0

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Hack my lifting plan?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 08, 2012 at 10:33 AM

After a three week break from lifting and ordering Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe (which won't arrive until August 14), I've made up my own routine that I will start tomorrow. Are there any experienced lifters out there who can provide some feedback please?

Workout A:

5x5 each of back squats, chin ups and dips (increasing load to reach 5RM in the last set)

Workout B:

5x5 each of deadlifts, push ups and overhead presses (increasing load, reps for push ups, to reach 5RM in the last set)

I prefer to work on push ups rather than bench at the moment because I'm a weak little girl who can barely do five. I would warm up and cool down with 5 minutes increasing/decreasing speed each on an elliptical. I would do A and B alternately, resting enough between each until I feel fully recovered (most likely be doing some yoga or dance in between). I'm 17, 172cm, 62kg. I eat 100% Paleo. Thanks in advance, and if anyone has reviews or thoughts on SS, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on July 23, 2012
at 03:52 PM

@Klod: So, as a practical matter, if someone asks me how many sets they should do as a part of a resistance training program, I'm going to tell them that doing more than three is probably a waste of time. They might benefit from doing more, or they might not, but for someone training for general fitness, it's unlikely that the difference between 3 and 5 sets justifies the investment in time. Anyway, if you want to put your Internet connection to good use, spend more time at PubMed and less at trainer's blogs.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on July 23, 2012
at 03:44 PM

@Klod: Just to make you happy, I read Poliquin's blogpost. He cites one study in which 8-sets produced better results than 1 or 4 sets. I can't be arsed to read the full text at the moment, so let's just say it's a well designed study with valid results. My point is that there are also good studies in which there was no benefit from doing more than three sets. That doesn't necessarily mean that any of the studies are "wrong", just that people can respond very differently to weight-training, but it does mean that Poliquin is cherry-picking his sources.

3967ae8ccdd35a794898a892271d27e7

(372)

on July 23, 2012
at 02:40 AM

Especially when the first line of his post says " A recent study in the European Journal of Applied Physiology shows why less is not more when it comes to training by comparing the effect 1, 4, or 8 sets of heavy squats on strength and body composition." Amazing how diligent you were in actually CHECKING the fucking link. Brilliance.

3967ae8ccdd35a794898a892271d27e7

(372)

on July 23, 2012
at 02:37 AM

Love how Charles Poliquin is referred to as a meathead. I love the internet.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on July 23, 2012
at 01:44 AM

Also, Mark Rippitoe discusses why studies like this get these results. These studies typically use college age students taking weight lifting classes. This sample group is almost universally novice level (aka no prior training) lifters. A novice level lifter for the first 4-12 weeks of virtually any program will gain strength. Once that initial period is over, that is when strength training comes in. I weight 165 and squat 370 all from a 3x5 linear progression. For some reason those guys on the leg press are stuck at doing sets of 10 with lower weight (leg press ha!)...wonder why?

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on July 23, 2012
at 01:41 AM

@ coachcanadian...I thought that strength was between 1-8 reps (5 being the sweet spot so most programs focus on 3x5 or [email protected]% or more of 1RM)...hypertrophy's sweet spot is between 10-12 reps @ about 70% of 1RM and muscular endurance is greater than 12+ reps with lighter weight. If training to failure was all that was required to get stronger, then marathon runners would be some of the strongest people in the world (their not).

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on July 23, 2012
at 01:33 AM

If you want to do starting strength, do starting strength. The programming is available from multiple sources on the internet. Complete text is invaluable for the descriptions and explanation behind every lift and more. August 14th? Did you order it from Siberia?

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 10, 2012
at 01:10 PM

Program looks good, just make sure you are doing correct form, as some of the exercises listed can cause injury if not executed properly.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on July 09, 2012
at 01:47 AM

@CoachCanadan: The review article I linked to looked at five studies that measured strength gains with various reps per set. They found that, with one exception, reps from 2RM to 150RM produced the same increases in strength. The article cited two studies that measured muscular endurance with various reps per set. Again, rep ranges from 6RM to 150RM produced no significant differences in endurance. I'm not really interested in muscular hypertrophy, but when it comes to strength and endurance, the "rep scheme" doesn't matter as long as each lift is performed to failure.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on July 09, 2012
at 01:17 AM

Tell you boys what: Come up with some references from peer-reviewed journals, and I'll take you seriously. Links to blogposts from fellow meatheads are not likely to change my mind.

C3bc92e6b5eba45dc55f43ac3c70cc25

on July 09, 2012
at 12:08 AM

Sam you should write a book. The minimalist guide to lifting weights for minimal results.

A1a7413b99e03bc77f02d95c4170ea43

(2393)

on July 08, 2012
at 07:08 PM

Rep scheme DOES matter, depending on what you want to achieve. Doing a set of 15 squats at 135lbs will be different than doing a set of three squats at 225lbs, and MUCH different than a set of three squats at 135lbs. 1-4 reps = strength. 5-8 = hypertrophy. 9+ = muscular endurance. The weights will obviously have to be adjusted accordingly. And squats and deadlifts are CERTAINLY not the same thing...

3967ae8ccdd35a794898a892271d27e7

(372)

on July 08, 2012
at 05:11 PM

I could say a lot of things, but I don't want to be a dick. I'll say two things: 1) Squats + Deadlifts are not the same exercise 2) http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/1372/Tip-385-Avoid-Diminishing-Returns-Train-With-A-Large-Volume-To-Improve-Strength-Rapidly.aspx

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 08, 2012
at 05:10 PM

It is worth pointing out that Intensity does matter a great deal thought, as the paper you link says....In general I disagree about your assessment of what is or is not redundant or necessary though.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on July 08, 2012
at 11:44 AM

Starting strength is great for proper form etc etc. Google Stronglifts PDF and download it, thats what you really need. Follow that up with reading the F***ckarounditis posting over on Leangains. Between those 3 resources you will be good to go for quite a while.

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7 Answers

best answer

0
3967ae8ccdd35a794898a892271d27e7

(372)

on July 08, 2012
at 05:14 PM

Your program looks good. The most important thing is consistency(and form, but that is a given).

As many strength coaches would say:

"Just Lift"

On a side note, no program is the holy grail. Just keep lifting with proper form until you can't increase the weight any more. Then start worrying about advanced programming.

K

1
3b6a6979149dd6bfdb56e3930bde3b39

on July 08, 2012
at 11:01 AM

Check out startingstrength.wikia.com It has all the basics for the program.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on July 23, 2012
at 01:33 AM

If you want to do starting strength, do starting strength. The programming is available from multiple sources on the internet. Complete text is invaluable for the descriptions and explanation behind every lift and more. August 14th? Did you order it from Siberia?

0
Fc25b41326b954c4e5b8ce0dabb889a6

on July 23, 2012
at 02:31 AM

I'm on stronglifts 5x5. Its definitely worth it and you start with the bar on almost every exercise. IN 6 weeks weeks i've added almost 90lbs to my squat, 50lbs to my bench and countless amounts of weight to every exercise I do. Shoulder press, killing me cause of my bum shoulder.

0
F55085b09b5bc154a7ddc7fb9c6c168b

on July 08, 2012
at 03:34 PM

Honestly the only thing I would change would be in your workout B add some sort of pulling exercises (barbell/dumbell rows, cable rows or any sort of row of that sort.) It's a pretty good program that will get you comfortably with basis and comfortable with free weights. The set and rep scheme is good and proven. And I would stick with both the squats and deadlifts-- both and great exercises that work the body in very different ways. When done properly they are VERy different. And I'd keep working the vertical push pull as well as horizontal because it will help with shoulder stability and help you lifting longer.

0
9c4ba98a3b480408bcf207f558fe659b

(355)

on July 08, 2012
at 02:03 PM

Congratulations on buying Starting Strength!

I recommend spending some time on the starting strength wiki - it is a valuable adjunct to the book. I would hesitate implementing squatting and deadlifting without either proper instruction or having studied the book or Rip's videos in detail (searching Rippetoe on youtube is a good idea) and having had your form critiqued (the Rippetoe forums are a very good for this).

If you feel confident with squats and deads then I would implement the novice program as outlined in the ss wiki, replacing power cleans with pull-ups if you are not confident with them.

Good Luck!

0
E4b14e23024642b553a224d284d11422

(153)

on July 08, 2012
at 11:19 AM

If you're doing this in a gym environment i'd look at doing the following program;

Workout A: Squat, Bench (Or Pressups until you're comfortable doing bench with just the bar), Bent Over Row.

Workout B: Squat, Overhead Press, Pullups (Or Lat Pull Down), Deadlift.

Doing 5x5 will work more muscular strength then muscular endurance so some people prefer to do 2x10 to achieve hypertrophy.

I'd do the workouts alternately and 3x per week with progressive loading (add 2.5kg to each lift everytime you hit the gym unless you stall then repeat the same weight again).

Take a look at Stronglift 5x5 by Mehdi which this program is pretty much based off. Only alteration is the Pullup/Lat pulldown as you're then working in every plane of movement.

Don't worry about doing 5x5 of deadlifts - just do warmup sets and 1x5 work set, if you feel comfortable and have good form you can also increase deadlift weight by 5kg each workout instead of 2.5kg as this lift develops pretty quickly and you will probably lift more then you expect.

Either way good luck with the program, and enjoy the SS book, its a good read.

-4
F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on July 08, 2012
at 02:46 PM

It's pretty well established that there's little or no benefit to more than three sets per lift:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2956949/?tool=pubmed

Also, little or no difference in strength gains between low or high reps. Pick a number that feels comfortable to you, or alternate numbers at random.

http://versita.metapress.com/content/h86m566718338834/fulltext.pdf

In my opinion, you don't need to do both squats and deadlifts. They are essentially the same movements, although for most people the deadlift is a shorter range of motion. I don't see the need to add vertical pushing/pulling movements, either. They're redundant to horizontal pushing/pulling movements, unless you're training for something that specifically requires them. Also, no real benefit to alternating exercises.

So, I guess my input is that your program seems unnecessarily complicated. One to three sets of squats or deadlifts, bench press or pushups, and upright rows or something similar, and you're good to go.

3967ae8ccdd35a794898a892271d27e7

(372)

on July 08, 2012
at 05:11 PM

I could say a lot of things, but I don't want to be a dick. I'll say two things: 1) Squats + Deadlifts are not the same exercise 2) http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/1372/Tip-385-Avoid-Diminishing-Returns-Train-With-A-Large-Volume-To-Improve-Strength-Rapidly.aspx

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on July 09, 2012
at 01:47 AM

@CoachCanadan: The review article I linked to looked at five studies that measured strength gains with various reps per set. They found that, with one exception, reps from 2RM to 150RM produced the same increases in strength. The article cited two studies that measured muscular endurance with various reps per set. Again, rep ranges from 6RM to 150RM produced no significant differences in endurance. I'm not really interested in muscular hypertrophy, but when it comes to strength and endurance, the "rep scheme" doesn't matter as long as each lift is performed to failure.

A1a7413b99e03bc77f02d95c4170ea43

(2393)

on July 08, 2012
at 07:08 PM

Rep scheme DOES matter, depending on what you want to achieve. Doing a set of 15 squats at 135lbs will be different than doing a set of three squats at 225lbs, and MUCH different than a set of three squats at 135lbs. 1-4 reps = strength. 5-8 = hypertrophy. 9+ = muscular endurance. The weights will obviously have to be adjusted accordingly. And squats and deadlifts are CERTAINLY not the same thing...

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 08, 2012
at 05:10 PM

It is worth pointing out that Intensity does matter a great deal thought, as the paper you link says....In general I disagree about your assessment of what is or is not redundant or necessary though.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on July 09, 2012
at 01:17 AM

Tell you boys what: Come up with some references from peer-reviewed journals, and I'll take you seriously. Links to blogposts from fellow meatheads are not likely to change my mind.

C3bc92e6b5eba45dc55f43ac3c70cc25

on July 09, 2012
at 12:08 AM

Sam you should write a book. The minimalist guide to lifting weights for minimal results.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on July 23, 2012
at 03:52 PM

@Klod: So, as a practical matter, if someone asks me how many sets they should do as a part of a resistance training program, I'm going to tell them that doing more than three is probably a waste of time. They might benefit from doing more, or they might not, but for someone training for general fitness, it's unlikely that the difference between 3 and 5 sets justifies the investment in time. Anyway, if you want to put your Internet connection to good use, spend more time at PubMed and less at trainer's blogs.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on July 23, 2012
at 01:44 AM

Also, Mark Rippitoe discusses why studies like this get these results. These studies typically use college age students taking weight lifting classes. This sample group is almost universally novice level (aka no prior training) lifters. A novice level lifter for the first 4-12 weeks of virtually any program will gain strength. Once that initial period is over, that is when strength training comes in. I weight 165 and squat 370 all from a 3x5 linear progression. For some reason those guys on the leg press are stuck at doing sets of 10 with lower weight (leg press ha!)...wonder why?

3967ae8ccdd35a794898a892271d27e7

(372)

on July 23, 2012
at 02:37 AM

Love how Charles Poliquin is referred to as a meathead. I love the internet.

3967ae8ccdd35a794898a892271d27e7

(372)

on July 23, 2012
at 02:40 AM

Especially when the first line of his post says " A recent study in the European Journal of Applied Physiology shows why less is not more when it comes to training by comparing the effect 1, 4, or 8 sets of heavy squats on strength and body composition." Amazing how diligent you were in actually CHECKING the fucking link. Brilliance.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on July 23, 2012
at 03:44 PM

@Klod: Just to make you happy, I read Poliquin's blogpost. He cites one study in which 8-sets produced better results than 1 or 4 sets. I can't be arsed to read the full text at the moment, so let's just say it's a well designed study with valid results. My point is that there are also good studies in which there was no benefit from doing more than three sets. That doesn't necessarily mean that any of the studies are "wrong", just that people can respond very differently to weight-training, but it does mean that Poliquin is cherry-picking his sources.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on July 23, 2012
at 01:41 AM

@ coachcanadian...I thought that strength was between 1-8 reps (5 being the sweet spot so most programs focus on 3x5 or [email protected]% or more of 1RM)...hypertrophy's sweet spot is between 10-12 reps @ about 70% of 1RM and muscular endurance is greater than 12+ reps with lighter weight. If training to failure was all that was required to get stronger, then marathon runners would be some of the strongest people in the world (their not).

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