2

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krill oil better for men? synthetic omega 3's are better? vitamin d dangerous for high calcium folks?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 30, 2010 at 6:53 PM

Sorry if this question is a bit long but I figured I'd give some background info.

After watching me respond really well to paleo during my first four weeks on it, my wife who has a number of medical issues (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, insulin resistance) got over her reservations and has taken on this way of eating as well. Big change for her as she'd spent the two years prior as a vegetarian. We're both in our early to mid 30s and obese. The diet has been really effective for me so far (down 27 pounds in 8 weeks), much less so for my wife... though she reports feeling better she hasn't really seen much in the way of fat loss yet. She had shed some pounds in the last week or two but that also coincided with the beginning of her taking metformin. Today when the scale showed she'd gained 2 and a half pounds since her last weigh-in she was notably demoralized. But that's another story...

I've been supplementing Vitamin D and Fish Oil and because of her health issues I was suggesting she do the same - perhaps with Krill Oil due to its supposed benefits for those with arthritis.

She wants to rule vitamin D out because her blood test last month (pre-paleo) showed very high calcium levels in her blood - indicating parathyroidism perhaps. She's being re-tested today. But is it true that vitamin d supplements are dangerous for those with high levels of calcium in the blood?

Because she already takes so much medicine she was also opposed to starting with fish oil without asking her doctor. This didn't make much sense to me because it's just some fat which could be a dietary addition as well so why would it conflict with medicines but I wasn't ready to battle on the subject so I waited for her doctor visit.

Well she saw her rheumatologist today and asked about krill / fish oil and I'm pretty surprised by what the doctor said and wanted to get this community's feedback.

For one thing she warned her against krill oil, saying she never recommends it for women. That it works better for men. My wife reports that the doctor also suggested that fish oil or krill oil could react badly with her current regime of medicines. Finally she also told my wife that if she wants to take fish oil she should seek out a synthetic version instead.

All those statements are kind of confounding to me. I wasn't there to ask the doctor about it myself... But what do you guys think of these claims?

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on December 04, 2010
at 03:32 AM

she tested at a 17. we haven't heard back yet on her test from the other day. thanks for the link - going to check now.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:45 PM

Vit D Council website http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:35 PM

I would add that I think your wife needs a paleo friendly physician that will look at how her whole system is functioning...instead of looking at just the symptoms of dis-ease that are manifesting themselves in your wife. Vit D issue: Roam around the Vit D Council website about Cal and Vit D as well as Dr. Davis blog already linked in original reply. I looked at my Calcium level. Reference range is 8.3 to 10.4 mg/dL Is she much higher than reference?

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:24 PM

I would add that I think your wife needs a paleo friendly physician that will look at how her whole system is functioning...instead of looking at just the symptoms of dis-ease that are manifesting themselves in your wife. Good luck and keep this community posted on your progress...and there will be progress.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:20 PM

Your wife being happy with her rheumatologist is a signal that the rheumatologist is telling your wife what she WANTS to hear..not what she NEEDS to hear. It sounds like all the discussion is focused around magic pills prescribed by the doctor to alleviate the problems..not on the real problem-which is her diet. I would send you to Dr Ayers at http://coolinginflamation.blogspot.com His focus is mainly on gut flora health and restoring-healing the gut so that the body will heal itself. The manifestations of arthritis and diabetes is the body's reaction to our consumption of non paleo products

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:17 PM

Your wife being happy with her rheumatologist is a signal that the rheumatologist is telling your wife what she WANTS to hear...not what she NEEDS to hear. It sounds like all the discussion is focused around pills prescribed by the doctor to alleviate the problems..not on the real problem..which is her diet. I would send you to Dr Ayers at http://coolinginflamation.blogspot.com His focus is mainly on gut flora health and restoring-healing the gut so that the body will heal itself. The manifestations of arthritis and diabetes is the body's reaction to our consumption of non paleo products.

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on December 03, 2010
at 03:54 PM

And she did start taking fish oil so that's a plus even if she won't listen about the krill. The only thing I'm left wondering on, out of the 3 things I asked about, is vitamin d supplements being harmful for those already showing very high calcium levels in the blood. I told her to request the results of her latest blood work so hopefully soon I'll have actual numbers to go along with that question.

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on December 03, 2010
at 03:49 PM

Thanks very much. I actually don't live in Brooklyn (though I did grow up there) and I see one of those physicians from that blog is right nearby in Mamaroneck NY. She's happy with her rheumatologist though, compared to the other doctors she's seen through the past 15 years of battling health issues. So I think I'm just going to have to stop pushing for better/better-explained answers. In any case, she's already starting to feel better from paleo eating even if she refuses to consider the why's and how's and how it could be even better.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on December 02, 2010
at 06:03 PM

@David: excellent answer. Just this morning on WNYC.org Lopate had a guest on covering this exact issue. Just brings us back to "food be thy medicine" and all.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on November 30, 2010
at 09:03 PM

You and your wife need to seek a second opinion.

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on November 30, 2010
at 08:24 PM

the doctor is a she but yes i sort of assumed that could be the only benefit of a synthetic version!

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4 Answers

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06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 02, 2010
at 05:01 PM

It sounds like the overarching problem for your wife is the consumption of wheat products, corn products and sugar. If both of you can/will eliminate every iota of these products in all forms...most if not all of your weight problems and medical problems will eventually be eliminated. And being a former vegetarian did not help her condition. It only exerabated her diabetes to the point where her pancreas are not putting out enough insulin to control the spike in blood sugar that results from eating the wheat, corn and sugar. Eliminate these and the arthritis and diabetes should abate.

Eat lots of meat and fat and vegetables slathered in butter and salads with olive oil and vinegar. Cook with coconut oil or butter.

There are many accounts of how vegetarianism and veganism has nearly destroyed people's health.
http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more

http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/441289060/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-kaleigh-mason

http://paleodietlifestyle.com/how-steve-pavlina-almost-killed-me/

Jimmy Moore has put together a list of paleo friendly physicians. None in Brooklyn but some close by. Get another physician as Patrik says. http://lowcarbdoctors.blogspot.com/

I have never seen any reference to Krill Oil not being ok for women. I know that Dr. Eades and his physician wife advocate the use of Krill for everyone.

Dr. William Davis at http://www.heartscanblog.blogspot.com says do not supplement with more than 400mg of calcium a day if supplementating with Vit D3. Good levels of Vit D3 of 50 to 60ng fosters excellent update of calcium so no need to oversupplement. Many in the paleo community supplement with 4-5000IU/day. Or you can spend 30 min a day in Brooklyn out in the sun everyday. Brr in Brooklyn. Most people in the US are deficient in Vit D3 and especially the Northeast. Not enough sunlight.

Your wife being happy with her rheumatologist is a signal that the rheumatologist is telling your wife what she WANTS to hear..not what she NEEDS to hear. It sounds like all the discussion is focused around magic pills prescribed by the doctor to alleviate the problems..not on the real problem-which is her diet. I would send you to Dr Ayers at http://coolinginflamation.blogspot.com His focus is mainly on gut flora health and restoring-healing the gut so that the body will heal itself. The manifestations of arthritis and diabetes is the body's reaction to our consumption of non paleo products

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:17 PM

Your wife being happy with her rheumatologist is a signal that the rheumatologist is telling your wife what she WANTS to hear...not what she NEEDS to hear. It sounds like all the discussion is focused around pills prescribed by the doctor to alleviate the problems..not on the real problem..which is her diet. I would send you to Dr Ayers at http://coolinginflamation.blogspot.com His focus is mainly on gut flora health and restoring-healing the gut so that the body will heal itself. The manifestations of arthritis and diabetes is the body's reaction to our consumption of non paleo products.

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on December 03, 2010
at 03:49 PM

Thanks very much. I actually don't live in Brooklyn (though I did grow up there) and I see one of those physicians from that blog is right nearby in Mamaroneck NY. She's happy with her rheumatologist though, compared to the other doctors she's seen through the past 15 years of battling health issues. So I think I'm just going to have to stop pushing for better/better-explained answers. In any case, she's already starting to feel better from paleo eating even if she refuses to consider the why's and how's and how it could be even better.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:20 PM

Your wife being happy with her rheumatologist is a signal that the rheumatologist is telling your wife what she WANTS to hear..not what she NEEDS to hear. It sounds like all the discussion is focused around magic pills prescribed by the doctor to alleviate the problems..not on the real problem-which is her diet. I would send you to Dr Ayers at http://coolinginflamation.blogspot.com His focus is mainly on gut flora health and restoring-healing the gut so that the body will heal itself. The manifestations of arthritis and diabetes is the body's reaction to our consumption of non paleo products

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on December 04, 2010
at 03:32 AM

she tested at a 17. we haven't heard back yet on her test from the other day. thanks for the link - going to check now.

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on December 03, 2010
at 03:54 PM

And she did start taking fish oil so that's a plus even if she won't listen about the krill. The only thing I'm left wondering on, out of the 3 things I asked about, is vitamin d supplements being harmful for those already showing very high calcium levels in the blood. I told her to request the results of her latest blood work so hopefully soon I'll have actual numbers to go along with that question.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:35 PM

I would add that I think your wife needs a paleo friendly physician that will look at how her whole system is functioning...instead of looking at just the symptoms of dis-ease that are manifesting themselves in your wife. Vit D issue: Roam around the Vit D Council website about Cal and Vit D as well as Dr. Davis blog already linked in original reply. I looked at my Calcium level. Reference range is 8.3 to 10.4 mg/dL Is she much higher than reference?

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:24 PM

I would add that I think your wife needs a paleo friendly physician that will look at how her whole system is functioning...instead of looking at just the symptoms of dis-ease that are manifesting themselves in your wife. Good luck and keep this community posted on your progress...and there will be progress.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 03, 2010
at 06:45 PM

Vit D Council website http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

1
F7f299ffd1957643be9621086081169f

on November 30, 2010
at 08:12 PM

Of course he recommends a synthetic version of Omega-3. It is called Lovaza and requires a prescription. The sexy drug rep that visits him throwing prescription medications at him probably convinced him with marketing literature that man-made processed Omega-3 is "better".

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on December 02, 2010
at 06:03 PM

@David: excellent answer. Just this morning on WNYC.org Lopate had a guest on covering this exact issue. Just brings us back to "food be thy medicine" and all.

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on November 30, 2010
at 08:24 PM

the doctor is a she but yes i sort of assumed that could be the only benefit of a synthetic version!

1
0d821bf7d4028b84a6838062db0e9ce0

(754)

on November 30, 2010
at 07:13 PM

as far as D (liquid based D3 form I'm assuming) the co-factors are very important

  • magnesium (most important)
  • zinc
  • vitamin K2 (might be the issue as it basically makes sure the calcium goes where its needed instead of randomly depositing, however it can have issues with some anti-inflammatory drugs and warfarin)
  • boron
  • a tiny amount of vitamin A

High levels of D without enough of the co-factors (better absorbed forms can be important too) can cause your body to leech the co-factors from your bones to keep up with the D levels,WAP has has some pretty good info on k2 here's a link to an overview

as far as krill oil maybe its the high amount of antioxidant in the form of Astaxanthin? (think its supposed to have an anti-inflammatory effect as well?) I believe it easily crosses the blood/brain barrier and may have some interactions due to that can't remember the papers I read but there's a number of them on PubMed.

0
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on December 05, 2010
at 12:15 PM

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/sardi-statement-fnb-vitamin-d-report.shtml

There is a report out by the nation's Food and Nutrition Board that is being blown out of the water for its recomendation of taking 600IU a day..up from 200IU a day.

The Vit D council is only one of many organizations and physicians that have publically lambasted the recommendation.

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