3

votes

How to cope when Vegan(because of animal consumption, not diet)and AIP?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 24, 2013 at 4:37 AM

I have been on the AIP diet for a week. All of the plant based proteins I was eating were throwing "gas on the fire." I have not consumed any animal products for 25yrs. and now I am told that consuming animals is the only way to live healthy and get my disease into remission. Has anyone else had to cope with this kind of ethical dilemma? In my heart, I feel it is wrong to eat animals and I feel physically ill when I consider doing so. So far this week I have remained vegan and it feels like a huge trap. I can't eat the foods I love and I can't eat the foods that will help restore my health.

4b62159e54b82301a461f82a8a944247

(0)

on March 15, 2014
at 11:06 AM

I read that a good quality protein powder can be a substitute to help vegan eaters , not sure if it is Paleo.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on April 24, 2013
at 12:32 AM

how are u doing..?

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 08:31 PM

yw :) i wrote this - "Any transition serious enough to alter your definition of self will require not just small adjustments in your way of living and thinking but a full-on metamorphosis." jk i totally didnt, but i found it for you. And in your case the end of your metamorphosis will be you emerging as healthy person. So get started on it soonest possible.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 26, 2013
at 10:22 AM

It is amazing that Auto immune diseases are able to be controlled by diet. I am really looking forward to being healthy again! Thanks for sharing your story, and you have my word - I will not to eat any catfish ;)

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 26, 2013
at 10:16 AM

Thank you, Mary! I appreciate your thinking of me. This is a very difficult transition to be making.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 26, 2013
at 10:12 AM

Thank you for your thoughtful insight. I can see that there will have to be a period of retraining my mind and way of thinking about eating. I am really struggling with living in the Paleo/Vegan gap because I am on a strict AIP, so no nuts, seeds, beans, etc for at least a year. Thanks again for your words of encouragement.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 26, 2013
at 09:34 AM

Thank you for your words of support and encouragement!

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 26, 2013
at 09:34 AM

Thanks for sharing your story. I am headed in that direction if I don't turn things around soon. I miss my vegan go-to comfort foods. What did you find that you liked that didn't involve meat? How is your AI doing now? After a week on the AIP diet I decided to eat fish. I could only manage one tiny little bite...

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on March 25, 2013
at 04:22 PM

Not a terrible idea, Albert, but I'm not sure that it would be any more "ethical." Predators are smarter than prey, so you would be taking the life of an animal with more intelligence (if that is a scale that resonates with you). Additionally, animals aren't being "unpeaceful" by eating meat (though I understand that may just be the word that came to mind, not 100% what you meant.) Eating meat is the nature of a predator and it is just doing what it needs to survive.

048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

(3150)

on March 25, 2013
at 11:04 AM

Yep, the last paragraph is really something and this is why I wondered, when having trouble deciding if going full Paleo or not, if I could at least introduce some animal that are natural predators and let be the more 'peaceful' ones. In fact, I don't have still eaten any cow, goat or sheep to tell the truth, I kind of resist to the idea.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:55 PM

Finding animal products to eat that are, at the least, reducing cruelty to the animals is a step along the ethical spectrum as well. Proper husbandry, feeding the animals the foods they are evolved to eat, animals that get to live the lives of a healthy animal.

46d2d71df39b4a6336df6d8307b25d87

(278)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:30 PM

"We ate all we could from the animals we harvested, and I see nothing wrong with that morally." I believe that eating that way is significantly more moral than sticking one's head in the sand by refusing to participate in the web of life.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:27 PM

colin: :) yep rawbrahs and all other former vegans(especially those in the public eye) ... who had enough guts to fess up and tell it how it is despite the fallouts and backlash.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:23 PM

yw friend..please stay off of vegan boards, websites and you tube channels and hang around here instead- most importantly do wut ya gotta do to get your health back on track. Peace~

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2040)

on March 24, 2013
at 06:38 PM

+1 for the Raw Brahs, I wish those dudes were around when I was trying out veganism.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on March 24, 2013
at 06:37 PM

LOVE your last paragraph! The lion does not hate the gazelle. It is not being cruel to the gazelle. It's just hungry and gazelles are what it needs. And also love your point about the vegan diet not being free of death to animals. It is better to accept the deaths we cause and make their life go as far as it can in helping us when we choose to take it. I, too, think it is important that we understand that we are animals, no better or worse than other animals, just more intelligent.

5e5ff249c9161b8cd96d7eff6043bc3a

(4713)

on March 24, 2013
at 06:19 PM

I think there's a lot of former vegans here who can do a much better job of answering this question that I can, but just wanted to comment and say good luck and let you know the PH community is here for you. i assume it will be an arduous journey, but nothing worth doing is easy.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 04:07 PM

Thank you for the link and for empathizing, I really appreciate the help.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 04:04 PM

Thank you for the insight here. This will most likely be the case.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 05:51 AM

Thank you for your thoughtful insight. You are right, I have a lot of undoing to do...Thanks for the helpful links. I really appreciate your feedback.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 24, 2013
at 05:20 AM

as far as feeling physical ill.. these are psychosomatic responses after having had so many "bad" associations with consuming animal products implanted in your pysche. Read all you can about the incredible health benefits of animal proteins and try to undo all those bad connections and associations. Rest assured your omnivorous body will thank you once you let it do what its designed to do. Goes without saying that you should try to get pastured and humanely raised products, which will hopefully ease some of your stress.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 05:07 AM

Thank you for your insight. I appreciate the feedback.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 05:06 AM

Thank you for the book recommendation. I will be looking into that.

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11 Answers

5
1f17fe8167fa0e9b98a06902ea261502

on March 24, 2013
at 05:14 PM

Hi, I'm also an ex-vegan. Welcome! I've had to go through several rounds of becoming okay with eating animal products again. The things that have helped me the most are:

  1. Giving myself permission to hurt animals to be healthy. It was a huge step in self love, and I still feel guilty sometimes about taking the life of another creature so I can eat. But I realize it's necessary for my health, so I silently thank the animal that died for my consumption and eat it mindfully.

  2. Focus on eating vegan paleo foods as a transition. Brendan Brazier has a book and website http://myvega.com/recipes that were helpful to me as an active, athletic vegan. It's very similar to paleo, in that it excludes wheat and other modern grains. There's a lot of recipes from the book and website I still use and I find myself having vegan days every so often just because of what I'm hungry for.

  3. Getting over the 'ick' factor. For a long time, I convinced myself that animal products were not food. This sometimes comes back to bite me, as I get grossed out by foods that I find appetizing! Don't beat yourself up, and remind yourself of why you're changing how you eat. Find animal products that appeal to you, and go from there.

When I made my transition to paleo a few months ago, I'd been vegan for six years. It started with an overwhelming urge to eat eggs. I'd tried all sorts of forms of being vegan, and they all left me tired, overweight and sick. Once I gave into eating eggs, and did some furious googling about ex-vegans, I jumped right into the deep end of the paleo pool!

Another thing that's helped me is knowing that instead of removing myself from the natural cycle of predator and prey, I'm fully participating in the vast web of life. There are deaths that occur in a vegan diet too, from field mice to other nuisance animals. I grew up hunting and fishing with my father and grandfather. We ate all we could from the animals we harvested, and I see nothing wrong with that morally. In the wild, animals eat other animals. And it's not a clean or nice kill when they do. We're animals too, and we have the ability to make decisions and justify them. I've made the decision to live within the natural order. However, I do keep an open mind and if something about paleo doesn't work for me in the long run, I'm willing to change it!

048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

(3150)

on March 25, 2013
at 11:04 AM

Yep, the last paragraph is really something and this is why I wondered, when having trouble deciding if going full Paleo or not, if I could at least introduce some animal that are natural predators and let be the more 'peaceful' ones. In fact, I don't have still eaten any cow, goat or sheep to tell the truth, I kind of resist to the idea.

46d2d71df39b4a6336df6d8307b25d87

(278)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:30 PM

"We ate all we could from the animals we harvested, and I see nothing wrong with that morally." I believe that eating that way is significantly more moral than sticking one's head in the sand by refusing to participate in the web of life.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on March 24, 2013
at 06:37 PM

LOVE your last paragraph! The lion does not hate the gazelle. It is not being cruel to the gazelle. It's just hungry and gazelles are what it needs. And also love your point about the vegan diet not being free of death to animals. It is better to accept the deaths we cause and make their life go as far as it can in helping us when we choose to take it. I, too, think it is important that we understand that we are animals, no better or worse than other animals, just more intelligent.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:55 PM

Finding animal products to eat that are, at the least, reducing cruelty to the animals is a step along the ethical spectrum as well. Proper husbandry, feeding the animals the foods they are evolved to eat, animals that get to live the lives of a healthy animal.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on March 25, 2013
at 04:22 PM

Not a terrible idea, Albert, but I'm not sure that it would be any more "ethical." Predators are smarter than prey, so you would be taking the life of an animal with more intelligence (if that is a scale that resonates with you). Additionally, animals aren't being "unpeaceful" by eating meat (though I understand that may just be the word that came to mind, not 100% what you meant.) Eating meat is the nature of a predator and it is just doing what it needs to survive.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 26, 2013
at 10:12 AM

Thank you for your thoughtful insight. I can see that there will have to be a period of retraining my mind and way of thinking about eating. I am really struggling with living in the Paleo/Vegan gap because I am on a strict AIP, so no nuts, seeds, beans, etc for at least a year. Thanks again for your words of encouragement.

4
Medium avatar

on March 24, 2013
at 06:45 PM

I had a vegan diet for 8 years. I had started to do more and more research on nutrition and one day I woke up and said, "I've become a nutritional martyr." Started eating shrimp, eggs and cheese and then moved to chicken, beef etc. I dropped 30 pounds, have control of my reactive hypoglycemia and all around feel quite good. Still bald as fuck though LOL.

The only animals I have qualms about eating these days are cephalopods, just because of their intelligence. It's kind of arbitrary though. Also catfish. I had a pet bullhead catfish years ago named "Catfish Baby." There's no way in hell I would eat one now.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 26, 2013
at 10:22 AM

It is amazing that Auto immune diseases are able to be controlled by diet. I am really looking forward to being healthy again! Thanks for sharing your story, and you have my word - I will not to eat any catfish ;)

4
89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

on March 24, 2013
at 05:11 AM

im sorry youre going through this right now. There are many former vegans here who have struggled with the ethical reasons of eating animal products.

Here are some links that i hope can help you come to terms with your dilemma ASAP and encourage you to do what is neccesary in order to regain your health.

http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/3141542244/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-tasha

http://alexandrajamieson.com/im-not-vegan-anymore/

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/02/03/raw-gone-wrong-when-the-honeymoon-is-over/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft_SqZuvhME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNON5iNf07o

feel better soon~

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 05:51 AM

Thank you for your thoughtful insight. You are right, I have a lot of undoing to do...Thanks for the helpful links. I really appreciate your feedback.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:27 PM

colin: :) yep rawbrahs and all other former vegans(especially those in the public eye) ... who had enough guts to fess up and tell it how it is despite the fallouts and backlash.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 24, 2013
at 05:20 AM

as far as feeling physical ill.. these are psychosomatic responses after having had so many "bad" associations with consuming animal products implanted in your pysche. Read all you can about the incredible health benefits of animal proteins and try to undo all those bad connections and associations. Rest assured your omnivorous body will thank you once you let it do what its designed to do. Goes without saying that you should try to get pastured and humanely raised products, which will hopefully ease some of your stress.

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2040)

on March 24, 2013
at 06:38 PM

+1 for the Raw Brahs, I wish those dudes were around when I was trying out veganism.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:23 PM

yw friend..please stay off of vegan boards, websites and you tube channels and hang around here instead- most importantly do wut ya gotta do to get your health back on track. Peace~

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 26, 2013
at 10:16 AM

Thank you, Mary! I appreciate your thinking of me. This is a very difficult transition to be making.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

(2097)

on March 26, 2013
at 08:31 PM

yw :) i wrote this - "Any transition serious enough to alter your definition of self will require not just small adjustments in your way of living and thinking but a full-on metamorphosis." jk i totally didnt, but i found it for you. And in your case the end of your metamorphosis will be you emerging as healthy person. So get started on it soonest possible.

4
D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on March 24, 2013
at 04:51 AM

Lierre Kieth maybe wrote the book for you, she dealt with the same dilemmas you are going through. Her book is called The Vegetarian Myth. She maybe overstated some claims, but she did evocatively describe why she chose vegan and the tear inside her when her health required she stop it.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 05:06 AM

Thank you for the book recommendation. I will be looking into that.

2
048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

on March 24, 2013
at 01:26 PM

I'm an ex ovo-lacto-vegetarian so I can understand how you feel.

This is a link to an article from Denise Minger's website, it gives really sound advice to people that wans to stick vegan so they can 'thrieve as much as they can'.

http://rawfoodsos.com/for-vegans/

Make sure to read all the user comments since they also contain useful info.

Hope that helps and can give some hints. Please keep us informed since this is pretty interesting topic.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 04:07 PM

Thank you for the link and for empathizing, I really appreciate the help.

2
32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on March 24, 2013
at 12:41 PM

I will also mention that after not eating animal products for so long your body may have stopped producing the enzymes necessary for digesting meat. If you decide to add meat back in, you should start slowly, and use enzyme supplementation (specifically those for digesting protein).

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 04:04 PM

Thank you for the insight here. This will most likely be the case.

2
33266cca338ab54cee9a2aa160f5bdb6

on March 24, 2013
at 04:54 AM

I have not had this dilemma to your degree but regarding ethical dilemmas, you must analyze your reasoning. You must decide, at it's core, why your ethics are the way they are. I am bothered, to a degree, about killing animals(life) to sustain my own. Even killing plants places some burden on my mind, at least when I'm doing it. Ultimately I decide to kill and consume animals because I am selfish and value my health above the health of other life forms. Do you truly believe that animal products will help you? Do you value your health above theirs? Is it about death or mistreatment? These are all good questions to ponder.

All that said, is there something unethical about animal milk? If you digest it well then that is always an option. Good luck and find peace in your mind.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 24, 2013
at 05:07 AM

Thank you for your insight. I appreciate the feedback.

1
089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:54 PM

I was a vegan, too, before starting paleo. the ONLY reason I decided to try the diet was because my mom gave me an ultimatum of being admitted to the hospital for my AI condition or eat animal products again.

I was such a sickly vegan and in pain all the time. I decided that my health was more important than animals' health. before my first meat meal, I started crying because I couldn't believe I was putting tuna in my mouth. I thanked the animal for giving me nutrients and continue to do this.

Oddly, I didn't have any bad side effects from adding animals back into my diet. The worst thing was the smell of my poops, but that went away after 3 weeks or so.

Anyway, I do wish there was a way that I could feel fine and be a vegan, but there isn't, and I want to feel good.

Aefbb8585ed1af53812030f558412237

(35)

on March 26, 2013
at 09:34 AM

Thanks for sharing your story. I am headed in that direction if I don't turn things around soon. I miss my vegan go-to comfort foods. What did you find that you liked that didn't involve meat? How is your AI doing now? After a week on the AIP diet I decided to eat fish. I could only manage one tiny little bite...

0
5861997b6ecba5420acd32f29d899e17

on March 14, 2014
at 05:32 PM

I've been a vegetarian for 26 years, since I was 6 years old. I recently started to try choking down as much fish as possible. It's a slow process. I use science to help me: fish don't have the brain capacity that mammals have - they only have a "reptilian brain", and are not capable of emotion. You will NEVER see me eat a mammal. That is unethical. But if you can reason with yourself, for your own health, that "fish don't have feelings", you should be ok.

0
7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

on April 01, 2013
at 10:27 AM

In my heart, I feel it is wrong to eat animals

But why?

4b62159e54b82301a461f82a8a944247

(0)

on March 15, 2014
at 11:06 AM

I read that a good quality protein powder can be a substitute to help vegan eaters , not sure if it is Paleo.

0
6967518836bd7e2331601a71e937ae0d

(170)

on April 01, 2013
at 05:39 AM

I wrote this in response to another question, it seems relevant, I hope it's ok to post again:

'Some people seem to thrive on veganism, I was not one of them. My reasoning was "I don't want to eat animals or use them as food in any way if I don't have to."

I was vegetarian for 2 years, then vegan for 1 year during which I on and off struggled with raw veganism. I had gone so far with it, but I was rapidly falling apart. I looked swollen, was tired, probably hypoglycemic, overweight and just all around awful everyday.

One day I tried to eat sweet fruit and I couldn't. My tongue/body just rejected it. Anything sweet was sickening (still is, to this day). Since high carb wasn't working, I went to high fat. I felt better in some ways with nuts/seeds, but they made me feel 'heavy' and broke out with acne. Being out of options, I ate boiled eggs, and to my surprise felt better than fine; I felt better than I had in a long time...

The truth was so obvious. I fell apart on veganism, nothing about it sustained me and eating animal products was saving me. I was no different than a lion eating an antelope or a bear eating a fish. It had nothing to do with morality or even choice. I had to eat animals to survive, there was nothing gluttonous or amoral about it. Kill or be killed. That's being in tuned with nature. It's not sweet rainbows and sunshine. It's life or death. I chose life and decided I would be a meat eater.

The next day I ate a chicken thigh for the first time in 3 years. I came back to life. It was almost a rush. Like waking up from a bad dream. After a month of meat I got my energy back, I looked younger, lost fat, gain muscle easily, skin has color, hair is thicker, shinier, and grows faster. I just get better everyday. I feel human again.

Overall, the vegetarian/vegan experience was a nightmare, but it lead me to Paleo so it was worth it. I'm just glad I got out in time.'

It's okay. You haven't failed the animals. You're a part of the cycle of life. You don't have to feel shame or guilt for being a human that wants to live a long, healthy life.

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