I found this pro-vegan type video pretty interesting.
Anyone familiar with my activity on this forum knows I'm a little obsessive about life extension and, while I respect those looking to shed a few pounds for better health, I couldn't care less about how fattening a given practice is...
Anyway, I've been limiting my protein intake (mainly by keeping meat down to a small serving or two per day) in the hopes of achieving greater longevity. Perhaps, though, Lucine in particular (found mainly in animal meats) is all I need to avoid?
Is veganism really the life-extending miracle diet its proponents would have you believe? A well-executed vegan/quasi vegan diet can easily be maintained for a lifetime. I know a couple older vegans who have been doing it for 30+ years and are in great health... Of course they eat a lot more nuts and legumes than I'd like.
No worries mate. I'm not about to jump on the vegan bandwagon. I just want to get some input on this...
asked byMethodician (624)
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on April 11, 2014
at 10:28 AM
Leucine is one of the essential amino acids. Human body cannot synthesize amino acid. It needs to be ingested. Thus it is very necessary for getting it from dietary sources. These amino acids help in burning Fats. Leucine helps in maintaining muscle mass and helps in reducing body fats during weight loss where it stimulates protein synthesis to build muscle.
Leucine stimulates protein synthesis to build muscle the Image below shows that:
Animal Protein I guess is very useful in repairing/maintaining of muscles. It is one of the best sources of Protein. Avoiding Lucine entirely is not a good idea though.
While dieting Lucine helps you lose weight and spare muscle. Diet experts recommend intake of 2.5 grams of leucine, which helps in stimulated protein synthesis.
Protein from animal, which naturally contains essential amino acid, is on of the best source of Leucine.
on April 10, 2014
at 09:33 AM
From what i've read protein restriction is definitely a good idea mainly due to higher protein signalling mTOR which then prevents autophagy, carbohydrate restriction is also a good idea due to low insulin levels associated with increased longevity.
Which leaves fat, non-starchy veggies, and wise protein intake to make up calories, to do that in a vegan way you'd just use lots of olive/avocado oil with non-starchy veggies and eats lots of nuts, maybe some beans/lentils, although beans/lentils are still too sugary for my level of sensitivity. From a paleo perspective this could make sense to do occasionally as in instances of unsuccessful hunts falling back on plants & fats for calories seems logical, although animal fats make more sense as pure plant fats would've been hard to obtain I think.
I think it would be best to eat animal sources of protein most of the time as they are best for repair/maintenance as they are complete protein sources, but to keep it below 25g per sitting which apparently is the mTOR signalling threshold. Rosedale advises snacking when hungry and of course in a high fat, low carb, moderate protein manner, it makes sense as if it's true that 10g protein takes 1 hour to digest then it would be good to space meals accordingly if you're looking to keep mTOR signalling low.
As Stephen pointed out it could be a good idea to also supplement your protein intake with bone broth as well due to glycine.
How does it look on a day to day basis? For myself I skip breakfast and when my stomach starts rumbling & is ready for food, not before, i'll have some broth with the fat left on top and 1-3 egg yolks stirred into it. Then a few hours later when I feel a slight energy dip or hungry again some more broth with some liver pate on the side, then for dinner some meat with some veggies cooked in fat. I find that a relatively small amount of meat, cut up into small pieces, with lots of fat, salt, pepper, some veggies, is very satisfying.
on April 10, 2014
at 04:43 AM
Comment won't post...
1) I'd rather be alive and sick than dead... Hmmmm, never been really sick, I'd bet.
2) the goal is to extend not just life span but HEALTH SPAN I want to figure out how to avoid the diseases of age. <<<< then build some muscle! Strong people are more useful, better looking and harder to kill. Sisson (I think?)
2a) Some really old people (90's or even 100's) are still happy, and even still WORKING <<<< yeah, but the number is statistically insignificant
Stop obsessing over life span or health span....
Do something meaningful & useful, have some fun, be of service! Life extension for no other purpose than life extension?
Why the obsession with life span? You sound like my 85 year old MIL. She hasn't done a lick of useful work in nearly 40 years. Hopefully she'll outlive me so I don't have to pay for her board & care facility. She's obsessed with her physical health but has the mental capacity of slow 6 year old but it was never much better.
on April 10, 2014
at 12:00 AM
Yes, they're absolutely right, we're not evolved to eat meat at all and it will kill us, because we evolved as hominids in the last 2MY and we ate only plants, that's why you see pictures of broccoli in paleolithic cave paintings, and not animals being hunted... oh wait!
on April 09, 2014
at 09:08 PM
Well, you are definitely on to something there. With regards to leucine, it definitely does increase mTOR signaling so you are correct that it could promote aging.
Multiple amino acids (leucine included), as well as insulin and insulin like growth factors also activate mTOR, so reducing these could potentially lead to a longer lifespan. Don't forget that leucine is an essential amino acid, if you stop eating it altogether, your health will deteriorate, thus antithesizing the purpose of living longer.
on April 09, 2014
at 09:02 PM
Glycine supplemented rats live just as long protein restricted rats. I can't find the study I'm thinking of right now, but this one should help support my claim: http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/25/1_MeetingAbstracts/528.2 .
on April 09, 2014
at 08:44 PM
Lol, I did a double take on the title + submitter.
I do a little bit of a cringe every time I see the nutritionfacts.org site and hear that pretentious vegan guy trying to use scientific articles, where if you do the math, it obviously doesn't add up. (The last one I saw that he did tried to demonstrate heart disease from added fats, using articles that actually stated the opposite.)
Leucine, I remember as one of the ketogenic proteins and the type of BCAA that would be available for supplementing pre-workout to avoid muscle loss.
90g of protein from soy is 7.6g leucine. 90g beef protein is 7.4g. Macadamia nuts are 6.9g. Whole grains / oats are around 6.8g. Elk meat is around 6.7g. Chicken breast is 6.6g. I suppose there's less of it in plants because there's less protein in plants. Rather than trying to blame meats for health issues, I would look at them as being nutrient-dense (leucine is an essential nutrient required for optimal health), with no more leucine than your average vegan meal of equal protein.
If you ate 2400 calories worth of almonds for your protein (or 1200 calories of lentils), you could shave a tenth of a gram to a quarter gram of leucine amino acids off your day. (a little less than a calorie's worth.) I think you might as well just eat less protein, where meats would be your best option for that, because you can get that same protein from chicken at 600 calories with plenty of room to spare for foods that are more nutritious than a lb of nuts and beans.