1

votes

GERD and supplements!!

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 28, 2012 at 3:42 AM

With any luck, Melissa from (HGL) can answer this one.

Here's a current list of supplements I'm taking:

Chelated Magnesium
Wild Salmon Oil
Licorce extract
Probiotics
Multi-vitamin
B-vitamin complex
Digestive enzymes
Niacin
Digestive Bitters
HCL + pepsin
Choline
Biotin
L-glutamine

That's all (yes, sarcastic paleo people, I know that's a lot). My main issue is with GERD/LPR. Could any of these supplements (or all of them) be stalling the healing process?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 01:34 PM

I wonder, though. Should I even bother with the multi-vit, B-vit, magnesium, ect.? Some of that stuff seemed to help, and I'm not worried about the quality at all (top of the line, allergen free stuff).

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 01:32 PM

Also, solid sleep in a dark room, exercise several times a week, and try and keep stress under control. I listened to Robert Sapolsky's Gut -Mind Connection seminar, and apparently stress can kill your digestive system...yet doctors say it "may" play a role in illness...

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on May 28, 2012
at 08:01 AM

"just stick with paleo and find what works for you" missionman, well put. I am color-blind. Are you color-blind? Probably not. Not everyone is color-blind. And not everyone will have the same ideal paleo diet. My wife's ancestors were heavy on the fish side of things. My ancestors less fish and more land animals.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 06:15 AM

I admit that for awhile, I was hardcore into SAD (boxes of whole wheat pasta and loaves of Ezekiel bread) to gain mass for weightlifting. Then I started having frequent urinary troubles + back pain. The doctors found nothing, and kept prescribing drug after drug (steroid shots into the back and antibiotics for the bladder/prostate). They then told me to start popping NSAIDs like they were candy. This was my regimen for nearly 2 years. Needless to say, I've probably done a lot of damage. The only thing that scares me are the symptoms like the dysphagia and such. Did you ever have that, Melissa?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 28, 2012
at 05:12 AM

I've eaten SED (standard European diet) periodically since getting rid of my GERD and it's never come back, except for once after I ate really really badly, drank a lot, and took lots of NSAIDS while on a backpacking trip. Malnutrition + inflammation + bacterial overgrowth + NSAID related erosion are probably the main triggers for me. Not wheat or some specific food.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 28, 2012
at 05:10 AM

Your diet looks OK, I might research FODMAPs and remove the kale for now. The supplements are probably not helping and might remove any benefits of being that low-carb if they feed bacteria (anything in iron like the multivitamin is going to do this, some other supplements might also feed them too). You should also try eating some eggs too. And more food in general. You don't have to be LC forever, you might try adding in some rice or fruit after two weeks or so.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 28, 2012
at 05:08 AM

As far as I know PPIs, can reduce dysplasia in Barrett's but not remove it. There is no study I can find that shows PPIs prevent it. Most people with untreated GERD do not get it. Also your friends PPIs might not have been working- some people over time develop some immunity to the pain of erosion and then she wouldn't have realized that the PPIs weren't working anymore. That happens more than you would think. Prilosec stopped working for me. I was on Nexium and after I had salmonella that stopped working too.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 05:00 AM

VB, any particular brand? Also, I've been doing the licorice extract for awhile now, and it hasn't raised my BP at all. Stress sure did a couple of times, though!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:44 AM

@Rigton - Not licorice - DGL. DGL does not raise blood pressure, licorice does. And make sure to chew it - it is better when mixed with saliva.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:15 AM

Yeah, a friend of mine just got diagnosed with Barrett's :( My herbalist swears herbs + paleo can help her, but I don't know...what I do know is that she took PPIs for twenty + years and she still ended up with Barrett's. When she started proselytizing to me about them, I asked, "But you still ended up with it? What good did they really do?" She didn't have an answer for that, of course.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:12 AM

See for me, the IBS is still a factor, and obviously the GERD. What paleo resolved immediately were my psychological issues (anxiety/depression) and my bladder/prostate and back problems. I will say this about the IBS though, it no longer makes me afraid to go to the bathroom! Seriously, gluten made it feel like the gates of hell where in my posterior!

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:10 AM

Yeah, I was on Zantac and/or Tecta for five years...the only thing it helped in was shrinking my bank account. Also agree on the HCl, I didn't find it particularily useful.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:09 AM

Also, Melissa, do you know if the esophagus can heal after GERD? I was having some throat pressure and a little bit of swallowing trouble (which Raydawg said was definitely GERD and resolved when his GERD went away).

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:07 AM

5 oz. wild-caught sockeye salmon 2 cups of sauteed spinach 1 cup of bone broth

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:06 AM

Yeah, he's a great guy, though and wants me to try paleo and everything else first. He just mentioned that some people have no alternative, and that he doesn't want me to wind up with Barrett's or something. I'm confused about this whole low carb thing. I mean, I know what low carb is! It's just that I'm not sure if I'm doing it right (insert random gif here, ha!): Here's what I had today (by the way, I've based this off of your and Chris Kesser's suggestions) 3 ounces of lamb liver 4 ounces of 90% lean grass-fed beef 1 cup of bone broth (homemade) 2 cups of kale

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:06 AM

No, paleo didn't factor in, I dealt with all of this many years before I discovered it. I was eating a lot of bland chicken and rice due to stomach ulcers around that time. I went vegan shortly after. The GERD (and the ulcers too) resolved while I was still eating wheat. Getting off of soda and antacids were the big factors for me.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:00 AM

Oh, okay. Yeah, I took PPIs for only a month, thankfully. Did nothing...absolutely nothing (Nexium 40mg too!). In fact, it gave me the worst stomach pains ever. I really don't want to resort to that or surgery :( I'm hoping paleo will cure it, but sometimes it seems like there's good days and bad days, and it's hard to tell when progress is being made. Raney, did you go paleo when you quit though? Or did you go paleo later on (after the issue resolved)? I guess I'm trying to figure if paleo helped your reflux or not.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on May 28, 2012
at 03:59 AM

Just a theory; but its the only thing on your list that stands out to me.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on May 28, 2012
at 03:57 AM

No no, my condition progressively got worse during the couple years I let them feed me Zantac and Prilosec (a PPI.) When I cold-turkey quit all antacids, there was a couple weeks of absolute hell, but after that, the healing process began. I'm saying that taking anything that modifies your natural stomach acidity could be potentially exacerbating, HCL included.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 03:54 AM

Do you mean to say six months stopping Zantac AND going from SAD to paleo, or are you saying you still ate SAD and the Zantac fixed it? I'm not saying that sardonically either. Some doctors I talk to swear up and down you just have to talk PPIs for a little bit (a few months maybe) and when the situation resolves you get off them. I'm worried about the damage it could be doing to my system. Which of course, is not helping with stress...

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on May 28, 2012
at 03:52 AM

Sleeping on a slightly angled mattress provided a lot of relief during the interim period. Gravity is good stuff.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on May 28, 2012
at 03:48 AM

Could it perhaps be due to the HCL? My GERD resolved itself naturally within six months of stopping Zantac (while still eating SAD); I'm weary about messing with the stomach's natural acidity/enzymes in either direction.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 03:44 AM

My herbalist, who is extremely paleo, has me on: magnesium, salmon oil, licorice (sorry I spelled it wrong up there), bitters, probiotics, multi-vitamin, b-vitamin, enzymes, L-glutamine. The niacin, hcl, choline, and biotin are all my ideas.

  • E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

    asked by

    (1307)
  • Views
    2.4K
  • Last Activity
    1432D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

5 Answers

best answer

4
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 28, 2012
at 03:59 AM

Yikes. In my opinion that's just too much and makes it hard to ID what's even going on. WHy not try going off them and doing a very low carb diet? Also I'd ditch the HCL. It didn't help me very much. Have a protein rich breakfast of steak or some other meat and chew it well, it should help stimulate stomach acid.

Your doctor is wrong about the Zantac. Very few people with GERD ever get off Zantac because the science shows that GERD is not caused by "acid damage" anyway.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:09 AM

Also, Melissa, do you know if the esophagus can heal after GERD? I was having some throat pressure and a little bit of swallowing trouble (which Raydawg said was definitely GERD and resolved when his GERD went away).

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:06 AM

Yeah, he's a great guy, though and wants me to try paleo and everything else first. He just mentioned that some people have no alternative, and that he doesn't want me to wind up with Barrett's or something. I'm confused about this whole low carb thing. I mean, I know what low carb is! It's just that I'm not sure if I'm doing it right (insert random gif here, ha!): Here's what I had today (by the way, I've based this off of your and Chris Kesser's suggestions) 3 ounces of lamb liver 4 ounces of 90% lean grass-fed beef 1 cup of bone broth (homemade) 2 cups of kale

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 28, 2012
at 05:08 AM

As far as I know PPIs, can reduce dysplasia in Barrett's but not remove it. There is no study I can find that shows PPIs prevent it. Most people with untreated GERD do not get it. Also your friends PPIs might not have been working- some people over time develop some immunity to the pain of erosion and then she wouldn't have realized that the PPIs weren't working anymore. That happens more than you would think. Prilosec stopped working for me. I was on Nexium and after I had salmonella that stopped working too.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:07 AM

5 oz. wild-caught sockeye salmon 2 cups of sauteed spinach 1 cup of bone broth

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:15 AM

Yeah, a friend of mine just got diagnosed with Barrett's :( My herbalist swears herbs + paleo can help her, but I don't know...what I do know is that she took PPIs for twenty + years and she still ended up with Barrett's. When she started proselytizing to me about them, I asked, "But you still ended up with it? What good did they really do?" She didn't have an answer for that, of course.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:10 AM

Yeah, I was on Zantac and/or Tecta for five years...the only thing it helped in was shrinking my bank account. Also agree on the HCl, I didn't find it particularily useful.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 28, 2012
at 05:10 AM

Your diet looks OK, I might research FODMAPs and remove the kale for now. The supplements are probably not helping and might remove any benefits of being that low-carb if they feed bacteria (anything in iron like the multivitamin is going to do this, some other supplements might also feed them too). You should also try eating some eggs too. And more food in general. You don't have to be LC forever, you might try adding in some rice or fruit after two weeks or so.

2
A3ff262a2686d79789e09a26013901b3

on May 28, 2012
at 03:58 AM

I was taking nexium before paleo. It didn't take long after not eating wheat products for all my IBS and GERD synptoms to disapear. You could also try a GAPS protocol. I'm not a herbalist so I can't answer your question directly, but just stick with paleo and find what works for you. You should be fine in no time.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 04:12 AM

See for me, the IBS is still a factor, and obviously the GERD. What paleo resolved immediately were my psychological issues (anxiety/depression) and my bladder/prostate and back problems. I will say this about the IBS though, it no longer makes me afraid to go to the bathroom! Seriously, gluten made it feel like the gates of hell where in my posterior!

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on May 28, 2012
at 08:01 AM

"just stick with paleo and find what works for you" missionman, well put. I am color-blind. Are you color-blind? Probably not. Not everyone is color-blind. And not everyone will have the same ideal paleo diet. My wife's ancestors were heavy on the fish side of things. My ancestors less fish and more land animals.

1
E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 01:26 PM

Okay, paleo people. Here's my GERD-B-Gone plan for the next two weeks.

1.) VLC (20g or less a day per what I read in one of the reports Melissa posted)

2.) Eat plenty of seaweed, grass-fed beef, wild caught fishes, carrots, spinach, bok choy...any other FODMAP friendly suggestions? (OH, and bone broth with every meal!)

3.) Discontinue all supplements for two weeks except: Vit-D (I tested low for this, and I simply do not get enough sun time), L-glutamine (I cannot imagine this is doing any harm, and I've read to many reports about it rebuilding the gut lining/healing an inflamed gut), the salmon oil (Omega-3) and probiotics (needed for gut rebuilding, right?) unless someone can give me specific reasons why any of those should go. When things settle down, I'll reintroduce supplements one by one.

4.) Start every breakfast protein heavy.

5.) Eat more liver and...eggs gulp (I thought those where against the auto-immune protocol?)

6.) Can I eat sauerkraut while doing this? Cabbage is a major FODMAP apparently, but people recommend fermented foods...

Just a few questions left though: The guy who runs Free The Animal (sorry that I cannot remember his name) says he uses baking soda to quell his GERD while getting everything under control. Melissa says to use AVC. I'm confused. People keep saying, "if it makes it worse don't do it!" problem is, sometimes you can't tell if it's making it worse or not. For instance, did the AVC give me heartburn or did the meal, or did the universe?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 01:34 PM

I wonder, though. Should I even bother with the multi-vit, B-vit, magnesium, ect.? Some of that stuff seemed to help, and I'm not worried about the quality at all (top of the line, allergen free stuff).

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 28, 2012
at 01:32 PM

Also, solid sleep in a dark room, exercise several times a week, and try and keep stress under control. I listened to Robert Sapolsky's Gut -Mind Connection seminar, and apparently stress can kill your digestive system...yet doctors say it "may" play a role in illness...

0
De267f213b375efca5da07890e5efc25

(3747)

on May 29, 2012
at 02:45 PM

After a trip to Latin America and a course of antibiotics, I developed what a Radiologist called "Marked Gastroparesis" for about 2 years, causing reflux so bad I frequently lost my voice and burned my mouth. Here's what works:

  • Get some bed risers and incline the head of your bed. Funky pillows suck.
  • Get tested for sleep apnea. It is a common and often missed cause of nighttime reflux.
  • Consider taking Domperidone. It is OTC and generic in many countries but not approved for sale in the US (the only country). It is a prokinetic agent that will reduce the time food stays in your stomach. People have been taking it for decades with few problems esp relative to PPIs. My Canadian GI said he used to prescribe it like its water. I used a low dose and starting seeing benefits in about a month.
  • Try d-Limonene. It is considered safe but not much is known about it.
  • Do controlled movement exercises. I found Tai Chi to be very helpful in emptying the stomach. I think the Rhymthic movements help things move along in addition to calming the nerves.
  • Beware of rebound effects when making any changes.

0
F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

on May 28, 2012
at 07:58 AM

raney, a lot of people swear by home made kefir. I drink multiple cups of home made kefir every day, and I think that it is paleo, but I do not have GERD. But many people swear that it has helped all manner of gastrointestinal problems.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!