2

votes

Is the idea of an endocrine system domino effect woo woo or is it backed by science?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 23, 2011 at 7:58 AM

I've had several holistic practitioners mention to me that if my thyroid was having problems, then I was guaranteed to have adrenal problems, and this does seem to have been true with me, but seems like a somewhat convenient explanation. The order I've been given for the glandular dominoes is adrenal glands, thyroid, thymus, ovaries. I know there are more glands in the system that weren't mentioned, maybe it is just these that are supposed to impact each other so profoundly.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on October 10, 2011
at 08:58 AM

Thank you for protecting our country and keeping us safe, akman. I wonder if beyond the mental stress (combat, self preservation, etc) if something about active duty in war zones affects health directly -- e.g. rabies vaccines (my niece had it so I looked it up AWFUL STUFF), travel vaccines (mercury/thimerosol), sleep deprivation, exposure chemicals similar to agent orange (nerve toxin), etc -- outside of the packaged, processed foods... ???! I did my residency at the VA San Diego but I've heard the extent of injuries now (like you describe) are far worse than what I saw.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 10, 2011
at 12:35 AM

My naturopath started me on something called Simplex F by Standard Process, which has small amount of bovine glandulars, but that may or may not be what you need, so see your doc first. In the meantime, bone broth, unrefined sea salt, beef liver, chicken hearts, magnesium, vitamin c, b vitamins, sleep, and sunlight (or a little tanning bed time), are all good places to start.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on October 09, 2011
at 11:27 PM

suggestions on where to start? i am finally 'breaking down' and going to the doctor this week. i dont even kno where to start...

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 09, 2011
at 08:40 PM

The good news is, if you support the rest of the system, the ovaries will be recover too.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 09, 2011
at 07:23 PM

Perhaps because of calorie restriction then. Its known that it may promote healing.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on October 09, 2011
at 04:47 PM

um literature, i study starvation not obesity, anorexics dont get sick...personal experience. they do however ALWAYS get sick once they gain weight and start recovery

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on October 09, 2011
at 04:45 PM

add 2 more, same thing happened to my brothers post military...

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on October 09, 2011
at 04:44 PM

oye ve, if it ends in the ovaries then i am screwed...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on October 09, 2011
at 01:03 AM

You would've found Dr. Miller eventually on my blog **ahaaaaha!** Your question is very VERY excellent!!! I'm sorry about the rant -- I get upset that I have to treat myself instead of being able to trust the medical and dental establishments to fix it...

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 08, 2011
at 05:29 AM

http://www.donaldmiller.com/ (thank you Grace) this guy works in the VA hospital in Seattle, maybe there is hope his ideas could spread and help vets transition.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 08, 2011
at 05:27 AM

Oooh! He's in my 'hood! Cool.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 24, 2011
at 12:41 PM

Any info on "anorexics never get sick" claim ?

020053fd576e93d1d8fa20bfb10979b9

(410)

on September 24, 2011
at 12:04 PM

because they die first...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:54 PM

Calorie restriction is my guess - extensive autophagy and not enough resources for other pathogens like iron and tryptophan.

A82d8cbea04392ebcb1a819bddc4a259

(190)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:05 PM

Key points right here ;). If you try to 'work on' the glands individually, you will make little impact or could imbalance another. Stress on the physical, mental and emotional bodies are all significant.

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on September 23, 2011
at 05:40 PM

interesting... i do wonder why anorexics never get sick though....

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:17 AM

...and I'm opening the bottle of Vit. C right now.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:14 AM

Looks like two of my favorite things, ashwagandha and Siberian ginseng work their magic on that whole system.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:14 AM

OFC, it doesn't finish there...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:13 AM

Now, I don't have to repeat it all over again, right ? But in case people didn't notice --> C megadose

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:12 AM

Yes, its the same thing. From wiki "The hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA or HTPA axis)," where do you put T is not that important :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:11 AM

For quick info check out this intervew: http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/cortisolzava.html and this quick reference: http://wss.nourishingconnections.org/Education/Thyroid%20Adrenal%20Coonection.doc

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:10 AM

Found HPA axis, looks like it might be the same thing, minus a T for thyroid maybe?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:08 AM

Thanks! Off to google HPAT axis....

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7 Answers

3
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 08:53 AM

Not a woo woo.

As for adrenal-tyroid connection:

Excess cortisol leads (chronically) to less TSH which means less T3 (this also rises rT3). If cortisol is chronically elevated, lower thyroid hormones are seen as body stress which further amplifes cortisol secretion. This depletes adrenals of Vitamin C which is secreted in parallel with adrenalin and is also used to make it. This in turn further diminish your immune system as white blood cells need constant supply of C to fight infections. This in turn leads to chronic infections, increased xenobiotic metabolism (hence liver suffers), decreased dopamine synthesis as vitamin C is needed for it, reduced wound healing etc...

Its all connected, and while body can tollerate short duration stress and even thrive on it (hormesis) longer insults gradually destroy you.

Or something like that.... :) Inform yourself about HPAT axis

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:14 AM

OFC, it doesn't finish there...

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:08 AM

Thanks! Off to google HPAT axis....

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:17 AM

...and I'm opening the bottle of Vit. C right now.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:10 AM

Found HPA axis, looks like it might be the same thing, minus a T for thyroid maybe?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:14 AM

Looks like two of my favorite things, ashwagandha and Siberian ginseng work their magic on that whole system.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:11 AM

For quick info check out this intervew: http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/cortisolzava.html and this quick reference: http://wss.nourishingconnections.org/Education/Thyroid%20Adrenal%20Coonection.doc

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:13 AM

Now, I don't have to repeat it all over again, right ? But in case people didn't notice --> C megadose

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on September 23, 2011
at 05:40 PM

interesting... i do wonder why anorexics never get sick though....

020053fd576e93d1d8fa20bfb10979b9

(410)

on September 24, 2011
at 12:04 PM

because they die first...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 09:12 AM

Yes, its the same thing. From wiki "The hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA or HTPA axis)," where do you put T is not that important :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 24, 2011
at 12:41 PM

Any info on "anorexics never get sick" claim ?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:54 PM

Calorie restriction is my guess - extensive autophagy and not enough resources for other pathogens like iron and tryptophan.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 09, 2011
at 07:23 PM

Perhaps because of calorie restriction then. Its known that it may promote healing.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on October 09, 2011
at 04:47 PM

um literature, i study starvation not obesity, anorexics dont get sick...personal experience. they do however ALWAYS get sick once they gain weight and start recovery

2
3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on October 08, 2011
at 04:05 AM

Concur with all the above. NOT WOO WOO.

See. Medical schools are dictated by Big Pharma, this has been the case since the turn of the 20th century... (and will likely continue unless sheeple get tired of being frazzled, fat, fried and fatigued).

99.9% of pharmaceuticals do not work to reverse disase progression.

What works? (besides paleohackers???!!!)

Med schools only have treatments for diseases. No Pharma treatment, no disease. The only 'drug' for adrenal fatigue is hydrocortisone and other mineralocorticoid derivatives. Just like the heart can have 'failure/congestion', a brain/dementia and the thyroid/'hypo', the adrenals can comitantly fail. And they do. It's epidemic. I'm living it, you're living, no?

The making of vaccines and pharmaceuticals are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LUCRATIVE you have no idea, kitten. Trumps Detroit/automakers. This is why Pharma lobbyists will have emplyoment forevah. Once you have the government in your hands, U.S. treasury is unlimited. Esp unlimited if people remain 'sick'. There is NO INCENTIVE FOR PEOPLE TO BE HAPPY, THIN, AND HEALTHY ON A NATIONAL LEVEL. The doctors and dentists have NO IDEA their prescriptions for daily USDA 6-11 servings of healthywholediseasegrains, saturophobia and dental amalgams are killing adrenals, guts, brains, hearts, and bodies.

Read this cardiothoracic cardiologist and professor Dr. Miller MD whose eyes are OPEN/AWARE, and he no longer takes the Soma or drinks the Koolaid: http://www.donaldmiller.com/

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on October 09, 2011
at 01:03 AM

You would've found Dr. Miller eventually on my blog **ahaaaaha!** Your question is very VERY excellent!!! I'm sorry about the rant -- I get upset that I have to treat myself instead of being able to trust the medical and dental establishments to fix it...

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 08, 2011
at 05:27 AM

Oooh! He's in my 'hood! Cool.

2
A82d8cbea04392ebcb1a819bddc4a259

(190)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:17 PM

No woo woo. Very significant.

Leaky gut is a major factor in the 'fix' for this. Stress reduction for both physical (mainly food stressors) and mental/emotional (Hypothalamus/Pituitary Axis).

HPA breaks down into major systems including very important function of the pancreas, adrenal, thryoid and gonads. The neuroendocrine response is of consequence to imbalance and overall health.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic%E2%80%93pituitary%E2%80%93adrenal_axis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal_axis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid_axis

2
61a27a8b7ec2264b1821923b271eaf54

(3175)

on September 23, 2011
at 06:09 PM

I'm retired from the military. Me, and many of my fellow vets, when leaving the military end up in terrible health within a few years. I originally thought it was due to less regimented exercise and nutrition, but have since changed my mind. I now think this phenomenon is caused by a buildup of cortisol from the stress of leaving the safety of the herd (the military) and venturing into uncharted territory (a real job, money worries, no safety net). This leads to a hormonal cascade--leptin resistance, high TSH, diabetes, arthritis, high LDL, high trigs, on and on...full-blown metabolic syndrome! Couple this with SAD and treatment of each problem with medicine and CW and you are looking at an early death.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on October 09, 2011
at 04:45 PM

add 2 more, same thing happened to my brothers post military...

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 08, 2011
at 05:29 AM

http://www.donaldmiller.com/ (thank you Grace) this guy works in the VA hospital in Seattle, maybe there is hope his ideas could spread and help vets transition.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on October 10, 2011
at 08:58 AM

Thank you for protecting our country and keeping us safe, akman. I wonder if beyond the mental stress (combat, self preservation, etc) if something about active duty in war zones affects health directly -- e.g. rabies vaccines (my niece had it so I looked it up AWFUL STUFF), travel vaccines (mercury/thimerosol), sleep deprivation, exposure chemicals similar to agent orange (nerve toxin), etc -- outside of the packaged, processed foods... ???! I did my residency at the VA San Diego but I've heard the extent of injuries now (like you describe) are far worse than what I saw.

2
957a563c7e4a165663fd3c71207c39da

on September 23, 2011
at 09:03 AM

It is common for those with either adrenal or thyroid issues to have issues with both glands. There is a cascade of hormones that starts with cholesterol which is the building block for hormones - so if there's an issue upstream, then this can impact different glands downstream. Also, sufficient cortisol is needed to help the T3 get in to the relevant tissues where it's used (which is pretty much the entire body).

That order you've been given is what I'm aware of as far as the order in which to treat the issues, I've been treating adrenals and thyroid for myself for a few years now and I'm on a forum where this is the general consensus. It's seen as a strain on the adrenals to try to supplement thyroid hormone without first supporting the adrenals. Adrenal support comes in different forms: hydrocortisone (if you aren't producing an optimal level of cortisol yourself) - this is controversial though as endcrinologists will only allow this if you have Addison's; other options are adaptogen herbs, Vit C, B5 (pantothenic acid), licorice root, adrenal glandular extract.

1
Medium avatar

on September 23, 2011
at 05:35 PM

I think it's actually pretty common for the major hormonal cascades originating from the hypothalamus to become interrupted, usually by a real or perceived threat of energy scarcity. This probably occurs as a result of too little leptin being received by the hypothalamus. It can basically lead to a significant reduction in the function of the pituitary, thyroid, and gonads.

A82d8cbea04392ebcb1a819bddc4a259

(190)

on September 23, 2011
at 07:05 PM

Key points right here ;). If you try to 'work on' the glands individually, you will make little impact or could imbalance another. Stress on the physical, mental and emotional bodies are all significant.

1
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on September 23, 2011
at 05:24 PM

It's not woo woo, but not really much supported by traditional endocrinologists in the way that they treat problems. They all know everything is related, and that a change in one area can affect a change in another. (If not sure, go ask them at a party.) Unfortunately, they tend to test and treat only one area at a time.

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