2

votes

Paleo Toddler "milk"

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created January 16, 2012 at 11:01 PM

So my 2 year old is still breastfed, but I need a 'milk substitute' for when she's being babysat. She won't go to sleep without being nursed or having a bottle of formula. She has a dairy and soy intolerance, so she's been on Alimentum when she's being babysat. I've never been very comfortable with her having this because I think it's so full of crap, but until she was 2, she "had" to be on either breastmilk, formula or whole cow's milk.
I just realized that the Alimentum is constipating her horribly! I know that pumping would be the best option, but I'm not producing enough milk anymore to pump very much. It also takes way to long (like over an hour) and she still wouldn't have enough for 1 bottle. We're also trying to get pregnant again and I don't think pumping would help that situation very much either. I would also like something that I could 'sort of' wean her onto. I'm planning on nursing her still for a while, but I do need to work part time...
Anyway, I've been debating almond milk or coconut milk, but I worry about some of the crap that's in that too. I've thought about making my own almond milk too. It's also possible that she's outgrown the dairy intolerance, so maybe some organic milk? But then I worry that could constipate too... What to do??

2f931662684a7747be36255c8b486228

(1049)

on January 19, 2012
at 12:39 AM

NO, they actually push with their tongues...this pushing force against the gums (and breast) help form the teeth that will come. One of the reasons why expressing milk with a pump can be so difficult...and also painful, it is based on a kind of pulling (or sucking) motion. If you express manualy..there is only pushing (or squeezing). I actually realized all of this too late, myself. But the knowledge came in very handy when I decided to re-lactate later on.

6ec8d30130a6fb274871314533b5536b

(581)

on January 17, 2012
at 11:23 PM

Babies under 3 are still very intelligent, and I would argue that some in fact DO train adults. Either consciously or unconsciously. I have a friend who has a 2 year old younger sister who is extremely intelligent... she communicates fully, in mostly-full sentences, has a wild imagination, tells stories, asks a lot of intelligent questions, and knows how to get what she wants. I think it's important NOT to underestimate a person, just because they are young. But that's just my two cents. :)

6ec8d30130a6fb274871314533b5536b

(581)

on January 17, 2012
at 11:20 PM

How odd! I've never heard of that dental problem. I was bottle-fed because I was born premature and my mother was unable to produce milk for me. I also suck my thumb until I was about 5... and I never needed any braces or retainers, etc, and have naturally perfect teeth. I am very intrigued by this theory, and I was wondering... if it is the sucking that damages the teeth, then why don't people have that same problem from breastfeeding? Don't babies also suck a mother's nipple the way they suck a bottle's nipple? I ask because I don't have children, but plan on having some someday. Thanks!

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on January 17, 2012
at 06:10 PM

@Heidi - I think your answer about changing the bedtime ritual so that it doesn't involve feeding is spot on. I worried about their teeth being bathed in milk sugars and about their digestive systems working during the night when their brains needed to be busy building neural connections uninhibited. We all worry too much, don't we? Kind of goes with the job I guess.

B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on January 17, 2012
at 04:53 PM

I like the bottle of water idea although I imagine it would work best if you slowly diluted whatever she is currently drinking until it is eventually all water.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on January 17, 2012
at 06:44 AM

I'm all for everyone parenting in the way it's most sustainable for them. I did what I needed to to stay sane, I'm sure what's working for you is equally viable. We all need to just be the best parents we can.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on January 17, 2012
at 04:15 AM

I drink bone broth all day, it has replaced my tea and some of my water intake. Especially since I found out I can make a perpetual broth from this post. http://nourishedkitchen.com/perpetual-soup-the-easiest-bone-broth-youll-make/ I don't use a slow cooker, I have a gas stove so I just leave it on the burner for constant use. See if you can get a chopped cow hoof and shin from the butcher, an Asian store or a farmer. It makes delectable broth.

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 03:16 AM

That's a great idea! I'm not sure if she'd accept it, but either way I'd love to try this, even just for me! lol! I wonder if you could use the bone broth instead of water for extra calcium and other minerals?

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 03:11 AM

That's a great idea! I'm not sure if she'd accept it, but either way I'd love to try this, even just for me! lol!

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:54 AM

Thanks! That's definitely a great idea if I wanted to pump to supply the milk. I would really like to figure out a solution that doesn't involve pumping, although if that is the only solution that will work then I will do it. She's already 27 months and I really, really want to get pregnant again. I also had a miscarriage that I'm pretty sure was initiated by pumping (long story!) so I'd like to avoid it.

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:52 AM

Thanks for the idea, I hadn't considered a milkshare before. I will definitely check it out. I'll also investigate the goat's milk idea :)

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:49 AM

It is possible, but she's never gone to sleep without it. She does seem pretty attached to it. She's been babysat by her grandparents a couple times a month since she was born, so it's very much a habit that's been engrained in her for being babysat as well. Do you know if goat's milk is constipating? Apparently, in dairy there are chemicals that stimulate the opioid receptors and it sort of 'numbs' the colon, which can lead to constipation in some people. I wonder if that's the same for goat's milk? A milkshare is an interesting idea that I hadn't considered. :) Thanks for your answer!

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:48 AM

I used to blend coconut milk with a bit of water to feed my friend's 2 year old (who I was living with at the time)- the only concern I had was the sugars left in the carbohydrates, I always worried about her teeth. Have you tried your young one with goat's milk yet? My friend and I ended up trying the goats milk, the 2 year old was fine with it even though the cows milk had given her rashes and eczema! Still have to worry about the teeth, we just made sure we brushed her teeth before she conked out.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:48 AM

We cosleep too.

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:46 AM

Thanks for your comment. I'm pretty into attachment parenting (the closest to 'primal parenting' I guess) so we cosleep. Even her grandparents cosleep when they babysit. She cosleeps for naps too, so I'm not particularly interested in changing her habits. I think she will change them on her own when she's ready.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:40 AM

It is completely normal and healthy for a nine month old to nurse in the middle of the night. This is modified cry it out. Babies under 3 don't "train" adults. They let them know what their needs are in the best way they know how.

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8 Answers

4
1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

on January 17, 2012
at 02:47 AM

When I can't nurse my son for whatever reason, and I really hate pumping, I give him a cup of warm home made bone broth or some raw goat milk. Since you say your daughter is dairy intolerant you could make home made coconut milk, which is super simple, free of all the thickeners and guar gums, cheap, and tasty. Here's a recipe.

http://wellnessmama.com/2447/homemade-coconut-milk/

Another thing that seems to satiate him when I can't nurse him is warm, soft boiled egg yolks. A few of those seem to calm him and even make I'm a little sleepy if it's close to nap or bed time.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on January 17, 2012
at 04:15 AM

I drink bone broth all day, it has replaced my tea and some of my water intake. Especially since I found out I can make a perpetual broth from this post. http://nourishedkitchen.com/perpetual-soup-the-easiest-bone-broth-youll-make/ I don't use a slow cooker, I have a gas stove so I just leave it on the burner for constant use. See if you can get a chopped cow hoof and shin from the butcher, an Asian store or a farmer. It makes delectable broth.

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 03:11 AM

That's a great idea! I'm not sure if she'd accept it, but either way I'd love to try this, even just for me! lol!

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 03:16 AM

That's a great idea! I'm not sure if she'd accept it, but either way I'd love to try this, even just for me! lol! I wonder if you could use the bone broth instead of water for extra calcium and other minerals?

4
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on January 17, 2012
at 12:35 AM

Milkshare! Check out EATS ON FEETS on Facebook. You can check out the mom's health status and pasteurize the milk, if that makes you feel safer.

Alternatively, try goat's milk. It's usually tolerated better than cow dairy.

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:52 AM

Thanks for the idea, I hadn't considered a milkshare before. I will definitely check it out. I'll also investigate the goat's milk idea :)

3
B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on January 17, 2012
at 03:00 AM

I had twins and never produced enough milk for both, so I unfortunately had to feed formula. The Weston A. Price Foundation page has a number of home-made formulas that are pretty good, but the ones I used all involved cow or goat's milk. My guess with a two-year-old is that it would be best to keep nursing before bed when you are home, but wean her from the bottle with other care-takers.

The way I weaned my boys off the middle of the night feeding was to slowly decrease the amount in the bottle until it became a "why bother" scenario (around 2 ounces) and they just slept through. I tried this technique with the before bed bottle when they were around 20 months and it worked okay until I reached about 4 ounces, then I had major rebellion! What finally worked was I changed their entire bedtime ritual so that the bottle wasn't right before sleep anymore. Instead it was jammies, bottle, (washcloth teeth cleaning in chair), followed by stories and "saying our thank-yous". Once this was fully ingrained I just skipped the bottle one night and there was no rebellion at all. They were so used to going to sleep after stories and thank yous/good nights that they just went to sleep. We never had another night bottle after that. Maybe changing your bedtime ritual could also help you wean her from care-taker bottle feedings?

3
C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

on January 17, 2012
at 01:17 AM

Not questioning, but are you sure she won't go to sleep without? My almost 2 year old is amazing: if I'm in the house, she knows it, and she knows she gets to nurse before bed. If I'm not home, of if she's staying with the grandparents, she goes to bed fine for whoever is there, no milk needed. Maybe your little one would be ready for that?

Anyway, other than that, I'd say to try goat's milk. You can try the milkshare, as Dragonfly suggested, but I had always heard they gave precedence to infants.

Good luck!

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:49 AM

It is possible, but she's never gone to sleep without it. She does seem pretty attached to it. She's been babysat by her grandparents a couple times a month since she was born, so it's very much a habit that's been engrained in her for being babysat as well. Do you know if goat's milk is constipating? Apparently, in dairy there are chemicals that stimulate the opioid receptors and it sort of 'numbs' the colon, which can lead to constipation in some people. I wonder if that's the same for goat's milk? A milkshare is an interesting idea that I hadn't considered. :) Thanks for your answer!

2
Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:25 AM

Sounds like she's got you pretty well trained... (been there, done that). it can be pretty difficult to change habits once they're ingrained, but one of these days your little one will need to learn to get to sleep all by herself without nursing or a bottle involved. The longer you wait, the harder it's probably going to be. Have you considered switching to just a bottle of water before bed?

I remember when my 9-month old would wake up wanting to nurse in the middle of the night - I'd go in, give him a hug, a drink of water, tell him I loved him, but it was time for him to go back to sleep now, and gently leave the room. It was total hell for a few days and then he got the message, and was able to learn to calm himself and go back to sleep on his own. The key is not letting yourself get too upset by how upset she gets. But it depends on what you're comfortable with. That's what worked for me (I needed to be able to sleep through the night myself or go nuts).

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:48 AM

We cosleep too.

B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on January 17, 2012
at 04:53 PM

I like the bottle of water idea although I imagine it would work best if you slowly diluted whatever she is currently drinking until it is eventually all water.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:40 AM

It is completely normal and healthy for a nine month old to nurse in the middle of the night. This is modified cry it out. Babies under 3 don't "train" adults. They let them know what their needs are in the best way they know how.

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:46 AM

Thanks for your comment. I'm pretty into attachment parenting (the closest to 'primal parenting' I guess) so we cosleep. Even her grandparents cosleep when they babysit. She cosleeps for naps too, so I'm not particularly interested in changing her habits. I think she will change them on her own when she's ready.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on January 17, 2012
at 06:44 AM

I'm all for everyone parenting in the way it's most sustainable for them. I did what I needed to to stay sane, I'm sure what's working for you is equally viable. We all need to just be the best parents we can.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on January 17, 2012
at 06:10 PM

@Heidi - I think your answer about changing the bedtime ritual so that it doesn't involve feeding is spot on. I worried about their teeth being bathed in milk sugars and about their digestive systems working during the night when their brains needed to be busy building neural connections uninhibited. We all worry too much, don't we? Kind of goes with the job I guess.

6ec8d30130a6fb274871314533b5536b

(581)

on January 17, 2012
at 11:23 PM

Babies under 3 are still very intelligent, and I would argue that some in fact DO train adults. Either consciously or unconsciously. I have a friend who has a 2 year old younger sister who is extremely intelligent... she communicates fully, in mostly-full sentences, has a wild imagination, tells stories, asks a lot of intelligent questions, and knows how to get what she wants. I think it's important NOT to underestimate a person, just because they are young. But that's just my two cents. :)

2
737471a5bc1c8b81d968c3f3fcd13b71

on January 17, 2012
at 01:32 AM

Mark's Daily Apple had a post involving fenugreek today, and several moms commented that it really helped increase milk production.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-fenugreek-and-hgh-marathons-and-strength-training-gluten-and-eczema-and-insect-nutrition/#axzz1jftqV21J

Two of the comments: "I used fenugreek early on while nursing both my kids. Took it in pill form but still didn???t like the smell. It did work in terms of boosting milk production" and "I too used fenugreek to boost milk production & it worked a treat. I was threatened with having to formula boost-feed my twins & just one week on the fenugreek improved it enough that we didn???t touch the formula."

Good luck!

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on January 17, 2012
at 02:54 AM

Thanks! That's definitely a great idea if I wanted to pump to supply the milk. I would really like to figure out a solution that doesn't involve pumping, although if that is the only solution that will work then I will do it. She's already 27 months and I really, really want to get pregnant again. I also had a miscarriage that I'm pretty sure was initiated by pumping (long story!) so I'd like to avoid it.

1
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on January 17, 2012
at 11:01 AM

I still nurse down my 2 year old for just about every nap, and at night, but I've noticed that he does okay without that pre-nap infusion when he's with my mom. I stressed over this a lot too, and then one day we just had to wing it and he was fine. I think babies and toddlers are smart enough to expect different things from different people.

She shares her cups of herbal tea with him, and will put whatever she is having in his sippy cup with a little cold water to make it the right temperature and he loves it. Chamomile tea is great for getting kids to sleep as long as they don't have a daisy allergy, so that might be a good choice for a bottle.

Her system for actually getting him down for his nap is to provide him with a lot of snacks like avocado and yogurt, so he's not going to be hungry, and then she does this amazing thing where she rubs the top of his head lightly until he's practically in a hypnotic state, and then he'll just lie down in her lap and doze off.

I'm not sure what part of the cow's milk was upsetting your baby's stomach, but I have on occasion resorted to putting an ounce or two of heavy cream in a bottle and he realllly liked that.

1
2f931662684a7747be36255c8b486228

(1049)

on January 17, 2012
at 05:50 AM

Apart from what you give her, you may want to read up a bit on how you give it to her. I never understood how the bottle or pacifier could aid in dental problems and even though I nursed my daughter until she was 20 months, she did get a bottle (no pacifier). I now regret ever giving her a bottle. I'm sure a sippy cup is better though maybe not much. It is the pushing action of the toungue (typical of nursing) that gives the teeth their eventual shape whilst what damages them is the sucking (typical of the bottle). I know my dental arch has narrowed considerably (an age related issue) and I also know it is due to having quit smoking 10 yrs ago which led to a nervous habit of sucking...on nothing...just the inside of my mouth. My daughter's arch is narrow and we will soon have to deal with this. an intersting fb page...http://www.facebook.com/YCrookedTeeth I'm sure the web site has an article of nursing versus bottlefed babies and teeth.

the previous response about weaning from the bottle sounds like a great idea. (the timing factor) Another thing that works is diluting whatever is in the bottle with water...more each day. This removes some of the appeal since eventually what is in there is just water.

6ec8d30130a6fb274871314533b5536b

(581)

on January 17, 2012
at 11:20 PM

How odd! I've never heard of that dental problem. I was bottle-fed because I was born premature and my mother was unable to produce milk for me. I also suck my thumb until I was about 5... and I never needed any braces or retainers, etc, and have naturally perfect teeth. I am very intrigued by this theory, and I was wondering... if it is the sucking that damages the teeth, then why don't people have that same problem from breastfeeding? Don't babies also suck a mother's nipple the way they suck a bottle's nipple? I ask because I don't have children, but plan on having some someday. Thanks!

2f931662684a7747be36255c8b486228

(1049)

on January 19, 2012
at 12:39 AM

NO, they actually push with their tongues...this pushing force against the gums (and breast) help form the teeth that will come. One of the reasons why expressing milk with a pump can be so difficult...and also painful, it is based on a kind of pulling (or sucking) motion. If you express manualy..there is only pushing (or squeezing). I actually realized all of this too late, myself. But the knowledge came in very handy when I decided to re-lactate later on.

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