I'm reaching a 6 months period of strict Paleo. I literally didn't cheat once since the beginning of March.
It seems like I managed to enhance my body quite bit, even overcame hypothyroid symptoms. No constipation anymore, clear thinking, lot of vitality, skin is great... I'm on the right track that's for sure.
However, no matter what I do, my cavities just won't go away. There's not even a sign of reminerlization, that something is actually recovering back there, and I swear at times it even seems to get bigger.
Besides eating very strictly & balanced, I also supplement with GP's FCLO/Butter Oil every day for the past 4 months or so. That in itself is surprising, after reading so many testimonies of recovering after only a month. Oil Pulling every morning for 20 min, at times before bed aswell. Not using a toothpaste since going Paleo. My general mouth condition is awesome. Waking up in the morning I don't even feel the need to brush, no gum bleeding/bruises whatsoever. Taking eggshell calcium (in ACV). Two weeks now on homemade Kefir, cup/day. Bone Broths, Greens, Maca Root, Sauerkraut, Kelp, Himalayas Sea Salt... been adding & trying so many things (simultaneously), nothing works. Frustrating!
The cavities should be rather new. I didn't even notice them before going Paleo, and my latest visit to the dentist about 2 years ago didn't reveal even one. Considering such things aren't developing in one day, I'd say they are rather new.
I thought that maybe I lack in calcium, but I read in several places around here that calcium intake is overrated, and we don't really need to strive to the recommended 1000mg/day, especially if we're not consuming ingredients that depletes our bones out of calcium (such as sugar).
Another option is Vitamin D. After my latest blood test revealed extremely low on the vitamin, I dragged myself out to the sun every day for full body 30 min exposure without soap washing afterwards. Beforehand I barely saw the sun. I've been doing it for 2 months now, so I wonder if it's enough to restore my storage. I do feel much better ever since, so it should be rising.
The options as I see it is either I do really miss something, or the recovery process is just much slower for whatever reason. Either way, it would really help to know where I'm standing. The FCLO/Butter Oil is extremely pricey, and if I'm taking it in vain it's a bummer. I can't really feel healthy unless my teeth are top notch. What do you guys think?
asked byVanilla (45)
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on August 18, 2013
at 08:45 PM
Two years? That is more than enough time for cavities to form! There are some things you can do to improve your oral health, but once the enamel has been breached, it will not come back. Carious lesions can remineralize. Outright cavities cannot. Teeth are not soft tissue - they won't repair themselves the way muscle and bone will. You say you think they are getting bigger, well, they are. They will eat their way into your dentin, breach your roots. You can develop an abscess which will kill the bone in the surrounding area. It will hurt a lot. You would, at that point, need endodontic therapy and a crown, if it can still be saved. Extraction may be your only option at that point.
Please just go to the dentist. Get fillings, get crowns, whatever is necessary. Use toothpaste, a soft toothbrush, and floss.
You can have whatever ideals you want about modern things not being necessary to maintain health, and perhaps that's true. But once the problem is there, we have modern means to address them. Be "natural" in preventative care if you must, but once an actual problem presents itself, modern medicine trumps "natural remedies."
Former dental professional here. No reputable dentist believes in "remineralization" to fix cavities.
on August 18, 2013
at 06:41 PM
You might look into whether you have Zn or Mg deficiencies -- Zn increases salivary circulation of Ca, if I'm not recalling incorrectly. Mg is necessary for Ca absorption & also essential overall.
Apart from that, I have noticed problems with enamel degradation & a feeling of acidity when taking raw ACV (1-4 tsp/1-2 days) straight. My teeth were hardening or potentially remineralizing before experimenting with ACV but stopped and felt softer, or similar to degrading teeth (deeper pits, sensitivity where there was none). It went away completely after I stopped ingesting ACV straight, despite the potential digestion benefits.
Cocoa (chocolate) also has quite a bit of interesting research regarding protecting tooth enamel, much of which is suggesting that it's potentially more effective than fluoride. N=1, I consume homemade unsweetened chocolate daily, and it seems to harden my tooth enamel significantly. The gaps/holes also feel far less susceptible/painful, and potentially smaller than when I've forgotten to eat it.
Calcium intake being adequate might actually be a very valid concern, especially if trying to heal teeth, but I'm unsure about how to go about testing whether there's a deficiency or excess and it's absorbing properly. (As Matt pointed out in an earlier PaleoHacks question, it's entirely possible that "just get enough K2/A/D/Mg/Zn, etc., and you don't need to worry about the Ca; you'll absorb it fine." is potentially a bit too blas??.)
Out of fascination -- what is eggshell calcium, or how do you make it?
(Another possibility is that the theory that vinegar extracts Ca, etc. from bones in broth or other things like solid eggshells is in fact untrue, which would lead to a far lower calcium consumption level than you might have thought. )
There were some lab tests of bone broths which - if I recall correctly - showed little or no calcium increase in the liquid after cold & vinegar, heated 72 hrs & no vinegar, and heated 72 hrs & vinegar, as compared to the control (water & ingredients, no cooking...?). Will try to find the link to that study, as it was interesting.
on August 18, 2013
at 01:27 PM
Remineralization might be a pipedream. I've only seem WAP types talking as if this is possible, conventional dentistry says it's not likely. I myself have been doing supplemental D & K with lots of vitamin A with the hopes of keeping everything healthy and healing some demineralized areas. Uninsured so I'm not sure what's going on now, will see the results when I'm soon gainfully employed!
on August 29, 2013
at 11:37 PM
One thing I don't see listed in any answers - You need vitamin K2 along with A and D3 and some calcium to get any real benefit. After I read "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox", I started supplementing K2, mainly for prevention of CVD. To my great surprise after a couple of months two teeth that had minor pain after occasionally eating something sweet and/or sour and brushing, changed and the pain disappeared. The teeth became slick and pain free.
I also chew xylitol gum and use xylitol toothpaste. Xylitol tends to reduce the bacteria that cause tooth decay and raise mouth PH. I get about 10 grams of xylitol a day.
My teeth are in better shape now than a few years ago. You should also know that I have not been to the dentist in over 20 years. I just don't trust them.
on May 31, 2016
at 07:35 PM
I recommend... For the first 100 days: (a )100,000 IU of Vitamin D3 per day for 100 days ~~~and~~~~ (b) 10,000-20,000 mcg of Vitamin K2 (in form MK7 or higher -- but not in MK4 form) per day for 100 days. After that, drop down to a maintenance dose of: (c) 20,000 IU of Vitamin D3 per day~~~~~and~~~~ (d) 2,000 - 4,000 mcg of Vitamin K2 (in form MK7 or higher -- but not in MK4 form) per day. This stupid website won't let me post my links to some vitamin D3/K2 articles on my health blog and where to find the best prices for vitamin D3 & K2. If you want these links shoot me an email -- maitra.r(at)gmail(dot)com ------------------------- Also, make sure you are taking enough Magnesium, and Phosphorus through food nutrition or supplementation. Also if you want THE BEST price on K2 in the (MK9 form) search Amazon for "Oxford Vitality - Vitamin K2 Extra 500mcg Tablets"----- the price is £36.99 + £7.86 Shipping = £44.85 = US$72.72. ---------------------- If you want THE BEST price on 10,000 IU tablets go to supplementwarehouse(dot)com/vitamin-d3-10-000-iu-clearance.html -------------------- my articles are on makebetterhabits(dot)wordpress(dot)com/2015/06/16/vitamin-k2/
on August 30, 2013
at 03:31 AM
Vanilla, I have some ideas for you, based on my personal experience. I have been trying to improve my health as well. I also have the HVBO with CLO. This is what worked for me. I eat alot of meat, and I noticed one day that my teeth were hurting, it felt like they were being DE-mineralized with something. This was after brushing with toothepaste, which I had previously stopped, at the advice of the WAPF ideas. So I've stopped toothepaste again. The pain hasn't come back.
Another thing I did - I was frying ALL my meat in cast iron pans. My whole way of eating changed when I started boiling meat, like the GAPS diet. I high recommend getting a slow cooker. I always have some meat going in it. I clung on to frying meat for a long long time, but Dr Campbell Mcbride was really onto something with boiling meat (Sally Fallon also endorses the GAPS diet). I like meat is best if eaten raw/rare, or gently boiled, I now believe.
I never fry anymore. All of the pans leech something into the food: aluminum, iron, flouride from teflon, etc. One idea I had was that the cast iron was doing it, as iron competes for absorption with zinc, calcium, and other minerals. Seriously consider slow cooking, cause I resisted it for a long time but I wish I had started it a long time ago!
Another thing I do occasionally is open a probiotic capsule in my mouth, and use it like toothepaste on my tongue and teeth and everywhere. This really makes my mouth feel cleaner.
My teeth feel very strong now. My jaw and my teeth feel stronger. I feel like they have been 'remineralized,' though I wasn't primarily trying to heal any cavities, my teeth feel like they can chew and tear meat better now.
Another thing I recently got into, though this way after my teeth felt better, is organ meats. I'm big into these things now, I think they are saving my life! I had been eating liver for 6 months, but then I got into the others and they all seem to benefit the body part that you're eating. Ie, liver helps with energy, heart heals your heart, tripe heals your bowels, etc. Oh, and glycine/gelatin is a miracle, it's not really an organ meat I guess but it comes from the weird parts like feet and neck and oxtails, again part of the GAPS diet and something I've been eating for a long time. I think it's not optional for a carnivorous diet, as a diet high in muscle meats seems to increase the need for collagen even more than a high carb diet. When I don't eat it I always get intense cravings for it. I think getting the glycine is even more important than eating all those organs.
P.S. I also eat some meat raw or very rare, it is very easy on the stomach, and I think alot of b vitamins are killed by heat.
on April 12, 2018
at 04:48 AM
Here is the main point of the question “…. I swear at times it even seems to get bigger …” All re-mineralizing methods listed so far are great ways but you are not focusing on the most dangerous thing that is going on in your mouth which is the caries infection that is destroying the external and internal part of some of your dental elements.
You can re-mineralize the enamel of your teeth in some cases only; for example after enamel erosion caused by whatever reason. When a mouth infection has started your dentist only can stop it by treating properly the affected tooth (filling, root canal treatment, etc.).
As all body infections, a tooth cavity is dangerous because bad bacteria, after destroying the enamel of the dental crown, can get access to the pulp chamber which is the vital part of each tooth because it contains blood vessels, nerves and cells.
Here is the bad part. When the infection has already necrotized the dental pulp, it tries to get out of the tooth through the root tip. Our body tries to fight the infection building a kind of barrier around it and this barrier is usually called abscess (periapical abscess or, more commonly, tooth abscess).
if leaved untreated, there is the possibility that the infection can get access to the bloodstream and affect other parts/organs of your body.
Instead of to wait for cavity re-mineralization (by its own), it is much more better to book an appointment with your dentist a get the tooth conventionally treated. In this way only you can save your tooth and be sure to avoid the infection to spread.
Here https://www.dottox.com there are more articles about dental care.
In order to prevent tooth cavities, severe gum disease or other mouth pathologies, you should avoid to skip professionally teeth cleaning by the dentist that should be done every 6 months. During the examination, the dentist may take x-rays exam to discover hidden small cavities in between your teeth. Caught in time, small cavities are easy and cheap to cure.
on August 19, 2013
at 06:41 PM
What toothpaste are you using? Really you want one with nanohydroxyapatite - I'm using the one from Sensodyne (repair toothpaste with 'novamin'). I sometimes put it in a dental tray and leave it on for 5 mins
Brush before and after breakfast Chew Xylitol gum after meals
on August 19, 2013
at 01:16 AM
Check out what Dr Ellie (dentist) has to say: http://www.drellie.com/
maybe add some birch twigs...
on August 18, 2013
at 12:46 PM
It sounds like you have improved your life greatly except for this one area. That is a real positive. Looking at your routine makes me think that the acidity of ACV has to have something to do with teeth enamel. Do you rinse after drinking? I'm sure this process takes time.