2

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Essential supplements?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 25, 2010 at 3:33 AM

What supplements do you consider essential while being on a Paleo lifestyle, i.e. what we naturally get from (modern day) food is insufficient?

The only one I can think of is vitamin D3. Any others?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 27, 2010
at 08:09 AM

@Paleo Dave. In my experience magnesium is often one that isn't covered by a good multivitamin, because were adequate amounts of magnesium included in most supplements then they'd be impracticably huge.

56e8e22796618ea3b817d4aae19c6e33

(474)

on February 27, 2010
at 04:58 AM

The Eades argue (in PPLP) that unsoftened drinking water was traditionally a major source of Mg.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on February 25, 2010
at 06:05 PM

Also, I posted extra info in a separate answer.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on February 25, 2010
at 06:01 PM

Thank guys! This sponsored article includes references: http://www.algaecal.com/magnesium/magnesium-benefits.html

5cd18bfcafadc56292971e59f2f1faf6

(2475)

on February 25, 2010
at 05:50 PM

Magnesium is one of the minerals lost in soil depletion so it's correct to say that the amount in food has been substantially reduced in modern times. The stuff is naturally deposited in soil through geological processes that run a heck of a lot slower than human agricultural processes. It's one of those cases that I hoped a good multi would take care of but I'm not sure. I'm not very familiar with the specific health benefits of magnesium. Anyone have a good article link about this?

F6c1df7d5699661bd1f0d6d0a6c17fc6

on February 25, 2010
at 01:47 PM

I was trying to find nutritional data for bone marrow, as I have heard that marrow, and other bony things like ligaments, cartilage and such are a good source of magnesium. Not found any yet though..

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 25, 2010
at 08:52 AM

Agreed, Stephan's latest post suggests benefits to getting magnesium far above the RDA too. I find it difficult to get sufficient magnesium (by RDA standards) without eating a tonne of vegetables/nuts, so I stick with 3-500g spinach daily. Other than that it's difficult to find any good, LC sources. It's suspicious that we would benefit from so much Mg when it's so hard to get: either HGs ate lots of plants, food has substantially reduced in Mg content over the years, something is increasing our needs, or Mg needs are far less when eating LC (like vit C).

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on February 25, 2010
at 07:54 AM

What do you think about magnesium. Many of us are perhaps somewhat insulin resistant and I've read that that's linked to magnesium deficiency. Any thoughts?

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6 Answers

4
15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on February 25, 2010
at 05:36 PM

Don't forget magnesium (used to be in our water and is not anymore), as almost everyone is deficient and deficiency increase the risk of heart disease and cancer.

3
5cd18bfcafadc56292971e59f2f1faf6

on February 25, 2010
at 05:14 AM

Worth taking daily...

  • Vitamin D3.
  • DHA/EPA fish oil capsules. This helps keep the omega 3:6 ratio under control.

Might be worth it, might not...

  • A multivitamin. There's an argument that the soil that our vegetables are grown in has been depleted of its natural minerals from overuse. A multivitamin might help fill in the blanks. The value of this isn't really clear so I've been off and on with taking a multivitamin.

And just to throw something crazy in...

  • Creatine. There have been some recent posts on Conditioning Research about creatine that have been fairly convincing that it could have some significant strength and cognitive benefits. You get creatine naturally from meat but the research suggests there might be some benefits in supplementing with this particularly for populations that don't eat sufficient meat. In a Paleo context, I'm thinking this might be beneficial for newcomers to Paleo who came from a prior low to no meat diet.

5cd18bfcafadc56292971e59f2f1faf6

(2475)

on February 25, 2010
at 05:50 PM

Magnesium is one of the minerals lost in soil depletion so it's correct to say that the amount in food has been substantially reduced in modern times. The stuff is naturally deposited in soil through geological processes that run a heck of a lot slower than human agricultural processes. It's one of those cases that I hoped a good multi would take care of but I'm not sure. I'm not very familiar with the specific health benefits of magnesium. Anyone have a good article link about this?

F6c1df7d5699661bd1f0d6d0a6c17fc6

on February 25, 2010
at 01:47 PM

I was trying to find nutritional data for bone marrow, as I have heard that marrow, and other bony things like ligaments, cartilage and such are a good source of magnesium. Not found any yet though..

56e8e22796618ea3b817d4aae19c6e33

(474)

on February 27, 2010
at 04:58 AM

The Eades argue (in PPLP) that unsoftened drinking water was traditionally a major source of Mg.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on February 25, 2010
at 06:01 PM

Thank guys! This sponsored article includes references: http://www.algaecal.com/magnesium/magnesium-benefits.html

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on February 25, 2010
at 06:05 PM

Also, I posted extra info in a separate answer.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 25, 2010
at 08:52 AM

Agreed, Stephan's latest post suggests benefits to getting magnesium far above the RDA too. I find it difficult to get sufficient magnesium (by RDA standards) without eating a tonne of vegetables/nuts, so I stick with 3-500g spinach daily. Other than that it's difficult to find any good, LC sources. It's suspicious that we would benefit from so much Mg when it's so hard to get: either HGs ate lots of plants, food has substantially reduced in Mg content over the years, something is increasing our needs, or Mg needs are far less when eating LC (like vit C).

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 27, 2010
at 08:09 AM

@Paleo Dave. In my experience magnesium is often one that isn't covered by a good multivitamin, because were adequate amounts of magnesium included in most supplements then they'd be impracticably huge.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on February 25, 2010
at 07:54 AM

What do you think about magnesium. Many of us are perhaps somewhat insulin resistant and I've read that that's linked to magnesium deficiency. Any thoughts?

2
03aeff8d87a3b53a449b5b8e9158da98

(3268)

on February 25, 2010
at 03:54 PM

What about K2? It's Weston Price's Activator X (the key missing ingredient that differentiates SAD from HG diets). Richard and Stephan both recommend it. Here's a post from Stephan:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/06/vitamin-k2-menatetrenone-mk-4.html

Tuesday, June 17, 2008

Vitamin K2, menatetrenone (MK-4)

Weston Price established the importance of the MK-4 isoform of vitamin K2 (hereafter, K2) with a series of interesting experiments. He showed in chickens that blood levels of calcium and phosphorus depended both on vitamin A and K2, and that the two had synergistic effects on mineral absorption. He also showed that chickens preferred eating butter that was rich in K2 over butter low in K2, even when the investigators couldn't distinguish between them. Young turkeys fed K2-containing butter oil along with cod liver oil (A and D) also grew at a much faster rate than turkeys fed cod liver oil alone.

He hypothesized that vitamin A, vitamin D and vitamin K2 were synergistic and essential for proper growth and subsequent health. He particularly felt that the combination was important for proper mineral absorption and metabolism. He used a combination of high-vitamin cod liver oil and high-vitamin butter oil to heal cavities, reduce oral bacteria counts, and cure numerous other afflictions in his patients. He also showed that the healthy non-industrial groups he studied had a much higher intake of these fat-soluble, animal-derived vitamins than more modern cultures.

Price found an inverse correlation between the levels of K2 in butter and mortality from cardiovascular disease and pneumonia in a number of different regions. A recent study examined the relationship between K2 (MK-4 through 10) consumption and heart attack risk in 4,600 Dutch men. They found a strong inverse association between K2 consumption and heart attack mortality risk. Men with the highest K2 consumption had a whopping 51% lower risk of heart attack mortality and a 26% lower risk of death from all causes compared to men eating the least K2! Their sources of K2 MK-4 were eggs, meats and dairy. They obtained MK-5 through MK-10 from fermented foods and fish. The investigators found no association with K1, the form found in plants.

Perigord, France is the world's capital of foie gras, or fatty goose liver. Good news for the bon vivants: foie gras turns out to be the richest known source of K2. Perigord also has the lowest rate of cardiovascular mortality in France, a country already noted for its low CVD mortality.

Rats fed warfarin, a drug that inhibits K2 recycling, develop arterial calcification. Feeding the rats K2 completely inhibits this effect. Mice lacking matrix Gla protein (MGP), a vitamin K-dependent protein that guards against arterial calcification, develop heavily calcified aortas and die prematurely. So the link between K2 and cardiovascular disease is a very strong one.

Mammals can synthesize K2 MK-4 from K1, but humans seem to be bad at it since most of us are K2 deficient despite eating ample K1. This suggests that through evolution, we lost the ability to synthesize K2 in sufficient amounts because we always obtained it abundantly in our diets from nutrient-dense animal tissues.

The synergism Weston Price observed between vitamins A, D and K2 now has a solid mechanism. In a nutshell, vitamins A and D signal the production of some very important proteins, and K2 is required to activate them once they are made. Many of these proteins are involved in mineral metabolism, thus the effects Price saw in his experiments and observations in non-industrialized cultures. For example, osteocalcin is a protein that organizes calcium and phosphorus deposition in the bones and teeth. It's produced by cells in response to vitamins A and D, but requires K2 to perform its function. This suggests that the effects of vitamin D on bone health could be amplified greatly if it were administered along with K2. By itself, K2 is already highly protective against fractures in the elderly. It works out perfectly, since K2 also protects against vitamin D toxicity.

I'm not going to go through all the other data on K2 in detail, but suffice it to say it's very very important. I believe that K2 is a 'missing link' that explains many of our modern ills, just as Weston Price wrote. Here are a few more tidbits to whet your appetite: K2 may affect glucose control and insulin release (1, 2). It's concentrated in the brain, serving an as yet unknown function.

In my opinion, vitamins A, D and K2 are among the very few micronutrients worth worrying about in your diet. Hunter-gatherers didn't have multivitamins, they had nutrient-dense animal foods. As long as you eat a natural diet containing some vegetables and some animal products, and lay off the processed grains, sugar and vegetable oil, the other vitamins and minerals will take care of themselves. It's interesting to speculate that perhaps the anecdotes about tooth decay resolving on the high-fat "Optimal Diet" are due to a higher intake of K2 from dairy.

Vitamin K2, MK-4 is only found in animal products. The best sources known are grass-fed butter from cows eating rapidly growing grass, and foie gras. K2 tends to associate with beta-carotene in butter, so the darker the color, the more K2 it contains (also, the better it tastes). Fish eggs, other grass-fed dairy, shellfish, insects and other organ meats are also good sources. Chris Masterjohn compiled a list of food sources in his excellent article on the Weston Price foundation website. I highly recommend reading it if you want more detail. K2 MK-7 is found abundantly in natto, a type of fermented soybean, and seems to have some of the same effects as MK-4 on bone health in clinical trials. However, it is not the from of K2 that mammals synthesize for themselves so I'm not convinced it's the real thing.

Finally, you can also buy K2 supplements. The best one is butter oil, the very same stuff Price used to treat his patients. I have used this one personally, and I noticed positive effects on my skin overnight. Thorne research makes a synthetic liquid K2 MK-4 supplement that is easy to dose drop-wise to get natural amounts of it. Other K2 MK-4 supplements are much more concentrated than what you could get from food so I recommend avoiding them. I am generally against supplements, but I've ordered the Thorne product for a little self-experimentation. I want to see if it has the same effect on my skin as the butter oil (update- it does).

0
A048b66e08306d405986b6c04bf5e8e4

on December 24, 2013
at 02:05 AM

I don't think any supplements are "essential", but in today's world, with depleted soil and reverse osmosis water, I would have to say magnesium (both internally and externally, in the form of magnesium citrate and magnesuim oil, respectively) and vitamin D. Maybe fermented cod liver oil too, for the vitamin D and omega-3 fatty acids, which aren't overly widespread in foods, are beneficial to a modern diet.

0
A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on February 25, 2010
at 06:05 PM

Here's some more info about magnesium, that I found in this article from paleodiet.com:

While the modern diet, in the western world, usually contains ample calcium, it may offer inadequate magnesium. Studies of our ancestors' pre-agricultural diets indicate that magnesium was probably consumed at about a 1:1 ratio with calcium (8). Thus, that would be the approximate ratio our bodies evolved with. As the Ca:Mg ratio is 12:1 in dairy, those consuming this much vaunted source of calcium might only experience the equivocal benefit that is reported in the medical literature(9). The Ca:Mg ratio in post-agricultural diets is about 4:1 (10). Because both calcium and magnesium compete for the same absorption mechanisms, the imbalanced intake associated with our modern diet may well lead to magnesium deficiency. One feature of magnesium deficiency is the inhibition of osteoblasts which are cells that build and maintain bones. One of the authors (Ron) increased his bone density significantly by taking magnesium supplements alone.

Fascinating!

0
95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on February 25, 2010
at 01:17 PM

Some fish have a lot of magnesium. Paleo-era drinking water may also have been a source.

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