4

votes

hormone optimization

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 02, 2011 at 3:42 AM

When you get your Vitamin D level checked what other labs do you ask your doc to run? Do your docs even routinely screen you after the levels are rechecked?

6e01c5e248d6a30bb7cb07d536aaf5b6

(193)

on May 02, 2011
at 11:31 PM

Dr. K, isn't IGF-1 a major contributor to acne in those who are prone to breakout? how do we strike a balance here?

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on March 27, 2011
at 07:51 AM

There are a bunch of us who have taken functional blood chemistry courses and can let you know if your ranges fall within functional ranges or not based on our assessment forms. Medical ranges are to tell you if you have a disease or are qualified for medical treatment but don't usually tell you if your system just looks like it's off or heading towards a problem/has impaired function. Feel free to get in touch if you ever need more help.

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on March 27, 2011
at 07:49 AM

Sorry, realizing my comment was a bit redundant to my respons ;o/

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on March 27, 2011
at 07:48 AM

You can order a finger-prick at home Vitamin D test for like $50-60. I'd definitely take the test to see where you're at. Some fermented cod liver oil may be a good idea- green pastures has some good stuff.

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on March 27, 2011
at 07:46 AM

Thanks! I definitely am pretty busy for it and as a moderater on the forum on Robb Wolf's site, that's my priority when I do have time to do some trolling and answering ?s etc. Catch me over there if you like!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on March 22, 2011
at 02:04 AM

Kaz, That is a great chart. I will be interested in hearing your experimentation outcomes in the future. All bio labs are SAD based I have found and therefore explicably not applicable. Would be neat to see labs where based on endocrine values which are synced well to sunlight/darkness, paleo diet and subsequent optimal diurnal/circadian biorhythms.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on March 17, 2011
at 01:38 AM

Diane! Would love to see you post more often here! But I know you have a busy schedule. ;)

9dd74d3941535d0aaa2c8d3cf454fb7e

on March 05, 2011
at 04:27 PM

Dr. K, sincerely appreciate your comment, although am not trying to raise IGF-1 for muscle mass reasons, trying instead to influence testosterone metabolic pathways. Does a paleo diet effect IGFBP-3/IGF-1 ratios in your experience? For those interested, here is a nice 2 page database of (undoubtedly SAD based) IGF-1 ranges by age/sex: http://www.hsc.wvu.edu/som/cmed/c8/results/laboratoryTests/pdfs/IGF-1%20%28All%29.pdf

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 05, 2011
at 02:47 AM

Glucocorticoids especially cortisol, also inhibit vitamin D-mediated intestinal calcium uptake, retard the rate of wound healing, and interfere with the rate of linear growth.......this is why so many who have high blood sugars or are high levels of cortisol (insomniacs and sleep apnea folks) tend ot have lower levels of vitamin D levels.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 05, 2011
at 02:35 AM

The reason why Kaz if youre interested is that eating paleo inhibits somatostatin release from D cells in the gut thereby allowing growth Hormone to have a greater effect in building muscle via its effect of increasing IGF1 across the board. We look for this effect in the first three months after starting paleo as a sign that it works. In men the combo with testosterone optimization also extends IGF 1 levels. I have seen triples of IGF1 levels with paleo diet changes alone

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 04, 2011
at 11:18 PM

Love Kaz's statement here because it mirrors clinical effects I have seen in hundreds of folks.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 04, 2011
at 11:17 PM

i like dexter advice and I would tell you to add a hormone panel to it......problem is you need someone to intrepret it and treat what you need. Good Luck and dont give up

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 04, 2011
at 11:16 PM

I have no specific info on psorasis and D but we do know that that skin condition is due to a very fast turnover thru the cell cycle so any organ undergoing quick replacement should have higher replacement costs so i could easily see biologically why a higher level would help.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 04, 2011
at 11:13 PM

70 ng/ml is a nice place to be. I shoot for 60-100 for my folks The places we have found the vitamin D receptor has really changed the way we view this hormone. Its a very easy one to test and optimize but it needs to be followed for two yrs because at that time peoples receptors become saturated and then their requirements tend to level off.

Bad3a78e228c67a7513c28f17c36b3cf

(1387)

on March 03, 2011
at 02:46 AM

Dexter, thanks for the tip. Good to know. I'll probably see what I can get my doctor to order first.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 02, 2011
at 03:53 PM

Kate, I have used AnyLabsNow There is a location in Alexandria http://www.anylabtestnow.com/Find_Us.aspx#VA You get your results by mail and you must be somewhat knowlegeable in what the results may say regarding lipid profiles. The one test they do not run is a NMR blood profile that gives the percentage of Large bouyant and small dense LDL particles. They do that with a VAP test or a new test that is a Lipoprotein particle profile. You pay for these tests as your insurance, if any, is not involved.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 02, 2011
at 09:58 AM

Most recently, I read about nutrition pioneers Drs Mellanby discovery of D3 and the relationship to ricketts and dental caries at Dr Guyenet's blog http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-tooth-decay-reversal-diet.htmlwholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/ and http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=mellanbywholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/ I am sure it is the lack of wheat, sugar and the D3 in our diet makes for strong enamal. I think it was WAP where I first read about the relationship of D3 and dental a number of years ago. Our D3 levels are 70ng/mL

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 02, 2011
at 09:51 AM

Most recently, I read about nutrition pioneers Drs Mellanby discovery of D3 and the relationship to ricketts and dental caries at Dr Guyenet's blog wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/… and wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/… I am sure it is the lack of wheat, sugar and the D3 in our diet makes for strong enamal. I think it was WAP where I first read about the relationship of D3 and dental a number of years ago. Our D3 levels are mid 70ng/mL

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 02, 2011
at 09:49 AM

Most recently, I read about nutrition pioneers Drs Mellanby discovery of D3 and the relationship to ricketts and dental caries at Dr Guyenet's blog http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/preventing-tooth-decay.html and http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-tooth-decay-reversal-diet.html I am sure it is the lack of wheat, sugar and the D3 in our diet makes for strong enamal. I think it was WAP where I first read about the relationship of D3 and dental a number of years ago.

1c08a5addd6e17a59a8622fdf36b19c5

(20)

on March 02, 2011
at 04:46 AM

I guess I should add that my labs tested normal for VitD so I am not sure if the norm is really the norm.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 02, 2011
at 04:15 AM

every ask why???

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 02, 2011
at 03:43 AM

That system runs on the NF Kappa Beta system. Basically the alarm system for the cells immune system. When bad stuff is getting ready to happen to the cell.......NF Kappa Beta responds to that Emergency call. What NF Kappa does at times can be good or it can be real bad. Most often its bad. It is the signal that sets of programmed cell death called Apoptosis. Its the process found in all cancers. Its found in post cardiac events, DVTs, and any other bad disease you can imagine. Vitamin D also decrease TNF-beta.....another bad actor

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 02, 2011
at 03:43 AM

Vitamin D lowers the main cause of inflammation that underpins every human disease known to man. Vitamin D deficiency has been associated with numerous autoimmune diseases in the scientific literature. Vitamin D plays an important role in balancing the Th1 (cell-mediated) and Th2 (humoral) arms of the immune system. It does this by influencing T-regulatory (Th3) cells, which govern the expression and differentiation of Th1 and Th2 cells.

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5 Answers

1
9dd74d3941535d0aaa2c8d3cf454fb7e

on March 03, 2011
at 12:53 AM

I test 25(OH) D3, total serum testosterone, SHBG, estradiol and IGF-1 three or four times a year. Try to time one of them for end September when my naturally produced 25(OH) D3 should be at the highest level my body is willing to produce (out in the sun for 20 minutes around solar noon most days with > 40% skin exposure).

Have only been paleo for about a year, and still working on eliminating vegetable/seed oils, but have seen about a 30% increase in IGF-1 comparing w/ and w/o paleo. When adding a GH secretagogue, with paleo, and MDA Primal blueprint style workouts/frequency (sprints session once a week, lift heavy once a week) I have achieved IGF-1 levels at the median for an 18 year old male, despite being in my mid 40s.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 05, 2011
at 02:35 AM

The reason why Kaz if youre interested is that eating paleo inhibits somatostatin release from D cells in the gut thereby allowing growth Hormone to have a greater effect in building muscle via its effect of increasing IGF1 across the board. We look for this effect in the first three months after starting paleo as a sign that it works. In men the combo with testosterone optimization also extends IGF 1 levels. I have seen triples of IGF1 levels with paleo diet changes alone

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 04, 2011
at 11:18 PM

Love Kaz's statement here because it mirrors clinical effects I have seen in hundreds of folks.

9dd74d3941535d0aaa2c8d3cf454fb7e

on March 05, 2011
at 04:27 PM

Dr. K, sincerely appreciate your comment, although am not trying to raise IGF-1 for muscle mass reasons, trying instead to influence testosterone metabolic pathways. Does a paleo diet effect IGFBP-3/IGF-1 ratios in your experience? For those interested, here is a nice 2 page database of (undoubtedly SAD based) IGF-1 ranges by age/sex: http://www.hsc.wvu.edu/som/cmed/c8/results/laboratoryTests/pdfs/IGF-1%20%28All%29.pdf

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on March 22, 2011
at 02:04 AM

Kaz, That is a great chart. I will be interested in hearing your experimentation outcomes in the future. All bio labs are SAD based I have found and therefore explicably not applicable. Would be neat to see labs where based on endocrine values which are synced well to sunlight/darkness, paleo diet and subsequent optimal diurnal/circadian biorhythms.

6e01c5e248d6a30bb7cb07d536aaf5b6

(193)

on May 02, 2011
at 11:31 PM

Dr. K, isn't IGF-1 a major contributor to acne in those who are prone to breakout? how do we strike a balance here?

1
1c08a5addd6e17a59a8622fdf36b19c5

on March 02, 2011
at 04:43 AM

Even though the medical society claims VitD will not help psoriasis, I increased my daily dosage to 15,000IU and my skin is clearer. I am thinking about increasing it further. I have always been an advocate that if my skin clears during the summer and I developed the condition after moving from Florida, my home of 40 years, to Portland, Oregon then VitD should obviously play a major role. Additionally, one of the prescribed creams is a VitD analog which to me seems contradictory.

1c08a5addd6e17a59a8622fdf36b19c5

(20)

on March 02, 2011
at 04:46 AM

I guess I should add that my labs tested normal for VitD so I am not sure if the norm is really the norm.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 04, 2011
at 11:16 PM

I have no specific info on psorasis and D but we do know that that skin condition is due to a very fast turnover thru the cell cycle so any organ undergoing quick replacement should have higher replacement costs so i could easily see biologically why a higher level would help.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 05, 2011
at 02:47 AM

Glucocorticoids especially cortisol, also inhibit vitamin D-mediated intestinal calcium uptake, retard the rate of wound healing, and interfere with the rate of linear growth.......this is why so many who have high blood sugars or are high levels of cortisol (insomniacs and sleep apnea folks) tend ot have lower levels of vitamin D levels.

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on March 27, 2011
at 07:48 AM

You can order a finger-prick at home Vitamin D test for like $50-60. I'd definitely take the test to see where you're at. Some fermented cod liver oil may be a good idea- green pastures has some good stuff.

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on March 27, 2011
at 07:49 AM

Sorry, realizing my comment was a bit redundant to my respons ;o/

1
4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on March 02, 2011
at 04:08 AM

You can also get your Vitamin D levels checked on your own I think via vitamindcouncil.org - there's a finger prick test you can order and do at home with a blood spot.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on March 17, 2011
at 01:38 AM

Diane! Would love to see you post more often here! But I know you have a busy schedule. ;)

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on March 27, 2011
at 07:46 AM

Thanks! I definitely am pretty busy for it and as a moderater on the forum on Robb Wolf's site, that's my priority when I do have time to do some trolling and answering ?s etc. Catch me over there if you like!

0
Bad3a78e228c67a7513c28f17c36b3cf

(1387)

on March 02, 2011
at 12:34 PM

Any labs you would suggest? I'm 52, and I don't think my doc has ever ordered anything but a cholesterol check.

Bad3a78e228c67a7513c28f17c36b3cf

(1387)

on March 03, 2011
at 02:46 AM

Dexter, thanks for the tip. Good to know. I'll probably see what I can get my doctor to order first.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 02, 2011
at 03:53 PM

Kate, I have used AnyLabsNow There is a location in Alexandria http://www.anylabtestnow.com/Find_Us.aspx#VA You get your results by mail and you must be somewhat knowlegeable in what the results may say regarding lipid profiles. The one test they do not run is a NMR blood profile that gives the percentage of Large bouyant and small dense LDL particles. They do that with a VAP test or a new test that is a Lipoprotein particle profile. You pay for these tests as your insurance, if any, is not involved.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 04, 2011
at 11:17 PM

i like dexter advice and I would tell you to add a hormone panel to it......problem is you need someone to intrepret it and treat what you need. Good Luck and dont give up

4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on March 27, 2011
at 07:51 AM

There are a bunch of us who have taken functional blood chemistry courses and can let you know if your ranges fall within functional ranges or not based on our assessment forms. Medical ranges are to tell you if you have a disease or are qualified for medical treatment but don't usually tell you if your system just looks like it's off or heading towards a problem/has impaired function. Feel free to get in touch if you ever need more help.

0
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 02, 2011
at 04:14 AM

Dr K, The only thing I know about Vit D3 is that since supplementing with 10000IU for 6 months and then 5000IU for 2 1/2, my wife and I have not been sick one day. Our last dental exam revealed very little plaque buildup on our teeth, and our sense of well being is pretty good. Our aches and pains have abated.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 02, 2011
at 09:58 AM

Most recently, I read about nutrition pioneers Drs Mellanby discovery of D3 and the relationship to ricketts and dental caries at Dr Guyenet's blog http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-tooth-decay-reversal-diet.htmlwholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/ and http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=mellanbywholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/ I am sure it is the lack of wheat, sugar and the D3 in our diet makes for strong enamal. I think it was WAP where I first read about the relationship of D3 and dental a number of years ago. Our D3 levels are 70ng/mL

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 02, 2011
at 04:15 AM

every ask why???

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 02, 2011
at 09:51 AM

Most recently, I read about nutrition pioneers Drs Mellanby discovery of D3 and the relationship to ricketts and dental caries at Dr Guyenet's blog wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/… and wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/… I am sure it is the lack of wheat, sugar and the D3 in our diet makes for strong enamal. I think it was WAP where I first read about the relationship of D3 and dental a number of years ago. Our D3 levels are mid 70ng/mL

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 02, 2011
at 09:49 AM

Most recently, I read about nutrition pioneers Drs Mellanby discovery of D3 and the relationship to ricketts and dental caries at Dr Guyenet's blog http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/preventing-tooth-decay.html and http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-tooth-decay-reversal-diet.html I am sure it is the lack of wheat, sugar and the D3 in our diet makes for strong enamal. I think it was WAP where I first read about the relationship of D3 and dental a number of years ago.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on March 04, 2011
at 11:13 PM

70 ng/ml is a nice place to be. I shoot for 60-100 for my folks The places we have found the vitamin D receptor has really changed the way we view this hormone. Its a very easy one to test and optimize but it needs to be followed for two yrs because at that time peoples receptors become saturated and then their requirements tend to level off.

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