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I eat vegan. How can I adapt this lifestyle to my needs?

Commented on April 03, 2014
Created March 30, 2014 at 6:27 PM

I eat vegan. How can I adapt this lifestyle to my needs?

2a4731dad21e1774eaa12b878bb94463

(0)

on April 03, 2014
at 10:46 PM

Thank you. I kind of had a feeling it might be like that, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 31, 2014
at 12:37 PM

I've also heard that. Diet without EPA/DHA means our bodies take up the slack. Also known that beta carotene to retinol conversion depends on how much retinol we consume and our state of vitamin A repleteness.

Ede167512744dbbeb0869761759474e7

on March 31, 2014
at 03:09 AM

Preach!

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 31, 2014
at 02:40 AM

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/1/183.full.pdf+html

It is conceivable that we are poor DHA synthesizers.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 31, 2014
at 02:09 AM

I'm not anti-vegetarian. I'm just saying that the vegan diet is incomplete and your suggestions are suboptimal for human health on the scale of a lifetime.

I consider myself to be a vegetarian with meat on top. (My diet looks much closer to that than to a "vegan" diet.)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 31, 2014
at 02:00 AM

So is the recommendation there to not eat any EPA or DHA. Then eat chemically extracted DHA from a seaweed, then hope your body can handle a lifetime of that conversion into EPA?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:59 AM

in mouse models. In actual humans there has not even been a correlatory link.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:57 AM

Just FIY -- I'm not a vegan (nor am I a woman). I am, however, shocked at the anti-vegetarian slant on this sight. The Paleo diet is, at it's core, a plant-based diet. Meat provides a very efficient source of several nutrients -- but there are other options.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:54 AM

Sufficient until you start to run the mental decline statistics up in older age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docosahexaenoic_acid#Alzheimer.27s_disease_and_decline_of_mental_health

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:54 AM

Best of luck!

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:53 AM

Not sure why you deleted your question after I answered it, but here's the answer for others who may be looking: The purpose of this double-blind study was to investigate the influence of dietary supplementation with an algae source of docosahexaenoic acid, devoid of any eicosapentaenoic acid... EPA levels increased in serum phospholipid by 117%. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9001371

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:52 AM

How many grams of DHA / EPA do you get on a daily basis from algae and seaweed? Which ones do you eat to get that? I eat seaweed and algae daily, but, it's paper thin and near weightless, and not a great source of omegas.

I haven't seen cholesterol supplements. It sounds like you don't do any vitamin A as a non-lactating woman.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:51 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9001371 -- The purpose of this double-blind study was to investigate the influence of dietary supplementation with an algae source of docosahexaenoic acid, devoid of any eicosapentaenoic acid... EPA levels increased in serum phospholipid by 117%

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:48 AM

I was listening to a podcast with a professor of nutrition who said research is starting to suggest that conversion of ALA is more efficient in vegetarians than it is in non-vegetarians. That would suggest that the body can up-regulate as needed.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:48 AM

Where do you get EPA in algae? Or cholesterol in algae? Or vitamin A in algae?

Those supplements are based on the research from slaughtered animals.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:45 AM

Look closer to the city. even in farming community the meat consumption is well below what most people call paleo. But in and around the cities are where the real pockets of poverty exist. Sure they might get a scrap from time-to-time -- but in general they subsist off of rice and beans.

"veganism" as a choice is a choice of privileged. But meat is not cheap -- it certainly cannot compare to the cost/calorie of grains and beans.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:42 AM

Olive and coconut are fruit, but I would not say that their isolated oils are fruits.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:42 AM

Endogenous ALA conversion. Inefficient, but sufficient for most.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:41 AM

why don't legumes and soybeans count? properly prepared they fit almost any definition of paleo other than dogmatic.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:38 AM

You mean where does a vegan get DHA/EPA? algea, seaweed, ALA, LNA, supplementation. If I were a lactating woman, I might consider supplementing -- at a minimum I would get a blood level test.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:38 AM

pershia7 was asking about PALEO sources. legumes/soybeans don't qualify. olive/coconut is fruit obviously.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:37 AM

this has gone way off topic however - but very nice chatting!!!

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:36 AM

examples? not being snarky, I really want to know this because in most rural farms where those in poverty would be subsistence farming, animals are also raised for food. Over and over, sources of animal proteins are favored even in extreme poverty. Example - if a cow were slaughtered in one of the "poverty vegetarian" villages you speak of, would the population of the village make use of it or let it rot, cultural / religious issues aside?

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:31 AM

Sorry I don't mean to sound all 'righteous world traveler' - my stepfather was Guarani, so I have been all over SA. I certainly don't mean to imply that all the culinary knowledge of all indigenous cultures are in my brain, but I do know a few things...

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:30 AM

The populations I speak of eat no meat or animal products because they cannot afford to. Yes, others in those countries eat meat -- those are considered the privileged. Those below the poverty line cannot afford meat and tend to live off of rice, beans, and vegetables they can grow in their own gardens. I'd imagine that they would be more "vegan" that most westerners could ever hope to be.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:27 AM

Vegetarian populations of poverty exist, of course - but I feel I can safely say that hey all use animal products when not religiously / culturally prohibited to do so. Veganism is an extreme choice of privilege. I know that sounds pejorative, but it is a fact, not a judgement.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:27 AM

Where do you get your DHA / EPA? Or, any cholesterol and vitamin a (retinol) in your diet? Or any CoQ10 in your diet?

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:26 AM

I am referring to VEGANISM, which is very different from VEGETARIANISM. The populations of poverty you speak of live primarily off of vegetable, grain, AND meat - offal, broths, beaks, feet - nothing is discarded. In India, where cultural / religious practice prohibits the eating of cow, other animals are eaten, and animal products are used (milk for lassi, butter for ghee). South Americans are predominately eaters of meat - at least in the countries I've been to - Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile - and prefer it to other food sources even when in cases of extreme poverty.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:21 AM

That's about 85% of my diet. Vegans also have sprouted legumes, soy beans, olive and coconut oil, nutritional yeast -- you can get basically everything except B12 and creatine.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:12 AM

like teh economically privileged classes in China, South America, and India who cannot afford even scraps of meat. Places where 20-35% of the population are "vegetarians" and 60-70% of those below the poverty line are "vegetarians".

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 12:51 AM

I just re-read my comment and I agree with you, it DID sound rant-y. But I really believe what I said - and it's okay if others don't. I don't think it is unresponsive, because the incompatible ideologies are at such a conflict. If it was about being a vegetarian, my answer would be different. But veganism is so restrictive. You know - that might be where you sense venom from me. I inherently have a problem with unyielding food restriction. So yes, you have a point. I apologize for sounding all bent, but I do stand by my comment. Thanks.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 12:44 AM

Yes, it is a modern diet for these over-privileged times we live in. I prefer an ancestral diet.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 12:43 AM

I don't hate vegans - people should be able to eat what they want. But the facts are that veganism is built on economic privilege, and that the primal / paleo lifestyle is at its core inconsistent with the values of a vegan. I REALLY HATE to be all "re-enanctment" paleo, but the fact is that if someone adhered to vegan principles in most primitive societies that weren't closely situated along the equator, they would not only not thrive, they would probably not survive. No animal products (not even honey), no leather products - veganism goes beyond food.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 30, 2014
at 08:21 PM

Vegetarianism pushes the omnivore limits. Vegan goes beyond. It's a completely modern diet, post Neolithic, with no connection to historic paleo diet.

Medium avatar

(238)

on March 30, 2014
at 07:57 PM

Showing some Vegan hate are we? Totally unresponsive to the question, just a soapbox rant.

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10 Answers

0
Medium avatar

on April 03, 2014
at 09:12 PM

Unfortunately The Paleo or Caveman Diet does not support the Vegan lifestyle. I would suggest you prepare all your legumes and grains the right way and really consider a good supplement routine. I feel it would be challenging. I wish you nothing but success. @Pershia7

2a4731dad21e1774eaa12b878bb94463

(0)

on April 03, 2014
at 10:46 PM

Thank you. I kind of had a feeling it might be like that, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

0
2a4731dad21e1774eaa12b878bb94463

on March 31, 2014
at 02:57 AM

this is all quite interesting and if you are following the conversation -- it can be quite confusing at times. There is scientific proof I both sides of the coin that one is better than the other. There is so much information out that a person can get very frustrated and overloaded that they don't know which way to turn or what to believe.

I chose to eat vegan because of what I learned and how it made me feel. I had less gas, bloating, allergies, lost weight and overall felt better. When I get the urge to eat meat ( and it is not often) I try to stay with bison. I know that my body will have problems digesting it and 95% of the time it does. I am not against anyone eating meat. You have to choose to do what is right for you.

Thank you for all of your comments and your time.

0
2a4731dad21e1774eaa12b878bb94463

on March 31, 2014
at 01:25 AM

Thank you for all of your comments -- positive & negative. I figured it might be a hard thing to do that is why I asked the people who have been practicing this for a while.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:54 AM

Best of luck!

0
7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

(300)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:19 AM

The answer is, prepare your legumes/grains/dairy properly and supplement wisely.

Sadly I don't think paleo and vegan are compatible, you can't make veganism more paleo, you just have to optimize your veganism.

E.G. Cut out gluten/limit phytic acid/oxalic acid, increase protein and fat from plant sources(coconut,avocado,ect) and supplement what you may not get enough of in the best forms of that substance. (d3 v d2, chelated vs not, retinol vs beta carotene, ect)

0
089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on March 31, 2014
at 12:23 AM

if you are vegan, you are left with fruit, veggies, nuts and seeds. good luck with that.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 31, 2014
at 01:21 AM

That's about 85% of my diet. Vegans also have sprouted legumes, soy beans, olive and coconut oil, nutritional yeast -- you can get basically everything except B12 and creatine.

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 30, 2014
at 08:35 PM

Denise Minger has some recommendations: http://rawfoodsos.com/for-vegans/

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 30, 2014
at 08:26 PM

You can't adapt the diet, because it depends on eating meat.

But you can get most of the benefit by changing your lifestyle. Eat locally. Avoid mechanized transportation. Walk everywhere. Prepare and store your own food. Even if you can't hunt, gather for all you're worth.

0
Medium avatar

(238)

on March 30, 2014
at 08:00 PM

Having done Vegan in the past, I would now find it hard to do so within a Paleo framework. You could do it but I think your food choices would be so limited that it might not be very enjoyable. Even though it wasn't really good for me I did enjoy all the tofu dishes and prepacked soy junk.

Best thing I did initially was go Vegan and then the next better thing was start eating meat again. However I did go through a few years in between of meat, carbs and beer which was a disaster.

0
618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on March 30, 2014
at 07:13 PM

A vegan lifestyle is not a paleo/primal lifestyle. Veganism is a bourgeois construct created out of privilege. It is completely perverse to eschew better forms of protein in order to favor harder to digest foods that have to be eaten in certain combinations so as to give you the complete protein you would get if you would just crack open an egg.

Have you ever traveled to parts of the world where people are hungry? Have you ever eaten at the home of someone who has used up a month's wages to treat you, a guest, to a feast which contains a meats and foods that you won't eat for "moral. ethical reasons"? Would you pass on that food? How moral is that kind of a person? Being taken out of your cocoon of first world privilege might give you a different perspective on your choice.

Besides, a plant-based diet is where food is grown by Big Ag is just as damaging to the planet and to wild habitats and animals as are feedlots. Most P/P eaters eat locally sourced pastured meats - we eat mindfully, we eat responsibly.

I love my pets. I see no problem in loving animals and being able to thankfully consume them. It is a simple mind that sees the world in blacks and whites, with no shades of gray, no nuances - no problems that allow them to have compassion. Veganism allows those who practice it the heavy-hand of the self-righteous, whereas eating omnivorously asks all of us to think about what we are eating, be present in the act of choosing our food, and be thankful for everything that food gives us.

You might be able to trick yourself into thinking that you can do Paleo as a vegan - but it won't be anything close, considering all the supplementation you will have to do. Paleo / Primal is all about eating nutrient dense foods that give you what you need - not eating bits of veg and soy and then eating handfuls of pills and drinking protein shakes to fill in the gaps.

When you are ready to take your place in the food chain, like a human being alive on this planet should, then this will be a wonderful guide for you. Until then, you'll only be a bystander, a wannabe.

Good luck.

Ede167512744dbbeb0869761759474e7

on March 31, 2014
at 03:09 AM

Preach!

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 30, 2014
at 08:21 PM

Vegetarianism pushes the omnivore limits. Vegan goes beyond. It's a completely modern diet, post Neolithic, with no connection to historic paleo diet.

Medium avatar

(238)

on March 30, 2014
at 07:57 PM

Showing some Vegan hate are we? Totally unresponsive to the question, just a soapbox rant.

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 30, 2014
at 06:35 PM

Don't eat grains. Properly prepare legumes. Supplement especially with B12, Creatine, D3, BCAAs, Zinc, and CoQ10

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