2

votes

Any reconsiderations on getting a flu shot?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created January 04, 2011 at 3:40 PM

In September I queried if anyone was getting a flu shot this year and why or why not. I still have not gotten one although Georgia (where I live) has lots of flu cases. I'm still not inclined to get the shot. I trust my body to deal with the flu if I get it and don't trust the mass-produced flu serum. It seems like every pharmacy gives shots from the one in Kroger's to the local CVA. Who produced all these vaccines and how well trained are the shot givers? I don't have direct contact with a lot of people, but do go to grocery stores, restaurants etc. So far I feel great. Started paleo sometime in August.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on June 17, 2013
at 04:16 PM

Of course, I'm also due for a tetanus booster... such a hypocrite I am... ;)

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on June 17, 2013
at 04:16 PM

Here's why you're folks today are anti-vaccine: Because in industrialized countries, folks have not seen these commonly immunized against diseases, some for at least a generation. They don't understand how bad they really can be. Most people have never seen tetanus, I have (not human) and it was scary as shit.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on June 17, 2013
at 04:12 PM

1-7% of the population has severe allergic reactions? B.S.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 17, 2013
at 12:13 PM

how do you reconcile that thought with the Sweedish study that looked at comparable first-world countries. They found that regarless of the availability of health care, countries that make the flu shot available at a minimal cost have fewer deaths from flu and related illnesses. Whereas some of the countries with free and available health care who do not make the flu shot widely available have higher death rates?

7df8f3cc7f1475c3ecbbd4a4feb87d04

(514)

on May 29, 2011
at 02:07 PM

but what about the theory that being healthy actually makes you MORE likely to get sick, because your immune system is strong and ready to mount a defense, while a weaker immune system would just let the virus/bacteria play around w/o causing symptoms of fever, runny nose, cough...?

F6c1df7d5699661bd1f0d6d0a6c17fc6

on January 20, 2011
at 11:17 PM

The problem with flu shots is they are not big business, so they add stuff to it to make it cheaper to store, and so that they have to use less of the actual virus that the flu shot is is supposed to stop. Anyway, have fun with that polio!

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 05, 2011
at 09:35 PM

I just don't think that we're a population subset that needs to worry about viral resistance. When you get D, C, sleep, and nutrition in general sorted out I think you really don't get sick. You may want to take a gander at this: http://www.bmj.com/content/333/7574/912.full

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 05, 2011
at 09:33 PM

I just don't think that we're a population subset that needs to worry about viral resistance. When you get D, C, sleep, and nutrition in general sorted out I think you really don't get sick. You may want to take a gander at this: http://blogs.ft.com/healthblog/2009/09/11/interview-dr-tom-jefferson-and-pandemic-flu-vaccines/

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 05, 2011
at 08:14 PM

So essentially do nothing at all for the cases that WOULD match because of the off cases that don't match?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 05, 2011
at 06:31 PM

I dunno, James, I'm not certain that being half-right makes the vaccine half-effective. If you miss the mark, you miss the strain. The flu virus that your neighbor will get a few months from now may not essentially exist yet.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on January 05, 2011
at 04:30 PM

vitamin D3 is big pharma? are you talking the shots or the OTC 2000IU pills? Im ok with big pharma making less than a penny a day on me. Ive seen the difference in my health by taking D3.

30fd031cc07a0d7dee7f1cad57f48a0c

(443)

on January 05, 2011
at 03:26 PM

Bump just for eating an awesome diet.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 09:22 PM

There's a reason there's so few flu vaccine companies out there...

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 09:15 PM

Well, I think he's correct, there's not really any controlled studies on flu vaccines. Basically because a lot of it was done before the scientific method and double blind studies, and it's grandfathered in. Doesn't mean that it doesn't work though. there's also ethical constraints these days. You ever hear about how the bacteria behind stomach ulcers were proven? The doctor chugged down a bottle of the bacteria and got ulcers. Who's going to do a trial study for that?

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 09:01 PM

I find that people that say that never had a bad case of the flu before. Couple weeks of downtime, fatigue, fever, etc. My dad got bronchitis and pneumonia after it. Not fun.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:56 PM

You *do* know that they create the vaccines based on the more prevalent strains at the time (usually 3-5)? They won't get every possible combination, but if 80% of the infections in an area is due to a single strain, you're more likely to have an impact by including it. Perfect? No. But the best we can provide at this time? Yes.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:55 PM

"There are also no controlled studies completed in any country which have objectively proven that vaccines have had any direct or consequential effect on the reduction of any type of disease in any part of the world." I was also wondering if they had ever heard of smallpox or polio.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:54 PM

"There are also no controlled studies completed in any country which have objectively proven that vaccines have had any direct or consequential effect on the reduction of any type of disease in any part of the world." Wow, I wonder if they have ever heard of smallpox or polio.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:52 PM

I think it's fascinating that in this day and age, we can have legitimate arguments on whether or not to vaccinate. Simply because vaccination has reduced/eliminated a lot of the diseases that less than a hundred years ago killed hundreds of thousands of people a year. Changing the risk/reward calculations. That guy is ranting about vaccines not being safe, tested, or effective. Tell me again how many people die from Smallpox each year? How about Polio? How many people are crippled for life from it now as compared to 100 years ago? I do note that the Polio one was NOT a safe vaccine.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:47 PM

Vitamin D supplements are also big business from big pharma.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:34 PM

I think most people would be stumped by the sheer weight of wilful ignorance and missundertanding in that article. It would be hard to even know where to start.

30fd031cc07a0d7dee7f1cad57f48a0c

(443)

on January 04, 2011
at 06:03 PM

D3 is dosed in iu (international units) not mg (milligrams)

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on January 04, 2011
at 04:30 PM

RE, "BIG BUSINESS"--I imagine the margins on the manufacture of flu vaccines are quite small, otherwise more companies would be drawn into the business. Besides, the business implications of the vaccine are irrelevant to the decision of whether to take the vaccine, which should be based strictly on the costs vs benefits.

30fd031cc07a0d7dee7f1cad57f48a0c

(443)

on January 04, 2011
at 04:09 PM

Depending on your lat/long. I would say possibly even more then 2000 iu a day....maybe starting around 5000 iu. Vit d3 inhibits the immune system from overreacting to the flu and generating an ARDS response.

6fa48935d439390e223b9a053a62c981

(1676)

on January 04, 2011
at 04:08 PM

2000mg or 2000IU?

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11 Answers

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8
30fd031cc07a0d7dee7f1cad57f48a0c

(443)

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

I teach the infectious update at my Fire Department and always give the pro's AND con's of each shot, so that an individual may make an informed decision. The side effects most of the time out weigh the benefits. That being said I have never received one and have only had the flu once in 11 years while working on a paramedic unit, dealing with sick patients all day. Avoid sick people, WASH YOUR HANDS and eat a great diet (and sleep) and your immune system will do the rest.

What is good for society is not necessarily good for an individual.

4
5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 05:02 PM

The flu shot is a sticky matter. The flu shot is a personal decision, however, I notice that a lot of people only consider themselves in the matter. They think "Hey if I get sick, no biggie, I'll get over it. MY immune system will handle it fine."

However, if you are around the elderly or immunocompromised (ie. people with AIDS or some other immune problem) you can kill them if you get sick and pass it on to the them.

That said, on a personal basis, it's all cost vs benefit. People tend to see the flu shot as a panacea. However, something that you don't really hear about is that the flu shot is not 100% effective, it's roughly 60% effective (less in the elderly). It's also not effective against the cold. So even if you get the shot, you can still get the flu or a cold. You can't depend on it alone, you need to wash your hands, eat well, sleep well, and stay away from the visibly sick people.

I don't deal with the elderly or immunocompromised, but I work in an office with roughly 1,000 people in the building, many of which have little children, aka germ factories. Several in my immediate area travel nationwide (and bring back whatever they get in other parts of the country). The people have a bad habit of not getting a flu shot AND coming in to work sick. Thus getting everyone around them sick as well.

That's why even eating paleo, washing hands, etc. I still get the flu shot. I consider it a high risk environment. This year, I haven't gotten sick, even with everyone around me coughing up a lung. Is it paleo? Is it washing the hands obsessively? Is it avoiding the coughing and weezing people around me? Is it the flu shot? Is it all the above? I don't know, but I'm doing as much as I can to avoid it.

3
Ef9f83cb4e1826261a44c173f733789e

on January 04, 2011
at 03:47 PM

I never do, and I'm actually offended by the way some people (like those at my workplace) push it on us. I rarely get the flu, but if I do I just tough it out.

2
Medium avatar

on January 04, 2011
at 07:57 PM

I'm fairly certain that it's impossible at this point in time for humans to predict the specific type of hemagglutinin on the surface of the ever-mutating, incoming flu strain. As such, until we start to manufacture vaccines that also contain significant quantities of viral proteins that are common to all types of viruses, flu vaccines will be worse than worthless, since there's a chance that you'll be infected with a flu virus that you wouldn't otherwise encounter. Even if those proteins are added to the vaccines, it's not clear that it will offer any increase in immunity because presumably every one of us has already been exposed to those proteins repeatedly and thus our immune system already knows about it.

I take: 5000 IU of D3 a day for at least half the year. 1g of C a day. 2 cups of spinach at least a day, sufficient sleep, and all of the other normal foods you guys eat. I used to get sick 5-6 times a year but I haven't since I started going down this road in May. We'll see.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 05, 2011
at 08:14 PM

So essentially do nothing at all for the cases that WOULD match because of the off cases that don't match?

30fd031cc07a0d7dee7f1cad57f48a0c

(443)

on January 05, 2011
at 03:26 PM

Bump just for eating an awesome diet.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:56 PM

You *do* know that they create the vaccines based on the more prevalent strains at the time (usually 3-5)? They won't get every possible combination, but if 80% of the infections in an area is due to a single strain, you're more likely to have an impact by including it. Perfect? No. But the best we can provide at this time? Yes.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 05, 2011
at 06:31 PM

I dunno, James, I'm not certain that being half-right makes the vaccine half-effective. If you miss the mark, you miss the strain. The flu virus that your neighbor will get a few months from now may not essentially exist yet.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 05, 2011
at 09:35 PM

I just don't think that we're a population subset that needs to worry about viral resistance. When you get D, C, sleep, and nutrition in general sorted out I think you really don't get sick. You may want to take a gander at this: http://www.bmj.com/content/333/7574/912.full

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 05, 2011
at 09:33 PM

I just don't think that we're a population subset that needs to worry about viral resistance. When you get D, C, sleep, and nutrition in general sorted out I think you really don't get sick. You may want to take a gander at this: http://blogs.ft.com/healthblog/2009/09/11/interview-dr-tom-jefferson-and-pandemic-flu-vaccines/

7df8f3cc7f1475c3ecbbd4a4feb87d04

(514)

on May 29, 2011
at 02:07 PM

but what about the theory that being healthy actually makes you MORE likely to get sick, because your immune system is strong and ready to mount a defense, while a weaker immune system would just let the virus/bacteria play around w/o causing symptoms of fever, runny nose, cough...?

2
E9798942dfaa0cda97a8f9a71c128c5d

(168)

on January 04, 2011
at 04:06 PM

Take 2000 mg of Vit D3/day. Recent Japanese studies show this is JUST as effective as flu immunizations. You have to understand, flu immunizations are BIG BUSINESS from BIG PHARMA.

JUST SAY NO!!!!

6fa48935d439390e223b9a053a62c981

(1676)

on January 04, 2011
at 04:08 PM

2000mg or 2000IU?

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 09:22 PM

There's a reason there's so few flu vaccine companies out there...

30fd031cc07a0d7dee7f1cad57f48a0c

(443)

on January 04, 2011
at 04:09 PM

Depending on your lat/long. I would say possibly even more then 2000 iu a day....maybe starting around 5000 iu. Vit d3 inhibits the immune system from overreacting to the flu and generating an ARDS response.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on January 04, 2011
at 04:30 PM

RE, "BIG BUSINESS"--I imagine the margins on the manufacture of flu vaccines are quite small, otherwise more companies would be drawn into the business. Besides, the business implications of the vaccine are irrelevant to the decision of whether to take the vaccine, which should be based strictly on the costs vs benefits.

30fd031cc07a0d7dee7f1cad57f48a0c

(443)

on January 04, 2011
at 06:03 PM

D3 is dosed in iu (international units) not mg (milligrams)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:47 PM

Vitamin D supplements are also big business from big pharma.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on January 05, 2011
at 04:30 PM

vitamin D3 is big pharma? are you talking the shots or the OTC 2000IU pills? Im ok with big pharma making less than a penny a day on me. Ive seen the difference in my health by taking D3.

F6c1df7d5699661bd1f0d6d0a6c17fc6

on January 20, 2011
at 11:17 PM

The problem with flu shots is they are not big business, so they add stuff to it to make it cheaper to store, and so that they have to use less of the actual virus that the flu shot is is supposed to stop. Anyway, have fun with that polio!

2
0dc1d63c3d5975f5115f535c6a90c9dd

(2283)

on January 04, 2011
at 04:03 PM

Eat well (paleo) and also eat fermented veggies (homemade kimchi, sauerkraut, water kefir, kombucha), take high vitamin cod liver oil and vitamin C in the form of sodium ascorbate. Get plenty of fresh air and sunshine and rest. You don't need a flu shot. If you do get the flu, take more vitamin c and eat raw garlic or make homemade chicken stock with plenty of garlic. The body is amazing and does whatever necessary to be well, when we provide it with the tools to do so.

1
61b801de5dc345b557cd4623d4a4f26b

(2682)

on January 20, 2011
at 09:36 PM

Here is an article I found in today's news about a side effect from the flu shot that infants receive.

Children under age 2 get seizures. The seizures eventually go away for MOST kids and leave no lasting damage, so apparently that makes it OK to still give them this vaccine.

They are looking for causes of the seizures other than the vaccine, but I will stay away from it personally.

1
B76f22ed4373946b3c8990b667562683

on January 04, 2011
at 04:01 PM

With a few rare exceptions of immunocompromised individuals, we are all capable of combating the flu with our natural immune systems. That's why Nature gave them to us. The number one complaint I hear from people about getting flu shots is ironic: it gave me the flu! Seems silly.

Worse than that, though, is the fact that flu shots have been linked to certain neurological disorders, such as Guillain-Barr??, as a result of the way they are manufactured. I say eat healthy, stay fit, and keep it natural.

1
76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on January 04, 2011
at 03:58 PM

The last vaccine I got gave me a reaction that was five times worse than any flu. I'm young, healthy, and careful about protecting myself from outside germs. Plus, I think I would choose the flu over that horrible reaction from hell that vaccines seem to give me.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 09:01 PM

I find that people that say that never had a bad case of the flu before. Couple weeks of downtime, fatigue, fever, etc. My dad got bronchitis and pneumonia after it. Not fun.

0
0c0c5c65612425e497b7231c21516943

(1354)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:04 PM

http://preventdisease.com/news/09/102809_9_arguments_to_win_any_vaccine_debate.shtml

Above is a list of good questions that should be addressed before vaccinations, including the flu.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:34 PM

I think most people would be stumped by the sheer weight of wilful ignorance and missundertanding in that article. It would be hard to even know where to start.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:55 PM

"There are also no controlled studies completed in any country which have objectively proven that vaccines have had any direct or consequential effect on the reduction of any type of disease in any part of the world." I was also wondering if they had ever heard of smallpox or polio.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:54 PM

"There are also no controlled studies completed in any country which have objectively proven that vaccines have had any direct or consequential effect on the reduction of any type of disease in any part of the world." Wow, I wonder if they have ever heard of smallpox or polio.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 09:15 PM

Well, I think he's correct, there's not really any controlled studies on flu vaccines. Basically because a lot of it was done before the scientific method and double blind studies, and it's grandfathered in. Doesn't mean that it doesn't work though. there's also ethical constraints these days. You ever hear about how the bacteria behind stomach ulcers were proven? The doctor chugged down a bottle of the bacteria and got ulcers. Who's going to do a trial study for that?

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 04, 2011
at 08:52 PM

I think it's fascinating that in this day and age, we can have legitimate arguments on whether or not to vaccinate. Simply because vaccination has reduced/eliminated a lot of the diseases that less than a hundred years ago killed hundreds of thousands of people a year. Changing the risk/reward calculations. That guy is ranting about vaccines not being safe, tested, or effective. Tell me again how many people die from Smallpox each year? How about Polio? How many people are crippled for life from it now as compared to 100 years ago? I do note that the Polio one was NOT a safe vaccine.

-1
F7d1b5a0ce3838e6a81ca8c18aec7776

(29)

on June 17, 2013
at 11:46 AM

The mortality rate of many diseases has gone down because of very simple things like fever reducing medication and IVs. More people died of the flu 100 years ago than now for reasons completly unrelated to vaccination.

Vaccination is getting far more credit than it deserves in regards to preventing mortality. The way they talk about measels today you would think it was toxic ebola-cancer. Over 1300 kids got measels in the UK in 2011, there were two deaths, probably a lower amount than what would be expected to die from vaccine complications incl. severe allergic reactions that affect 1 to 7 percent of the population.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on June 17, 2013
at 04:16 PM

Of course, I'm also due for a tetanus booster... such a hypocrite I am... ;)

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 17, 2013
at 12:13 PM

how do you reconcile that thought with the Sweedish study that looked at comparable first-world countries. They found that regarless of the availability of health care, countries that make the flu shot available at a minimal cost have fewer deaths from flu and related illnesses. Whereas some of the countries with free and available health care who do not make the flu shot widely available have higher death rates?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on June 17, 2013
at 04:16 PM

Here's why you're folks today are anti-vaccine: Because in industrialized countries, folks have not seen these commonly immunized against diseases, some for at least a generation. They don't understand how bad they really can be. Most people have never seen tetanus, I have (not human) and it was scary as shit.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on June 17, 2013
at 04:12 PM

1-7% of the population has severe allergic reactions? B.S.

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