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Paleo Podcast Episode 112: Thoughts on Cordain's Supplement recommendations

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created December 28, 2011 at 9:26 AM

Loren Cordain was the guest feature on Robb Wolf's latest podcast (http://robbwolf.com/2011/12/27/the-paleo-solution-episode-112/).

During the podcast he mentioned that he recommends Vitamin D and Fish oil as the most important supplements for those following a Paleo diet and taking other vitamins/supplements in excess (not from natural food sources) can be harmful.

Share your thoughts...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 29, 2011
at 10:46 AM

http://goo.gl/gsHOl

E9808a9cfe806a22c0bdaff7c010c659

(405)

on December 28, 2011
at 08:24 PM

Google plus ? Or something.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 28, 2011
at 07:15 PM

what is g+...I am interested in your gibberish.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 28, 2011
at 06:38 PM

Oh sh*t. I just remembered - I was never unbanned. Just wait for all powerful mod to wake up. You can find me on g+ if you want more of my gibberish.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 28, 2011
at 04:04 PM

Don't get banned again! I love your posts.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 28, 2011
at 04:03 PM

+1 for holding out hope for a paleolithic mummy!

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6 Answers

5
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 28, 2011
at 02:47 PM

Nonsense.

From Paper "Paleolithic nutrition revisited: A twelve-year retrospective on its nature and implications"

This one is interesting and goes along the evidence that we are all deficient in all micronutrients:

The Paleolithic diet was nutrient-rich;could it have provided dangerous amounts of vitamins and minerals (LOL)? A recent review (Levine et al, 1995) advises against vitamin C intake in excess of 500 mg/d, about 100 mg less than the estimate for Paleolithic humans, that because of concern about producing oxalate stones.However, the relationship between ascorbate intake and formation of such stones is disputed (Diplock, 1995). Iron intake would have been high, but still below the minimum toxic dose (Table 5). Vitamin A consumption would have been well within traditionally accepted limits, but close to the 10 000 IU/d level above which teratogenic effects have recently been identified (Rothman et al, 1995) [LOL, rebutted]. In each case the effects of high nutrient intake within a Paleolithic nutritional-devel- opmental-experiential framework might differ from those of the same nutrient level within the typical afluent Western biobehavioral setting.

Levels compared to the current input:

Vitamins Riboflavin x3.60 Folate x1.49 Thiamin x2.55 Ascorbate x8.38 Carotene x1.70 Vitamin A x2.71 Vitamin E x3.11

Minerals Iron x5.82 Calcium x1.67 Zinc x2.74 Sodium x0.136 Potassium x2.97[/quote]

From: Clinical Nutrition of the Essential Trace Elements and Minerals - Consumption of Trace Elements and Minerals by Preagricultural Humans

In all cases (except for sodium) Paleolithic intake would have exceeded that in the present, usually by twofold or more, whether the data be presented as intake/d or intake/1000 kcal. These estimates for mineral consumption parallel those presented elsewhere for vitamins (16), whose preagricultural intake also ranged from 2 to 8 times higher than that of present day Westerners. For some nutrients (for example folic acid) the intake retrojected for Paleolithic humans would have reached theoretically benefcial levels now thought attainable only through use of supplements.... Epide-miological studies on antioxidants currently seem at odds, (ATBD Study Group, 1994; Sies & Krinsky, 1995) but the evidence that ancestral humans consumed more tocopherol and carotene than do current humans appears straightforward ... With regard to mineral/trace element nutriture our ancestors consumed more each day (generally 23X, but up to 89X for certain nutrients). Sodium is the obvious and solitary exception because current processing, preparation, and flavoring practices artificially increase its consumption. Lack of iodine was probably the only mineral deficiency commonly encountered by preagricultural humans.

From: Micronutrient intakes of wild primates: are humans different?

Though the bioavailability of micronutrients to wild primates is almost totally unstudied, a high intake of various micronutrients (e.g. vitamins ?? and E, provitamin A, calcium) appears to be the norm. The difference between the estimated intake of certain micronutrients by wild primates and humans is striking.

Now, factor in environmental toxins, lack of sunlight, junk/old/cooked/frozen/poor food, drugs and so on...

Actually, on paleo diet you probably need far less vitamin D and fish oil then on any other diet due to regular butter/egg/liver/fish consumption. Those folks really need some educating.

Let me stop here, or I will get banned for honesty

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 28, 2011
at 04:04 PM

Don't get banned again! I love your posts.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on December 28, 2011
at 07:15 PM

what is g+...I am interested in your gibberish.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 28, 2011
at 06:38 PM

Oh sh*t. I just remembered - I was never unbanned. Just wait for all powerful mod to wake up. You can find me on g+ if you want more of my gibberish.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 29, 2011
at 10:46 AM

http://goo.gl/gsHOl

E9808a9cfe806a22c0bdaff7c010c659

(405)

on December 28, 2011
at 08:24 PM

Google plus ? Or something.

3
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on December 28, 2011
at 04:02 PM

I agree with him. In fact, I'm against even taking fish oil. If you're trying to turn around metabolic derangement and extreme sickness, sure fish oil is a good thing. But once you're on track, I don't see anything good about taking an easily oxidized PUFA in concentrated form. The only thing I take is Vit D when I'm not getting enough sun (which, unfortunately is most of the time), and I'll also do some Mg at night, but that's only if I remember.

I'm all about just eating real food and not worrying about the micronutrients, it'll all work out as long as you're not eating crap.

3
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19483)

on December 28, 2011
at 03:06 PM

He is right that we should get most of our nutrition from food. D we get little of because we spend too much time inside. Magnesium is another one due to soil depletion, I don't recall if he mentioned it. Fish oil is needed since CAFO meats lack n3's, but we can make it up by eating loads of fish (at the cost of mercury and PCB contamination.)

It's interesting that he mentioned anti-oxidants as something to avoid. I'm not sure I'm ready to accept that, especially due to the mercury (and other heavy metal) chelation effects it has.

I've seen loads of references to calcium increases the likelihood of heart attacks, so he's absolutely spot on.

I might be wrong in this, but while I agree that we should get all our nutrients from food, after so many years of eating a SAD diet, and knowing that different cells turn over for many years (7?), I think personally I'll stick to supplementation for at least for a few more years, just to undo the all the damage.

As long as I'm still above 10% body fat, (I'm down to about 18-19% after a year of paleo) I'm certain my fat stores are likely to contain toxins that I have to remove, (and high n6's) the extra vitamins and anti-oxidants will probably help counter that.

With all the melting ice around the world, I'm kind of hoping we find another frozen iceman mummy - one from say 20K years ago, hopefully complete with samples of actual food that they ate, so we can examine the nutrient content of it (at least what survived). I'm sure there's some frozen mammoth mummies we've found bits of, maybe someone will try to analyze the content of what's left to figure out how much Vitamin A, E, and mineral levels its flesh had.

That would give us a really great idea of what's ideal for us.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 28, 2011
at 04:03 PM

+1 for holding out hope for a paleolithic mummy!

2
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on December 28, 2011
at 09:34 AM

Vitamin D and fish oil are the big two. However I also need magnesium.

1
E9808a9cfe806a22c0bdaff7c010c659

(405)

on December 28, 2011
at 01:40 PM

I still have to listen to the whole podcast and read the book but for now I think that's a big generalization that probably isn't 100% true. "excess" is a tricky word too so his exact recommendations would leave more room for debate.

0
1d952d225819b0229e93160a90bf9bf8

on December 28, 2011
at 10:54 AM

I take a K2/D3 supplement,a multivitamin,and dandelion.I'm also considering a high quality placenta supplement or deer antler velvet.But that being said,I'm celiac,still healing,and getting ready to try for a baby,so my nutritional needs are a bit different than most people.

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