4

votes

Marijuana use for mass gain?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 30, 2012 at 7:06 AM

I'm curious about introducing marijuana in the form of vaporizer or a paleo-edible. When I thought about this I thought this is either a brilliant idea or the worse idea I've come up with.

I am trying to put on some mass and have very little appetite even with a higher carb intake. All my ducks are in a row, but just can't stomach all the food required. I need to basically double my caloric intake. I am a 23 year old ectomorph and am already including bcaa's and creatine.

Two questions:

1) Are there any known effects from marijuana on either leptin sensitivity or insulin sensitivity? My guess the "munchies" have something to do with a sudden dramatic change to leptin levels, but I could be totally wrong since I am not familiar with leptin functionality.

2) Would a bit of marijuana right after my work out to induce a big appetite be smart (only when I'm sure I won't be able to eat much)? BUT I also understand it to be estrogenic and putting on mass definitely requires a healthy hormonal status, so lowering my tester one seems counterproductive and a recipe to get fat.

I used to smoke very occasionally in my youthful indiscretion and was never even that into it. I am emotionally stable and haven't heard anyone talk about marijuana in this light, so I am very interested.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 05, 2012
at 02:41 AM

I tend to do that. Ill argue either side if I feel it will serve objectivity.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 05, 2012
at 02:38 AM

As for my commentary, it just a personal quirk that I dislike facts being misrepresented or people with lost objectivity. If someone said regular pot use was completely harmless and without negatives, Id have commented just as much. In fact there was another post about someone suggestive LSD is beneficial to depression and alcoholism, and I did post a response saying yes, but, it can also screw you over etc (well a fair bit more detailled etc)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 05, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Well I used to be fairly into drug use and alcohol use. Not an every day habit, but a few days a week. I had that kind of mindset, personally, that booze and drugs were my escape. I decided that they were both too much of a psychological crutch and also that it was better for my health not to use any recreational drugs. So I stopped using mind altering substances. Yeah it is telling, for those who tend to habituate their pot use, it can cause definate obvious problems. And in general regular drug use (or alcohol use as if that wasnt a drug, lol) is really a bad idea IMO.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 05, 2012
at 12:19 AM

Jamie, why is that you "don't do it, ever"? That "ever" is very telling. In fact more telling than the entire foot-long commentary you're running on this topic.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 03, 2012
at 12:28 AM

In the country with the highest pot use in the world, less than a third of people of people who actually continue to use marijuana (used in the last twelve months), use it weekly or more. Compare that with people who have used alcohol in last twelve months, and people have used ciggerettes in last twelve months and youll see where your dopamine/pleasure hypothesis falls on its face. Clearly IMO, theres a genetic or psychological predisposition involved with pot addiction. It does not capture the greater population in the way other drug addictions do.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 03, 2012
at 12:25 AM

Unfortunately its just pot, and not comparative with different drugs, and its australian based, a country with about the highest rate of pot use in the world. Nonetheless it still _roughly_ shows what I am talking about. In 1995, of people who still use marijuana (those that have actually used in last 12 months, thus not including those that have it once in a blue moon, or tried just once), 39% either use one or twice a year, or less, or 30% once every few months approximately. And 32% use once a week or more.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 03, 2012
at 12:19 AM

I couldnt find the US statistics with a quick google, but I thought I ought to show something so I found this: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/E4A6E490079E8500CA25703500839F72/$File/mono31.pdf

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 03, 2012
at 12:08 AM

Or at minimum, the idea of suggesting that its strongly physically addictive, is completely unsupported by use statistics.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:58 PM

Because the "regular use rate" is so very low (6% of total marijuana users), I dont think theres any sense at all in applying some dopamine/pleasure hypothesis to its addiction.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:57 PM

Conjecture perhaps, and counfounded by the fact that marijuana can produce anxiety in higher doses, but I think its more supported by the known facts, that your idea that marijuana addiction operates by "hijacking the pleasure centres". If your theory were remotely true, the incidence of regular usage, amongst overall users would be much higher (it would have a more universal appeal to people who try it, like ciggerettes, meth or heroin).

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:54 PM

So hence people probably most likely use booze because of their personal inability to relax. I think the national drug use statistics collected on drug use in america speaks for itself on the contribution of basic pleasure based addiction. Those drugs that are most likely to lead from one use to regular use are those most prominant in physical pleasure (meth, coke, herion, ciggerettes). Subjectivity would back that up. Those lowest on that measure, and lower on drug addiction in harm scales (marijuana, caffiene) are more likely to be used IMO for reasons other than the universal.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:49 PM

Alcohol is a more confusing proposition. There are dopamine elements, but also gaba relaxation, and its initial low dose pro-social qualitites. But i think overall the use reasons for the 90% of users that use regular are somewhat similar to marijuana, alcohol has a very strong gaba effect, promoting a significant mental calm, in addition to a powerful physical calm (as well as the dopamine effects that most drugs of abuse share, but are most prominent in stimulants like meth, coke or opiates like herion).

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:45 PM

My own theory is that the "addictive" properties of marijuana, in the small 6% of total users that habituate, is less about dopamine, or pleasure and more about a form of mental relaxation, that those people psychologically lack the skill to self-generate. Marijuana has the rather rare quality of generating a strong mental calm, without strong physical sedation. It is this that I personally suspect is the quality that attracts those 6% of total users.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:42 PM

Of course my degree in psychology informs my understanding of such studies, and marijuana or drugs in general. Its an area i have studied extensively due to my former obsession with drugs, and my fascination with the workings of the mind.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:40 PM

The nucleus accumbens on the other hand is an established pleasure centre. What would be more useful in the context of this discussion is a comparison of dopamine and particularly nucleus accumbens activation of a variety of drugs, say marijuana, alcohol, ciggerettes and heroin. Then we could talk about how comparatively pleasure oriented marijuana is as a drug.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:38 PM

Just to elucidate some of what that study is trying to say (which isnt terrible coherent all the time), for example the amygdala, is the _fear+ centre. In marijuana use its activation its known to be associated with overwhelming anxiety, and elevated heart rate AKA paranoia. Thats not exactly a motivation to re-use. So the abstract is definately a bit confused.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:37 PM

"Marijuana definitely hijacks the reward pathway, see pnas.org/content/106/31/13016.abstract . Sex, touch and food are designed to elicit a reward - that's not a defence in support of marijuana use." - I didnt really say it was. I was just pointing out, that of the things that elict a dopamine response (of which there are many), marijuana is on the milder end of the list. Alcohol also produces a very similar dopamine response.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:32 PM

"Jamie, have you heard of the saying, "the lady doth protest too much"? " - yeah, does that apply to you or me? I think shakespear was a dill-weed btw. Hes great at insults though.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:30 PM

As for is it paleo - well thats a bit "academic", but early societies often use drugs, mostly for religious purposes, and marijuana is older than man. It may or may not have been used early on (eaten or cast on the fire) - but its also thought to primarily originate in asia and america, rather than africa.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:27 PM

But also id advise against regular use of any drug also. The mind becomes strong by generating its own relaxation, social tendancies, stimulation and creativity.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:26 PM

Any recreational drug (alcohol, coffee included) has the capacity to become a psychological dependancy, taking the place of what can be done without them. Marijuana has a very large number of medical uses, but thats rather seperate from whether one should use recreational drugs, period. If one IS going to use a recreational drug, marijuana is a resonable choice vs alcohol (which is very broad in its effect, has alot of anti-social potential and is overtly toxic), assuming your not the minority (like I was) that ends up wanting to do it habitually.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:21 PM

Well I dont do it, ever, so no, I dont think its awesome.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:27 PM

What did they sound like?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:23 PM

So you could _hear_ you muscles growing.. Got it.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:21 PM

Marijuana definitely hijacks the reward pathway, see http://www.pnas.org/content/106/31/13016.abstract . Sex, touch and food are designed to elicit a reward - that's not a defence in support of marijuana use.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:16 PM

Good for you, henrydrn

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:14 PM

It's pretty obvious you think smoking pot is awesome. But is it paleo?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:12 PM

It's pretty obvious that you think pot is awesome.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:01 PM

Jamie, have you heard of the saying, "the lady doth protest too much"?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 02:54 PM

Shouldn't you be posting this on some marijuana users group forum?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:38 AM

Cannabinoid receptors are found throughout the body. They are in every major organ. There are cannabinoid receptors in the skin responsible for the immediate anti-inflammatory effect. The cannabinoid system is quite extensive.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:37 AM

"When you hammer cannabinoid receptors with THC you force a downregulation of their expression. This not only has consequences in terms of the increasing amount of THC required to reach a particular degree of desired effect, but, since these receptors are also found in cells in brain arteries the downregulation of expression results in impaired brain circulation.". Care to point to a study that shows downregulation of expression? Downregulation absolutely, but of expression itself?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:35 AM

http://www.neurology.org/content/64/3/488.abstract?sid=d0577763-b26a-40c9-9a15-e126af5758e4. Interesting. Suggestive, not conclusive but interesting. Increased blood velocity etc on cessation, may imply the opposite under using conditions. But sometimes pot smokers have issues with blood flow/pressure, theres a particular rare condition, i forget the name of that causes persistant nausea related to blood pressure. Its probably another good reason not to overuse pot/use too regularly. But then the same is true of most drugs IMO. Alcohol is hardly kind to the body.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:31 AM

"When you hammer cannabinoid receptors with THC you force a downregulation of their expression. This not only has consequences in terms of the increasing amount of THC required to reach a particular degree of desired effect, but, since these receptors are also found in cells in brain arteries the downregulation of expression results in impaired brain circulation.". Well not nessasarily. Maybe. Cannabinoid receptors are found throughout the body. They are in every major organ. There are cannabinoid receptors in the skin responsible for the immediate anti-inflammatory effect.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:29 AM

This pretty much makes everything else you say, except the last part, redundant. Its pretty wrong minded to reduce drug effects to their dopamine effects. Opiates themselves deliver much more of their pleasurable effects for example, directly via the opiate receptors. Its stimulants that act primarily directly on the dopamine receptors. Drug actions are complex. Marijuana is no exception, its probably more complex than stimulants, but less so than alcohol. Theres alot of mysteries left on how exactly they all act.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:24 AM

"When you short circuit this with THC you get the same dopamine releasing effect as with other opiates.". Again, wrong. The dopamine release aspect of cannabinoids is relatively small, especially compared to opiates. Alcohol, ciggerettes, sex, touch and food all release dopamine. Pretty much every drug does, or any other rewarding activity. On this scale of effects, cannabis is low. And cannabinoids are not opiates.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:22 AM

"These receptors are normally only activated as part of a reward circuit via the neurotransmitter anandamide. " - the cb1 and cb2 receptors are NOT reward circuits. They are involved with exercise, pain, injury and pregnancy.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:21 AM

There is _so_ much wrong with this post, but ill just point out a few...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 06:37 AM

^ Thats ridiculpus, the assumption that everybody who doesnt seem pot as extremely (over the top) harmful is a pot smoker. That kind of attitude prevents reasonable discussion and is logically unsound. I used to smoke pot. Dont any more. Dont see it as the epitome of evil, although it has some issues, and also many benefits. Its a far safer drug than alcohol IMO. I just personally dont want to use ANY form of drug if I can help it anymore. I think people who regard pot as all negative, or all positive are rather like creationists and atheists; all emotion, and no objectivity.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 06:30 AM

"^And 99% of them have shit ingredients. You make it sound like psychoactive cannibinoids is a bad thing. " - Did I? I am not sure that I did make it sound like that at all, I simply stated a fact. What I was meaning to imply, and perhaps didnt state, is that hunger induction, via cannabinoids (psychoactive or not) is generally considered useful for bulking, even though cannabis itself is "taboo".

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 11:07 PM

Whilst we're at it, here a recent study on how pot can induce psychosis: http://www.neurology.org/content/64/3/488.abstract?sid=d0577763-b26a-40c9-9a15-e126af5758e4

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 10:39 PM

Typical histrionic response. Don't worry, no-one will take your weed away. Now here's a study that doesn't monkey around: http://www.neurology.org/content/64/3/488.abstract?sid=d0577763-b26a-40c9-9a15-e126af5758e4 Also note the citing articles.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 10:37 PM

It's unremarkable to see the typical solidarity amongst pot users manifest as they come to the defence of their practices. But worth remarking on it nevertheless.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 10:35 PM

It's unremarkable to see the typical solidarity amongst pot users. But worth remarking on it nevertheless.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 10:30 PM

No rhesus monkeys in this study: http://www.neurology.org/content/64/3/488.abstract?sid=d0577763-b26a-40c9-9a15-e126af5758e4

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 31, 2012
at 07:09 PM

The brain damage hypothesis is cute but dead wrong. The hypothesis was founded upon discovering that rhesus monkeys administered 200-300 times the active dose of cannabis had structural changes in the hippocampus when they died. That is like saying alcohol is deadly because drinking two two bottles of vodka have been shown to cause death. That said i have better things to do than to discuss bad science with you. You're likely a fanatic concerning your anti-unregulated-drug stance. My arguments wont change that. I dont bother discussing evolution with creationists either.

Adeb72a71b7cd3f4dd75795eb9c11ad9

(130)

on August 31, 2012
at 05:30 PM

:) I also edited that for you Dan W...You're welcome! :D

Adeb72a71b7cd3f4dd75795eb9c11ad9

(130)

on August 31, 2012
at 05:26 PM

HA! My bad...sorry I was high :P

19ff515e8ec02d95e8f2cf68c3ec1373

(1207)

on August 31, 2012
at 06:05 AM

My non weight gaining / endurance racing bf swears on it for a mid workout analgesic to push harder. He also has extremely high quality ingredients, organically and locally sourced.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 31, 2012
at 03:36 AM

Stigma, not stigmata. Stigmata is bloody holes in Jesus on the cross. Sorry, it's a pet peeve. But yes, less is more. : )

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 31, 2012
at 03:34 AM

What does a paleo-person do when they have the munchies? They eat more paleo food! ...Hopefully.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 31, 2012
at 03:32 AM

^ Yes, well, some people are able to take advantage of that, and other people have that aspect take advantage of *them*.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 02:57 AM

@ Dan W. : on pot _anything_ "can be very stimulating and attention-gathering". That's the problem. Or it is for some.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 02:56 AM

@ Dan W. : on pot _everything_ "can be very stimulating and attention-gathering".

06ca9c524c28bc3fba95d4d90f8f43c6

on August 31, 2012
at 12:52 AM

Big difference in stimulating something that is non-existant due to treatment of a disease vs. a healthy adult just trying to get hungrier. I know that Cannibis can mess with the leptin receptor, but I would imagine in a healthy adult this would normalize very quickly.

1ac8e976f84cb2566ecfbbcce1817351

(211)

on August 30, 2012
at 11:32 PM

I guess I can take a hint from the Food Reward Theory and add some paleo sauces to increase the palatability to my meat, potatoes and rice to increase my calories and Body Set Point.

1ac8e976f84cb2566ecfbbcce1817351

(211)

on August 30, 2012
at 09:22 PM

Thanks for everyone's answers. This will have to be an experiment for someone else. From an curious scientific standpoint, I am still interested in the effect cannabis has on either insulin and leptin sensitivity...

1ac8e976f84cb2566ecfbbcce1817351

(211)

on August 30, 2012
at 09:20 PM

I have decided to not do it. I remember feeling totally lazy. Plus I don't event want to see me get fat from the potential estrogenic effect.

1ac8e976f84cb2566ecfbbcce1817351

(211)

on August 30, 2012
at 09:12 PM

haha, that's hilarious

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 30, 2012
at 05:34 PM

Also regarding cognitive function: "If you don't smoke cannabis, you may spend your evening balancing your checking account. If you do smoke cannabis you may spend your evening contemplating the causes of the greek Renaissance" - Terence McKenna If you're looking for a harmful drug that decreases cognitive function, is toxic, deadly AND detrimental to athletic performance you should check out alcohol.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 30, 2012
at 05:25 PM

You forget it is an illegal substance Dan W. That means we must vilify it beyond any reasonability. We cannot allow science or reason to get in the way of this.

A0b8c4cc369f93ee987ce15b1bf323fe

on August 30, 2012
at 04:09 PM

You should try a good sativa, it won't bring you down. http://www.thcdigest.com/indica-vs-sativa/

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:58 PM

No, Harry, that would be speed. Remember that Family Ties episode? Immediately what I thought of when I read your comment!

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:39 PM

Stimulating and attention gathering? Pot is the most anti-social drug I think of it. It is a depressant. If you want "stimulating and attention-gathering" try cocaine.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:27 PM

I'm sorry, but smoking pot doesn't give you man boobs.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:02 PM

Sure, next thing to ask will be if marijuana would help in exam prep.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Marijuana > increased oestrogen > man boobs + decreased aerobic capacity + decreased motivation + decreased cognitive function. What more could you want as an athlete.

Ba09704971e33481f5716c4790648966

(1794)

on August 30, 2012
at 02:34 PM

No evidence about the estrogen = hunger relationship, I know what munchies are...

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on August 30, 2012
at 02:24 PM

And, Dan W., what do people with the "munchies" eat? Do they make good food choices? I've witnessed healthy eaters put away a dozen Krispy Kreme doughnuts while high. Not exactly the best way to bulk up unless storing fat is the goal.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:57 PM

You're awesome, Alexander. Totally agreed. Taking a pill from a pharmaceutical company to increase appetite? SURE GO GET YER SCRIP. Use a plant? OMGZ NO YER A JUNKIE. That, to me, is antithetical to Paleo.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:55 PM

Every party needs a pooper, and that's why some people are on PH.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:54 PM

This is funny, but the OP is asking a 100% legit question.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:53 PM

Not everyone gets amotivational on pot. People who overdo it tend to get lazy, but often, less is more. Pot can be very stimulating and attention-gathering.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:52 PM

Same. Though I have heard that weed-cravings are largely savory foods-oriented, rather than sweets. I mean, everything tastes good, but that's the general direction I see.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:50 PM

Have you heard of the "munchies"? I don't think you need evidence for that...

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:50 PM

VB, your anti-drug bias is off-putting. Open your mind, please. He stated his problem with eating "right." It's too much to stomach. I gather that his appetite isn't large enough to get those calories in.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:49 PM

Are you kidding me? I hear about this all the time. Marijuana --> increased appetite --> increased calories. It's not complicated.

63479974b34930b7bedb12afa19083d3

on August 30, 2012
at 01:27 PM

This is probably my favorite answer here.

7ed694d6e06a4898e6da3fbb556153c3

(50)

on August 30, 2012
at 12:44 PM

You've never heard of cancer patients using medical marijuana in order to stimulate appetite?

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on August 30, 2012
at 11:58 AM

^And 99% of them have shit ingredients. You make it sound like psychoactive cannibinoids is a bad thing.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on August 30, 2012
at 08:48 AM

There are commercial bulking formulas that use non-psychoactive cannibinoids to induce hunger.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 30, 2012
at 08:16 AM

So instead of working out and eating right all you can think of is smoking dope? Maybe you should consider using LSD to induce creativity and heroine to cure headaches? Go ahead, since, judging by your question, it cannot make any damage - it has already been done.

Ba99a15e6bf870b81286791617050593

(671)

on August 30, 2012
at 07:19 AM

Props on framing this in a scientific/non-"I need a good excuse to smoke" dope way. I'm intrigued. Also opens up the forum to paleo-pot brownie and marijuana-lard recipes.

  • 1ac8e976f84cb2566ecfbbcce1817351

    asked by

    (211)
  • Views
    3.7K
  • Last Activity
    1256D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

16 Answers

best answer

6
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on August 30, 2012
at 11:46 AM

My guess is 3 weeks into your "bulk" you're going to lose all motivation and desire to do the necessary training.

Just being honest. Good luck, though.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:39 PM

Stimulating and attention gathering? Pot is the most anti-social drug I think of it. It is a depressant. If you want "stimulating and attention-gathering" try cocaine.

1ac8e976f84cb2566ecfbbcce1817351

(211)

on August 30, 2012
at 11:32 PM

I guess I can take a hint from the Food Reward Theory and add some paleo sauces to increase the palatability to my meat, potatoes and rice to increase my calories and Body Set Point.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 02:57 AM

@ Dan W. : on pot _anything_ "can be very stimulating and attention-gathering". That's the problem. Or it is for some.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 31, 2012
at 03:32 AM

^ Yes, well, some people are able to take advantage of that, and other people have that aspect take advantage of *them*.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 02:56 AM

@ Dan W. : on pot _everything_ "can be very stimulating and attention-gathering".

1ac8e976f84cb2566ecfbbcce1817351

(211)

on August 30, 2012
at 09:20 PM

I have decided to not do it. I remember feeling totally lazy. Plus I don't event want to see me get fat from the potential estrogenic effect.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:53 PM

Not everyone gets amotivational on pot. People who overdo it tend to get lazy, but often, less is more. Pot can be very stimulating and attention-gathering.

1ac8e976f84cb2566ecfbbcce1817351

(211)

on August 30, 2012
at 09:12 PM

haha, that's hilarious

A0b8c4cc369f93ee987ce15b1bf323fe

on August 30, 2012
at 04:09 PM

You should try a good sativa, it won't bring you down. http://www.thcdigest.com/indica-vs-sativa/

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:16 PM

Good for you, henrydrn

4
4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

on August 30, 2012
at 12:09 PM

Speaking from personal experience i can certainly confirm the munchies. I am not familiar with the endocrinological aspects of marijuana smoking - but weed-cravings certainly seems focused on 'sweet' food that wouldn't exactly help you gain muscle. People are different however. I suggest you try it a few times post-workout to test it. It COULD also, possibly, aid your workout - Like PhysiqueRescue said it helps you reach a trance like state of mind that could be beneficial.

That said you're gonna have to put up with alot of BS when you suggesting stuff like this. People still cling to the idea that 'unless government endorses it it is dangerous and wrong!" VB's comment is an excellent example of this. Honestly, i thought such stupidity died when people realized how dangerous Statins are even though they are pushed by the medical community like you wouldn't believe it. Ultimately the legal status of drugs is a matter of politics and not so much science, unfortunatly.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:52 PM

Same. Though I have heard that weed-cravings are largely savory foods-oriented, rather than sweets. I mean, everything tastes good, but that's the general direction I see.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 10:37 PM

It's unremarkable to see the typical solidarity amongst pot users manifest as they come to the defence of their practices. But worth remarking on it nevertheless.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:57 PM

You're awesome, Alexander. Totally agreed. Taking a pill from a pharmaceutical company to increase appetite? SURE GO GET YER SCRIP. Use a plant? OMGZ NO YER A JUNKIE. That, to me, is antithetical to Paleo.

63479974b34930b7bedb12afa19083d3

on August 30, 2012
at 01:27 PM

This is probably my favorite answer here.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 06:37 AM

^ Thats ridiculpus, the assumption that everybody who doesnt seem pot as extremely (over the top) harmful is a pot smoker. That kind of attitude prevents reasonable discussion and is logically unsound. I used to smoke pot. Dont any more. Dont see it as the epitome of evil, although it has some issues, and also many benefits. Its a far safer drug than alcohol IMO. I just personally dont want to use ANY form of drug if I can help it anymore. I think people who regard pot as all negative, or all positive are rather like creationists and atheists; all emotion, and no objectivity.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 10:35 PM

It's unremarkable to see the typical solidarity amongst pot users. But worth remarking on it nevertheless.

4
Dd74e6399ae697d8603dc9aa74fbafae

(695)

on August 30, 2012
at 09:55 AM

This would maybe make you gain mass, but a much larger fat-to-muscle ratio than you would without it, as cannabis and its chemical components are well known for having endocrine suppressing effects. There are some studies that suggests that it may increase estrogen levels as well. When testosterone are lowered, you are going to have a much harder time with exercise, sleep and motivation, the three keys elements to success. Also remember that you mostly crave sweets when you're high, meat and sweet potatoes are most likely not going to be satisfactory.

I'm a huge fan of having a smoke once in a while, but do not use it too often. Being under daily influence of any drug causes adverse effects, and mostly all of them negative.

4
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 30, 2012
at 07:37 AM

haven't heard anyone talk about marijuana in this light

Very possibly because it has no benefit for this purpose.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:27 PM

I'm sorry, but smoking pot doesn't give you man boobs.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:49 PM

Are you kidding me? I hear about this all the time. Marijuana --> increased appetite --> increased calories. It's not complicated.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Marijuana > increased oestrogen > man boobs + decreased aerobic capacity + decreased motivation + decreased cognitive function. What more could you want as an athlete.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 30, 2012
at 05:25 PM

You forget it is an illegal substance Dan W. That means we must vilify it beyond any reasonability. We cannot allow science or reason to get in the way of this.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 30, 2012
at 05:34 PM

Also regarding cognitive function: "If you don't smoke cannabis, you may spend your evening balancing your checking account. If you do smoke cannabis you may spend your evening contemplating the causes of the greek Renaissance" - Terence McKenna If you're looking for a harmful drug that decreases cognitive function, is toxic, deadly AND detrimental to athletic performance you should check out alcohol.

2
63479974b34930b7bedb12afa19083d3

on August 30, 2012
at 01:26 PM

Some of these responses are kinda lame and laughable. Do what you feel. I think, like most of this, it depends on the person. And, to credit whoever mentioned this already, it depends on what kind you get. Personally, I can enjoy this and not be hungry at all, or be able to control the "munchies". Sometimes, though, if I do it and then have something with sugar, I start to get binge crazy.

I can say that it has helped me sleep on VLC days and occasionally gets rid of anxiety. I've been able to work out, often not over-thinking the time or other life issues and just focusing on the workout. Try it out, see how you react, and see if it works for you. Not every question is to be PaleoHacked.

1
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:00 AM

I sincerely hope you didnt want a serious, objective, answer.

In those that dont have the tendacy to over smoke the stuff, cannabis is a pretty darn safe and non-addictive drug. Only around 6% of people who try it, go onto use it regularly. Compared that with 90% with alcohol or around 95% with nicotine, cocaine, or heroin. Admitedly its fairly habitual for that 6%, but I think on the basis of measures of general addiction, withdrawl and so forth, it could probably be considered less harmful and less addictive than caffiene, and thats what some studies have said (not saying its true, or not, but it is low on addiction scales)

Its estrogenic effects are minimal compared with its cousin hops, found in beer, for which its estrogenic effects are so strong it causes contact dermatitis. So if you drink beer, cannabis is the least of your worries, estrogen wise.

I cannot comment on its effect on leptin however.

For hunger induction, nasea reduction, nerve pain or smooth muscle relaxation, cannabis is pretty unparalleled. It also releases melatonin (which may be too much if it drains your gland from overusing the stuff and why stoners dont dream), and probably has other anti-oxidant effects.

Of course it does have side effects, such as (until cessation of use) short term memory loss, lowering of sperm motility, some increased risk of psychosis (not as much as with alcohol, and certainly no where near strong stimulant drugs) and, as well some amotivational syndrome in those that over use it. I am not aware of any proven long term effect that doesn't resolve with cessation tho (doesnt mean there isnt any of course).

I cant really answer your question on leptin, and as far as estrogen goes yes its true, but its not as bad as beer in this regard (or almost all regards). But I just thought id try to post up something objective, coming from someone who has partaken, done research, knows neuropshychology and no longer touches the stuff.

It definately increases hunger. And that probably is useful for bulking, but id stay away from very regular usage of any drug if it can be avoided. Messes with your bodies balances.

There are cannabinoids in chocolate (in trace levels). Chocomine has some pretty decent stimulants in it too. I am not sure its effective for appetite increase as well, but can be used to boost a workout. Or you could try one of the bulking formulaes containing echinacea isolates. But, like chocamine, one cant be sure if those particular cannibinoids actually stimulate hunger effectively. And again, id recommend against very regular usage of any drug, if it can be avoided. The body is a complicated mysterious beast after all.

As a side note, endocannibinoids are strongly implicated in the runners high, moreso than endorphins. Supplementing with archanoic acid (sp?) boosted endurance excercise by 30% duration. Unfortunately AA is also pro-inflammatory, and pot itself has too much in the way of direct cb1 agonism to be useful for endurance gains. But its worth noting that cannabinoids are most likely involved in endurance, and particular kinds of cannabinoids, particularly the endo kinds may give functional boosts to performance (probably the more selective kinds, as opposed to broad acting marijuana).

Endocannabinoids themselves are also involved in pregnancy and injury. They serve as a kind of physical stress adaptor. This, and the effect on melatonin, is probably a good motivation to not to use pot too regularly (In addition to habituation in those minorities that find themselves in that situation)

As far as the strain talk goes, there is some chemical truth to this. Strains higher in thc, but lower in cbd are more stimulating. But then again those lower in thc and higher in cbd are less of psychosis risk factor. There are thousands of cannabinoids in pot, and it is often said in science that pot is 50% stronger than would be expected from its thc content alone. We dont know much about those other cannabinoids. Also often underplayed is the role of terpenes (chemicals that occur in other plants). Linalool for example is the principle relaxant in lavender. There are many others in pot, in various concentrations. The particular scent is the give away re:terpene content.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 02:54 PM

Shouldn't you be posting this on some marijuana users group forum?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:14 PM

It's pretty obvious you think smoking pot is awesome. But is it paleo?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:21 PM

Well I dont do it, ever, so no, I dont think its awesome.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:12 PM

It's pretty obvious that you think pot is awesome.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:30 PM

As for is it paleo - well thats a bit "academic", but early societies often use drugs, mostly for religious purposes, and marijuana is older than man. It may or may not have been used early on (eaten or cast on the fire) - but its also thought to primarily originate in asia and america, rather than africa.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:27 PM

But also id advise against regular use of any drug also. The mind becomes strong by generating its own relaxation, social tendancies, stimulation and creativity.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:26 PM

Any recreational drug (alcohol, coffee included) has the capacity to become a psychological dependancy, taking the place of what can be done without them. Marijuana has a very large number of medical uses, but thats rather seperate from whether one should use recreational drugs, period. If one IS going to use a recreational drug, marijuana is a resonable choice vs alcohol (which is very broad in its effect, has alot of anti-social potential and is overtly toxic), assuming your not the minority (like I was) that ends up wanting to do it habitually.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 05, 2012
at 02:38 AM

As for my commentary, it just a personal quirk that I dislike facts being misrepresented or people with lost objectivity. If someone said regular pot use was completely harmless and without negatives, Id have commented just as much. In fact there was another post about someone suggestive LSD is beneficial to depression and alcoholism, and I did post a response saying yes, but, it can also screw you over etc (well a fair bit more detailled etc)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 05, 2012
at 12:19 AM

Jamie, why is that you "don't do it, ever"? That "ever" is very telling. In fact more telling than the entire foot-long commentary you're running on this topic.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 05, 2012
at 02:41 AM

I tend to do that. Ill argue either side if I feel it will serve objectivity.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 05, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Well I used to be fairly into drug use and alcohol use. Not an every day habit, but a few days a week. I had that kind of mindset, personally, that booze and drugs were my escape. I decided that they were both too much of a psychological crutch and also that it was better for my health not to use any recreational drugs. So I stopped using mind altering substances. Yeah it is telling, for those who tend to habituate their pot use, it can cause definate obvious problems. And in general regular drug use (or alcohol use as if that wasnt a drug, lol) is really a bad idea IMO.

1
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on September 01, 2012
at 11:55 PM

All I know is that at one time, fed up with the rigors of constant strength training in a competitive goal (strongman), I gave up my daily 3gms on ibuprofen for a small amount of weed. It worked better for pain management, and if I listened carefully after a hard workout and the following meal, I think I could hear my muscles growing.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:23 PM

So you could _hear_ you muscles growing.. Got it.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:27 PM

What did they sound like?

1
Ba09704971e33481f5716c4790648966

(1794)

on August 30, 2012
at 11:20 AM

The estrogenic effects of marijuana could also lead to hunger I believe.

I have no evidence to prove this.

But the calories would mostly be stored as fat if you did it enough to lower your testosterone and DHT which would probably lead to other problems as well.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:50 PM

Have you heard of the "munchies"? I don't think you need evidence for that...

Ba09704971e33481f5716c4790648966

(1794)

on August 30, 2012
at 02:34 PM

No evidence about the estrogen = hunger relationship, I know what munchies are...

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 31, 2012
at 03:34 AM

What does a paleo-person do when they have the munchies? They eat more paleo food! ...Hopefully.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on August 30, 2012
at 02:24 PM

And, Dan W., what do people with the "munchies" eat? Do they make good food choices? I've witnessed healthy eaters put away a dozen Krispy Kreme doughnuts while high. Not exactly the best way to bulk up unless storing fat is the goal.

0
2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on September 02, 2012
at 10:20 AM

I did read somewhere that THC (or something else in pot) strongly inhibits leptin binding. case in point A while ago I smoked a joint (no tolerance), ordered two large thin crust pizzas for delivery and ate both within 30 minutes. I was still hungry :(

marijuana can induce a sharp but short lived increase in heart rate and bp. so depending on your workout, I would wait an hour afterwards before you take a smoke.

0
D7f404b29047b12e2c2f528934b7b80b

(133)

on September 02, 2012
at 06:22 AM

Great question! Fun reading what everyone has posted so far. If you do this, pick your strain wisely. Have your post-pot meal (s) ready so you are not tempted to eat something you will regret. Once you're full off of healthy food you're mind wont be thinking about craving sweets or whatever (usually). Since you wanna gain weight anyway you could always have some paleo treats ready to go. After a few times of smoking your body gets used to what's going on and you can pretty much control your hunger. Also you get really thirsty, and i find if i drink lemon water, tea or just plain water it fills me up and the need to over eat goes away. Not that over eating would be a problem for you. A side note: it does cause me to break out, but its different for everyone, im super sensitive to any hormonal changes. And at times i felt like my blood sugar dropped fast, not sure if it actually did or not but it replicated my hypoglycimic feelings of low blood sugar. Also the majority of the times, coming off the high ive become exstremely anxious. But like i said, im very sensitive to any chemical/hormonal changes, so for you it could be totally different! Sorry for any typos im on my ipone and there's no way im gonna read back over this to fix anything! :) so pls no grammar comments like we're in 5th grade!

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 02:37 AM

Also regarding cognitive function: "If you don't smoke cannabis, you may spend your evening balancing your checking account. If you do smoke cannabis you may spend your evening contemplating the causes of the greek Renaissance" - Terence McKenna If you're looking for a harmful drug that decreases cognitive function, is toxic, deadly AND detrimental to athletic performance you should check out alcohol. ??? Alexander

Hold it. The active ingredient of cannabis, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), binds to the cannabinoid receptors in brain neurons. These receptors are normally only activated as part of a reward circuit via the neurotransmitter anandamide. When you short circuit this with THC you get the same dopamine releasing effect as with other opiates. Consequently, behaviour is powerfully altered with motivation being driven by the next joint rather than some other activity from which one would derive pleasure.

This is why it is possible to derive significant enjoyment - from the most mundane and banal activities - whilst being intoxicated on cannabis.

Which brings us back to the Terence McKenna quote. It is more likely that you may spend your evening utterly engrossed in the latest food processor infomercial.

One more thing. When you hammer cannabinoid receptors with THC this results in an inevitable downregulation of their expression. This not only has consequences in terms of the increasing amount of THC required to reach a particular degree of desired euphoric effect, but, since these receptors are also found in cells of brain arteries, downregulation of expression results in impaired brain circulation. Long term chronic usage is associated with poor brain circulation, i.e. oxygen, glucose, poor mental performance and increased risk of stroke.

It's also worth pointing out that most people are interested in enhancing their intelligence and cognitive capacity. You can try to defend marijuana usage but it will never be consistent with such aims.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:35 AM

http://www.neurology.org/content/64/3/488.abstract?sid=d0577763-b26a-40c9-9a15-e126af5758e4. Interesting. Suggestive, not conclusive but interesting. Increased blood velocity etc on cessation, may imply the opposite under using conditions. But sometimes pot smokers have issues with blood flow/pressure, theres a particular rare condition, i forget the name of that causes persistant nausea related to blood pressure. Its probably another good reason not to overuse pot/use too regularly. But then the same is true of most drugs IMO. Alcohol is hardly kind to the body.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:01 PM

Jamie, have you heard of the saying, "the lady doth protest too much"?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 10:39 PM

Typical histrionic response. Don't worry, no-one will take your weed away. Now here's a study that doesn't monkey around: http://www.neurology.org/content/64/3/488.abstract?sid=d0577763-b26a-40c9-9a15-e126af5758e4 Also note the citing articles.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:58 PM

Because the "regular use rate" is so very low (6% of total marijuana users), I dont think theres any sense at all in applying some dopamine/pleasure hypothesis to its addiction.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:40 PM

The nucleus accumbens on the other hand is an established pleasure centre. What would be more useful in the context of this discussion is a comparison of dopamine and particularly nucleus accumbens activation of a variety of drugs, say marijuana, alcohol, ciggerettes and heroin. Then we could talk about how comparatively pleasure oriented marijuana is as a drug.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:37 AM

"When you hammer cannabinoid receptors with THC you force a downregulation of their expression. This not only has consequences in terms of the increasing amount of THC required to reach a particular degree of desired effect, but, since these receptors are also found in cells in brain arteries the downregulation of expression results in impaired brain circulation.". Care to point to a study that shows downregulation of expression? Downregulation absolutely, but of expression itself?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 03, 2012
at 12:25 AM

Unfortunately its just pot, and not comparative with different drugs, and its australian based, a country with about the highest rate of pot use in the world. Nonetheless it still _roughly_ shows what I am talking about. In 1995, of people who still use marijuana (those that have actually used in last 12 months, thus not including those that have it once in a blue moon, or tried just once), 39% either use one or twice a year, or less, or 30% once every few months approximately. And 32% use once a week or more.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:42 PM

Of course my degree in psychology informs my understanding of such studies, and marijuana or drugs in general. Its an area i have studied extensively due to my former obsession with drugs, and my fascination with the workings of the mind.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:54 PM

So hence people probably most likely use booze because of their personal inability to relax. I think the national drug use statistics collected on drug use in america speaks for itself on the contribution of basic pleasure based addiction. Those drugs that are most likely to lead from one use to regular use are those most prominant in physical pleasure (meth, coke, herion, ciggerettes). Subjectivity would back that up. Those lowest on that measure, and lower on drug addiction in harm scales (marijuana, caffiene) are more likely to be used IMO for reasons other than the universal.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:22 AM

"These receptors are normally only activated as part of a reward circuit via the neurotransmitter anandamide. " - the cb1 and cb2 receptors are NOT reward circuits. They are involved with exercise, pain, injury and pregnancy.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:32 PM

"Jamie, have you heard of the saying, "the lady doth protest too much"? " - yeah, does that apply to you or me? I think shakespear was a dill-weed btw. Hes great at insults though.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 31, 2012
at 07:09 PM

The brain damage hypothesis is cute but dead wrong. The hypothesis was founded upon discovering that rhesus monkeys administered 200-300 times the active dose of cannabis had structural changes in the hippocampus when they died. That is like saying alcohol is deadly because drinking two two bottles of vodka have been shown to cause death. That said i have better things to do than to discuss bad science with you. You're likely a fanatic concerning your anti-unregulated-drug stance. My arguments wont change that. I dont bother discussing evolution with creationists either.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:21 AM

There is _so_ much wrong with this post, but ill just point out a few...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:37 PM

"Marijuana definitely hijacks the reward pathway, see pnas.org/content/106/31/13016.abstract . Sex, touch and food are designed to elicit a reward - that's not a defence in support of marijuana use." - I didnt really say it was. I was just pointing out, that of the things that elict a dopamine response (of which there are many), marijuana is on the milder end of the list. Alcohol also produces a very similar dopamine response.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 10:30 PM

No rhesus monkeys in this study: http://www.neurology.org/content/64/3/488.abstract?sid=d0577763-b26a-40c9-9a15-e126af5758e4

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:49 PM

Alcohol is a more confusing proposition. There are dopamine elements, but also gaba relaxation, and its initial low dose pro-social qualitites. But i think overall the use reasons for the 90% of users that use regular are somewhat similar to marijuana, alcohol has a very strong gaba effect, promoting a significant mental calm, in addition to a powerful physical calm (as well as the dopamine effects that most drugs of abuse share, but are most prominent in stimulants like meth, coke or opiates like herion).

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 31, 2012
at 11:07 PM

Whilst we're at it, here a recent study on how pot can induce psychosis: http://www.neurology.org/content/64/3/488.abstract?sid=d0577763-b26a-40c9-9a15-e126af5758e4

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:24 AM

"When you short circuit this with THC you get the same dopamine releasing effect as with other opiates.". Again, wrong. The dopamine release aspect of cannabinoids is relatively small, especially compared to opiates. Alcohol, ciggerettes, sex, touch and food all release dopamine. Pretty much every drug does, or any other rewarding activity. On this scale of effects, cannabis is low. And cannabinoids are not opiates.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 03, 2012
at 12:28 AM

In the country with the highest pot use in the world, less than a third of people of people who actually continue to use marijuana (used in the last twelve months), use it weekly or more. Compare that with people who have used alcohol in last twelve months, and people have used ciggerettes in last twelve months and youll see where your dopamine/pleasure hypothesis falls on its face. Clearly IMO, theres a genetic or psychological predisposition involved with pot addiction. It does not capture the greater population in the way other drug addictions do.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:38 PM

Just to elucidate some of what that study is trying to say (which isnt terrible coherent all the time), for example the amygdala, is the _fear+ centre. In marijuana use its activation its known to be associated with overwhelming anxiety, and elevated heart rate AKA paranoia. Thats not exactly a motivation to re-use. So the abstract is definately a bit confused.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:29 AM

This pretty much makes everything else you say, except the last part, redundant. Its pretty wrong minded to reduce drug effects to their dopamine effects. Opiates themselves deliver much more of their pleasurable effects for example, directly via the opiate receptors. Its stimulants that act primarily directly on the dopamine receptors. Drug actions are complex. Marijuana is no exception, its probably more complex than stimulants, but less so than alcohol. Theres alot of mysteries left on how exactly they all act.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 02, 2012
at 03:21 PM

Marijuana definitely hijacks the reward pathway, see http://www.pnas.org/content/106/31/13016.abstract . Sex, touch and food are designed to elicit a reward - that's not a defence in support of marijuana use.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:31 AM

"When you hammer cannabinoid receptors with THC you force a downregulation of their expression. This not only has consequences in terms of the increasing amount of THC required to reach a particular degree of desired effect, but, since these receptors are also found in cells in brain arteries the downregulation of expression results in impaired brain circulation.". Well not nessasarily. Maybe. Cannabinoid receptors are found throughout the body. They are in every major organ. There are cannabinoid receptors in the skin responsible for the immediate anti-inflammatory effect.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 03, 2012
at 12:19 AM

I couldnt find the US statistics with a quick google, but I thought I ought to show something so I found this: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/E4A6E490079E8500CA25703500839F72/$File/mono31.pdf

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:45 PM

My own theory is that the "addictive" properties of marijuana, in the small 6% of total users that habituate, is less about dopamine, or pleasure and more about a form of mental relaxation, that those people psychologically lack the skill to self-generate. Marijuana has the rather rare quality of generating a strong mental calm, without strong physical sedation. It is this that I personally suspect is the quality that attracts those 6% of total users.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 07:38 AM

Cannabinoid receptors are found throughout the body. They are in every major organ. There are cannabinoid receptors in the skin responsible for the immediate anti-inflammatory effect. The cannabinoid system is quite extensive.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 02, 2012
at 11:57 PM

Conjecture perhaps, and counfounded by the fact that marijuana can produce anxiety in higher doses, but I think its more supported by the known facts, that your idea that marijuana addiction operates by "hijacking the pleasure centres". If your theory were remotely true, the incidence of regular usage, amongst overall users would be much higher (it would have a more universal appeal to people who try it, like ciggerettes, meth or heroin).

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 03, 2012
at 12:08 AM

Or at minimum, the idea of suggesting that its strongly physically addictive, is completely unsupported by use statistics.

0
Adeb72a71b7cd3f4dd75795eb9c11ad9

on August 30, 2012
at 03:24 PM

Dan W made a great point that "less is more" It only takes a little bit to experience the high from Cannabis. Most people over do it when they do smoke which is why you have the stigma of pot smokers being lazy. Yes I've been lazy if I've smoked too much but when I don't I experience what PhysiqueRescue talks about. I also have to say I like what Alexander had to say along with everybody that responded to that thread. I guess the only way to find out what will work is to try it. Don't get crazy and remember less is more. :)

Adeb72a71b7cd3f4dd75795eb9c11ad9

(130)

on August 31, 2012
at 05:26 PM

HA! My bad...sorry I was high :P

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 31, 2012
at 03:36 AM

Stigma, not stigmata. Stigmata is bloody holes in Jesus on the cross. Sorry, it's a pet peeve. But yes, less is more. : )

Adeb72a71b7cd3f4dd75795eb9c11ad9

(130)

on August 31, 2012
at 05:30 PM

:) I also edited that for you Dan W...You're welcome! :D

0
7caec21ad66b572d9afcb1e24f7297aa

on August 30, 2012
at 12:38 PM

Dude, are you stoned?

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:58 PM

No, Harry, that would be speed. Remember that Family Ties episode? Immediately what I thought of when I read your comment!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 30, 2012
at 03:02 PM

Sure, next thing to ask will be if marijuana would help in exam prep.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on August 30, 2012
at 01:54 PM

This is funny, but the OP is asking a 100% legit question.

0
06ca9c524c28bc3fba95d4d90f8f43c6

on August 30, 2012
at 11:56 AM

I just hope that you don't get hungry enough to eat the weights and then forget about it . . .In all serious though, the only "bro-science" semi-positive thing I have heard is that in a "different" state of mind, some people can better access that mind/muscle connection and actually work harder. I have NOT heard anything about appetite stimulating effects of cannibis to gain weight. Why not just go with the GOMAD (Gallon of Milk A Day) approach, it'd probably be cheaper unless raw milk is contraband where you live and you were doing something illegal anyway.

-Matthew @ PhysiqueRescue

7ed694d6e06a4898e6da3fbb556153c3

(50)

on August 30, 2012
at 12:44 PM

You've never heard of cancer patients using medical marijuana in order to stimulate appetite?

06ca9c524c28bc3fba95d4d90f8f43c6

on August 31, 2012
at 12:52 AM

Big difference in stimulating something that is non-existant due to treatment of a disease vs. a healthy adult just trying to get hungrier. I know that Cannibis can mess with the leptin receptor, but I would imagine in a healthy adult this would normalize very quickly.

0
5e8a0f259a78e9972861f44f37e29c8d

on August 30, 2012
at 09:22 AM

Best thread ever, curious to hear your results.

0
Adb6852b4f2f42904da67708ffcd59f5

on August 30, 2012
at 07:21 AM

hi

i don't know much on the technical side of how or why the effects of marijuana happens.

NOTE: the real name is not Marijuana, it is called cannabis sativa. I know this may be off topic, but if you want to learn more about it which i am sure you know already, press the link to below for more information regarding how amazing this natural plant is. ( its in the form of a song, its long but VERY informative)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCqlW09B7PY

...and back to the topic, from what i know, different strands of cannabis sativa can cause different effects. Some may induce a very big appetite or some may induce a never ending laughing episode or others may make you feel lazy. It is all in the strand from my experience or what I have been told by others.

But if you want to add mass and you need an appetite, doesn't lifting heavy weight induce an appetite and if not, just try some supplements or just force feed! It ain't easy to force feed because when i do it, my body say no more but i push on to the point where i will throw up,literally, but it works so just forcing is better imo.

cannabis sativa is fine though ;)

Good Luck!

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!