2

votes

Incredibly low T at 22

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 23, 2013 at 12:41 AM

Hi All,

I'm going through some confounding problems and I would really like some advice from the community. Around a year ago I started feeling pretty poor all around- bad sleep, bad memory, low sex drive, muscle wasting, losing weight, joint pain, muscle pain, poor recovery, etc. All these symptoms point to low testosterone, but I did a full blood panel just to be sure. Everything looked normal, except for testosterone. I was in the low 400s. After consulting an endocrinologist, I was prescribed 200mg Cypionate (Testosterone) injected every two weeks. Not and ideal solution, but when you can't sleep, have sore muscles, and no sex drive, you do anything you can to alleviate those symptoms immediately.

Almost six months later, I had my blood work redone at a trough and peak before and after injection, which presented testosterone levels at 162 and 330. Not good.

I'm 22 years old, and have been (98%) paleo over the past four years. I train according to seasons, with lots of outdoor activity in the summer, and almost exclusively gym lifting in the winter. I eat whatever I feel like, whenever I want (but still paleo foods).

Thinking back, the list of possible problems is pretty long, but none of them are the clear culprit.

  • Travel abroad in New Zealand (6 months): bacterial infection, food poisoning 3 times
  • Undergraduate studies (the past 4 years): not-ideal sleep, school stress
  • Attempted mass gain (2 years ago), nasty muscle injury in the leg

It is my understanding that at 22 years old, I should be bulletproof. The items listed above simply don't add up to my terribly low Testosterone. What is going on? I'll provide any more info when requested.

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 25, 2013
at 03:07 PM

Thanks very much for this. After the accepted-answer post provided those research links, I went on a reading binge. It seems like you are spot on with the lower protein, higher fat/carb, loooots of calories.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on May 24, 2013
at 02:02 AM

I love the NEG for straight forward information that anyone can verify via some google research of via an actual real TRT doctor, not some schmuck that does not know the dosing schedule of Test E nor the ancillaries that are needed. At the end of the day the OP will need to figure this out for himself or wind up 1-miserable, 2-ball-less and 3-with breasts

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on May 23, 2013
at 06:28 PM

Ok that's good. Still irresponsible IMO to just give T at 22 and move one. Something is wrong and it's not a magical disappearance of that hormone.

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:13 PM

I'll look more into this, thanks. I realize that almost everything we eat makes contact with some sort of plastic at one point or another. If this truly is the cause, then it really sucks to be so susceptible to xenoestrogens.

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:08 PM

To be clear, the endocrinologist did do a LH/FSH panel, and everything looked normal. I know that's not an end-all guarantee, but the odds of a false positive (or something else going haywire) are pretty low. He did diagnose me with hypogonadism. Thanks for the advice.

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:06 PM

This is very interesting. Admittedly, I've been too low carb for quite a while. In recent months, I've started to stack on the carbs. These studies show upwards of 30% fat. That seems low for a paleo diet. I probably run 40/40/20 pro/fat/carb. Hmm.

Ede98d8569d42885d70e07c92d3df34e

(623)

on May 23, 2013
at 08:02 AM

Yeah I dont have studies to back this up, but if you have a quick read through either of those links I provided you'll see there are 1000s of guys who have cured the symptoms the OP mentioned, as well as other diseases from depression to ED to social anxiety and panic attacks. It makes sense too, from an evolutionary standpoint. If your brain thinks its DNA is being spread to many fertile female partners each day via pornhub, it sees its job as done. If your brain thinks its not getting enough action, it ups testosterone to increase sex drive, pheromones and make the body more attractive.

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on May 23, 2013
at 05:41 AM

The compound in broccoli is DIM and you can also buy it in a supplement. Fiber supposedly helps clear out estrogens too. Getting a cholesterol blood test would be a great idea, if your CHO is too low that could be a root cause.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:31 AM

i've seen that 1st study before, prob linked by yourself or someone else here...the Fig 2. graphic sums most of it up in one picture (from a macro diet perspective)...1. increase the ratio of protein to carbs & Testosterone goes down (so don't do that)...2. increase saturated &/or monounsaturated fats & Testosterone goes up...3. increase the ratio of poly to sat fats & Testosterone goes down (so don't do that).

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:30 AM

i seen that 1st study before, prob linked by yourself or someone else here...the Fig 2. graphic sums most of it up in one picture (from a macro diet perspective)...1. increase the ratio of protein to carbs & Testosterone goes down (so don't do that)...2. increase saturated &/or monounsaturated fats & Testosterone goes up...3. increase the ratio of poly to sat fats & Testosterone goes down (so don't do that).

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:46 AM

I haven't seen any evidence to indicate porn would make your test clinically low though, that seems like a stretch to me.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:45 AM

Studies show porn to increase testosterone. Ejaculating skyrockets prolactin I think it is though and test plummets. That's why after sex you may totally lose interest in a novel mate.

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:08 AM

I'll give that a quick read, if only because it makes no intuitive sense to me.

8d386bf2c5ba20fcc1a2a0c805b217c9

(743)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:08 AM

+1, should've mentioned that in my post too. Porn is like visualized sugar consumption!

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:04 AM

lol. .

  • F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

    asked by

    (10)
  • Views
    2.6K
  • Last Activity
    1283D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

9 Answers

best answer

5
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on May 23, 2013
at 02:07 AM

If you're eating high protein, low carbohydrate diet (as many paleo diets are) try lowering protein and increasing carbs, as a fair amount of evidence suggests this can increase testosterone levels:

http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49.full http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0024320587900865 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20091182

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:30 AM

i seen that 1st study before, prob linked by yourself or someone else here...the Fig 2. graphic sums most of it up in one picture (from a macro diet perspective)...1. increase the ratio of protein to carbs & Testosterone goes down (so don't do that)...2. increase saturated &/or monounsaturated fats & Testosterone goes up...3. increase the ratio of poly to sat fats & Testosterone goes down (so don't do that).

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:06 PM

This is very interesting. Admittedly, I've been too low carb for quite a while. In recent months, I've started to stack on the carbs. These studies show upwards of 30% fat. That seems low for a paleo diet. I probably run 40/40/20 pro/fat/carb. Hmm.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:31 AM

i've seen that 1st study before, prob linked by yourself or someone else here...the Fig 2. graphic sums most of it up in one picture (from a macro diet perspective)...1. increase the ratio of protein to carbs & Testosterone goes down (so don't do that)...2. increase saturated &/or monounsaturated fats & Testosterone goes up...3. increase the ratio of poly to sat fats & Testosterone goes down (so don't do that).

2
742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on May 24, 2013
at 12:25 AM

I was on the same boat, here are the things that really got things going:

  • Lower your protein. My libido and energy levels actually improved with a lower protein intake. By low I mean <120.
  • Increase your intake of refined carbohydrate. Start eating white rice. You need to fuel your activity. Sweet potato just wasn't cutting it.
  • Decrease your intake of vegetables and fiber in general. Vegetables, especially if eaten in large quantities, have a lot of chemical compounds that could fuck you up. Use them as a garnish to your main starch and meat, but don't go crazy with them.
  • Introduce dairy. Try fermented dairy, such as yogurt if you can't handle dairy. It helped me either through a higher intake of bio-available calcium or because of the increased caloric load I was getting from consuming it.
  • Eat mostly red meat, screw chicken.
  • Lower your intake of refined fats such as tallow, olive oil, etc, and just use them sparingly for cooking. DON'T DUMP THEM ON EVERYTHING. If you want to eat fat, get it from whole food sources such as avocados, almonds, meat. Refined fats lack vitamins and minerals which are needed to process the fat better.
  • MOST IMPORTANTLY!! START EATING LIKE A MONSTER. Calories are king when it comes to this kind of thing. If you are following a very strict paleo diet, you probably aren't getting sufficient calories. Try feeling like a beast when you are only consuming vegetables and meat and you would probably fail miserably.

The things I mentioned above all helped me increase my testosterone (evidenced through better recovery, spontaneous boners, better sleep and increased strength). A lot of the stuff, like the introduction of dairy and nuts, probably helped because of the increased calorie load, which is the most important thing when it comes to increasing T levels.

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 25, 2013
at 03:07 PM

Thanks very much for this. After the accepted-answer post provided those research links, I went on a reading binge. It seems like you are spot on with the lower protein, higher fat/carb, loooots of calories.

2
8d386bf2c5ba20fcc1a2a0c805b217c9

(743)

on May 23, 2013
at 12:53 AM

Hmm.. it's kind of a worsening-cycle. Low testosterone is not allowing you to work out and sleep as much, which in turns further reduces your testosterone. Off the top of my head, I know saturated fat and cholesterol consumption is important for the synthesis of ALL hormones/steroids in the body. Zinc is another factor. Have you been eating lots of red meat and egg yolks? Any oysters?

Also, have you had any symptoms exclusive to raised estrogen (not actually having high estrogen levels on a blood test, just the symptoms)? Because of the chemicals that we incidentally consume, our bodies are inundated with xenoestrogens - chemicals that mimic estrogen. I actually talk about this in my blog if you're interested in reading. http://www.brainbodybelly.com/2013/03/24/feminizaton-of-the-modern-world/

Basically, everything we eat is wrapped-up/contained/stored/heated/etc. in plastic. The food leeches the chemicals from the plastic at varying rates, depending on the situation, and then we consume the food, along with the xenoestrogens.

Again, off the top of my head, a compound in broccoli helps combat the influx of xenoestrogens.

But then again, keep seeing your doctors. Who knows if you caught something overseas. Good luck, dude. Being young and feeling old sucks. I empathize with you.

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:13 PM

I'll look more into this, thanks. I realize that almost everything we eat makes contact with some sort of plastic at one point or another. If this truly is the cause, then it really sucks to be so susceptible to xenoestrogens.

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on May 23, 2013
at 05:41 AM

The compound in broccoli is DIM and you can also buy it in a supplement. Fiber supposedly helps clear out estrogens too. Getting a cholesterol blood test would be a great idea, if your CHO is too low that could be a root cause.

1
2edfcc5c8044bbb4f22ba6ea4289f592

(1398)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:20 PM

I agree that its definitely not ideal to receive test injections at 22, as that will down-regulate your bodies endogenous production of it. It appears that's happened. Something you might not find on this site but could be worth your while is to check out what bodybuilder's do after their steroid cycles to get their hormone production going again. They call it Post Cycle Therapy. I would also suggest you massively increase your saturated fat consumption. Saturated fat and cholesterol are integral in the production of all the sex hormones. I believe raising saturated fat consumption has been shown to raise T levels in those with low T (I don't have any studies to back that up right now, but I am pretty certain in that statement). Also, heavy, low rep, strength training will help to raise your testosterone levels. Even more so when coupled with a greater consumption of saturated fat. Porn and sex also do help. I would say 3+ times a day to get a real boost. I would recommend you try some supplements as well. Large amounts of D Aspartic Acid, Tribulus, and ashwaganda. Also, start taking some ZMA. A zinc deficiency will cause all hell with your testosterone production. I agree with the above in that adding carbs may help, but I think saturated animal fat should be your biggest priority if you want to raise testosterone. Check out Jamie Lewis of Chaos and Pain. Just reading his blog will probably raise your test levels. I'm including some stuff he's written about raising T levels. WARNING: extremely NSFW and not for the easily offended:

http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2009/05/how-to-raise-your-test-levels-like.html?zx=55bc752e842344c7

http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2011/01/you-can-never-have-too-much.html?zx=bf932fcfc2322759

He's written more on the subject.

1
Ede98d8569d42885d70e07c92d3df34e

(623)

on May 23, 2013
at 12:56 AM

Do you masturbate/watch porn a lot? Sounds crude, but this definitely has a massive impact on testosterone levels. I recently gave up masturbation altogether, and couldn't believe the differences it made to my energy levels, sleep quality, confidence, motivation, sex drive and workout quality. I haven't had any blood tests done, but I can just tell my testosterone has skyrocketed. Check these out for more info:

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

http://www.reddit.com/r/nofap/

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:04 AM

lol. .

Ede98d8569d42885d70e07c92d3df34e

(623)

on May 23, 2013
at 08:02 AM

Yeah I dont have studies to back this up, but if you have a quick read through either of those links I provided you'll see there are 1000s of guys who have cured the symptoms the OP mentioned, as well as other diseases from depression to ED to social anxiety and panic attacks. It makes sense too, from an evolutionary standpoint. If your brain thinks its DNA is being spread to many fertile female partners each day via pornhub, it sees its job as done. If your brain thinks its not getting enough action, it ups testosterone to increase sex drive, pheromones and make the body more attractive.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:45 AM

Studies show porn to increase testosterone. Ejaculating skyrockets prolactin I think it is though and test plummets. That's why after sex you may totally lose interest in a novel mate.

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:08 AM

I'll give that a quick read, if only because it makes no intuitive sense to me.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:46 AM

I haven't seen any evidence to indicate porn would make your test clinically low though, that seems like a stretch to me.

8d386bf2c5ba20fcc1a2a0c805b217c9

(743)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:08 AM

+1, should've mentioned that in my post too. Porn is like visualized sugar consumption!

0
1a91ec126b2b4189539b028d2767e518

(320)

on May 23, 2013
at 09:46 PM

Are you smoking pot? It can lower testosterone and play havoc with hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal axis.

0
8ce8b8fd33944e67dfd6277e7b671815

(327)

on May 23, 2013
at 05:50 AM

I would say check your b1, vitamin d, vitamin a, vitamin k,zinc, magnesiums, and folate levels. Also don't be afraid to add carbs. Carbs really helped me out and upped my test lvls for sure, after a big work out usually mix some honey in with some sweet potatoes. Try and aim for around 300 carbs for a while and just experiment around with carbs. You could also be overtraining, so quit training for a month and see if that helps.

0
705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

on May 23, 2013
at 05:39 AM

For your MD to give you T without testing LH/FSH is completely irresponsible - they failed to diagnose you with either primary or secondary hypogonadism. The fact that you're not responding to the T is rather strange though.

Unless you are primary, adding in extra T is not a great idea at 22. It will completely shut down your natural production even more. It's a band-aid not a solution. If your doc didn't even test you for LH/FSH then you need to find a new one ASAP.

From what you've said, I'd guess bad sleep is causing this problem and not a symptom of it. Look to digestive issues though too. "98% paleo" is great but if you have leaky gut or food allergies it may not be sufficient.

Finally, get off paleohacks and look for TRT forums. People here don't know anything about hormone replacement. Hormone replacement just ain't paleo.

F4380894d84edf7f07942719dc105a9f

(10)

on May 23, 2013
at 01:08 PM

To be clear, the endocrinologist did do a LH/FSH panel, and everything looked normal. I know that's not an end-all guarantee, but the odds of a false positive (or something else going haywire) are pretty low. He did diagnose me with hypogonadism. Thanks for the advice.

705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

(1013)

on May 23, 2013
at 06:28 PM

Ok that's good. Still irresponsible IMO to just give T at 22 and move one. Something is wrong and it's not a magical disappearance of that hormone.

-1
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on May 23, 2013
at 04:15 PM

Geez, I am sorry to tell you this but your going to need 200mg Test E WEEKLY not every other week. It has way too short of a half life to be taken 14 days apart. Your also going to need HCG, hopefully you have it now, or else your balls are going to literally dissapear. And finally, you need an anti-estrogen, because your body is likely converting some of that T to Estrogen which is not what you want.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on May 24, 2013
at 02:02 AM

I love the NEG for straight forward information that anyone can verify via some google research of via an actual real TRT doctor, not some schmuck that does not know the dosing schedule of Test E nor the ancillaries that are needed. At the end of the day the OP will need to figure this out for himself or wind up 1-miserable, 2-ball-less and 3-with breasts

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!