3

votes

Vaccines - good/bad/ugly?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 18, 2012 at 3:53 AM

I have a real issue with the overvaccination of people and especially babies, but I may be forced to have 'up to date' immunizations for a job. That doesn't even seem legal to me, to force a vaccination that has potential side effects, but I think it is.

I'm not sure yet exactly which ones I'll need, but I would love any relevant info on them. Side effects, if there are any choices (I believe you can request a mercury-free flu shot), etc

Please don't say get a different job, that is something I've considered but that discussion is beyond the scope of this website ;)

thanks

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

thanks, yeah it'd be for working in a hospital

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on June 17, 2013
at 04:21 PM

**Hug**. Thank you for this kick-ass answer.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on June 17, 2013
at 04:21 PM

**Hug** Than you for this kick-ass answer.

Aa69579f867333b08158c70e25f7daf1

(1826)

on May 18, 2012
at 08:08 PM

Amen, trjones!!!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 21, 2012
at 05:26 PM

As for Polio, I think the vaccine is no longer necessary in the states, and that it should be encouraged if you plan to travel oversees, depending on where you are going. Why give every single US born baby a vaccine for which there is no known person with the disease? The vaccine worked! Now it's time to retire it until it becomes necessary at a future date, if ever.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 21, 2012
at 05:24 PM

Yes I understand these one off scenarios Jenny. Two of my brothers had whooping cough when I was 17 years old. I lived with them at the time. My older brother was nearly bedridden for 2 months. He was miserable. I never got it, but built up an immunity to it. (I put out a thread a while back that shows I tested with full immunity to pertussis). I like your idea of adults getting the shots more than babies, but then again, Chris Kresser believes that he can trace his and his wife's autoimmune issues directly back to vaccines they received as adults.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 21, 2012
at 01:56 AM

Even for older kids- the reason that I get all post-y up in here is not just b/c I did microbiology for a while, but because I was infected with whooping cough while recovering from heart surgery, and it was so miserable. In the hospital for a long time with broken ribs. I didn't know I was going to end up getting heart surgery or be immunosuppressed- but it happened, and I needed that herd immunity, but it failed me. While I was in hospital, a 4 month old was in there, breast fed since birth perfectly healthy, but got infected with whooping cough. You just never know.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 21, 2012
at 01:54 AM

In a perfect world we wouldn't have to vaccinate babies in their first year of life, and all adults would be fully vaccinated, in order to protect everyone as effectively as possible (would also decrease the necessity for booster shots). Any adult or older child that isn't vaccinating is preventing that from being possible (look at the whooping cough outbreaks and measles- you have maintain work to maintain herd immunity). And polio is eradicated b/c of vaccination- there really is no need (like small pox) for the next generation to get it, though it is a very safe vaccine in general.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 20, 2012
at 09:34 PM

not everyone has the same scenario. a baby who is formula fed and in day care has significantly higher risk of becoming sick from any of the viruses that childhood vaccines are intended to protect against. Also, there has only been 1 reported case of Polio in the US in the past 13 years. The disease is all but eradited domestically. http://www.post-polio.org/ir-usa.html. and before that, about 90% of the cases reported in the 80s and 90s were caused by a outbreak from a vaccine. See "Is polio still a disease seen in the United States?" http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 20, 2012
at 04:50 PM

Jeff- I personally don't buy the concept of "herd immunity". I'm not the only one: http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/dr-russel-blaylock-the-myth-of-herd-immunity/ That said, my husband was required to have a flu shot to immigrate to the US (he's English.) He took a bunch of Vitamin D & got the shot. No problem.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 20, 2012
at 04:49 PM

Jeff- I personally don't buy the concept of "herd immunity". I'm not the only one.vaccineliberationarmy.com/… That said, my husband was required to have a flu shot to immigrate to the US (he's English.) He took a bunch of Vitamin D & got the shot. No problem.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 20, 2012
at 04:48 PM

Jeff- I personally don't buy the concept of "herd immunity". I'm not the only one.http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/dr-russel-blaylock-the-myth-of-herd-immunity/ That said, my husband was required to have a flue shot to immigrate to the US (he's English.) He took a bunch of Vitamin D & got the shot. No problem.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on April 20, 2012
at 04:18 PM

Hard to be against vaccines after seeing kids with whooping cough, or listening to grandparents talk about the fear of polio everywhere before the vaccine.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 20, 2012
at 03:12 PM

I was genuinely curious as to how this would work, which is why I asked for a source- sorry if you took that as an offensive, aggressive request. I've never heard of this, and I spent some time in microbiology, so I was interested. Thanks for bringing this to my attention though, it's something I can ask a few profs about to learn more.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on April 20, 2012
at 02:44 PM

Most of the time, asking for a source here is simply a cheap attempt to discredit. Chantix blocks the receptor sites where nicotine binds. They want to make something that does the same thing, but call it a vaccine. Nicotine isn't an organism, so it can't be a vaccine, but they could trick the immune system into producing molecules that would block the receptor sites. If they can call it a vaccine, their legal liability is greatly reduced, but there is no organism targeted here (except maybe humans).

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 20, 2012
at 01:30 AM

How would the creation of antibodies block neurons? Asking for a source was a chance for you to back up your general statement with something.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 20, 2012
at 01:26 AM

I think context is important- an infants vaccination schedule is way different than a grown adult working in an environment with constant exposure to people with impaired immune system.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on April 20, 2012
at 12:30 AM

I was also surprised by so many 'for' votes

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on April 19, 2012
at 09:37 PM

Even if they manage to create antibodies, it is still a lie, and still reclassification. The anti-addiction stuff is really worrying because of how suicidal Chantix makes people. Blocking neurons is a bad idea. I know, I took Chantix to quit smoking. If they make this permanent, a lot of people will die. On these boards, asking for a source is the condescending thing to do.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 19, 2012
at 03:24 PM

After that little condescending attitude, I was actually hoping for a study. Thanks though, I will look into this "google" you speak of. The only real applicable thing on pubmed I found was a suggestion for future research, not anything on the mechanism or development process: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22356293 Not exactly a finding that's being marketed- they can't "reclassify drugs" as vaccines, because vaccines work entirely differently than drugs. They are trying to find an alternative vaccination for an anti-addiction drug.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on April 19, 2012
at 03:05 PM

I put a link in body of my response. Ya know, you could have googled that one. Googling 'addiction vaccine' yields quite a few results. It should be a hard stunt to pull off, because people should just straight up say that is not a vaccine, but apparently we are expected to believe whatever the 'scientist' says.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 10:29 PM

If you aren't healthy just in general, it majorly decreases the chances of the vaccine being successful anyways! Wait to you feel better, avoid the emergency room/doctors office like the plague (literally), and encourage healthy family members to vaccinate, if at all possible, would be the best bet. This is what my parents did when I was too sick to be vaccinated, the only time it didn't work was when I had to stay in the hospital.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on April 18, 2012
at 10:21 PM

Jenny -good to know. My body is so wrecked right now in the health dept that I think adding anything foreign would be the worst idea ever.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 09:44 PM

But do you know if you passed on any viruses when you were incubating those illnesses (particularly to the immunosuppressed)? Nope, and you never will. The most important part of vaccination is the impact on the community, not the individual.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 09:42 PM

"products intended to end addiction, being reclassified as vaccines" -Source? I've never heard of that, and it sounds like a pretty hard stunt to pull off.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 18, 2012
at 08:35 PM

I know Jeff, I kinda said that in jest. I saw a really cool article about 10 years ago talking about populations that ate heavily mercury contaminated fish as their primary foodstuff (it was an island in Europe), shoot I can't remember where I saw it, but anywho, the people who ate fish with mercury were fine, the people who ate grain contaminated with mercury (I believe that was in Iraq) had serious neurological issues from it. New idea....a dose of selenium with every vaccination?

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on April 18, 2012
at 08:01 PM

If vaccines are so worthless, where are all the people dieing or disfigured from Smallpox every year? Oh yeah, there are none.

A1a7413b99e03bc77f02d95c4170ea43

(2393)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:58 PM

And yet my body had enough exposure to everything else to build up immunity to them? I agree to some extent with your point, but the point of this post was that I didn't even NEED the other vaccines.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:54 PM

Re. Formaldehyde. If you like drinking diet sodas with Aspartame, your body is breaking it down into substantially more Formaldehyde than what you get from an immunization shot...

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:44 PM

Also, the reason why you and your family is safe? Herd immunity. A collective "your welcome" from everyone else who got their vaccinations.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:44 PM

Even in a vaccinated society you can get those diseases- b/c of unvaccinated kids in my community I got whooping cough after a heart surgery (in hospital, immune system down, staying in pediatrics). If you ever wanted to know the most unpleasant way to recover from a heart surgery, I would probably say it would be "get whooping cough and break a couple of ribs". Herd immunity is a delicate thing that needs to be maintained!

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:42 PM

"I believe if you eat well and get exercise and don't put crap in your body"...*AND you live in a society that vaccinates a majority of individuals*..."vaccines aren't necessary". The main reason you never had problem with measles, mumps, or rubella is because you had never been exposed to it: in an unvaccinated population, those three run rampant. Most people can be perfectly safe if there is adequate herd immunity around them. Which is why it's important to get vaccinated if you can!

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:39 PM

You can ask for egg-free vaccines I know for sure, that's what my boyfriend got because he is allergic.

4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on April 18, 2012
at 06:40 PM

God, this sort of ignorance pisses me off. If it wasn't for vaccines, you or one of your family members probably would have gotten either measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, polio or another horrible, potentially life-altering or ending diseases regardless of how strong you think your immune system is. Let me ask you, do you think the prevalence of those diseases I just mentioned has dropped to almost nothing because everyone's immune system got so much better over the last 50 years, or do you think it maybe had something to do with vaccines?

8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on April 18, 2012
at 06:33 PM

You risk the very lives of others if you don't vaccinate. Why would you want to work in the healthcare field if you are willing to risk lives because you've read a faulty study or heard unproven conspiracy theories? The eradication of diseases like measles and polio is proof positive how important immunizations are.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Yeah, the immune system is fantastic, which is why we vaccinate. To optimize our very best natural defense system, and to protect those who don't have optimal immune systems.

8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on April 18, 2012
at 06:23 PM

Tell that to all those people who died/were crippled with polio.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 04:47 PM

"It should be your choice"- the reason places like hospitals and vetrinary clinics take this out of your hands because choosing not to vaccinate does not only affect you, it has the power to affect everyone around you (especially elderly, pregnant, and infants due to undeveloped/compromised immune systems). They choose on behalf of the vulnerable members of society to enforce it, so it does make sense that they can mandate it (from a legal point of view).

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on April 18, 2012
at 02:39 PM

The selenium in fish binds the mercury, I think the fish-mercury thing has been blown out of proportion

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 18, 2012
at 01:41 PM

Grok would have killed for vaccinations, after all, he died of easily preventable diseases. That and getting gored by buffalo.

091f5e18a471bcc52544c537d5103fea

on April 18, 2012
at 01:23 PM

Vaccinations are good! I'd really consider adding the Whooping Cough booster to your regimen. You can carry it and not even know. And if you happen to come into contact with a young infant, you could pass it on. Whooping cough is very often fatal to children that young. You wouldn't want that on your conscience!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:58 PM

*facepalm* Vaccinate! Modern medicine is a good thing...

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:49 PM

And b/c the babies with compromised health are put at risk by even small procedures like vaccination, it is important for everyone else to vaccinate to create a herd immunity to protect them!

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:45 PM

Also, I like to think of vaccines as the ultimate in preventative medicine. They, single handedly, have probably prevented more deaths than any other treatment. Best bit of western medicine every created.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:40 PM

You can sometimes opt out (unlikely in a hospital or veterinary setting), but honestly, if you are in either a hospital/vet you are going to be exposed to the worst pathogens in your community in a single building. It would be risky to you, and everyone you came in contact with, if you chose not to vaccinate for those environments.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:37 PM

Hospitals are strict, for good reasons, because when you're working there you are exposed to the worst of everything in a community, distilled down to a single building. I would do it.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:32 PM

Yeah, anything that is not multi-dose will be mercury free. And even with mercury, you get more mercury from eating a can of tuna because vaccines use a much less toxic form.

Fd1c5e35538fbe2ea5eccb8acd7ae546

(496)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:26 PM

Get titers done,chances are you will have some acquired immunity from being sick as a child as we were not heavily vaccinated back in the day.That might save you a shot or two.

1d0497f8781845ab371b479455bfee8e

(11157)

on April 18, 2012
at 10:56 AM

You can still be a carrier even if you don't feel ill. Many people are alive today due to the herd immunity made possible by mass vaccination.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on April 18, 2012
at 04:25 AM

not sure about which ones yet, it'd be to work in a hospital

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15 Answers

16
518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:36 PM

Here is my rant from a past post, addressing some of the "toxins": 5

Mercury: It is a large misconception that vaccines contain elemental mercury. They in fact contain thimericol, which is ethyl mercury. This has a much lower toxicity than the mercury that we all consume with gusto, which is methyl mercury found at (mostly) low levels in fish and shellfish species. So, stating thimericol causes mercury poisoning is a little like cutting salt out of your diet for reasons that many soldiers died in WW1 from chlorine gas. Sure, there is a level that can result in toxicity, but it is very difficult to reach it. By eating somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/2 a filet of your average grocery store fish, you have already blown the amount of "mercury" you'd receive in a vaccine out of the water. And thimericol is not thrown into vaccines for fun- it acts as an antiseptic as a reaction to an absolutely unfortunate incident of bacterial contamination of vaccines in the past. This actually increases the safeness of the vaccine because of less specific requirements for storage requirements. Also, thimericol is only in multi-dose vaccines.

Aluminum: If you live in the states or Canada, don't even bother researching the possible effects of small amounts of aluminum, because aluminum is not used as an adjuvant here. It is only widely used as an adjuvant in Europe still.

Gelatin: Not sure why this is listed as a "toxin", there is a reason we all make bone broth and it isn't because we have things for skeletons.

Formaldehyde: As a regular part of our metabolism, we produce up to an ounce and a half of formaldehyde per day. Sure, that is not very much, but there is also not very much formaldehyde in the vaccine either. It's not like they are throwing you in a bath of the stuff- as far as your body is concerned, this amount of formaldehyde is seen like any other by product of metabolism, and treated as such.

Treating everyone with vaccines, including flu vaccines, decreases hospitalization, trips to the doctor, death, heart attacks, and antibiotic use (which makes the point that vaccines contain tiny amounts of antibiotics obsolete, because it will result in a much more significant decrease overall).

Why don't flu vaccines work as well as we'd like? First of all, they are targeted, which is a poor strategy. The elderly, sick, and immunosuppressed (pregnant, HIV/AIDS etc) are the ones who are told to get the vaccine, but they are actually the ones least likely to have a positive results. If your immune system is already impaired, you are less likely to be able to produce the proper antibodies require to fight off the disease. A much more effective way of preventing illness in these populations is to instead avoid having the virus presented to them in the first place, hence the concept of herd immunity. That is why health care workers are irresponsible if they choose not to vaccinate against the flu- they are unintentionally exposing the vulnerable to a virus that, while it may not effect them, may cause a host of problems in the vulnerable one. Think of when an elderly person breaks their hip- now, breaking a hip doesn't inherently cause death, but we do know that there is an enormous jump in deaths the year following a hip fracture. While the hip fracture didn't directly cause the death, it's the vulnerability to secondary consequences that is the big problem, and the same reason can be applied to vaccines. Flus cause about 30,000 direct/indirect deaths per year in the USA alone, an astonishing number, and one that may be helped by not targeting just the vulnerable ones. For example, populations in which children who get the conjugated pneumococcal vaccination show a decreased mortality rate in the elderly in the same population. In fact, if only 20-25% of children get vaccinated, there is an 8-18% decrease in adults over 35 years, which is an enormous impact to population that was never inoculated.

Another problem with flu vaccines is people often use the n=1 "I got the vaccine but still got the flu". The fact is, yes, you can still get the flu after vaccination! But you can also get flu-like illnesses, often attributed to the flu when it isn't the same thing at all from an immunological perspective. Flu vaccinations can attenuate flus, meaning that if you get the flu your response will be better so it will decrease in duration (which would be protecting you from those secondary problems that are the real killers) and decrease the likelihood of getting passed on (thereby contributing to letting the more vulnerable live on). While it may not help you personally in every possible way you were hoping, it is the population that is greater impacted. Think, if the flu vaccine worked for just 1% of the time, you could still decrease those annual deaths by 1,800, which is pretty admirable. But, if the whole population got vaccinated, the efficacy is about 50-80% for individuals, so imagine what a massive impact that would have on longevity and vulnerable populations.

We've already applied critical eyes to nutrition, and know that it is just as important to apply critical eyes to all areas of our lives. This is one area where it has to be said that vaccines are effective on a population level, making them absolutely worth while. In fact, to not get the vaccinations actually poses dangers to other around you, making the incentive not only "I won't get sick", but altruistic as well.

Anyways, that was my big rant, sorry if you've heard all this stuff before. I need to get back to physics now (I thought I switched my major from microbiology...).

For more Paleo Diet hacks: I'm going to Haiti...the vaccine shots are being pushed on me...what do I do? - PaleoHacks.com http://paleohacks.com/questions/94899/im-going-to-haiti-the-vaccine-shots-are-being-pushed-on-me-what-do-i-do#ixzz1sOYzAvhF

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:45 PM

Also, I like to think of vaccines as the ultimate in preventative medicine. They, single handedly, have probably prevented more deaths than any other treatment. Best bit of western medicine every created.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:54 PM

Re. Formaldehyde. If you like drinking diet sodas with Aspartame, your body is breaking it down into substantially more Formaldehyde than what you get from an immunization shot...

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on June 17, 2013
at 04:21 PM

**Hug**. Thank you for this kick-ass answer.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on June 17, 2013
at 04:21 PM

**Hug** Than you for this kick-ass answer.

10
5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on April 18, 2012
at 05:39 AM

Some professions you really don't have a choice in the matter, especially healthcare. Just because YOU feel fine doesn't mean you aren't killing people by being a carrier. Just ask Typhoid Mary.

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1900s/a/typhoidmary.htm

9
9140810eb28b318fb081c1f98c0989c8

(459)

on April 18, 2012
at 04:07 AM

There are situations in which it makes perfect sense to require the vaccinations. I, for instance, work for a hospital system. I have to be vaccinated in general, and have to get a flu shot every year, or there are parts of the hospital I just cannot enter at peak flu season.

That aside, yes, you can ask for mercury free vaccinations. They are more expensive, and you will probably have to make an appointment to get them, so be sure to let the doctor's office know ahead of time. My sister regularly asks for them. Please do note that many vaccines are already mercury free, so do your research on the composition on which ones you require before contacting your doctor.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

thanks, yeah it'd be for working in a hospital

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:32 PM

Yeah, anything that is not multi-dose will be mercury free. And even with mercury, you get more mercury from eating a can of tuna because vaccines use a much less toxic form.

6
A1a7413b99e03bc77f02d95c4170ea43

on April 18, 2012
at 06:44 PM

My parents (a chiropractor and a lamaze instructor) were firmly against vaccines for my brother and I when we were young. We ate a healthy (at least to us; meat, veggie and starch at every meal) and got plenty of exercise. We were very rarely sick. I moved to the US a few years back (I'm from Toronto, Canada originally), and am going through some immigration procedures currently, and one of the things I had to do was get a full medical checkup. I told them I had never had a vaccine. They gave me a list of about 15 different things that I'd have to be vaccinated against considering that I had never had them before. BUT, they said, they would test me to see if my body had developed any natural immunities to these things.
Turns out that I HAD developed natural immunities to everything except one: MMR (Measels, Mumps and rubella). So I believe that if you eat well and get exercise and don't put crap in your body regularly, vaccines aren't necessary.

THAT BEING SAID,

I agree with others here, that if your job requires it, such as a hospital, then it's important that you do it, because you'll be exposed to things in a much different way than the rest of us. I would say the same thing about travelling. They're probably necessary.

My dad was a very staunch opponent of vaccines and spent a lot of time researching studies and such showing the ineffectiveness of them. And I'm not saying that NO ONE should have them, but I do believe that our bodies have tremendous capabilities to protect us naturally, and we should stick to that template as much as we can.

That's my two cents, anyway. ;)

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:42 PM

"I believe if you eat well and get exercise and don't put crap in your body"...*AND you live in a society that vaccinates a majority of individuals*..."vaccines aren't necessary". The main reason you never had problem with measles, mumps, or rubella is because you had never been exposed to it: in an unvaccinated population, those three run rampant. Most people can be perfectly safe if there is adequate herd immunity around them. Which is why it's important to get vaccinated if you can!

A1a7413b99e03bc77f02d95c4170ea43

(2393)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:58 PM

And yet my body had enough exposure to everything else to build up immunity to them? I agree to some extent with your point, but the point of this post was that I didn't even NEED the other vaccines.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 09:44 PM

But do you know if you passed on any viruses when you were incubating those illnesses (particularly to the immunosuppressed)? Nope, and you never will. The most important part of vaccination is the impact on the community, not the individual.

6
4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on April 18, 2012
at 01:40 PM

Can you cite any evidence that "overvaccination" is a problem? Vaccine safety has been a hotbutton topic for the last several decades and has been widely studied. The evidence is in and it's overwhelmingly in favor of vaccines being ONE OF THE GREATEST SCIENTIFIC ADVANCES OF ALL TIME. I'm sorry if you don't want to hear this, but if you don't accept that, then maybe you SHOULDN'T be working in health care.

Aa69579f867333b08158c70e25f7daf1

(1826)

on May 18, 2012
at 08:08 PM

Amen, trjones!!!

6
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 18, 2012
at 08:09 AM

As a healthy, paleo eating adult, I'd say you have pretty much nothing to fear from vaccines. It is babies with compromised health who have the highest risk of vaccine injury.

I initially balked at having a flu shot requirement when I nannied, but it seemed like the responsible thing to do to take that very tiny risk for myself rather possibly expose the babies and small children with compromised immune systems (many were preemies and not breast fed) I was working with to the very real, and much more likely danger of developing complications from the flu. Just like any other harm, I would try my best to put myself out there if it meant saving them. If you are going to work in a hospital I'd think you'd feel the same way about the patients there.

Even as a pretty healthy teenager I developed post flu pneumonia, and that was some pretty scary shit, I'd rather not repeat, so getting a shot seems like nothin'.

I opt for mercury free whenever possible just for the hell of it, but I eat sashimi like it is going out of style, so that is probably a moot point. My experience, I get slightly feverish, take a nap, and that is it. Chock full o' antibodies within a few days, and if the right strains were picked, hopefully flu free for another year.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:49 PM

And b/c the babies with compromised health are put at risk by even small procedures like vaccination, it is important for everyone else to vaccinate to create a herd immunity to protect them!

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on April 18, 2012
at 02:39 PM

The selenium in fish binds the mercury, I think the fish-mercury thing has been blown out of proportion

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 18, 2012
at 08:35 PM

I know Jeff, I kinda said that in jest. I saw a really cool article about 10 years ago talking about populations that ate heavily mercury contaminated fish as their primary foodstuff (it was an island in Europe), shoot I can't remember where I saw it, but anywho, the people who ate fish with mercury were fine, the people who ate grain contaminated with mercury (I believe that was in Iraq) had serious neurological issues from it. New idea....a dose of selenium with every vaccination?

5
A905679417ee71c3f9e2d88964b3b1f0

(368)

on April 18, 2012
at 06:20 PM

Please get vaccines it is irresponsible not too, and listening to blatantly unscientific conspiracy theories about them having these terrible side effects is the same thinking that got us on the SAD to begin with.

4
870fdea50f2a9f1cd2890c8e22549300

(2056)

on April 18, 2012
at 04:36 AM

With regard to the legality of requiring vaccines, have you checked the law in your state to see if there is a compulsory vaccination law for health care workers and if so whether there are philosophical opt-out provisions?

There is a good resource here on the relevant issues: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21414.pdf One excerpt:

"A number of states have laws requiring employees of certain health care facilities, such as hospitals and nursing homes, to be vaccinated against diseases such as measles, mumps, and rubella. Such laws, which vary widely, generally contain opt-out provisions where a vaccine is medically contraindicated or if the vaccine is against the individual???s religious or philosophical beliefs. A few states have laws pertaining to influenza vaccination of health care workers, and most that do provide for voluntary influenza immunization programs and staff education measures for employees; however, a few states have mandatory requirements for influenza vaccinations for health care workers."

3
Ab0369a70755bd07f44292b4ca8b2260

on April 18, 2012
at 04:06 AM

It's probably legal but they may allow you to sign a waiver to forego the vaccines at your own risk. Also you may look into blood titering. I do it for my dogs rather than vaccinate them. It measures the antibodies in your blood to the certain disease/virus and let's you (and your employer) know if you are sufficiently protected without a vaccine. It should be enough proof for an employer concerned about liability.

Which vaccines are they and will you be exposed to anything particularly harmful in this job?

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 12:37 PM

Hospitals are strict, for good reasons, because when you're working there you are exposed to the worst of everything in a community, distilled down to a single building. I would do it.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on April 18, 2012
at 04:25 AM

not sure about which ones yet, it'd be to work in a hospital

1
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 19, 2012
at 04:23 PM

I am surprised by the decidely "for" stance on vaccines in this thread. In my opinion, vaccines are not as great as most of the answers here make them out to be. Yes... there are some vaccines that have nearly eradicted some very severe diseases. In those cases, hooray for vaccines! But when every new parent is faced with which vaccine schedule to choose.. it can be a VERY difficult decision.

Mama Natural has done an excellent job compiling a video series on almost all the vaccines. Each video is only a couple minutes long.

http://mamanatural.com/tag/vaccines/

There are some vaccines that are a part of the routine schedule for newborns that are simply not necessary for everyone. And in some cases, the risks of getting injected with the vaccines are greater than the risks of not getting injected with it.

For those here that get upset with people who are unsure about whether or not vaccines are a wonderful thing for all babies... then add me to your list of "selfish and ignorant" people that have no regard for society as a whole.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on April 20, 2012
at 04:18 PM

Hard to be against vaccines after seeing kids with whooping cough, or listening to grandparents talk about the fear of polio everywhere before the vaccine.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 21, 2012
at 05:24 PM

Yes I understand these one off scenarios Jenny. Two of my brothers had whooping cough when I was 17 years old. I lived with them at the time. My older brother was nearly bedridden for 2 months. He was miserable. I never got it, but built up an immunity to it. (I put out a thread a while back that shows I tested with full immunity to pertussis). I like your idea of adults getting the shots more than babies, but then again, Chris Kresser believes that he can trace his and his wife's autoimmune issues directly back to vaccines they received as adults.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on April 20, 2012
at 12:30 AM

I was also surprised by so many 'for' votes

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 20, 2012
at 01:26 AM

I think context is important- an infants vaccination schedule is way different than a grown adult working in an environment with constant exposure to people with impaired immune system.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 21, 2012
at 01:54 AM

In a perfect world we wouldn't have to vaccinate babies in their first year of life, and all adults would be fully vaccinated, in order to protect everyone as effectively as possible (would also decrease the necessity for booster shots). Any adult or older child that isn't vaccinating is preventing that from being possible (look at the whooping cough outbreaks and measles- you have maintain work to maintain herd immunity). And polio is eradicated b/c of vaccination- there really is no need (like small pox) for the next generation to get it, though it is a very safe vaccine in general.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 21, 2012
at 01:56 AM

Even for older kids- the reason that I get all post-y up in here is not just b/c I did microbiology for a while, but because I was infected with whooping cough while recovering from heart surgery, and it was so miserable. In the hospital for a long time with broken ribs. I didn't know I was going to end up getting heart surgery or be immunosuppressed- but it happened, and I needed that herd immunity, but it failed me. While I was in hospital, a 4 month old was in there, breast fed since birth perfectly healthy, but got infected with whooping cough. You just never know.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 20, 2012
at 09:34 PM

not everyone has the same scenario. a baby who is formula fed and in day care has significantly higher risk of becoming sick from any of the viruses that childhood vaccines are intended to protect against. Also, there has only been 1 reported case of Polio in the US in the past 13 years. The disease is all but eradited domestically. http://www.post-polio.org/ir-usa.html. and before that, about 90% of the cases reported in the 80s and 90s were caused by a outbreak from a vaccine. See "Is polio still a disease seen in the United States?" http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 21, 2012
at 05:26 PM

As for Polio, I think the vaccine is no longer necessary in the states, and that it should be encouraged if you plan to travel oversees, depending on where you are going. Why give every single US born baby a vaccine for which there is no known person with the disease? The vaccine worked! Now it's time to retire it until it becomes necessary at a future date, if ever.

1
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on April 18, 2012
at 08:00 PM

Here's a link to someone who actually knows http://www.vaccineexemption.org/.

This has been made into a political issue, as is obvious from some of the answers. Vaccines are products- some have a decent track record and have been around for years, others are full of questionable junk and don't make any appreciable dent in the statistics of whatever it is they are supposed to prevent- yet we've got people acting like you are crazy for even asking. There are many different companies providing these products and the laws surrounding vaccines provide them with an unreasonable amount of cover. I've heard of a few products, like products intended to end addiction, being reclassified as vaccines, likely in an attempt to take advantage of the beneficial legal landscape. If soft drinks had the same political and legal cache, they'd not only be pushing us to drink a particular kind of soft drink, but all of them indiscriminately.

Soft drinks were originally marketed as medicinal, by the way, so the comparison is more apt than some of the historically challenged may think it is.

Here's a link to an article about making a vaccine for addiction: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/health/04vaccine.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

This is a link to an article about how a drug, which is called Chantix in the U.S. and Champix in the U.K. raises suicide rates in people who take it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056892/Anti-smoking-drug-greatly-raises-suicide-risk-used-resort.html. I post this here in case anyone thinks this anti-nicotine 'vaccine' is a good idea. I don't know why anyone would think so, especially on paleohacks, where the scary implications from an evolutionary perspective should be immediately obvious.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 09:42 PM

"products intended to end addiction, being reclassified as vaccines" -Source? I've never heard of that, and it sounds like a pretty hard stunt to pull off.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on April 19, 2012
at 03:05 PM

I put a link in body of my response. Ya know, you could have googled that one. Googling 'addiction vaccine' yields quite a few results. It should be a hard stunt to pull off, because people should just straight up say that is not a vaccine, but apparently we are expected to believe whatever the 'scientist' says.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 20, 2012
at 01:30 AM

How would the creation of antibodies block neurons? Asking for a source was a chance for you to back up your general statement with something.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on April 19, 2012
at 09:37 PM

Even if they manage to create antibodies, it is still a lie, and still reclassification. The anti-addiction stuff is really worrying because of how suicidal Chantix makes people. Blocking neurons is a bad idea. I know, I took Chantix to quit smoking. If they make this permanent, a lot of people will die. On these boards, asking for a source is the condescending thing to do.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 19, 2012
at 03:24 PM

After that little condescending attitude, I was actually hoping for a study. Thanks though, I will look into this "google" you speak of. The only real applicable thing on pubmed I found was a suggestion for future research, not anything on the mechanism or development process: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22356293 Not exactly a finding that's being marketed- they can't "reclassify drugs" as vaccines, because vaccines work entirely differently than drugs. They are trying to find an alternative vaccination for an anti-addiction drug.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on April 20, 2012
at 02:44 PM

Most of the time, asking for a source here is simply a cheap attempt to discredit. Chantix blocks the receptor sites where nicotine binds. They want to make something that does the same thing, but call it a vaccine. Nicotine isn't an organism, so it can't be a vaccine, but they could trick the immune system into producing molecules that would block the receptor sites. If they can call it a vaccine, their legal liability is greatly reduced, but there is no organism targeted here (except maybe humans).

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 20, 2012
at 03:12 PM

I was genuinely curious as to how this would work, which is why I asked for a source- sorry if you took that as an offensive, aggressive request. I've never heard of this, and I spent some time in microbiology, so I was interested. Thanks for bringing this to my attention though, it's something I can ask a few profs about to learn more.

1
F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on April 18, 2012
at 06:49 PM

What about getting vaccinations when you have severe food allergies? Like soy or egg? If soy is injected directly into my blood stream (such as glycerin) I can't imagine how bad the outcome would be.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:39 PM

You can ask for egg-free vaccines I know for sure, that's what my boyfriend got because he is allergic.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on April 18, 2012
at 10:21 PM

Jenny -good to know. My body is so wrecked right now in the health dept that I think adding anything foreign would be the worst idea ever.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 10:29 PM

If you aren't healthy just in general, it majorly decreases the chances of the vaccine being successful anyways! Wait to you feel better, avoid the emergency room/doctors office like the plague (literally), and encourage healthy family members to vaccinate, if at all possible, would be the best bet. This is what my parents did when I was too sick to be vaccinated, the only time it didn't work was when I had to stay in the hospital.

1
6b4909a79a5f70bd9e3d141be8e659de

on April 18, 2012
at 04:17 AM

Look up the ingredients of the vaccines and then decide if you want that stuff injected into your body. Even if it is mercury free, it still has other toxins in it. You can find an ingredient list I believe on the CDC website. As far as it being legal to make you get vaccinations, I guess that is up to the job. I think it is wrong since it is your body, so it should be your choice. Vaccines aren't 100% effective and you can still pass along illness even if you get vaccinated. My husband is in the military and they have to be up to date on vaccines and have to get the flu shot every year.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 04:47 PM

"It should be your choice"- the reason places like hospitals and vetrinary clinics take this out of your hands because choosing not to vaccinate does not only affect you, it has the power to affect everyone around you (especially elderly, pregnant, and infants due to undeveloped/compromised immune systems). They choose on behalf of the vulnerable members of society to enforce it, so it does make sense that they can mandate it (from a legal point of view).

0
F7d1b5a0ce3838e6a81ca8c18aec7776

(29)

on June 17, 2013
at 11:25 AM

About polio, 95 pecent of healthy people who contract polio do not get symptoms. Some 4 percent get flu like symptoms. ca. 1 percent contract paralitic polio. considering that they were crazy about bottle feeding crappy formula and cutting out tonsils (which have a protective immune effect against polio) when "grandpappy" was a kid, not to mention the liberal use of DDT, which not only weakens the immune system, but in cases of acute poisoning mimics polio symptoms we have a perfect storm for a polio epidemic.

Oh and because of better sanitation and an understanding of infection prevention protocol polio was on the decline for years before the salk vaccine came to be, as well as that the defenition of polio was changed to include only paralitic cases, tonsilectomys were reduced and DDT was eventually banned, well the rest is history.

Polio contines to rage in 3rd world countries despite almost manic vaccination efforts, this is because you can't have elimination of a disease without other factors such as controlling co-infection, better sanitation and nutritional status.

My dad had polio in the 50s, its no joke. I take disease seriously, but I am not going to be fear-mongered into consenting to a medical procedure for my children which can convey profound risk and is wholly unneeded. Every case of polio in the united states in the past 40 years has been caused by the vaccine. You can crow about how great vaccines are until you of your child becomes a statistic of "adverse vaccine reaction."

-3
1bc18852894dad9d6dddfb3dfed49ab3

(341)

on April 18, 2012
at 05:57 PM

My personal opinion is vaccines are financial fraud. Immune system is much better defense against viral infections. If someone has a compromised immune system then fix it instead of injecting poison. Most viral infections are mild and our immune system is more than capable of taking care of it.

The evidence of vaccine effectiveness against bacterial infections is purely anecdotal. Wash your hands instead. Much better than any vaccines. Again, our immune system takes care of most of bacterial infections very nicely. For very severe bacterial infections antibiotics do a very good job.

I had very few vaccines as a child and had none in the last 20 years. I work in a very busy office environment with lots of people. I interact with all kinds of people all the time. I get a 3-day cold/flu every 5-7 years. And 2 years ago I had bacterial infection from eating unwashed food. High fever, stomach ache, diarrhea. Did not take any medicines, it was gone after 2 days. Looking at myself and my family I say most of us do not need any vaccines.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:44 PM

Even in a vaccinated society you can get those diseases- b/c of unvaccinated kids in my community I got whooping cough after a heart surgery (in hospital, immune system down, staying in pediatrics). If you ever wanted to know the most unpleasant way to recover from a heart surgery, I would probably say it would be "get whooping cough and break a couple of ribs". Herd immunity is a delicate thing that needs to be maintained!

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on April 18, 2012
at 08:01 PM

If vaccines are so worthless, where are all the people dieing or disfigured from Smallpox every year? Oh yeah, there are none.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Yeah, the immune system is fantastic, which is why we vaccinate. To optimize our very best natural defense system, and to protect those who don't have optimal immune systems.

4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on April 18, 2012
at 06:40 PM

God, this sort of ignorance pisses me off. If it wasn't for vaccines, you or one of your family members probably would have gotten either measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, polio or another horrible, potentially life-altering or ending diseases regardless of how strong you think your immune system is. Let me ask you, do you think the prevalence of those diseases I just mentioned has dropped to almost nothing because everyone's immune system got so much better over the last 50 years, or do you think it maybe had something to do with vaccines?

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on April 18, 2012
at 07:44 PM

Also, the reason why you and your family is safe? Herd immunity. A collective "your welcome" from everyone else who got their vaccinations.

8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on April 18, 2012
at 06:23 PM

Tell that to all those people who died/were crippled with polio.

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