFAs, etc.); very inclusive & practical advice! I think they really shine when talking with people, moreso than in writing.

3
E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

on March 02, 2012
at 02:39 PM

Mixed feelings. I liked most of the talk, and thought it very informative.

I think the Hartwigs are spot on with their discussion of different approaches for the different reasons people are vegetarian. The veg for health people are going to be easier to sway by science than the people who are veg for ethical or religious reasons.

I'm glad there's a good set of resources for vegetarians or people curious about moving towards paleo from a vegetarian diet. That part of the presentation is extremely helpful. Melissa's discussion of CAFOs, etc., is a good one for those who think paleo is all about "eat as much meat as possible without regard to where it came from".

When I was vegan there was a big discussion on a forum I frequented about bivalves (no central nervous system) for people who were deficient in nutrients--why someone would or wouldn't eat them. Most of the people on the forum were extremely against the idea, but a few (mostly the vegans for health reasons) were open to the idea and hinted to that. So I think that's cool. (+1 for the Peter Singer reference.)

The talk of fermented soy was okay-- But I am a little disappointed that non-fermented soy was given as a good option. Melissa talks a little about properly preparing and fermenting other legumes, and rotating the varieties, which I appreciate. *Re: soy--she DOES say it's not optimal, but doesn't really go into the problems that CAN stem from non-fermented soy.

Melissa also talks about avoiding all grains, INCLUDING SEITAN (which another poster seems to think that she recommends?), conventional dairy, and processed soy products.

Dallas does talk about a veg grain-free/processed-food-free diet being okay on the protein end IF the person in question isn't doing really intense athletics. He notes that endurance athletes are probably going to have slightly better performance on the lower protein/higher carb than power athletes trying for a veg paleo-ish diet.

(Bear with me-- I'm typing this as I am listening.)

At about 33 minutes or so, Dallas talks about how to properly prepare legumes (and grains, if the person wants to eat them) and why you'd do that. Probably really helpful for people who would eat them.

Lastly they talk about supplementation. Namely, O-3, B-12, and iron--which although probaby problematic for those of us who regularly eat red meat may be necessary for veg folks? Dallas goes into both veg and non-veg sources of O-3 and gives a good explanation as to why it might be necessary to supplement for vegetarians.

All in all a good talk, I think. Only a few downsides that I noticed (namely, re: unfermented soy... but they did mention that it's suboptimal and should be eaten rarely in rotation with other protein sources).

2
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:10 PM

My visceral reaction was much like raydawg's but I realize they weren't talking to me anyhow. This presentation isn't for people who are thriving on either paleo or the v-world. It's for the "swing votes" by people who aren't thriving and are looking for help.

So, if they're receptive the Hartwigs will help them rotate in some animal products; if they aren't receptive, the Hartwigs will try to identify the best available options within self-imposed limitations.

Overall, it's a very reasonable, flexible thought process. I'm glad I'm not in a spot that I need such advice because the Hartwigs are very open in saying they have no "optimal" options to offer and I think I deserve optimal. :-))

1
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on March 02, 2012
at 10:36 AM

Pure evil.

Started out very nicely, but they started recommending things like soy, seitan, etc. As a male, the advice to eat soy anything, is akin to being recommended estrogen pills.

I could see how someone in a vegetarian mind set might be approached with the idea of eating non-sentient bi-valves, but seriously, seitan? Pure gluten evil. I'd go as far as to say that Satan is less evil than seitan. I don't see how this recommendation can be anything remotely related to paleo.

I'd sooner eat insects.

I understand where they're coming from, but it just give me the chills listening to that horrible advice! This episode, and the Matt Stone one, really should not have been included in this summit.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on March 02, 2012
at 02:40 PM

They recommended natto and tempeh, not so much tofu except in rotation. And they definitely didn't recommend seitan. I specifically heard (paraphrased) 'avoid all grains, including seitan'. Of course, they didn't say *why* seitan was problematic, which I would have appreciated, but they did say it.

0
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on March 03, 2012
at 07:29 AM

It was good to hear. Tough topic considering the audience but they handled it well.. They really do not like dairy. :-)

0
Af3e3615beba642bcafd0f21d64d74f7

on March 03, 2012
at 12:21 AM

Out of support for the movement, probably.

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