10

votes

Dentist causes cavities?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 22, 2012 at 4:27 PM

I'm 27 years old. 99% Paleo diet (Micro-brew beer is my kryptonite). I eat NO SUGAR. I never really did. Even when eating a SAD, sugary stuff was always too rich for me. I have lost 55 pounds and I have never felt happier and healthier. In an attempt to raise my all-around health, I decided not to ignore my dental health. I had not been to the dentist in almost 10 years until about 6 months ago. I never felt that I needed to but someone talked me in to it. I never had braces, retainer, or any other dental work. I brush my teeth 2-3 times a day depending on what I eat and how my mouth feels, I use flouride-free toothpaste because I disagree with the aluminum industry (long story), and I always floss; every day.

After my trip to the dentist, my teeth haven't been the same. I thought the method of scraping my teeth with a tiny meat hook seemed medieval but I went with it. Now, I am getting cavities. I am getting them in weird places. Not on the top of my teeth where food would sit and not between my teeth but on 2 of my molars, I am forming tender places halfway between my gum line and the top of the tooth. I have never had a cavity but I assume this is what it is but I cant see it.

Did the dentist scrape the enamel off of my teeth so I would get cavities and have to come back? It might sound crazy but that is how I feel. For 10 years, I never had problems with my teeth until I went to the dentist.

F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on March 20, 2013
at 11:51 AM

did they heal??

F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on March 20, 2013
at 11:42 AM

Have you disappeared pre-existing cavities? What was your k2 source?

F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on March 20, 2013
at 11:31 AM

Recently went to dentist with no real dental pain/issues and told I have everything wrong. Now I have some noticeable pain, I think it might be mental.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on August 23, 2012
at 03:41 AM

AHA that evil FRUCTOSE strikes again

902a7cd8f96bbc917a04e92b1f49dbd7

(787)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:46 PM

It sounds more to me like he's referring to the buccal pit (halfway between the gumline and top of the tooth), which is a really common place for to have a cavity - that a dentist will check for. Oral B works well too, and was slightly cheaper in my area. It's counterintuitive, but electric toothbrushes actually reduce tooth abrasion as compared to manual toothbrushes. They basically allow you to clean without using excessive pressure - meaning you remove more plaque and less enamel.

Dcd6927a3606b66f3bfb1c5c28d67a6f

on April 23, 2012
at 12:28 AM

Good luck, Matt! I hope you managed to cure your cavities! That wold give the rest of us hope! :)

Cf626d3fba66c18297b3f1116a920e58

(3417)

on April 22, 2012
at 08:48 PM

Right and wrong, Matt. A SAD diet pretty much has chelates at every meal and snack. A paleo-esque diet generally only has them when plants are eaten, and to my knowledge, some chelates (phytates included) are not thermostable. I usually cook my greens in some way for that reason. But in any case, given the deets on this guy's situation, I agree that his issue almost certainly has nothing to do with phytic acid intake. If he's really being "pure", then it's probably just coincidental, transient sensitivity that will pass. It happens. Disease typically doesn't manifest without a cause.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on April 22, 2012
at 07:18 PM

Phytic acid is a cop-out paleo excuse for not eating grains. Nearly all plant matter contains some phytic acid (some more than grains). Can't imagine that he's drinking enough microbrew beer that he's leeching calcium out of his body via the phytic acid present.

Medium avatar

(287)

on April 22, 2012
at 06:24 PM

Thanks a TON! It is good to hear from a professional. I rarely drink beer but it is the one cheat I have. This phytic acid business is all new to me so the hunt is on. I'll be doing my homework. Thanks.

Medium avatar

(287)

on April 22, 2012
at 05:52 PM

This intrigues me. The research is ON! Thanks!

Medium avatar

(287)

on April 22, 2012
at 05:52 PM

My only cheat is beer. I rarely use sweeteners, only a small bit in salad dressing. I have been paleo for almost a year so most of the time I wasn't going to the dentist I was eating SAD. When eating SAD, I had heartburn and high BP which could have caused some tooth decay. I am a very high saliva producer. Old decay is a possibility and I do eat a lot of fruit (4-5 servings/day). Zinc and Vit K are possible. I will have to check. What concerned me is the timing of tooth decay. After 10 years, I notice decay 6 mon after seeing the dentist. I will check into your suggestions esp Zinc. THANKS!

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17 Answers

best answer

4
1e36119906da54831601a7c23674f581

(698)

on April 22, 2012
at 05:52 PM

Quickly do this: 1. Ensure you are eating all as many fat-soluble vitamins as you can, including K2 and D. 2. Ensure you are eating a mineral rich diet (from your post it seems you have this down already). 3. Eliminate as many sources of phytic acid from your diet as possible. 4. Watch your cavities disappear

F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on March 20, 2013
at 11:42 AM

Have you disappeared pre-existing cavities? What was your k2 source?

best answer

24
Cf626d3fba66c18297b3f1116a920e58

(3417)

on April 22, 2012
at 06:15 PM

I'm a dental student (in your state, no less). Might as well give this one a go.

First, you said you drink beer. Beer is acidic and to the best of my knowledge will usually contain phytic acids, so long as it is wheat beer or something similar. Depending upon your frequency, this could be contributing. Snacking or drinking BETWEEN MEALS increases your chances of developing a cavity several times over. If you keep drinking beer, do so only with meals.

Removal of plaque using planing tools like your dentist used doesn't harm enamel, and even if it did, it would cause nothing beyond minor surface flaws which are a normal wear phenomenon in the first place. You'd still have plenty of underlying enamel in any case.

Plaque is not necessarily an indicator of potential cavities or the development of cavities. There are only a few bacteria out of hundreds, if not thousands, in your mouth that directly contribute to the formation of cavities, and of these, all of them grow preferentially under high sucrose and/or high fructose conditions. Starches, proteins, and fats do not appear to cause the cavity-causing plaque to overgrow.

There's no reason why scraping of the tooth would lead to novel oral flora or the overgrowth of cavity-causing bacteria. Every time you brush, you remove what is called the salivary pellicle from the tooth surface. This is a layer of proteins and other organic material that your saliva deposits on your teeth. This is also the scaffold on which bacteria adhere to your teeth. Within a couple of hours of brushing or removal of plaque with a planing tool, the pellicle will deposit again, and bacteria will again adhere to it.

As others have said, continue to eat healthily. The more saturated your saliva is with minerals, the better of a job it will do redepositing the minerals bacterial acids sequester. Minimize overly acidic food intake, especially liquids. Cavemen didn't brush, yet they only 1 in 10 of them exhibit evidence of a cavity on fossils. Diet is the key factor.

Sensitivity does not necessarily mean cavity. In fact, I would say it is a cavity less often than it is something else. It could just be any number of things, and I can't even begin to predict what it may be over the internet.

Hope you find your answer within that mess.

Cf626d3fba66c18297b3f1116a920e58

(3417)

on April 22, 2012
at 08:48 PM

Right and wrong, Matt. A SAD diet pretty much has chelates at every meal and snack. A paleo-esque diet generally only has them when plants are eaten, and to my knowledge, some chelates (phytates included) are not thermostable. I usually cook my greens in some way for that reason. But in any case, given the deets on this guy's situation, I agree that his issue almost certainly has nothing to do with phytic acid intake. If he's really being "pure", then it's probably just coincidental, transient sensitivity that will pass. It happens. Disease typically doesn't manifest without a cause.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on April 22, 2012
at 07:18 PM

Phytic acid is a cop-out paleo excuse for not eating grains. Nearly all plant matter contains some phytic acid (some more than grains). Can't imagine that he's drinking enough microbrew beer that he's leeching calcium out of his body via the phytic acid present.

Medium avatar

(287)

on April 22, 2012
at 06:24 PM

Thanks a TON! It is good to hear from a professional. I rarely drink beer but it is the one cheat I have. This phytic acid business is all new to me so the hunt is on. I'll be doing my homework. Thanks.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on August 23, 2012
at 03:41 AM

AHA that evil FRUCTOSE strikes again

4
A31b063c5866c08aa9968a8f2f1e9949

(1721)

on April 22, 2012
at 05:11 PM

I think they are probably not trying to harm your teeth, but that is not to say that some of your problems are not related to your trip to the dentist.

I would refer you to the work of the Weston A. Price foundation as there is a lot of research on improving dental health, healing cavities, etc. One post I found about healing weakened teeth/strengthening enamel/etc. is here.

Hope this at least points your research in the right direction.

Medium avatar

(287)

on April 22, 2012
at 05:52 PM

This intrigues me. The research is ON! Thanks!

2
902a7cd8f96bbc917a04e92b1f49dbd7

(787)

on May 26, 2012
at 06:04 PM

It has been established that using a dental explorer (pointed pick) to assess whether or not a tooth lesion has "cavitated", or collapsed, can in fact cause collapse itself. There's been a push from professional organizations and dental schools to be as conservative as possible with the explorer, especially since evidence shows it does not improve detection. You can politely ask your dentist to be as conservative as possible with the explorer before he examines you... most dentists will appreciate your engagement. There's also some concern that the explorer can transfer decay bacteria from a cavity into other vulnerable places in the mouth.

As for cleaning your teeth, there's still no great alternative (that I know of) to using metal tools to scrape off tartar. The combination of polishing and scaling does in fact remove some enamel, usually on the order of nanometers. Still, cleaning tartar and smoothing the enamel surface is definitely worth it because it discourages future decay.

The only exception is if you no longer produce tartar. Part of this is genetic, but you can in fact take care of you teeth well enough that you have no real tartar to speak of. A combination of reducing grains, increasing fat soluble vitamins, xylitol, Dr. Ellie's system of mouthwashes, being careful to get enough minerals, minimizing in-between meal snacks, and simply rinsing my mouth out with water after eating (we have hard, alkaline water) has made going to the dentist every six months no longer make sense for me. I just don't produce tartar anymore.

2
6541df151f930cadae5ee81ca52966ab

on April 23, 2012
at 12:44 AM

Hi Todd, I'm a dental hygienist, the lesion you are describing sounds like gingival recession, which is an area where your gum line has receded or abrasion, which is a "scooped out" area on the tooth. Both of which can be caused by brushing too hard, brushing back and forth instead of small circles, or brushing with a medium to hard bristled brush instead of soft. I see these conditions a lot in my patients that clench and grind their teeth too. If you're up to trying a new gentle brush that cleans very effectively, try a Sonicare. A visit back to your dentist should get you the proper diagnosis. If these areas are sensitive as well, I recommend Toms of Maine for sensitive teeth. Good luck Todd, and great job on the flossing;)

902a7cd8f96bbc917a04e92b1f49dbd7

(787)

on May 26, 2012
at 05:46 PM

It sounds more to me like he's referring to the buccal pit (halfway between the gumline and top of the tooth), which is a really common place for to have a cavity - that a dentist will check for. Oral B works well too, and was slightly cheaper in my area. It's counterintuitive, but electric toothbrushes actually reduce tooth abrasion as compared to manual toothbrushes. They basically allow you to clean without using excessive pressure - meaning you remove more plaque and less enamel.

2
1768059103bf2f72c308c2b3dee9906b

on April 22, 2012
at 05:28 PM

New oral flora since your visit to the dentist?

2
8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

on April 22, 2012
at 05:10 PM

What are your 1% cheats and how many servings of fruit do you eat per day?

Do you use any sweetener like maple syrup, agave, and/or honey?

How many years have you been Paleo during the 10 years you didn't go to the dentist?

Maybe we should do a survey as to how frequently people get their teeth cleaned?

You could have old tooth decay where the cavity is slowly growing and now it shows up?

Any other medical issues you might want to mention? Other inflammatory and/or autoimmune disease may affect the teeth and/or gums.

My friend who's a dentist has said most people fall into 1 of 2 categories typically which may be genetic to some degree:

1) high saliva producers - moist mouth - plaque producers but NOT cavities

2) low saliva producers - drier mouth - CAVITIES but not plaque

I can vouch for family and friends where this pattern holds true.

Are you getting enough zinc and Vitamin K?

http://paleohacks.com/questions/63215/could-zinc-and-k-2-be-a-1-2-punch-for-reversing-preventing-dental-caries#axzz1sn3sdLkZ

Medium avatar

(287)

on April 22, 2012
at 05:52 PM

My only cheat is beer. I rarely use sweeteners, only a small bit in salad dressing. I have been paleo for almost a year so most of the time I wasn't going to the dentist I was eating SAD. When eating SAD, I had heartburn and high BP which could have caused some tooth decay. I am a very high saliva producer. Old decay is a possibility and I do eat a lot of fruit (4-5 servings/day). Zinc and Vit K are possible. I will have to check. What concerned me is the timing of tooth decay. After 10 years, I notice decay 6 mon after seeing the dentist. I will check into your suggestions esp Zinc. THANKS!

1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on April 22, 2012
at 10:32 PM

This does sound all too familiar. I actually had a few years dentist-free, went in passed with flying colors, went paleo, went back to the dentist to find quite a few cavities. I've given myself 6 months now supplementing minerals, high dose D+K. I'm due again for a check-up. If they've healed, great, if not, well I face the drill. Nearly 20 years of SAD without a cavity, 6 months of paleo I ended up with a mouthful. Don't know what to make of that.

Dcd6927a3606b66f3bfb1c5c28d67a6f

on April 23, 2012
at 12:28 AM

Good luck, Matt! I hope you managed to cure your cavities! That wold give the rest of us hope! :)

F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on March 20, 2013
at 11:51 AM

did they heal??

0
81bd5ef56ab5d5defda9b9d2ed2c6871

(0)

on March 20, 2013
at 06:52 AM

I went western dental it's just like a fast food drive through. They work there people at once. Screw your teeth and most likely transfer viruses and bacteria from other patients. This place sucks.

They.try to take it out on their patients their corporate bills

0
81bd5ef56ab5d5defda9b9d2ed2c6871

(0)

on March 20, 2013
at 06:40 AM

No, you are not insane. I had the same experience. Mine was going in for a cleaning. Refill. Broken tooth. Needed crown. Then root camel. Seemed too shady. Most dentist are dishonest and train their technicians to lie just to bill the insurance and make more $$$. I recently overheard about a dentist in . USA. He intentionally damages clients teeth to create cavities or brake en for it to show on the x rays. Heard it from the assistant. Dentist threatens her to go along. Of course she is afraid of loosing her high paying job. Not all the dentist are this way but if you have that little feeling follow your instinct. This I heard from someone that works at a dental.office in WA USA

0
383127951e2e17f23b584cd3842bb796

(835)

on January 15, 2013
at 02:42 AM

sounds like you don't get enough calcium. eat some dairy

0
8ec672b3752720ce32566a71b562c624

on January 08, 2013
at 07:10 AM

X ray is two dimensional, sadly your mouth isn't. That's why they poke around in your mouth to check out if there is any cavities in there or not. Cleaning the teeth by dentist is very beneficial to health in many ways and i'm by no means saying that all the dentists know what they are doing but most do. When you get the cleaning done all that rot that has been there will get cleaned off, that kind of leaves your teeth 'exposed' and it will take a while for the sensitivity to set off. Also i get tartar build ups under my gums so the only thing to get it out from certain bits is that hook looking thing.

My dentist once mentioned that anything that gets done to your mouth could be compared to the same thing done to an actual bone. Like drilling the tooth is actually like drilling a bone which is not natural by any means and might leave lingering pain for a while afterwards.

I've had painful RCT done where i had pain for months until the teeth healed and the same goes for wisdom tooth removals. I get pain for weeks after getting my teeth cleaned, but i still think it's worth it in the long run :)

0
9856996aa3f57aa1c374629aa2425202

on August 23, 2012
at 03:35 AM

To Todd & Keena, Yes the dentists is at fault here and is the direct cause of the cavities you now have after using those unnecessary nasty explorers on your gums and teeth. I had an incompetent dentists scratch my front tooth with an explorer and flicked off enamel and the other front tooth that was a crown he sliced open the gum by scratching the gum area, I've been in pain for 8 years, I was misdiagnose as the pain was due to infection and advised by annother incompetent dentists to have RCT, made the pain worse. I had no problems with any of my teeth especially the front teeth.Then 8 yrs later had another dentists damage a molar by digging deep in between the gum and tooth even though I told him my previous experience with an explorer and that I didnt like them and not to touch my teeth and gums with it, he refused to respect my wishes and went and caused me excruciating pain, but when a dentists is negligent they will tell you they didn't do anything wrong and its your teeth. You won't get any help from his fellow colleagues because they all protect one another so will misdiagnose you and his fellow colleagues (other dentists) to protect himself and them, if you happened to take legal action for their negligence. Explorers actually cause cavities and do more damage then good. Common sense would prevail that putting a sharp needle like instrument into a persons mouth and dig around into their gums and scratch teeth is going to cause pain and damage. Do not trusts dentists, refuse to have any explorers put in your mouth and if they don't listen tell them there unprofessional and denying you your basic human rights and walk out.

0
Da88bb131520f912fdfd87d053711532

on May 26, 2012
at 03:40 PM

Well, I kind of agree with Todd because I never had cavities. But i noticed i was getting them when they would stick the pointed tool into my teeth to see if i have a cavity. It seemed unnecessary because they already took x-ray of my teeth and saw i didn't have any cavities. But afterward the cavities formed. Could the pointed tool have been the reason?

-1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 15, 2013
at 06:18 AM

i'm gay and having nothing important to post. i lick donkey balls. im random bye bye i wuv you!

-1
2dc620fd2dde827c9c8ca558e42cfebb

(-2)

on June 25, 2012
at 03:22 AM

Yes i totally agree the dentists wipe enamel off your teeth they are true scum...

-3
3a5e328340f33ca5c0526239743ac904

(-6)

on January 15, 2013
at 02:15 AM

DONT BE NAIVE WHEN DEALING WITH ANY OF THE MEDICAL PROFESSION --THEY ARE NO LESS GREEDY THAN YOUR SHADY AUTO MECHANIC. I AM 63 YEARS OLD AND LEARNED THE HARD WAY. WHEN SOMEONE HAS THE GUTS TO MAKE A LAW STATING THAT ALL CANCER RELATED SURGERIES MUST HAVE THE REMOVED TISSUE TESTED TO VERIFY STATUS YOU WILL SEE A DRAMATIC DROP IN BREAST CANCER SURGERY --REMEMBER THEY TESTED BEFORE SURGERY AND SAID SURGERY OR DIE --- I REALIZE DOCTORS MAKE HONEST MISTAKES BUT POST SURGERY TISSUE VERIFICATION WOULD AT THE VERY LEAST LET THE MIS DIAGNOISED BE ABLE TO ESCAPE THE FOLLOW UP CHEMO ETC.

BE VERY STRONG WILLED AND GET A SECOND OPINION FROM SOMEWHERE YOU ARE SURE IS NOT SOMEHOW AN RUBBER STAMP FOR THE FIRST OPINION. IT IS HARD TO DO THIS I KNOW, BUT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!

IN MY 20'S HAD ONE DENTIST PUT TO SMALLER THAN REQUIRED CAP ON A BROKEN FRONT BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE THE CORRECT SIZE TO MATCH AND THE S.O,B, GROUND ENAMEL OFF THE TEETH ON BOTH SIDES TO BETTER MATCH.AND TO TOP THAT OFF HE HAD A TEE OFF TIME AND WAS COMPLAINING TO HIS NURSE THAT HE MIGHT BE LATE. I COULD GO ON AND ON .

JUST A COUPLE SIDE NOTES I USED TO SELL CATERERS FOOD PRODUCTS FOR EVENTS AND THEY SAID DOCTORS WERE THE CHEAP SKATES !! THATS THE ONLY PLACE YOU WILL HEAR DOCTOR AND CHEAP TOGETHER IN A SENTENCE. IN ILLINOIS THE MEDICAL LOBBY,DEC/2012 RAISED HOLY HELL WHEN OUR BROKEN STATE WANTED TO RAISE DOCTORS LICENCE FEE SO THE STATE DID NOT RAISE IT --- THE FEE REMAINS $100. YES ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS . BE STRONG AND STAND UP FOR YOUR SELF AT ALL TIMES !!!!! PLEASE

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