7

votes

Is it unhealthy to use Psilocybin mushrooms regularly to initiate 100% control over my diet? Do you have control of your taste buds?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 17, 2012 at 6:13 AM

By regularly, I mean once or twice a week. That's all I need to ensure I have 100% complete control over my eating habits. I feel so light and pure on shrooms, that I want nothing "filthy" to pollute my body.

I eat a 100% healthy, no-cheating-not-even-a-little-bit and controlled diet in this state of higher consciousness. I reach a week-long euphoria and physical/mental balance. My resolve, determination and self-respect are through the roof.

Please do not mistake my psilocybin-induced zeal as orthorexia or anything other than a return to nature, optimal health and what we would be doing anyway if the Industrial age didn't happen. There is no room for unhealthy food in my diet, because deep down I know that it doesn't actually taste good once you do an autoimmune protocol and get control of your taste buds back and the negative effect to health isn't worth it. In this week-long trance, I don't really crave food, but I do feel a sensation of hunger and being better in-tune with my body. My body tells me exactly what I should eat at that time. It's a very clear internal message. My endurance increases at least 1.5x during this state and I can jog for longer as well as lift more. I feel like I could chase down a gazelle until it grew tired, laid down and accepted its fate as my dinner. My vision increases slightly and my mood (which is almost always positive and cheerful) is uplifted even more to a pure blissful state.

My problem solving skills take a noticeable turn for the better. It's hard to put into words, but I've noticed that in dealing with IRL issues, I'm able to think outside of the box and come up with creative solutions effortlessly.

Before you say anything along the lines of "life is about living, eat a cookie once in a while. Don't deprive yourself." it's worth noting I don't feel deprived at all. I can have that food around me and not give it a second glance. It's so liberating. I even willingly chose to try a bit of plum cake a co-worker had given me and it tasted foul. I'm sure the cake tastes good if you don't have control over your taste buds, but in this enlightened state, it tasted like bland mashed potatoes, but with the consistency of cake. It's just not worth it to eat unhealthy processed food or food that's not ideal for your personal physiology.

Is there such a thing as TOO good?

2006ccb2b60f9cc5ba5e8eff8a7abc46

(1533)

on June 17, 2013
at 01:45 AM

I came here to same this about two years too late :/

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 22, 2012
at 03:50 PM

http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/2c-smiles-killer-drug-every-parent-know-234200299.html

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 22, 2012
at 12:37 PM

@ Dan - I have finally watched all his videos. I have never been fond of him, (by the way, he believes in whole grains) but he only understands part of the picture. He uses faulty logic. All substances (including coffee, alcohol, etc. etc. etc.) are unnecessary and not beneficial for healthy well-being. If chimps don't do it - we can live without them.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 20, 2012
at 12:32 AM

And this is him talking about psychoactive substances: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtyhW9x3kdM . I hope you watch these videos in the order I posted them.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 20, 2012
at 12:31 AM

Oh, one more thing: This might be interesting to you. The speaker, Andrew Weil, is a leading researcher and pioneer of health. He founded and directs the Arizona Center for Integrative Medicine. This is him, recently, talking about health: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zy7D7X4Ejg

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 19, 2012
at 03:18 PM

Sorry for misunderstanding. My high horse is tired and it does not want to argue anymore. I tend to get emotional over substance use and abuse and can be confrontational about those issues - I cannot do anything about it. I am glad you have decided to stop showing me the ways in which it is useful, productive and wholesome - not in my book. No hard feelings.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 02:42 PM

I didn't say that they are universally safe. In fact I said that they are not for everyone, and could be dangerous. You misunderstand me. I am not denying the negative aspects of psychedelics. I'm just trying to get you off your high horse by showing the ways in which it's useful, productive, wholesome, etc. I'm going to stop right here because I can't stand your confrontational and condescending attitude.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 19, 2012
at 02:02 PM

@ Dan - I have a very low tolerance for people who approve/promote/encourage drug use. If you want to do it - sure, it is your choice. But make sure to educate yourself on ALL POSSIBLE negative side-effects and DO NOT CLAIM THEY ARE SAFE. If you do not know about mushrooms - don't go to the forest. If you do not know the berries - don't eat them. If you do not know much about the safety of recreational drugs - don't tell people they are safe. You do not really know.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:52 PM

@ Dan - I have checked out your links - not impressed. I have at least 5,000 things to say about each article, but it is not worth my time. We could argue back and forward and waste each other's time - it is not going to help either one of us. There is only one thing I want to say to you - I hope you find something that will bring joy and happiness to you ASIDE from the need to resort to using recreational drugs. And ANY sickness can be treated with things that are much better and safer than magic mushrooms.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:40 PM

Like a tool, it is powerfully dangerous when handled without care ("Hey dudes, let's get f***** up!"), and powerfully productive when handled with positive intention ("I'm going to set aside this day to learn something from this experience. I'll probably meditate.")

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:37 PM

VB, I'm truly sorry that two of your classmates died from drug use, whatever drug that may have been. Addictive drugs are for no one, and psychedelic drugs are certainly not for everyone. They are not for the faint of heart or mind. The intensity of the experience can drive people with pre-existing mental conditions/weaknesses to get themselves into dangerous situations. That doesn't mean you can say that the fungus itself is universally bad. Yes, there is a dark side of psychedelics. I am not denying that. I just want you to see the positive side, too.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:29 PM

https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_health1.pdf

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:25 PM

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18524881.400-psychedelic-medicine-mind-bending-health-giving.html, http://www.maps.org/research/psilo/azproto.html, http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/single_dose_of_hallucinogen_may_create_lasting_personality_change, http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6693, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/science/12psychedelics.html?_r=0, http://article.psychiatrist.com/dao_1-login.asp?ID=10002809&RSID=21828409029995, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6210694.stm, http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/aug/12/medicalresearch.drugs,

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:25 PM

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18524881.400-psychedelic-medicine-mind-bending-health-giving.html, http://www.maps.org/research/psilo/azproto.html, http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/single_dose_of_hallucinogen_may_create_lasting_personality_change, http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6693, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/science/12psychedelics.html?_r=0, http://article.psychiatrist.com/dao_1-login.asp?ID=10002809&RSID=21828409029995, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6210694.stm, http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/aug/12/medicalresearch.drugs,

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 18, 2012
at 06:01 PM

Raydawg, if you're going to present an argument, at least don't be condescending.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 04:10 PM

I am trying to bite my tongue now... but I am sorry I have to say this - as a former teacher - if mushrooms and LSD actually were the main reason behind your good grains in English and Danish during high school... what does it tell you? To me it is a huge red flag because students who get good grades (in my practice at least) never had to use those substances. Again, I will never agree/approve the use of LSD and mushrooms and I really really hope you quit and find something that will enhance your life without resorting to those substances. I am not saying this in a mean way.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 04:04 PM

If I have to come up with arguments, I will have to post 500 pages of research, site all the sources in APA format, etc. I can... but I just don't care and do not want to spend any more time on it. This is my opinion, it is based on what I know from my education.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 04:02 PM

@ Alexander - I see no point arguing about something that is totally obvious in my book. Thank you for asking for clarification about drugs. When I say "drugs" in this context I mean "Recreational drugs are chemical substances that affect the central nervous system, such as opioids or hallucinogens.They may be used for perceived beneficial effects on perception, consciousness, personality, and behavior.Some drugs can cause addiction and/or habituation." (Wiki). But I would go even further than drugs - alcohol, tobacco, etc. etc. etc. Even glue/chemicals when used as recreational drugs.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 03:48 PM

My N=1 is that mushrooms and LSD actually were the main reasons behind my good grades in English and Danish during high school. It was hardly 'bad' for me. I'm sorry for misunderstanding your post with regard to 'addiction'. I think its a little quick of you to doubt my comprehension skills at that though. I just dont see you coming with any arguments here - only postulates. This detracts from your credibility somewhat. Also i maintain that you cannot generalize chemical compounds like you seem to do. You cannot say that 'drugs' are bad. It is, as i've said like claiming 'food' is bad.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on September 18, 2012
at 03:45 PM

" I feel so light and pure on shrooms" "this state of higher consciousness. I reach a week-long euphoria" -- uh huh, not getting high. Riiiiight. You're just trying to distance taking psychedelics from the high you feel - I'm not anti drugs, quite the opposite, but I am pro-honesty and pro-reality and the words you posted indicate you're going towards the wrong end of the pool. Thanks for playing.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 18, 2012
at 03:08 PM

I haven't actually read Terrence McKenna, but I've listened to some of his lectures. I've read and listened to Alan Watts, and listened to Alex Grey. I actually think that if one were to full-on trip on mushrooms twice a week, a tolerance would build up. As I said, I don't think we're meant to be intoxicated that often. I know someone who said he tripped on mushrooms once per month for a few years throughout college, and he's one of the happiest, sanest people I know. I'd say that's a good frequency for one's formative years. But hey, maybe twice a week is what he needs right now.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 03:05 PM

Thank you for "respecting my abstinence". I can tolerate what you do to yourself, but do not claim it is healthy and natural. It is not, and deep down you know it. If it would be healthy and natural, everybody would be doing it, even little babies.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 03:00 PM

I also did not mention anything about being addicted to mushrooms. What I said was "Using any substances, no matter how benign they seem to alter your psycological/physicological state is NOT HEALTHY." ANY SUBSTANCES, whether they are addictive or not. Claiming addiction really speaks volumes about your lack of reading comprehension (@Alexander). None of my friends died from drugs or food - only two classmates that I was not even friends with to begin with so I have no emotional baggage attached to that. I also had a neighbor who drowned yet I have nothing against swimming.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 02:54 PM

I actually know a lot about mushrooms since I "gather" them from the forest. And believe me, I know more than a dozen mushrooms that will end human life in less than a day - in some cases even stomach pumping won't help. I also observed wild animals eating specific mushrooms, however, it is always done with a purpose - when animals are sick. Then they eat specific mushrooms not to get high but to get better, just like cats and dogs eating specific types of plants to induce vomiting. This is NATURAL BEHAVIOR. Getting high on mushrooms for "mental clarity" is not.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 01:35 PM

The problem is the generalization of 'drugs'. Its like saying "My friends died by eating food" when what is meant is death from bad, toxic food like tons of sugary beverages, fast food, pizzas etc. Just like food isn't just 'food', drugs arent just 'drugs'. You should recognize this VB. Also - and i dont know if DAN W. wrote this - it is physiologically impossible to get addicted to mushrooms and other entheogens. It just doesn't happen. Claiming addiction really speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge on the subject.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 01:28 PM

I would like to counter the idea that taking entheogens are unnatural while meditation, chanting etc is more 'pure' and 'natural'. Shamanism is arguably the first occuring spirituality of mankind. Paleo-shamans did drugs tens of thousands of years before polytheistic hindus/pre-hindus tried to induce trance by meditation. The chant + drug combo is arguably the most natural an altered state of conciousness can get.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 01:25 PM

Yea, you really dont want to be 'that guy' in the neighbourhood who everyone knows is 'a bit ... you know' ;)

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 01:22 PM

This post cannot be upvoted enough. I take it you have read Terence McKenna, no? Personally, i'd never be able to do mushrooms twice a week. I dont even do them once a month even though i would like to. I would personally do them alittle less often than BoneBrothFast. But then im not him.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 18, 2012
at 01:12 PM

Shrooms don't get you high. You're incredibly ignorant and your lack of research in this area is blatantly obvious. Simply do a 5 minute google search and you'd realize you don't get high from shrooms. Please stop displaying your ignorance online for all to see, it's making me queasy.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on September 18, 2012
at 12:35 PM

@BBB "Shrooms don't make you delusional. " Maybe this comes down to YMMV. If you were to ask me (and maybe others) I wouldn't recommend making it a staple - mainly because they tend to suck me down intense thought paths (like daydreaming) which do all sorts of weird logic which ends up breaking reality for me. Then I guess there is also the "dose makes the poisen" aspect as well. There are community resources out there on the internet where I am sure you could get an idea of how people go on average with the sort of consumption you are proposing- I think that would be a good idea.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on September 18, 2012
at 12:24 PM

Mushrooms are free. I believe there is a toxic dose but you are correct it is quite high. I would be more worried about your psychological state as opposed to any poisoning concerns. Dan, loved the quote and final paragraph- my sentiments exactly- upvote.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on September 18, 2012
at 12:19 PM

Getting drawn into these petty arguments probably is an indication you have not reached a balanced relationship with your drugs/ lifestyle. You should be able to understand where VB is coming from having experienced the loss as a result of drugs and just let be a valid reminder that these things shouldn't be taken lightly.. Mushrooms have a lot of lessons to teach- but first and foremost the reality with the people we love in it is the most important reality. I love mushrooms but often trips were just a good reminder that I love every moment in real life more and the brain can be fragile.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on September 18, 2012
at 12:17 PM

Getting drawn into these petty arguments probably is an indication you have not reached a balanced relationship with your drugs/ lifestyle. You should be able to understand where VB is coming from having experienced the loss as a result of drugs and just let be a valid reminder that these things shouldn't be taken lightly.. Mushrooms have a lot of lessons to teach- but first and foremost the reality with the people we love in it is the most important reality. I love mushrooms but the last often trips were just a good reminder that I love every moment in real life more and the brain is fragile.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 18, 2012
at 11:13 AM

I have a rebuttal for every response of yours, (except the Native Russians one, point taken-I was typing in a hurry, heh.) but I'm actually not going to. Because we're obviously not going to convince one another. What I'd like to do is show that there are greater principles at stake: freedom. You are convinced that mushrooms are bad for you, BBF and I are sure that they promote long-term health and well being. You have no right to tell us not to eat these things as much as us not having the right to force you to take them. We respect your abstinence, so please at least tolerate our usage.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on September 18, 2012
at 10:21 AM

Oh please, you basically asked "How dare the diet that keeps me healthy, and away from neolithic diseases interfere with my attempt to get high." Seriously? What does "filthy" mean exactly? Are you borrowing from the vegan toolchest that meat is unclean or something ridiculous like that? I've no problem with folks trying to get high, drunk or experiment - I've had those days too, but your approach to it is so high and mighty it smells of dogma. Come down to earth dude.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 06:41 AM

@ Dan, and please do not use the term Native Russians - it is incorrect. Use "indigenous peoples of Siberia" instead since the term "Russian" does not indicate geographical location but ethnicity.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 06:06 AM

@ Bonebroth - think about it - why do those mushrooms make you happy? What are the mechanics of it? What areas in your brain do they activate for you to feel happy?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:59 AM

As for another site, cracked. com - I can rebuff ANY ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES, but I think it is just a waste of my time. Where those elephants would get some booze if they were in nature? And how often? Think about it.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:56 AM

Let me assure you - jaguars do not get high on those leaves. If you can see - he rubbed his neck around the leaves more than anything, so it it was done in a very controlled manner. As for the tribes again - it is done ritualistically, at a certain day/part of the day and there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE IT IS HEALTHY. Humans do a lot of things that are not healthy, but I hope you already knew that.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:50 AM

In my culture we have a saying: all mushrooms are edible, but some of them you can eat only once. All those native tribes know what herbs to eat for stomach ache and what herbs make you high. There is a difference.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:49 AM

Herbs and drugs are two different things. Herbs are designed to treat some kind of ailment for a short period of time. You do not need to take herbs all your life. Drugs make you feel as if you are getting better, but they are not beneficial to your health.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:47 AM

No, IT IS NOT GOOD FOR THEM. They do it because they get addicted to it and think that it is good for them. In reality, some of those tribes practiced human sacrifice, infanticide and cannibalism. Do you really think it is good for them?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:43 AM

Dear Dan, some mammals (not all of them) - some of them do it BUT in nature it happens ONCE A YEAR (trying to emphasize) for a very brief time. I do not know ANY MAMMAL that would do it twice a week, all year around - it is not natural. As for the tribes - let's look at chimps and bonobos (because they resemble the same behavior model as our early human ancestors) - how often do they get high?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 17, 2012
at 10:39 PM

It makes sense that different chemicals would suppress different cravings. I suspect part of the euphoria aspect of it also works on the reward center of your brain in a way that ephedra doesn't (stimulant lack of appetite does feel different than pyschedelic lack of appetite to me), so you've blocked any impulse for foods that would be chemically rewarding but nutritionally dubious, and the need or desire is no longer there.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 09:55 PM

I doubt it, I've taken Ephedra supplements and drank Ephedra tea and it suppresses your appetite way more than psilocybin, yet it doesn't curb cravings much. My appetite is only suppressed for a few hours afterwards, but either way I still feel hunger. I just don't get any cravings and my judgment is not impaired by the allure of crap food. I'm sure the mild appetite suppressant effects do play some role, just not a big one.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 09:03 PM

Oh, and for humans, I'm just going to rattle off thousand-year old cultures and their healing rituals involving psychoactive substances. The Bwiti people and Iboga. The Mazatecs and Salvia Divinorum. The Native American Church and peyote. The Mayans and psilocybe mushrooms. Native Amazonians and Ayahuasca. Amazonians and the Kambo frog. Native Russians and Amanita Muscaria. Hindus and Cannabis. Do I really have to continue here? Try going to these tribes and telling them that they're poisoning themselves. They have done this for millenia because it's GOOD FOR THEM (pardon my all-caps.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 08:57 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqGDv0KCJl8 ; http://www.cracked.com/article_17032_7-species-that-get-high-more-than-we-do.html

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 08:54 PM

I didn't say that I know of animals that do it twice a week. But I'll get you info and sources shortly. Also, please tone down the all caps.

Medium avatar

(19469)

on September 17, 2012
at 08:15 PM

Nice balanced comment Karen :)

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on September 17, 2012
at 08:01 PM

I think you might be on to something about cravings. Psilocybin acts on seratonin receptors in the brain, and a lot of seratonin is produced in the gut. Hmm...

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 05:49 PM

@ Dan W. YES LIST ALL OF THE EXAMPLES WITH SOURCES PLEASE. I want to know which mammals do it twice (or more per week) all year around. Would be very interested to know.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 05:40 PM

@ Becca - those fermented fruits are only available ONCE PER YEAR.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 04:24 PM

I mean, there are certainly people out there who have bad mushroom experiences, either due to the wrong mindset or taking it in the wrong setting. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, obviously. Sometimes they can "kick your ass" and be quite sobering, but usually with a valuable lesson attached to the experience. Unrelated, that's interesting that you say "UNfermented bread" upsets your stomach. So does that mean you can eat sourdough rye bread and not experience ill effects?

D7f404b29047b12e2c2f528934b7b80b

(133)

on September 17, 2012
at 04:22 PM

VB never read about animals (mammals) consuming fermented fruit and getting drunk off of it! How do you think we came up with fermenting stuff in the first place? Because it happens natuarally!!

Ba1c998b18470309687f07606767668a

(161)

on September 17, 2012
at 04:01 PM

It's definitely the right thing to do to seek advice and conversation if you're not sure about something, but let me repeat back to you the question you're asking in your words as I understand them: 'I am doing something completely natural a couple of times a week to improve my mental/physical state. It only has positive effects. Is this Ok?'. Can you see that there's something missing from your question? What is it you're not sure about if there's no down side?

Ba1c998b18470309687f07606767668a

(161)

on September 17, 2012
at 03:57 PM

Yeah, I wasn't sure about my usage of the word 'drugs'. I guess I was meaning to refer to any psychoactive substance, natural or not.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 03:56 PM

Raydawg, you're such a sheep of modern society and the government institutions that it almost makes me sad. Almost.

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on September 17, 2012
at 03:22 PM

This is actually one case where the "plants don't want to be eaten" canard obviously applies.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:57 PM

The difference being that a snake can kill you. I don't think it's possible to kill yourself with psilocybin, even if you wanted to. That would be an expensive way of killing yourself.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:56 PM

Can you show me any evidence of GI damage or psychological issues caused by psychoactive mushrooms? I'm post-GAPS and so I've always been very receptive and alert to how different foods affect my digestion and mood. Psychoactive mushrooms give me no GI upset, whereas unfermented bread does. Too much sugar makes me depressed, and a few mushrooms make me even happier than normal. I've yet to see any negative effects from my mushroom consumption. Or anyone's mushroom consumption. Btw, Psychoactive does NOT mean Toxic. They're two different words. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they don't.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:52 PM

Well, considering most of the benefits are internal, not external, I don't think my peers notice any difference one way or the other. I'm always cheerful and smiling and psilocybin just makes me smile a bit more. I would counter that there is no change in perception when you're not actively tripping, but there must be some change considering I have 100% control over my diet for a week or two afterwards. I have enough experience with both entheogens and recreational substances to gauge whether I'm in "reality mode" or not. Shrooms don't make you delusional. I wholeheartedly agree, Dave S.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:51 PM

Saying "NOT NATURAL TO MAMMALS" makes you sound smart, but by saying "mammals" you have transgressed into more error. There are countless examples of non-human mammals consuming psychoactive plants to get high. I can think of at least 5 off the top of my head right now. Shall I list them or shall I let you discover them on your own?

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:50 PM

Saying "NOT NATURAL TO MAMMALS" makes you sound smart, but by saying "mammals" you have transgressed into more error. There are countless examples of non-human mammals consuming psychoactive plants to get high. I can think of at least 5 right now. Shall I list them or shall I let you discover them on your own?

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:49 PM

Saying "NOT NATURAL TO MAMMALS" makes you sound smart, but by saying "mammals" you have transgressed into more error. There are countless examples of mammals consuming psychoactive plants to get high. I can think of at least 5 right now.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:45 PM

I also can't believe you would lump "inhaling toxic chemicals" and "using mushrooms" together. There are toxic psychoactive substances, and then there are non-toxic, even healthful ones, which make up the majority of the natural psychoactive plants/fungi. If you're going to say something is "toxic," at least back it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Toxicity_and_harm_potential

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:41 PM

"Smoking, including smoking dope, drinking alcohol, chewing tobacco or khat, inhaling toxic substances, using mushrooms, etc. IS NOT NATURAL TO MAMMALS." -This couldn't be more wrong. All cultures (yes, all) alter their mindstate in some way for benefit. Most of the time, it's through the ingestion of substances. Why is imbibing in the herbs mother nature gives us "not natural?" Are we supposed to chastely avoid all these wonderful herbs that give us different perspectives, tonify certain systems of the body, get us through the day, enhance dreaming, etc.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:39 PM

"Using any substances, no matter how benign they seem to alter your psycological/physicological state is NOT HEALTHY." How bout food? Herbs? Supplements? I get the sense that you're not drawing from any data here.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:39 PM

Things start to get a bit weird (as a general rule, rather than as an alteration) after a while, I'll say that much. You may want to check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder - it gets fairly frustrating when you haven't used in a couple of years and you still see shadows morphing into things, still have strange little triggers that evoke very deep fight or flight responses and anxiety attacks. Be careful with your mind; it's more resilient than you would expect, but that doesn't mean it is unbreakable.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:37 PM

Maybe we should all take some mushrooms and then discuss.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:27 PM

I'm sure that paleolithic humans were often bitten by venomous snakes, so that too would be paleo, but whether that's ideal or not is another question. Granted I'm going a bit on hyperbole here, but perhaps such things aren't a great idea.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:24 PM

Bwahahahahahaha! "I feel so light and pure on shrooms, that I want nothing "filthy" to pollute my body." Nice rationalization there. Right up with veganism. Thanks for trolling! If you're actually serious, you've got far more issues than any of us here can help you with. Sorry.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:13 PM

^^^Should be "question" (singular) and "might NOT be reality." Apparently I have serious typing issues this morning.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:52 PM

Yes, it's definitely a bit of a conundrum. On one hand, I can see how someone could make the argument that I'm relying on "X" or a drug (which psilocybin is not) to feel better. But the issue with this is, I notice NO negative effects from this regular psilocybin consumption and this is coming from someone who eats a mostly FODMAPs type diet. I feel like Wonderwoman on and off it (in the following days.) I'm having a hard time rationalizing exactly why I would want to stop this once-a-week ritual. What would be the benefits in stopping? I can't come up with any.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:46 PM

My questions, BoneBroth, is do those *around* you notice the same positive benefits? Your perceptions in an altered state might be reality.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:41 PM

That being said, I did initially share the same concern - I was worried that I was relying on a drug. But that was quickly squashed when I came to my senses. If anything, psilocybin is a natural supplement, the same way that Ginkgo Biloba or Turmeric or Ginger is. Mushrooms ARE natural. They grow from the ground and were probably here before humans were, thus they are 100% natural. My only major concern is whether relying on ANYTHING, even if it's done once a week, to achieve a Human 2.0 state is the best course of action. Is it fine if I ONLY notice positive benefits (which I do.)?

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:37 PM

Mushrooms aren't a drug. They are a food. Humans make drugs, mother nature does not. The word drug itself is a human-made invention and along with that word comes an abstract negative connotation, which we have also created. Yes, I have explored meditation immensely to the point where I'm not able to receive "visions" in the meditative trance. At this point, my meditation is about as spiritually enlightening and intense as its going to get, but shrooms and meditation are apples and oranges. There is NO similarity between taking drugs recreationally and taking psilocybin regularly.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:34 PM

If we were discussing LSD or MDMA, I would be inclined to agree with you. However, the thing is there is NO down-time or recovery for me with it. In fact, the "recovery period" is what I love best about psilocybin mushrooms, because I feel better than in my "normal" state. My flexibility is improved, my joints are less rigid, my head is clearer, my performance is improved, etc. There is just no negative effect that I have noticed thus far, only positive ones. The biggest "issue" I had with the shrooms is whether or not they are FODMAPs approved.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:32 PM

Ketosis puts me in a similar state, but similar is not exact. I'm not too sure that if I walked into a room full of all of my "old favorites" (i.e. SAD foods that I used to be addicted to) while not in my "Human 2.0" state that I could resist it fully. And psilocybin isn't a dissociative, so I have a genuinely hard time understanding how someone might have difficulty translating their psychedelic experience into "real life." And my neighbor's purple dog told me that the trip only lasts for about 4-6 hours. 4-6 hours out of 7 days is nothing.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 12:59 PM

Yeah, you are brave to make this post on Paleohacks. But I'm glad you did. See my "answer" below.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 17, 2012
at 06:47 AM

I am afraid you have picked the wrong website to discuss magic mushrooms. Still, as powerful as psychedelics can be, dont you want to tap into this state without drugs via some trance method like chanting, drumming, meditation, yoga or tai chi? Its entirely possible to get persistant feelings of this nature without drugs..

Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

12 Answers

13
194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:21 PM

There is a lot of evidence that prehistoric humans (and even more recent than that) ate psychedelic mushrooms and other psychedelics ritually and for healing purposes. So are psilocybe mushrooms paleo? Definitely.

I as well have lately been consuming psilocybe mushrooms twice a week, but at low doses. I still have to go about my day, driving and whatnot, so I nibble on a teeeeeeny piece and it affects my day in a very wholesome, positive way. It helps me align with what is best for me, in diet and in most other areas of my life. I also trip in the deep end every few months or so.

It seems that this post is more of a "coming out" of your "psilocybin-induced zeal" and an explanation of it rather than a question. However, there are questions in the title, so I'll answer them.

"Is it unhealthy to use psilocybin mushrooms regularly to initiate 100% control over my diet?"

There are some problems with this question. By nature, consuming psilocybe mushrooms, in my experience, is one of the healthiest things you can do. However, you may find that you have to do less of them over time as you get more used to your healthy habits. When paying attention to what foods your body needs or doesn't need, include psilocybe mushrooms in your consideration.

I also think "100% control" isn't what we're looking for. I see it as more of a natural alignment that is connected to a sense of great ease, rather than some part of yourself "controlling" your eating activities.

"Do you have control of your taste buds?"

Again, you are not the controller of your body as a chariot controls a horse. You ARE your body. Any separation you might feel is illusory, as the mushrooms probably already told you. ;) Awareness, not control.

Another thing: Though mushrooms are healthful and will often align your body to what it truly wants, humans are meant to be sober most of the time. Think of the psychedelic experience as a cleanse or a raw vegan diet. They are extremely beneficial for the body, for a time. There is indeed a time for them. Go forth, trip and learn a lot, but as the psychedelic gurus say, "when you get the message, hang up the phone." That said, you can easily forget the message and you may want to dial in again later. :D

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:57 PM

The difference being that a snake can kill you. I don't think it's possible to kill yourself with psilocybin, even if you wanted to. That would be an expensive way of killing yourself.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 01:22 PM

This post cannot be upvoted enough. I take it you have read Terence McKenna, no? Personally, i'd never be able to do mushrooms twice a week. I dont even do them once a month even though i would like to. I would personally do them alittle less often than BoneBrothFast. But then im not him.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:52 PM

Yes, it's definitely a bit of a conundrum. On one hand, I can see how someone could make the argument that I'm relying on "X" or a drug (which psilocybin is not) to feel better. But the issue with this is, I notice NO negative effects from this regular psilocybin consumption and this is coming from someone who eats a mostly FODMAPs type diet. I feel like Wonderwoman on and off it (in the following days.) I'm having a hard time rationalizing exactly why I would want to stop this once-a-week ritual. What would be the benefits in stopping? I can't come up with any.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on September 18, 2012
at 12:24 PM

Mushrooms are free. I believe there is a toxic dose but you are correct it is quite high. I would be more worried about your psychological state as opposed to any poisoning concerns. Dan, loved the quote and final paragraph- my sentiments exactly- upvote.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:27 PM

I'm sure that paleolithic humans were often bitten by venomous snakes, so that too would be paleo, but whether that's ideal or not is another question. Granted I'm going a bit on hyperbole here, but perhaps such things aren't a great idea.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 18, 2012
at 03:08 PM

I haven't actually read Terrence McKenna, but I've listened to some of his lectures. I've read and listened to Alan Watts, and listened to Alex Grey. I actually think that if one were to full-on trip on mushrooms twice a week, a tolerance would build up. As I said, I don't think we're meant to be intoxicated that often. I know someone who said he tripped on mushrooms once per month for a few years throughout college, and he's one of the happiest, sanest people I know. I'd say that's a good frequency for one's formative years. But hey, maybe twice a week is what he needs right now.

9
A626cdde39acd957466796c57c97b17f

on September 17, 2012
at 07:05 AM

Um, I just want to hang out with you. :)

2006ccb2b60f9cc5ba5e8eff8a7abc46

(1533)

on June 17, 2013
at 01:45 AM

I came here to same this about two years too late :/

7
F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on September 17, 2012
at 07:49 PM

Having done a little research into psychedelics, I'm not surprised that you feel this way. They have a pretty good track record of therapeutic rehabbing for things like alcoholism and other addictions, which I could totally see relating to food (whether you had an actual food addiction or not). I'm just saying they might occupy some of the same brain space.

And even though I'm no enemy of psilocybin, I just can't get on board with the frequency here. But you have to do what's right for you. I would caution you to be hypervigilant for when that balance tips in the wrong direction. The main issue I see with it is that it is disruptive to the normal flow of life (as most of us know it). If you're off the grid, are unemployed, and childless, then maybe? But within the parameters of American life, I just don't see this fitting in on a weekly+ basis. But good luck to ya!

Medium avatar

(19469)

on September 17, 2012
at 08:15 PM

Nice balanced comment Karen :)

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 01:25 PM

Yea, you really dont want to be 'that guy' in the neighbourhood who everyone knows is 'a bit ... you know' ;)

6
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 17, 2012
at 07:21 PM

I'm only chiming in here because no one else has said this, psilocybin is a potent appetite suppressant, so your results are not surprising. It is also a well known euphoric, so your sense of well being is also to be expected. Putting those two feelings together feel awesome, especially if you've had a dicey relationship with food in the past.

That said, like with anything potent and medicinal, you will gradually develop a resistance and require larger doses for the same feeling, and as you slowly replace your natural brain chemistry with an increased dose of external replacements, should you find yourself without access to shrooms at some point, it is perfectly normal to have a distinct sense that all is not right with the world (a feel of anti-euphoria) until your endogenous chemistry returns to normal. Kind of like quitting coffee and having that ass dragging feeling for 4-6 weeks.

The good really good news here is that you have found a tool to get you over that hump until the cravings for what you ought not eat have ceased on their own. If it has been 4-8 weeks, I bet you have started to shift your gut microbes enough, that even without the shrooms you will no longer have those cravings.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 09:55 PM

I doubt it, I've taken Ephedra supplements and drank Ephedra tea and it suppresses your appetite way more than psilocybin, yet it doesn't curb cravings much. My appetite is only suppressed for a few hours afterwards, but either way I still feel hunger. I just don't get any cravings and my judgment is not impaired by the allure of crap food. I'm sure the mild appetite suppressant effects do play some role, just not a big one.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on September 17, 2012
at 08:01 PM

I think you might be on to something about cravings. Psilocybin acts on seratonin receptors in the brain, and a lot of seratonin is produced in the gut. Hmm...

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 17, 2012
at 10:39 PM

It makes sense that different chemicals would suppress different cravings. I suspect part of the euphoria aspect of it also works on the reward center of your brain in a way that ephedra doesn't (stimulant lack of appetite does feel different than pyschedelic lack of appetite to me), so you've blocked any impulse for foods that would be chemically rewarding but nutritionally dubious, and the need or desire is no longer there.

6
Ba1c998b18470309687f07606767668a

(161)

on September 17, 2012
at 10:58 AM

My gut feeling is that you wouldn't be asking this question and have phrased it like you did unless you instinctively knew that this level of drugs is unhealthy in some way and were seeking strengthening arguments against this level of use of a drug. I'd suggest getting in touch with that gut feeling that is telling you something isn't quite right and seeing where it goes.

I'm certainly not against drug use as a powerful tool for exploration of your own psyche, but day to day use seems unhealthy.

Have you explored ways to reach the same mental state through meditation? Assuming that were possible, would you feel more natural and at peace reaching that state through using a substance external to your body, or by reaching it naturally using only your own mind?

Also interested how you're able to separate the use of e.g. 'cake' from the use of 'mushrooms'. They seem similar to me - both in the category of allowing a non-natural part of your diet to change your behavioural cycles.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:52 PM

Well, considering most of the benefits are internal, not external, I don't think my peers notice any difference one way or the other. I'm always cheerful and smiling and psilocybin just makes me smile a bit more. I would counter that there is no change in perception when you're not actively tripping, but there must be some change considering I have 100% control over my diet for a week or two afterwards. I have enough experience with both entheogens and recreational substances to gauge whether I'm in "reality mode" or not. Shrooms don't make you delusional. I wholeheartedly agree, Dave S.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:13 PM

^^^Should be "question" (singular) and "might NOT be reality." Apparently I have serious typing issues this morning.

Ba1c998b18470309687f07606767668a

(161)

on September 17, 2012
at 03:57 PM

Yeah, I wasn't sure about my usage of the word 'drugs'. I guess I was meaning to refer to any psychoactive substance, natural or not.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:37 PM

Mushrooms aren't a drug. They are a food. Humans make drugs, mother nature does not. The word drug itself is a human-made invention and along with that word comes an abstract negative connotation, which we have also created. Yes, I have explored meditation immensely to the point where I'm not able to receive "visions" in the meditative trance. At this point, my meditation is about as spiritually enlightening and intense as its going to get, but shrooms and meditation are apples and oranges. There is NO similarity between taking drugs recreationally and taking psilocybin regularly.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:46 PM

My questions, BoneBroth, is do those *around* you notice the same positive benefits? Your perceptions in an altered state might be reality.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:37 PM

Maybe we should all take some mushrooms and then discuss.

Ba1c998b18470309687f07606767668a

(161)

on September 17, 2012
at 04:01 PM

It's definitely the right thing to do to seek advice and conversation if you're not sure about something, but let me repeat back to you the question you're asking in your words as I understand them: 'I am doing something completely natural a couple of times a week to improve my mental/physical state. It only has positive effects. Is this Ok?'. Can you see that there's something missing from your question? What is it you're not sure about if there's no down side?

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:41 PM

That being said, I did initially share the same concern - I was worried that I was relying on a drug. But that was quickly squashed when I came to my senses. If anything, psilocybin is a natural supplement, the same way that Ginkgo Biloba or Turmeric or Ginger is. Mushrooms ARE natural. They grow from the ground and were probably here before humans were, thus they are 100% natural. My only major concern is whether relying on ANYTHING, even if it's done once a week, to achieve a Human 2.0 state is the best course of action. Is it fine if I ONLY notice positive benefits (which I do.)?

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on September 18, 2012
at 12:35 PM

@BBB "Shrooms don't make you delusional. " Maybe this comes down to YMMV. If you were to ask me (and maybe others) I wouldn't recommend making it a staple - mainly because they tend to suck me down intense thought paths (like daydreaming) which do all sorts of weird logic which ends up breaking reality for me. Then I guess there is also the "dose makes the poisen" aspect as well. There are community resources out there on the internet where I am sure you could get an idea of how people go on average with the sort of consumption you are proposing- I think that would be a good idea.

3
61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on September 17, 2012
at 10:29 AM

I am certainly not anti-drug myself, let's just start with that. Shrooms are something I find myself in the mood to do once or twice a year, if that. I just can't imagine once or twice a week! I honestly don't think this would be a good idea. That stuff can really, for lack of a more scientific term, zap your brain. I don't think that taking it once or twice a week would give you full recovery time between trips. Shrooms have their place - but I don't think the use you've got in mind is it.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:34 PM

If we were discussing LSD or MDMA, I would be inclined to agree with you. However, the thing is there is NO down-time or recovery for me with it. In fact, the "recovery period" is what I love best about psilocybin mushrooms, because I feel better than in my "normal" state. My flexibility is improved, my joints are less rigid, my head is clearer, my performance is improved, etc. There is just no negative effect that I have noticed thus far, only positive ones. The biggest "issue" I had with the shrooms is whether or not they are FODMAPs approved.

2
Cc3ce03985eac5ebcbb95fc2329f13b0

on September 17, 2012
at 03:52 PM

I have nothing but positive things to say about Psychedelics. I think they are extremely beneficial. Shrooms are being reseaeched as a treatment for depression and anxiety. A fasted state is a very common side effect of their use.

We have always had drugs like this, in every culture. Psychedelics and fasting go hand in hand for this kind of mental adjustment. You enjoy it, keep at it.

2
10405c6f4c2e5bb251d25a37a0dc35a4

on September 17, 2012
at 07:34 AM

It is entirely possible to get that feeling without drugs, many have achieved it. Maybe you need to practice and learn more about the subject of enlightenment as that resembles (for me) something very similar to what you describe.

Personally I found cutting out carbohydrates completely stopped all desire for 'bad' foods.

Also carefully studying accurate diet books such as Primal Body PM, if you haven't already, is a great way to fully understand your diet.

It's not natural to be taking psychedelics so much and you may soon find yourself an outsider to reality.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 01:32 PM

Ketosis puts me in a similar state, but similar is not exact. I'm not too sure that if I walked into a room full of all of my "old favorites" (i.e. SAD foods that I used to be addicted to) while not in my "Human 2.0" state that I could resist it fully. And psilocybin isn't a dissociative, so I have a genuinely hard time understanding how someone might have difficulty translating their psychedelic experience into "real life." And my neighbor's purple dog told me that the trip only lasts for about 4-6 hours. 4-6 hours out of 7 days is nothing.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 01:28 PM

I would like to counter the idea that taking entheogens are unnatural while meditation, chanting etc is more 'pure' and 'natural'. Shamanism is arguably the first occuring spirituality of mankind. Paleo-shamans did drugs tens of thousands of years before polytheistic hindus/pre-hindus tried to induce trance by meditation. The chant + drug combo is arguably the most natural an altered state of conciousness can get.

1
Ed7403e397077dd1acdbf25c7f6e56ce

on December 02, 2012
at 11:22 PM

People who don't use drugs as tools will never understand people who do. Just spew their ignorant stereotypes as facts.

The mental and spiritual benefits of psychedelics can be truly profound. However, they can also be profoundly damaging. Know your drugs, and know yourself. Psilocybin overdose is terrifying! At the same time, it is extremely enlightening...

Nutritionally, psilocybin is a sound, 100% Paleo, food. I think the drying process can pick up some yucky passengers, but I could be wrong. There are some very interesting theories suggesting psilocybin has played a key role in human evolution... physically, socially, and mentally/spiritually.

If you ever get a shot at eating fresh, undried shrooms, don't pass it up! (Unless you're on your way to work, etc) When I was in A'dam they sold them in little plastic produce containers right out a cooler. Absolutely delicious!

Also, not Paleo at all, but you can eat the substrate 'root' system. Wheat germ, vermiculite & perlite fortified with God-head!

0
2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on December 02, 2012
at 11:27 PM

i dont see how shrooms can permantely fuck someone up. a bad trip, maybe. but nothing permanently damaging. and considering shrooms are not known for being addictive, it can't hurt to try it out every once in a while, as long as you know the mushroom isn't poisonous and you don't take too high a dose.

0
C23148e16a4dd05351d1902a69097d65

(748)

on December 02, 2012
at 10:03 PM

This is interesting... just wondering what your results have been now BoneBrothFast? Considering it's been a few months since this discussion. Have you still killed your addiction with food?

0
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:26 PM

I will be probably the only person here who will tell you: DO NOT DO IT, it is UNHEALTHY.

Using any substances, no matter how benign they seem to alter your psycological/physicological state is NOT HEALTHY.

Smoking, including smoking dope, drinking alcohol, chewing tobacco or khat, inhaling toxic substances, using mushrooms, etc. IS NOT (corrected) HEALTHY IN MAMMALS. It is found in nature, but it is very occasional and not habitual.

Yes, unfortunately we have developed a very shrewd brain that helped us first to adapt to our environment and later adapt that environment to our needs.

Our brain became so developed that we used it to gain knowledge about plants and animals, thus allowing to develop farming and agriculture. Our brains allowed us to learn how to make processed foods, and use toxic substances to activate the reward systems in our brains.

Are mushrooms Paleo? Sure they are, but so are many other things - cannibalism (very Paleo), infanticide, shamanism, totem poles etc. Not all Paleo things are healthy/helpful/appropriate. Some of them are quite disturbing.

Yes, I understand you are feeling better with mushrooms. Now WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS??? What effect do they have on your brain to help you feel elevated during your recovery period?

Do you want me to tell you a sure way to feel better in your normal state? Fall in love, start dating, have tons of sex every day, have twelve kids... you will forget what state you are at.

Just make sure to eat right to keep your gut flora healthy.

One more thing - I know it is not going go well with others but I will say it anyway.

Where were your parents when you started using those mushrooms? Why don't they say anything?

And by the way, it is okay to say that you use those mushrooms here on the internet where there is at least some degree of privacy. In real life, when you talk to a girl - don't say it. A normal girl with high level of self-esteem will never go for a junkie - they don't make good parents. I am not being negative - I am just telling you what I would say to my own son. Hope it does not sound offensive.

P.S. Two of my classmates died because of drugs. I know you don't think that mushrooms are drugs, but if you care about your body even a little tiny bit - stop using those mushrooms right now.


Edited: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18257429

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18378018

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18926381

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16276262

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16225077

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 08:57 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqGDv0KCJl8 ; http://www.cracked.com/article_17032_7-species-that-get-high-more-than-we-do.html

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 05:40 PM

@ Becca - those fermented fruits are only available ONCE PER YEAR.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:39 PM

"Using any substances, no matter how benign they seem to alter your psycological/physicological state is NOT HEALTHY." How bout food? Herbs? Supplements? I get the sense that you're not drawing from any data here.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:49 PM

Saying "NOT NATURAL TO MAMMALS" makes you sound smart, but by saying "mammals" you have transgressed into more error. There are countless examples of mammals consuming psychoactive plants to get high. I can think of at least 5 right now.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:50 PM

Saying "NOT NATURAL TO MAMMALS" makes you sound smart, but by saying "mammals" you have transgressed into more error. There are countless examples of non-human mammals consuming psychoactive plants to get high. I can think of at least 5 right now. Shall I list them or shall I let you discover them on your own?

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 03:48 PM

My N=1 is that mushrooms and LSD actually were the main reasons behind my good grades in English and Danish during high school. It was hardly 'bad' for me. I'm sorry for misunderstanding your post with regard to 'addiction'. I think its a little quick of you to doubt my comprehension skills at that though. I just dont see you coming with any arguments here - only postulates. This detracts from your credibility somewhat. Also i maintain that you cannot generalize chemical compounds like you seem to do. You cannot say that 'drugs' are bad. It is, as i've said like claiming 'food' is bad.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 17, 2012
at 05:49 PM

@ Dan W. YES LIST ALL OF THE EXAMPLES WITH SOURCES PLEASE. I want to know which mammals do it twice (or more per week) all year around. Would be very interested to know.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:49 AM

Herbs and drugs are two different things. Herbs are designed to treat some kind of ailment for a short period of time. You do not need to take herbs all your life. Drugs make you feel as if you are getting better, but they are not beneficial to your health.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 18, 2012
at 11:13 AM

I have a rebuttal for every response of yours, (except the Native Russians one, point taken-I was typing in a hurry, heh.) but I'm actually not going to. Because we're obviously not going to convince one another. What I'd like to do is show that there are greater principles at stake: freedom. You are convinced that mushrooms are bad for you, BBF and I are sure that they promote long-term health and well being. You have no right to tell us not to eat these things as much as us not having the right to force you to take them. We respect your abstinence, so please at least tolerate our usage.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:59 AM

As for another site, cracked. com - I can rebuff ANY ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES, but I think it is just a waste of my time. Where those elephants would get some booze if they were in nature? And how often? Think about it.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:56 AM

Let me assure you - jaguars do not get high on those leaves. If you can see - he rubbed his neck around the leaves more than anything, so it it was done in a very controlled manner. As for the tribes again - it is done ritualistically, at a certain day/part of the day and there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE IT IS HEALTHY. Humans do a lot of things that are not healthy, but I hope you already knew that.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:45 PM

I also can't believe you would lump "inhaling toxic chemicals" and "using mushrooms" together. There are toxic psychoactive substances, and then there are non-toxic, even healthful ones, which make up the majority of the natural psychoactive plants/fungi. If you're going to say something is "toxic," at least back it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Toxicity_and_harm_potential

D7f404b29047b12e2c2f528934b7b80b

(133)

on September 17, 2012
at 04:22 PM

VB never read about animals (mammals) consuming fermented fruit and getting drunk off of it! How do you think we came up with fermenting stuff in the first place? Because it happens natuarally!!

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:41 PM

"Smoking, including smoking dope, drinking alcohol, chewing tobacco or khat, inhaling toxic substances, using mushrooms, etc. IS NOT NATURAL TO MAMMALS." -This couldn't be more wrong. All cultures (yes, all) alter their mindstate in some way for benefit. Most of the time, it's through the ingestion of substances. Why is imbibing in the herbs mother nature gives us "not natural?" Are we supposed to chastely avoid all these wonderful herbs that give us different perspectives, tonify certain systems of the body, get us through the day, enhance dreaming, etc.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 09:03 PM

Oh, and for humans, I'm just going to rattle off thousand-year old cultures and their healing rituals involving psychoactive substances. The Bwiti people and Iboga. The Mazatecs and Salvia Divinorum. The Native American Church and peyote. The Mayans and psilocybe mushrooms. Native Amazonians and Ayahuasca. Amazonians and the Kambo frog. Native Russians and Amanita Muscaria. Hindus and Cannabis. Do I really have to continue here? Try going to these tribes and telling them that they're poisoning themselves. They have done this for millenia because it's GOOD FOR THEM (pardon my all-caps.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 06:06 AM

@ Bonebroth - think about it - why do those mushrooms make you happy? What are the mechanics of it? What areas in your brain do they activate for you to feel happy?

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on September 18, 2012
at 12:17 PM

Getting drawn into these petty arguments probably is an indication you have not reached a balanced relationship with your drugs/ lifestyle. You should be able to understand where VB is coming from having experienced the loss as a result of drugs and just let be a valid reminder that these things shouldn't be taken lightly.. Mushrooms have a lot of lessons to teach- but first and foremost the reality with the people we love in it is the most important reality. I love mushrooms but the last often trips were just a good reminder that I love every moment in real life more and the brain is fragile.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 04:04 PM

If I have to come up with arguments, I will have to post 500 pages of research, site all the sources in APA format, etc. I can... but I just don't care and do not want to spend any more time on it. This is my opinion, it is based on what I know from my education.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:56 PM

Can you show me any evidence of GI damage or psychological issues caused by psychoactive mushrooms? I'm post-GAPS and so I've always been very receptive and alert to how different foods affect my digestion and mood. Psychoactive mushrooms give me no GI upset, whereas unfermented bread does. Too much sugar makes me depressed, and a few mushrooms make me even happier than normal. I've yet to see any negative effects from my mushroom consumption. Or anyone's mushroom consumption. Btw, Psychoactive does NOT mean Toxic. They're two different words. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they don't.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 06:41 AM

@ Dan, and please do not use the term Native Russians - it is incorrect. Use "indigenous peoples of Siberia" instead since the term "Russian" does not indicate geographical location but ethnicity.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 04:24 PM

I mean, there are certainly people out there who have bad mushroom experiences, either due to the wrong mindset or taking it in the wrong setting. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, obviously. Sometimes they can "kick your ass" and be quite sobering, but usually with a valuable lesson attached to the experience. Unrelated, that's interesting that you say "UNfermented bread" upsets your stomach. So does that mean you can eat sourdough rye bread and not experience ill effects?

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:37 PM

VB, I'm truly sorry that two of your classmates died from drug use, whatever drug that may have been. Addictive drugs are for no one, and psychedelic drugs are certainly not for everyone. They are not for the faint of heart or mind. The intensity of the experience can drive people with pre-existing mental conditions/weaknesses to get themselves into dangerous situations. That doesn't mean you can say that the fungus itself is universally bad. Yes, there is a dark side of psychedelics. I am not denying that. I just want you to see the positive side, too.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on September 18, 2012
at 01:35 PM

The problem is the generalization of 'drugs'. Its like saying "My friends died by eating food" when what is meant is death from bad, toxic food like tons of sugary beverages, fast food, pizzas etc. Just like food isn't just 'food', drugs arent just 'drugs'. You should recognize this VB. Also - and i dont know if DAN W. wrote this - it is physiologically impossible to get addicted to mushrooms and other entheogens. It just doesn't happen. Claiming addiction really speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge on the subject.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 08:54 PM

I didn't say that I know of animals that do it twice a week. But I'll get you info and sources shortly. Also, please tone down the all caps.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:43 AM

Dear Dan, some mammals (not all of them) - some of them do it BUT in nature it happens ONCE A YEAR (trying to emphasize) for a very brief time. I do not know ANY MAMMAL that would do it twice a week, all year around - it is not natural. As for the tribes - let's look at chimps and bonobos (because they resemble the same behavior model as our early human ancestors) - how often do they get high?

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 17, 2012
at 02:51 PM

Saying "NOT NATURAL TO MAMMALS" makes you sound smart, but by saying "mammals" you have transgressed into more error. There are countless examples of non-human mammals consuming psychoactive plants to get high. I can think of at least 5 off the top of my head right now. Shall I list them or shall I let you discover them on your own?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 03:05 PM

Thank you for "respecting my abstinence". I can tolerate what you do to yourself, but do not claim it is healthy and natural. It is not, and deep down you know it. If it would be healthy and natural, everybody would be doing it, even little babies.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:47 AM

No, IT IS NOT GOOD FOR THEM. They do it because they get addicted to it and think that it is good for them. In reality, some of those tribes practiced human sacrifice, infanticide and cannibalism. Do you really think it is good for them?

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:29 PM

https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_health1.pdf

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 05:50 AM

In my culture we have a saying: all mushrooms are edible, but some of them you can eat only once. All those native tribes know what herbs to eat for stomach ache and what herbs make you high. There is a difference.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 04:10 PM

I am trying to bite my tongue now... but I am sorry I have to say this - as a former teacher - if mushrooms and LSD actually were the main reason behind your good grains in English and Danish during high school... what does it tell you? To me it is a huge red flag because students who get good grades (in my practice at least) never had to use those substances. Again, I will never agree/approve the use of LSD and mushrooms and I really really hope you quit and find something that will enhance your life without resorting to those substances. I am not saying this in a mean way.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 04:02 PM

@ Alexander - I see no point arguing about something that is totally obvious in my book. Thank you for asking for clarification about drugs. When I say "drugs" in this context I mean "Recreational drugs are chemical substances that affect the central nervous system, such as opioids or hallucinogens.They may be used for perceived beneficial effects on perception, consciousness, personality, and behavior.Some drugs can cause addiction and/or habituation." (Wiki). But I would go even further than drugs - alcohol, tobacco, etc. etc. etc. Even glue/chemicals when used as recreational drugs.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:52 PM

@ Dan - I have checked out your links - not impressed. I have at least 5,000 things to say about each article, but it is not worth my time. We could argue back and forward and waste each other's time - it is not going to help either one of us. There is only one thing I want to say to you - I hope you find something that will bring joy and happiness to you ASIDE from the need to resort to using recreational drugs. And ANY sickness can be treated with things that are much better and safer than magic mushrooms.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 03:00 PM

I also did not mention anything about being addicted to mushrooms. What I said was "Using any substances, no matter how benign they seem to alter your psycological/physicological state is NOT HEALTHY." ANY SUBSTANCES, whether they are addictive or not. Claiming addiction really speaks volumes about your lack of reading comprehension (@Alexander). None of my friends died from drugs or food - only two classmates that I was not even friends with to begin with so I have no emotional baggage attached to that. I also had a neighbor who drowned yet I have nothing against swimming.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on September 18, 2012
at 12:19 PM

Getting drawn into these petty arguments probably is an indication you have not reached a balanced relationship with your drugs/ lifestyle. You should be able to understand where VB is coming from having experienced the loss as a result of drugs and just let be a valid reminder that these things shouldn't be taken lightly.. Mushrooms have a lot of lessons to teach- but first and foremost the reality with the people we love in it is the most important reality. I love mushrooms but often trips were just a good reminder that I love every moment in real life more and the brain can be fragile.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 18, 2012
at 02:54 PM

I actually know a lot about mushrooms since I "gather" them from the forest. And believe me, I know more than a dozen mushrooms that will end human life in less than a day - in some cases even stomach pumping won't help. I also observed wild animals eating specific mushrooms, however, it is always done with a purpose - when animals are sick. Then they eat specific mushrooms not to get high but to get better, just like cats and dogs eating specific types of plants to induce vomiting. This is NATURAL BEHAVIOR. Getting high on mushrooms for "mental clarity" is not.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:40 PM

Like a tool, it is powerfully dangerous when handled without care ("Hey dudes, let's get f***** up!"), and powerfully productive when handled with positive intention ("I'm going to set aside this day to learn something from this experience. I'll probably meditate.")

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 20, 2012
at 12:32 AM

And this is him talking about psychoactive substances: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtyhW9x3kdM . I hope you watch these videos in the order I posted them.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 19, 2012
at 02:02 PM

@ Dan - I have a very low tolerance for people who approve/promote/encourage drug use. If you want to do it - sure, it is your choice. But make sure to educate yourself on ALL POSSIBLE negative side-effects and DO NOT CLAIM THEY ARE SAFE. If you do not know about mushrooms - don't go to the forest. If you do not know the berries - don't eat them. If you do not know much about the safety of recreational drugs - don't tell people they are safe. You do not really know.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 19, 2012
at 03:18 PM

Sorry for misunderstanding. My high horse is tired and it does not want to argue anymore. I tend to get emotional over substance use and abuse and can be confrontational about those issues - I cannot do anything about it. I am glad you have decided to stop showing me the ways in which it is useful, productive and wholesome - not in my book. No hard feelings.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 01:25 PM

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18524881.400-psychedelic-medicine-mind-bending-health-giving.html, http://www.maps.org/research/psilo/azproto.html, http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/single_dose_of_hallucinogen_may_create_lasting_personality_change, http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6693, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/science/12psychedelics.html?_r=0, http://article.psychiatrist.com/dao_1-login.asp?ID=10002809&RSID=21828409029995, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6210694.stm, http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/aug/12/medicalresearch.drugs,

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 19, 2012
at 02:42 PM

I didn't say that they are universally safe. In fact I said that they are not for everyone, and could be dangerous. You misunderstand me. I am not denying the negative aspects of psychedelics. I'm just trying to get you off your high horse by showing the ways in which it's useful, productive, wholesome, etc. I'm going to stop right here because I can't stand your confrontational and condescending attitude.

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on September 20, 2012
at 12:31 AM

Oh, one more thing: This might be interesting to you. The speaker, Andrew Weil, is a leading researcher and pioneer of health. He founded and directs the Arizona Center for Integrative Medicine. This is him, recently, talking about health: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zy7D7X4Ejg

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 22, 2012
at 12:37 PM

@ Dan - I have finally watched all his videos. I have never been fond of him, (by the way, he believes in whole grains) but he only understands part of the picture. He uses faulty logic. All substances (including coffee, alcohol, etc. etc. etc.) are unnecessary and not beneficial for healthy well-being. If chimps don't do it - we can live without them.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 22, 2012
at 03:50 PM

http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/2c-smiles-killer-drug-every-parent-know-234200299.html

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!