9

votes

Paleo at home, Vegan when dining out?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 04, 2011 at 4:40 PM

Day by day, I am becoming a person who shuns restaurants and when dining out is unavoidable I am considering becoming a "restaurant vegan". I am becoming more edified in my belief that human consumption of CAFO/IRAF animals is ethically wrong and prefer to avoid the unpleasantness of feasting on a poor SAD stall-raised cow or even an egg from a chicken that never saw the sunlight.

Now that my appetite has adjusted and decreased, it occurred to me that when I have lunch meetings, I could actually just order a meat-free salad, and eat my GRAF when I get home or back to the office (I like to bring my lunch). In addition to avoiding IRAF, this also solves the problem of asking the chef (if there is a chef) to prepare your entree with butter instead of industrial fats.

I am not trying to shoot for 100% paleo perfection here, and I don't mean this to be a question about nutrition, but more about making humane choices in the type of animal that is the significant portion of my diet.

I am from Texas, where beef is what's for dinner :) and live right on the Arkansas border where factory chicken farming is KING. I don't want to be a vegan and I firmly believe that eating animals is good for me and good for the environment provided they are healthy animals. I have always based the majority of my calories around meat and I find it odd now that I want to order protein free salads when their origin is beyond my control.

As someone who has struggled with eating disorders in the past this development may or may not be significant and I am interested in the paleohack's community opinion. Has anyone else reduced or eliminated ordering meat at a restaurant or become a vegan when dining out for humane reasons as opposed to purely health reasons? For you long-time paleo eaters---Is this a natural progression of a more paleo lifestyle or is this bordering on orthorexia?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 23, 2011
at 04:57 PM

Halal is more likely to be grass fed since it is commonly imported.

A089b683ee0498f2b21b7edfa300e405

(3895)

on February 23, 2011
at 08:09 AM

Melissa, How is Halal better than anything else - "Halal" is just a different way the meat is butchered (and not very compassionate) and does not in any way reflect the quality of the environment the animal came from or was raised in.

034c678bff434ab3781e3f1771018af9

(279)

on February 07, 2011
at 04:34 PM

I'm not trolling. I'm also not sure why it's a "lame essay," though I'd be interested to read an analysis. I'm interested in nutritional information being discussed here, because it's not stuff I find being discussed in the mainstream. A lot of it seems right on to me, though some people here seem to make overstated claims based on available evidence (this is to be expected, and we all know tons of vegans who do this). I take it that there's a moral argument to be vegan, which affects my dietary decisions, and within those parameters, I'm interested in how best to construct my diet.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 06, 2011
at 03:14 AM

i should not have used the term "restaurant vegan", probably would have been better to say "protein free" in order to avoid the people trying to convert the meat eaters.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 05, 2011
at 08:02 PM

I only haven't banned him because occasionally he posts something constructive, but I don't appreciate posting the same frankly lame essay over and over again. I don't go to vegan message boards and post excerpts from The Vegetarian Myth...that would be rude.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 05, 2011
at 06:56 PM

Troll alert!!!!

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 05, 2011
at 04:29 PM

Besides, you already posted that here http://paleohacks.com/questions/15188/are-you-an-ethical-predator/20906#20906

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 05, 2011
at 04:27 PM

Why are you even here? You aren't interested in paleo except to debunk it.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 05, 2011
at 02:28 PM

Erin: your last sentence is quite correct. I agree with much of what you said. I think it's equally important to note that all of us were BORN into a society that casually destroys things, and recognizing that fact is a step toward maturity that many people never take. It puts us in the awkward position of having to make individual choices that are inconvenient/difficult in order to be more ethical, whereas it would be better to change the system to make ethics effortless. E.g., if all meat were humanely raised and grass-fed, if all goods were biodegradable, etc.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 05, 2011
at 02:23 PM

Leah: any discussion of what is "best" and what is "worst" is difficult... just like it is very hard to pin down what is "optimal" in a nutritional context. Anyway, I think that suffering through rabbit food in order to be less inhumane is an admirable thing, and I'm glad you're willing to do it. I am less willing to do it, at this stage in my life, due to my daily struggle to get enough calories. But perhaps later, I will join your ranks.

86e631c6164bfdf4221434e2d38125b3

(414)

on February 05, 2011
at 01:44 PM

Thanks for the answer! see what you're saying. The discussions about "ethical" and non-ethical in general (not here specifically) seem to be rife with misunderstanding because everyone has their own ideas about what that really means. I just read Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer, and it has really changed the way I want to eat. But it's also made me think a lot more about how all our choices impact the environment, and how our food is grown/raised. We have really become a society that casually destroys things around us for our own comfort and pleasure.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 05, 2011
at 05:16 AM

no, chemical vegetables and factory chicken are all distressing which is why eating out is not as enjoyable any more. but i am glad to know others think the same way, no matter if they eat salads or choose the CAFO meat. I guess making a choice on food origin is a natural progression and origin is a normal bit of information in some countries. http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search/label/French%20paradox

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 05, 2011
at 04:03 AM

Melissa, your "taxonomy" is extremely helpful and I thank you for your suggestions for a small town!

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on February 05, 2011
at 01:58 AM

You think what is done to the vegetables is any better? GMO, Pesticide, Growth Chemicals etc... Wild meat = organic vegetables. Cafo meat = standard veggies. And I'll take Cafo meat over standard veggies all day. Just like I'll take wild meat over organic veg.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:56 PM

...a discussion about which group is the worst? The McFatties who like their chicken nuggets all shaped the same way and their apple pies square? The Paleos who scarf down 7 Wal-Mart rotisserie chickens a day? The vegans who won't slurp a raw oyster because they don't want to harm an animal but think Pop Tarts are a food group? Thanks for your POV Jae, opposing viewpoints make this site fun! {Sorry to keep adding to this in the comments, but the progression adds to the content}

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:45 PM

So, really I asked a question that I should have probably made into two questions 1) if I eat like a vegan at a restaurant am I a fussy orthorexic or is this a natural progression of healthy paleo mindfulness? and 2) Do you feel inhumane eating CAFO meat at a restaurant when you could easily be satisfied with veganish fare until you returned home to a tasty grass fed lamb chop? This could easily be a very lively discussion inspired by you Jae...

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:34 PM

...When i was new to paleo, it was all about avoiding hunger so I could stay away from the grains, sugar and those pesky frankenfats, so I would say: "gimme double meat on that please, hold the dressing". Now that fasting isn't so difficult, it is not that big of a deal to eat a plain salad.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:31 PM

no dressing at all, pure rabbit food :) And believe me, fasting is now easily doable and would be preferable, but you know sometimes when dining with colleagues and family members it would be way too awkward to just drink and watch them eat. Really would cast a "bug under the microscope" feeling over what should be a social occasion, and of course traveling for extended periods would make fasting unacceptable as well...

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:39 PM

Leah, I forgot to ask: so you're getting a protein-less salad... with no dressing? I would rather just fast. Or get a tea or something to be sociable.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:33 PM

Erin, I answered you above in an edit.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:17 PM

@Leah, you have valid points, especially on the health side. And it may be doable for you. Personally, however, I could not get by on only a salad with no animal products in it. I am a growing boy and hoping to gain 20 lbs. this year. Of course, if you eat CAFO beef (but not pork/poultry), you don't really have to worry about excess n6, but rather inadequate n3. I also (mistakenly) thought you were being subjected to these outings more often than 1x or 2x a month, which would make it increasingly difficult for me to forgo protein frequently. Your solution may be best after all.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:17 PM

agreed Erin, but I think Jae's point is that Chipotle for example, might give me a warm fuzzy feeling for the things they do right, but in the end it is still an industrial way to deliver food to the masses EVEN IF it is a better choice than McDonalds.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:14 PM

and the rodents etc. that are harmed in harvesting, but that is an interesting point, even though there is no way that can compare to the gross conditions of feedlots. The ideal situation would be to just bring my own GRAF and make an impression by opening my lunch box in a restaurant, funny and impractical!

86e631c6164bfdf4221434e2d38125b3

(414)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:10 PM

I don't understand why you think avoiding CAFO meat doesn't make for an ethical decision?

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:09 PM

"if you feel strongly enough that you are willing to trade your health for the non-consumption of CAFO meat, then go for it." I would think that eating a salad only a couple of times a month when forced to eat at a restaurant for social or travel reasons is the better choice in avoiding O-6 from CAFO meat and also avoid the industrial oils all at once. Kill two birds with one stone if you will :) Good point and well-taken on the "makes you less unethical than the alternatives". My question wasn't specifically about the environment concerning factory vegetable production-a la Monsanto...

E7a462d6e99fec7e8f0ddda11b34a770

(1638)

on February 04, 2011
at 07:34 PM

"... the idea of even requesting a differently prepared meal is a bit taboo here." Yeah, I hear that. Only in my case, it is my non-Paleo husband who gets really ticked off with me if I try the butter/vegetable oil thing at restaurants. Sometimes, marriage really IS about compromise. ;p

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 04, 2011
at 07:22 PM

What is Chipotle? I live in England we don't have that here.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 05:05 PM

I think that the more successful Chipotle becomes, the more widespread the use of humane healthy meat will become. However, it will take years to reach small towns, and more than likely it never will. Sadly for areas with a small population, large franchised meat is better for profits, and only in large cities is the customer base large enough to support a $35 GF ribeye.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 04:59 PM

And when I travel, I always try to make arrangements to eat at Chipotle! I will have to check out the others you mentioned as soon as I can.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 04:58 PM

None of the above mentioned restaurants here, as this is a pretty small town. No GF meat at any restaurant here-we have your basic Chili's, OTB, Ruby Tuesday's assortment. With many friends in the cattle industry, the money is too good to not send your cows to the feed lot. Slanker's is only sixty miles away, but my guess is that most of their meat goes to individuals like me and niche restaurants like the ones you suggest in larger cities.

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9 Answers

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15
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 04, 2011
at 10:18 PM

If you order lamb there is a 75% chance it's imported and thus not CAFO since the major exporter of lamb is New Zealand, which pastures its lamb. Either way, for future reference based on my agricultural experience, here are the most wretched foods to the least

  • CAFO Pork
  • Farmed salmon (I don't care about fish feelings, but it's too envi destructive)
  • CAFO Chicken/eggs
  • Wild endangered or threatened fish
  • Natural chicken/eggs
  • Organic chicken/eggs
  • Feedlot beef/lamb
  • Natural beef/lamb
  • Halal beef/lamb
  • Organic beef/lamb
  • Pastured livestock in general and wild fish, wild game

Why? Well no cow is raised indoors all its life. Even a CAFO cow spends most of its life on the range. I've visited factory cow operations and most really aren't bad. Now pork and chicken CAFOs really are disgusting and destroy the environment. I draw the line at natural chicken/eggs, that's about as low on the list as I go, though sometimes I have questionable sashimi.

One thing I've learned is ASK. You can only make a difference in a small town if you do this. It might be uncomfortable, but it is worth it to let restaurants know that they don't have something you are looking for.

"Where is the beef from?

"I don't know, let me ask the chef." minutes pass "He doesn't know."

"That's too bad. Well I'll have it anyway, but I'd love it if you guys would consider carrying grass fed beef products or sourcing from a local farm."

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 05, 2011
at 04:03 AM

Melissa, your "taxonomy" is extremely helpful and I thank you for your suggestions for a small town!

A089b683ee0498f2b21b7edfa300e405

(3895)

on February 23, 2011
at 08:09 AM

Melissa, How is Halal better than anything else - "Halal" is just a different way the meat is butchered (and not very compassionate) and does not in any way reflect the quality of the environment the animal came from or was raised in.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 23, 2011
at 04:57 PM

Halal is more likely to be grass fed since it is commonly imported.

3
77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 04, 2011
at 07:36 PM

I would much rather eat CAFO meat than industrial oils, from a health perspective.

From an ethical perspective, if you feel strongly enough that you are willing to trade your health for the non-consumption of CAFO meat, then go for it.

However, keep this in mind: the production of industrial oils and other vegan/vegetarian-friendly foods is also damaging to the environment, and not particularly friendly to the millions of rodents and other small animals who are killed in the harvesting process.

Talking about "food ethics" at restaurants is difficult at best. At worst, it's a joke. Restaurants are there to make a profit by selling you prepared food or edible foodlike substances.

Unfortunately, the way our economy and agricultural systems are structured, it very difficult, if not impossible, for a restaurant to maximize profits and ethics. Throw in food politics (i.e., the conventional wisdom that veg*n diets are good for health and the environment) and it is even more difficult.

Yes, there are restaurants that aim to prioritize ethics over profits -- they may sacrifice some profit in order to become slightly less unethical. But more often, they repackage their image to give off the appearance of being less unethical (with "local" meats and "organic" vegetables and recycled napkins and the like).

Nonetheless, people have to make decisions in the real world about varying degrees of ethics -- is X or Y more ethical, even if neither are ideal? That is the question you are posing here. My personal choice is to eat the CAFO meat when I have to, but to support pastured animal production whenever I can. Your choice may be to avoid CAFO meat when you eat out. Neither solution is ideal, and arguments can be made for both sides.

Make whatever decision you think is best for you. Just don't pretend that avoiding CAFO meat makes you "ethical." It may make you somewhat less unethical than the alternatives.

Edit: I wanted to answer Erin's question here instead of in comments.

Leah said what I would say, and let me add a little rant of my own: nothing we do is ethical, per se. Even if you bike everywhere, never drive, grow your own food and compost and do everything "right," we were all born into an unsustainable world. Do you make all your own clothes? Does your house run entirely on renewable fuels? If so, were your solar panels sustainably manufactured and transported to your home?

I bet you use more water in a single day than my neighbors did in an entire month when I was in the Peace Corps in West Africa. (I do, too. It's not a judgment I'm making here.)

Avoiding CAFO meat is admirable. It is a necessary step toward taking down Monsanto, industrial corn production, soil erosion/depletion, and mistreatment of animals in the name of food production, among other things.

But it really bugs me when people think they are doing "good" for the environment or for animal rights just because they eat "organic" or "free-range" or "local." Our basic lifestyles do great harm to the environment and to animals everywhere -- not just the ones we kill for food after raising them in terrible conditions.

It is not our fault we were born into economies and cultures where doing such harm has become unavoidable, and it is laughable to think that reversing such harms will come about any time soon.

Avoiding CAFO meat is one important step, nothing more, nothing less. It does not make you ethical. It merely makes you one step closer to being less unethical than everybody else.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:17 PM

agreed Erin, but I think Jae's point is that Chipotle for example, might give me a warm fuzzy feeling for the things they do right, but in the end it is still an industrial way to deliver food to the masses EVEN IF it is a better choice than McDonalds.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:45 PM

So, really I asked a question that I should have probably made into two questions 1) if I eat like a vegan at a restaurant am I a fussy orthorexic or is this a natural progression of healthy paleo mindfulness? and 2) Do you feel inhumane eating CAFO meat at a restaurant when you could easily be satisfied with veganish fare until you returned home to a tasty grass fed lamb chop? This could easily be a very lively discussion inspired by you Jae...

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:39 PM

Leah, I forgot to ask: so you're getting a protein-less salad... with no dressing? I would rather just fast. Or get a tea or something to be sociable.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:14 PM

and the rodents etc. that are harmed in harvesting, but that is an interesting point, even though there is no way that can compare to the gross conditions of feedlots. The ideal situation would be to just bring my own GRAF and make an impression by opening my lunch box in a restaurant, funny and impractical!

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:17 PM

@Leah, you have valid points, especially on the health side. And it may be doable for you. Personally, however, I could not get by on only a salad with no animal products in it. I am a growing boy and hoping to gain 20 lbs. this year. Of course, if you eat CAFO beef (but not pork/poultry), you don't really have to worry about excess n6, but rather inadequate n3. I also (mistakenly) thought you were being subjected to these outings more often than 1x or 2x a month, which would make it increasingly difficult for me to forgo protein frequently. Your solution may be best after all.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:31 PM

no dressing at all, pure rabbit food :) And believe me, fasting is now easily doable and would be preferable, but you know sometimes when dining with colleagues and family members it would be way too awkward to just drink and watch them eat. Really would cast a "bug under the microscope" feeling over what should be a social occasion, and of course traveling for extended periods would make fasting unacceptable as well...

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:33 PM

Erin, I answered you above in an edit.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:34 PM

...When i was new to paleo, it was all about avoiding hunger so I could stay away from the grains, sugar and those pesky frankenfats, so I would say: "gimme double meat on that please, hold the dressing". Now that fasting isn't so difficult, it is not that big of a deal to eat a plain salad.

86e631c6164bfdf4221434e2d38125b3

(414)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:10 PM

I don't understand why you think avoiding CAFO meat doesn't make for an ethical decision?

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 10:56 PM

...a discussion about which group is the worst? The McFatties who like their chicken nuggets all shaped the same way and their apple pies square? The Paleos who scarf down 7 Wal-Mart rotisserie chickens a day? The vegans who won't slurp a raw oyster because they don't want to harm an animal but think Pop Tarts are a food group? Thanks for your POV Jae, opposing viewpoints make this site fun! {Sorry to keep adding to this in the comments, but the progression adds to the content}

86e631c6164bfdf4221434e2d38125b3

(414)

on February 05, 2011
at 01:44 PM

Thanks for the answer! see what you're saying. The discussions about "ethical" and non-ethical in general (not here specifically) seem to be rife with misunderstanding because everyone has their own ideas about what that really means. I just read Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer, and it has really changed the way I want to eat. But it's also made me think a lot more about how all our choices impact the environment, and how our food is grown/raised. We have really become a society that casually destroys things around us for our own comfort and pleasure.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:09 PM

"if you feel strongly enough that you are willing to trade your health for the non-consumption of CAFO meat, then go for it." I would think that eating a salad only a couple of times a month when forced to eat at a restaurant for social or travel reasons is the better choice in avoiding O-6 from CAFO meat and also avoid the industrial oils all at once. Kill two birds with one stone if you will :) Good point and well-taken on the "makes you less unethical than the alternatives". My question wasn't specifically about the environment concerning factory vegetable production-a la Monsanto...

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 05, 2011
at 02:28 PM

Erin: your last sentence is quite correct. I agree with much of what you said. I think it's equally important to note that all of us were BORN into a society that casually destroys things, and recognizing that fact is a step toward maturity that many people never take. It puts us in the awkward position of having to make individual choices that are inconvenient/difficult in order to be more ethical, whereas it would be better to change the system to make ethics effortless. E.g., if all meat were humanely raised and grass-fed, if all goods were biodegradable, etc.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on February 05, 2011
at 02:23 PM

Leah: any discussion of what is "best" and what is "worst" is difficult... just like it is very hard to pin down what is "optimal" in a nutritional context. Anyway, I think that suffering through rabbit food in order to be less inhumane is an admirable thing, and I'm glad you're willing to do it. I am less willing to do it, at this stage in my life, due to my daily struggle to get enough calories. But perhaps later, I will join your ranks.

2
Medium avatar

on February 04, 2011
at 08:06 PM

I've given up on restaurants except for sushi once a week or once every two weeks at a place that serves all wild fish and lists how they are caught and from where. I also sit at the sushi bar and watch the fellow make it, so I know there isn't anything too bad finding its way in. I make the rest of my meals from scratch. So much more satisfying.

2
C90eecdd76cf57a387095fa49de23807

(960)

on February 04, 2011
at 06:46 PM

Oh, absolutely. Living in metro Detroit, I have never trusted the nutrition or healthfulness of anything prepared for me. I think a chef would be happy to use butter--and, in fact, when I worked in a restaurant the chef was a wonderfully kind and accomodating man--but the idea of even requesting a differently prepared meal is a bit taboo here.

Still, when I dine, I have to be resigned to getting some omega 6s. But it's even worse than that, since I am still concerned about the oxidation and trans fat potential of the PUFAs. When heated over and over again, when stored for long periods of time, and when exposed to plenty of light, a relatively innocuous omega 6 is now an oxidized radical or a horrifically damaging trans fat.

So--yes. When I dine, I tend towards salads. What's more, I'm sensitive to nightshades and to dairy, so it's particularly difficult to find a prepared dish without those ingredients.

E7a462d6e99fec7e8f0ddda11b34a770

(1638)

on February 04, 2011
at 07:34 PM

"... the idea of even requesting a differently prepared meal is a bit taboo here." Yeah, I hear that. Only in my case, it is my non-Paleo husband who gets really ticked off with me if I try the butter/vegetable oil thing at restaurants. Sometimes, marriage really IS about compromise. ;p

1
86e631c6164bfdf4221434e2d38125b3

(414)

on February 04, 2011
at 08:05 PM

I am going in this direction myself. I have just recently stopped buying/eating factory famed meat and started eating humanely raised and slaughtered meat. I've also come to the conclusion that I will at least be eating vegetarian (salads with lots of veggies) at restaurants when I don't know the source of the meat.

It's very encouraging to me that our favorite lunch spot downtown just started serving certified humane meatloaf made with grass fed beef. It was delicious too!

0
90fc4f1e94bab32e4fbab7468e3cecb5

on February 05, 2011
at 08:09 PM

I order a generous portion of meat when going out, and I get extra vegetables (usually substituting something green for the starchy vegetables. I've become pretty selective in where I eat out now, and, at least in Seattle and I'm sure it's similar in any other big city, there are lot of options for people like you who want humanely raised/slaughtered animals. There's one place here that gets all their meat from local farms that know how to treat their animals so I'm fine eating there. Plus, you can email the chef and ask questions: I've asked him a few questions about ingredients and he's always been quick to reply, so I know what exactly I'm eating.

0
2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 04, 2011
at 04:48 PM

I think this is a very good question, maybe you could speak to individual restaurants to find out about their food ethics? Surely there must be some places that sell "well treated" meat, or use free range eggs, if not maybe they should, you could start a movement :D like Jamie's school dinners but instead highlighting the use of poorly "abused" animal products in restaurants :D :D love this question though and I for one will be considering asking restaurants before I visit about the animal products they source as a result of it.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 05:05 PM

I think that the more successful Chipotle becomes, the more widespread the use of humane healthy meat will become. However, it will take years to reach small towns, and more than likely it never will. Sadly for areas with a small population, large franchised meat is better for profits, and only in large cities is the customer base large enough to support a $35 GF ribeye.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 04, 2011
at 07:22 PM

What is Chipotle? I live in England we don't have that here.

0
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on February 04, 2011
at 04:48 PM

I don't know about out there, but here in Atlanta there are a ton of restaurants that offer humane and grassfed meat. Even national chains like Chipotle, Moe, Fuddruckers are getting in on it.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 04:59 PM

And when I travel, I always try to make arrangements to eat at Chipotle! I will have to check out the others you mentioned as soon as I can.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 04, 2011
at 04:58 PM

None of the above mentioned restaurants here, as this is a pretty small town. No GF meat at any restaurant here-we have your basic Chili's, OTB, Ruby Tuesday's assortment. With many friends in the cattle industry, the money is too good to not send your cows to the feed lot. Slanker's is only sixty miles away, but my guess is that most of their meat goes to individuals like me and niche restaurants like the ones you suggest in larger cities.

-4
034c678bff434ab3781e3f1771018af9

(279)

on February 05, 2011
at 04:17 PM

You might consider reading this article: http://www.fas.rutgers.edu/cms/phil/dmdocuments/Eating_Animals_the_Nice_Way.pdf

In it, McMahan presents an argument for not eating animals at all. That is, he makes an argument that what's done even to humanely raised animals can't be morally justified. It's really a quite good article and isn't long.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 05, 2011
at 04:27 PM

Why are you even here? You aren't interested in paleo except to debunk it.

D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

(4111)

on February 06, 2011
at 03:14 AM

i should not have used the term "restaurant vegan", probably would have been better to say "protein free" in order to avoid the people trying to convert the meat eaters.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 05, 2011
at 04:29 PM

Besides, you already posted that here http://paleohacks.com/questions/15188/are-you-an-ethical-predator/20906#20906

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 05, 2011
at 08:02 PM

I only haven't banned him because occasionally he posts something constructive, but I don't appreciate posting the same frankly lame essay over and over again. I don't go to vegan message boards and post excerpts from The Vegetarian Myth...that would be rude.

034c678bff434ab3781e3f1771018af9

(279)

on February 07, 2011
at 04:34 PM

I'm not trolling. I'm also not sure why it's a "lame essay," though I'd be interested to read an analysis. I'm interested in nutritional information being discussed here, because it's not stuff I find being discussed in the mainstream. A lot of it seems right on to me, though some people here seem to make overstated claims based on available evidence (this is to be expected, and we all know tons of vegans who do this). I take it that there's a moral argument to be vegan, which affects my dietary decisions, and within those parameters, I'm interested in how best to construct my diet.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on February 05, 2011
at 06:56 PM

Troll alert!!!!

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