1

votes

Low carb and low thyroid symptoms

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created November 03, 2012 at 10:33 PM

Hi I've been playing with the paleo diet for a year now and it resonates with my beliefs on the healthy diet principles etc. having said that I went low carb (around 50gm/day)a few months ago in an attempt to lose around 3-5kgs of unwanted fat. I started sprint training 2x week lift heavy 3x and did some walking. My basal body temp dropped to 35.5 degrees most mornings got sluggish and put ON weight. Urine tests revealed ketones, protein urobilonogen? In my urine. Does that mean I'm in a catabolic state. I had a few days of carbing up (with fruit sweet potato and quinoa) and woke today to basal temp 36.3 degrees and lost 1.2kgs. Thoughts suggestions etc. I'm concerned I'm breaking down! Other symptoms anxiety, afternoon tiredness headaches chronic sinusitis asthma. I want to stay paleo but am confused. I am a 41 year old woman nothing exceptional other than love exercising in moderation at 23% body fat 5ft 3" at 56kgs,(126lbs)?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 08, 2012
at 02:00 PM

I can't make all the points in just 600 characters; But for anybody who is interested in getting to the bottom of this issue, I HIGHLY recommend this link: http://www.jackkruse.com/brain-gut-12-dare-to-disagree/ . It discusses my argument in great length and is probably one of the best articles on this subject that I've ever read. Gl.

141171c0810650168d82601d85cfa5a3

(415)

on November 08, 2012
at 10:21 AM

That abstract suggests that those on high carb diets would be more likely to become deficient in iodine that those on low carb diets. Dr. Rosedale did a study showing that t3 was lower on low carb but so was TSH. If the body was trying to create more t3, TSH would be high. This shows that the downregulation of t3 is purposeful and not the result of a deficiency.

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on November 04, 2012
at 05:53 PM

That's about 35 grams of carbs, enough to put you in ketosis. Double or triple your potatoes. Or add yams. Get it to about 75 grams. Learn carb counting. Much maligned by those who promote Paleo. Most just plunge right in never learning whether there are any carbs in non-starchy vegetables. Or thinking a piece of potato will add pounds.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:28 PM

Dr. Brownstein has some books written on iodine/potassium iodide and hypothyroidism. Jack Kruse also talks a lot about the benefits of seafood in a diet he calls Epi-Paleo.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:24 PM

I can conclude that decreasing carbs will lower t3. I can also argue that many of our paleolithic ancestors didn't eat a carbheavy diet for the majority of the year, especially during ice ages, but their bone structures still show an adequate hormone panel. That means there is another way to increase thyroid function other than carbs necessarily. Since thyroid hormones are literally made of iodine, and from studying Dr. Brownstein and Dr. Kruse it's really not a stretch to say that iodine would probably help YOU, even though it doesn't necessarily logically conclude from the supplied abstract.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:17 PM

I should've clarified that Iodine is required by the body for the synthesis of the thyroid hormones, thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3). You said "With less carbs the thyroid requires/uses less iodine" but in actuality it Sythesizes less iodine. The better question is how did our paleolithic ancestors get adequate t3/t4 for a healthy hormone panel on a low carb diet, which they ate predominately for at least the winter months/ice ages. I propose seafood, rich in the iodine and selenium required for a healthy thyroid. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=69

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:16 PM

Sorry, the link got cut off. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=69

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:15 PM

I should've clarified that Iodine, a trace mineral, is required by the body for the synthesis of the thyroid hormones, thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3). You said "With less carbs the thyroid requires/uses less iodine" but in actuality it Sythesizes less iodine. The better question is how did our paleolithic ancestors get adequate t3/t4 for a healthy hormone panel on a low carb diet, which they ate predominately for at least the winter months/ice ages. I propose seafood, rich in the iodine and selenium required for a healthy thyroid. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&db

Cfdbf3485f0bac5895f86d74afd9fac0

(98)

on November 04, 2012
at 08:14 AM

that is not that much

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 04, 2012
at 03:23 AM

here's a possible theory; low thyroid=slower metabolism. slower metabolism=lower stomach acid. lower stomach acid=impaired digestion. impaired digestion=weight loss/"more food required". also, lower stomach acid=more h.pylori. more h.pylori=lower stomach acid. & the cycle continues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achlorhydria

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on November 04, 2012
at 03:21 AM

^ What daz said.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 04, 2012
at 03:21 AM

here's a possible theory; low thyroid=slower metabolism. slower metabolism=lower stomach acid. lower stomach acid=impaired digestion. impaired digestion=weight loss/"more food required". also, lower stomach acid=more h.pylori. more h.pylori=lower stomach acid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achlorhydria

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on November 04, 2012
at 03:21 AM

Maybe you should list the rest of your diet including protein and fat intake. Many times the symptoms you report can be attributed to low calorie. It's not all about the carbs.....anytime your losing weight you are in a catabolic state (least more so than anabolic, but lets not confuse things).

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 04, 2012
at 02:51 AM

i have read that abstract before, i would love to see the full study. my interpretation of the abstract differs from yours. To me, it is just saying that with more carbs the thyroid requires/uses more Iodine and T3 is raised (not sure which comes first). With less carbs the thyroid requires/uses less iodine and T3 is lowered (not sure which comes first). You cannot conclude from the abstract that increasing Iodine will raise T3. The abstract backs the pov of Ron Rosedale & alike who argue that low T3 is not only normal but optimal.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 04, 2012
at 02:49 AM

i have read that abstract before, i would love to see the full study. my interpretation of the abstract differs from yours. To me, it is just saying that with more carbs the thyroid requires/uses more Iodine and raises T3 (not sure which comes first). With less carbs the thyroid requires/uses less iodine and lowers T3 (not sure which comes first). You cannot conclude from the abstract that increasing Iodine will raise T3. The abstract backs the pov of Ron Rosedale & alike who argue that low T3 is not only normal but optimal.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 03, 2012
at 11:08 PM

"does anyone know if low thyroid can lead to being underweight and having difficulty gaining weight?" I'd be interested in this also if anyone has anything definitive to say on the subject.

C250cd5da05ca54ad3133630ff614573

(175)

on November 03, 2012
at 10:46 PM

Ray Peat is the expert on thyroid. Eliminating all significant sources of polyunsaturated fats is the first step to solve it.

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5 Answers

4
Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 03, 2012
at 10:56 PM

First off I want to start by saying, Excellent Question! I am about to quote the abstract of a published article I will then cite.

An increased iodine requirement as a result of significant changes in human nutrition rather than a decreased environmental iodine supply is suggested to represent the main cause of the iodine deficiency disorders (IDD). The pathomechanism proposed is based on the fact that serum concentrations of thyroid hormones, especially of trijodothyronine (T3), are dependent on the amount of dietary carbohydrate. High-carbohydrate diets are associated with significantly higher serum T3 concentrations, compared with very low-carbohydrate diets. While our Paleolithic ancestors subsisted on a very low carbohydrate/high protein diet, the agricultural revolution about 10,000 years ago brought about a significant increase in dietary carbohydrate. These nutritional changes have increased T3 levels significantly. Higher T3 levels are associated with an enhanced T3 production and an increased iodine requirement. The higher iodine requirement exceeds the availability of iodine from environmental sources in many regions of the world, resulting in the development of IDD.

Nutrition, evolution and thyroid hormone levels ??? a link to iodine deficiency disorders?

Basically t3 will either be produced with adequate carb intake or adequate dietary iodine. So if you want to follow a ketogenic(sp?) diet, consider taking either an iodine/potassium iodide/iodoral supplement OR consider eating more seafood (which is naturally very rich in iodine).

PS If you supplement instead of just eating more seafood (oysters especially), then make sure and supplement with selenium also (According to most doctors, notably Dr. Brownstein).

Hope I helped, -Stephen!

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:15 PM

I should've clarified that Iodine, a trace mineral, is required by the body for the synthesis of the thyroid hormones, thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3). You said "With less carbs the thyroid requires/uses less iodine" but in actuality it Sythesizes less iodine. The better question is how did our paleolithic ancestors get adequate t3/t4 for a healthy hormone panel on a low carb diet, which they ate predominately for at least the winter months/ice ages. I propose seafood, rich in the iodine and selenium required for a healthy thyroid. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&db

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:17 PM

I should've clarified that Iodine is required by the body for the synthesis of the thyroid hormones, thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3). You said "With less carbs the thyroid requires/uses less iodine" but in actuality it Sythesizes less iodine. The better question is how did our paleolithic ancestors get adequate t3/t4 for a healthy hormone panel on a low carb diet, which they ate predominately for at least the winter months/ice ages. I propose seafood, rich in the iodine and selenium required for a healthy thyroid. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=69

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 04, 2012
at 02:51 AM

i have read that abstract before, i would love to see the full study. my interpretation of the abstract differs from yours. To me, it is just saying that with more carbs the thyroid requires/uses more Iodine and T3 is raised (not sure which comes first). With less carbs the thyroid requires/uses less iodine and T3 is lowered (not sure which comes first). You cannot conclude from the abstract that increasing Iodine will raise T3. The abstract backs the pov of Ron Rosedale & alike who argue that low T3 is not only normal but optimal.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:28 PM

Dr. Brownstein has some books written on iodine/potassium iodide and hypothyroidism. Jack Kruse also talks a lot about the benefits of seafood in a diet he calls Epi-Paleo.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:24 PM

I can conclude that decreasing carbs will lower t3. I can also argue that many of our paleolithic ancestors didn't eat a carbheavy diet for the majority of the year, especially during ice ages, but their bone structures still show an adequate hormone panel. That means there is another way to increase thyroid function other than carbs necessarily. Since thyroid hormones are literally made of iodine, and from studying Dr. Brownstein and Dr. Kruse it's really not a stretch to say that iodine would probably help YOU, even though it doesn't necessarily logically conclude from the supplied abstract.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on November 04, 2012
at 03:21 AM

^ What daz said.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 04, 2012
at 02:49 AM

i have read that abstract before, i would love to see the full study. my interpretation of the abstract differs from yours. To me, it is just saying that with more carbs the thyroid requires/uses more Iodine and raises T3 (not sure which comes first). With less carbs the thyroid requires/uses less iodine and lowers T3 (not sure which comes first). You cannot conclude from the abstract that increasing Iodine will raise T3. The abstract backs the pov of Ron Rosedale & alike who argue that low T3 is not only normal but optimal.

141171c0810650168d82601d85cfa5a3

(415)

on November 08, 2012
at 10:21 AM

That abstract suggests that those on high carb diets would be more likely to become deficient in iodine that those on low carb diets. Dr. Rosedale did a study showing that t3 was lower on low carb but so was TSH. If the body was trying to create more t3, TSH would be high. This shows that the downregulation of t3 is purposeful and not the result of a deficiency.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 08, 2012
at 02:00 PM

I can't make all the points in just 600 characters; But for anybody who is interested in getting to the bottom of this issue, I HIGHLY recommend this link: http://www.jackkruse.com/brain-gut-12-dare-to-disagree/ . It discusses my argument in great length and is probably one of the best articles on this subject that I've ever read. Gl.

2
F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on November 08, 2012
at 12:28 AM

You're overtraining, Lisa. Classic symptoms. Just walk for a few weeks or however long it takes for you to regain your health.

Also, there isn't a shred of evidence that lower T3 levels associated with low-carb diets has any adverse effect. It's not something you need to worry about.

0
5dd7f74163234a2af803eef553bcb413

on November 04, 2012
at 07:28 AM

thank you for your thoughts. I can't get my head around the conflicting info re PUFA info and low carb as well as the higher carb link with higher T3 levels. I guess I am just going from personal experience. I was certain that after reading Nora gedgaudas that carbs were not necessary for human nutrition but it appears I need them In response to how much i was eating here is an example eating day

AM 2 eggs cooked in coconut oil 50 gm smoked salmon handful of baby spinach

mid morning

100gm turkey bake including green veggies such as celery, zucchini green beans

Lunch 120gm chicken salad with heaps lettuce, tomato, capsicum splosh of olive oil dressing

Pm tea 1/2 - 1 cup blueberries with coconut yoghurt and handful of nuts

Dinner 100-150gm lean protein with stirfry green leafy veggies 100gm sweet potato as a post workout meal

I have been supplementing with iodine (did the patch test and my body SUCKED it up in 2 hours) so Lugols iodine 3 drops daily. about to supplement with sublingual selenium as well. Am taking adrenal/thyroid support herbs Interestingly I was doing all this but it wasn't until I had a big carb up few days that my basal temp started to rise..

Cfdbf3485f0bac5895f86d74afd9fac0

(98)

on November 04, 2012
at 08:14 AM

that is not that much

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on November 04, 2012
at 05:53 PM

That's about 35 grams of carbs, enough to put you in ketosis. Double or triple your potatoes. Or add yams. Get it to about 75 grams. Learn carb counting. Much maligned by those who promote Paleo. Most just plunge right in never learning whether there are any carbs in non-starchy vegetables. Or thinking a piece of potato will add pounds.

0
Edeb0e2a3930f2e555d28cf978ac8fb7

(13)

on November 03, 2012
at 11:05 PM

I've noticed the same thing going low carb, so I will be watching this. Sorry for not making a new thread, but does anyone know if low thyroid can lead to being underweight and having difficulty gaining weight?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 04, 2012
at 04:16 PM

Sorry, the link got cut off. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=69

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 04, 2012
at 03:21 AM

here's a possible theory; low thyroid=slower metabolism. slower metabolism=lower stomach acid. lower stomach acid=impaired digestion. impaired digestion=weight loss/"more food required". also, lower stomach acid=more h.pylori. more h.pylori=lower stomach acid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achlorhydria

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 04, 2012
at 03:23 AM

here's a possible theory; low thyroid=slower metabolism. slower metabolism=lower stomach acid. lower stomach acid=impaired digestion. impaired digestion=weight loss/"more food required". also, lower stomach acid=more h.pylori. more h.pylori=lower stomach acid. & the cycle continues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achlorhydria

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 03, 2012
at 11:08 PM

"does anyone know if low thyroid can lead to being underweight and having difficulty gaining weight?" I'd be interested in this also if anyone has anything definitive to say on the subject.

-3
17ece64f2798e105da1e805a30a8fa49

on November 04, 2012
at 02:03 AM

Simple answer: Paleo is a fucked up diet ad will fuck u up.

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