OK, I want to buy a Mag supplement. The thing is, i can get a Mag+Calcium supplement for almost the same price.
Considering one does not get high doses of Calcium (i know about the whole acid-base jive... :P) in the paleo diet does it make sense to get the combo or am i going to be pissing in the wind?
This question always pops in my head because i'm taking 450 mg Mag daily which is around the RDA value, but wouldn't that also mean i should be taking the supposed 1000 mg. Calcium so that there isn't an imbalance in the Mag/Calcium ratio?
asked byFlavio_M_ (1164)
Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!
on August 13, 2010
at 06:28 PM
I developed bone loss a few years ago and have spent the last 3 years getting my health back. At the health food store they pushed the calcium/mag combo pills on me. I can't take magnesium at all in pill or liquid form because it goes straight through me. I later found out it does that to a lot of people.
So, I went to whole foods and herbs to get my levels up. Veggies are very important to get that magnesium up---lots of greens like collards, mustard, turnip and spinach. All of these I cooked with lard, butter or some bacon grease with lots of onion and sometimes added other veggies in like broccoli, carrots, cauliflower....and meat if I wanted the protein.
For herbs: Nettle, oatstraw with horsetail, and comfrey leaf were rotated on a daily/weekly basis and I drank 2 quarts a day. To make an infusion: pour boiling water over 1 oz of dried herb in a quart glass canning jar and let infuse for 4-8 hours. You can add anything you like as you would for tea or drink plain. A grew to like them with lots of ice like iced tea and sometimes with lemon for the summer.
Getting your vitamins and minerals through whole food/herbal form ensures the amounts are already in the right order, since its all in it's original package.
I ate greens and drank infusions every day for the last year. They helped me regain back my health, and now maca root powder is helping with muscle strength. This is what worked for me. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to email me. [email protected]
I just saw a thread for magnesium oil listed, and I did use that for a while also. Absorbs right through the skin bypassing the digestive system and I really felt good and slept good when I put that on at night. It is a bit itchy because of the natural salts in it, but definately worth it for the calmness it gave me. ~~~s
on August 13, 2010
at 06:56 PM
What I did was use fitday.com to calculate my current calcium and magnesium intake and then worked out my supplements so that the supplements PLUS my food intake would make for a good balance of calcium vs magnesium. Most people seem to recommend an approx 2 to 1 ratio of calcium to magnesium. Since I am female, the RDAs suggest about 1000mg calcium and about 350mg of magnesium daily. So what I do now is take enough supplement for my total intake to be a bit above suggested RDAs and still at approx 2 to 1 ratio (but some say 1 to 1 is better). The end result is I am intaking (food plus supps) about 1200mg calcium and about 600 mg magnesium per day. I may tweek this depending on whatever else I may find out in the future. But this is my opening attack on the problem, n=1 and all that jazz.
One reason I am going a bit over the RDA is because I have noticed that since on paleo, my teeth are getting a bit translucent and I'm getting some weird aches. My teeth have never been translucent in my life so I think there is a prob. The supps seem to have gotten rid of the aches. HOpefully, the teeth will either stop getting translucent or they will improve but it will probably take some time before I will find out. I know that some say that acidic fruit removes tooth enamal, but I find it hard to believe that eating a bit of fruit once per day is enough to remove enamel from healthy teeth. Instead, I think there is a prob with calcium deposition and since sufficient calcium plus magnesium is needed for that,and also happen to be the two nutrients I am not meeting my RDAs on, the coincidence is way too much for me to be stupid enough to ignore. Ironically, I used to eat whole grain wheat bread about 4 times per week and whole grain wheat is a good source of magnesium, so I may have caused additional probs in an already magnesium poor diet when I nixed that source.
Anyway, I got separate pills for the magnesium and the calcium mostly cuz the combo pills at the vitamin store all had the oxide form of magnesium which is poorly digested. Some say you should take the two separately and separate times of day and other say it doesn't matter much. I am not yet decided about who is right. I do want to intake smaller amounts twice daily instead of one big dose. This improves digestion. So I may end up taking them together at half dosage twice per day. One thing for sure is that they say magnesium oxide has very poor digestability so steer clear. Most magnesium supps contain all or some magnesium oxide. One study showed only 6% digestability of the oxide form! That's close to useless! What I bought is a chelated form in which the magnesium is chelated (bound) to amino acids for better digestion. SUpposedly, this form also does not upset the intestines either.
For calcium I bought calcium carbonate, although some say this one is less ideal because it has some effect at neutralizing stomach acids and may be about 25% less digestable. Best solution might be to intake it with acidic foods. My stomach acids seem fine so I was not super worried about it and I figured it would good enough at least until I had time to do more research. Many people seem to think calcium citrate might be one of the better sups for calcium. Tons of info here: http://www.advancedhealthplan.com/Calcium_Citrate.html
I am thinking down the line of grinding up some healthy homegrown chicken bones for use as a supp, but need to do some research. Some are saying calcium phosphate may not be ideal as it further throws off the calcium phosphorous balance for those who are eating a high phosphorous diet (like paleo) Increased phosphorous intake (like in paleo) is said to drive need for more calcium, which may indicate blowing off calcium RDAs may not always be a good idea for paleo eaters.
Oh and in case anyone feels the need to mention vitamin D, yes, I am working hard to get my direct sun intake every day so my D levels are probably higher now than they have ever been. Therefore, it is unlikely that lack of D is causing my translucent teeth. However, improved levels of D can also increase need for Calcium so it may be that improved D levels may actually by driving my teeth prob by further undermining what was already a calcium poor diet. If intake levels of important nutrients are already borderline, it might not take much to tip the balance to a critical level.
Blah, it all gets so complicated! It can be hard to figure out what to do, but I do know I don't want to sit around and watch and my teeth turn tranluscent while my joints ache. My plan is to try to supplement judiciously in only those areas where I appear to be lacking and then go from there. Magnesium and calcium seem to be the big critical areas for me. I seem to be blowing the roof off of most of the other RDA levels.
on August 13, 2010
at 05:53 PM
Well, make sure the Mag. is not the oxide form as it's is only ~4% bioavailable. Also, its best to take Mag. before bed (helps to relax) and not together with calcium - they don't absorb as well together. There's a nice thread on magnesium over at the active low-carbers forum - especially the posts by Hutchinson. forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=413854
You can actually overdo the calcium if Vitamin D is high and Mag is too low. I would say half that amount of Calcium is plenty. Assuming you are eating some veggies...
on August 13, 2010
at 09:39 PM
No need for calcium supplements, in my opinion. Better to take D, K, and mag in paleo-appropriate doses. Is there even an argument as to why we would be getting less calcium nowadays than in paleo times?
on August 13, 2010
at 06:27 PM
Be careful on Calcium, don't OD, creep it up gradually, use Calcium Citrate, and bathe in the sun, or take Vit D3 softgels 400-1000IU/day, depending on your serum 25-OH D levels.
I can personally say that Magnesium Citrate is THE best form of Mg I have ever taken for fibromyalgia and other body pains. The problem is mild laxative effects the next day, so I would advice to split the dose evenly and distribute it all throughout the day.
I also Mg Malate but the one by NOW Foods has Calcium in it. I get really bad migraines if I take even normal values of Calcium. Mg Glycinate is also bioavailable.