28

votes

Can food give us all the nutrients we need?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created November 10, 2011 at 4:20 PM

It seems that many people take vitamins because they think the food they're eating lacks the nutrients needed to be healthy. Did Oprah say take supplements and everyone followed!?! I checked the intertubes and it seems that supplement sales are over 20 billion a year. Are people thinking they can use vitamins to "fix" their poor food choices or that they need them to ensure good nutrition? Are all the economic troubles a factor as people can't afford a wide variety of food?

I know many of us here on PH take some supplements, fish oil seems to be a prominent one, but outside of that do you think you eat well enough that you can obtain all the vitamins you need from eating a wide variety of foods?

If you were taking supplements have you slowly phased them out but added other things in? Example: sea vegetables, cranberries, yogurt for Iodine. Dark leafy greens, fruit, broccoli for Calcium. Fish, eggs, mushrooms for Vitamin D.

If you are taking supplements, want to share the what and the why? I'm always curious..

For me, I take ZMA at night and fish oil and have never taken any other supplements. Parents raised me in a way where food rules, pills do not. I definitely eat an extremely varied diet and am eager to see, after my blood tests next week, how my bod is doing.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:31 PM

I get muscle twitches/cramps with pounds of sweet potato per day. I can only conclude that either the soil is depleted where they grow or the magnesium present is far less bioavailable than advertised due to the phytate.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 12, 2011
at 01:09 PM

Wowzers, thank you for taking the time to list and give the reason's and such!

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 12, 2011
at 01:09 PM

WOW! Thank you for taking to the time to list with the reasons why!

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:32 PM

I bought some, but I couldn't get myself to eat it. I do eat home-ferments, tho.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:16 AM

Hey - here in Heidiland you can't buy supplements in the grocery store - you have to go to pharmacy. They are super expensive and there are very few brands to choose from. People do supplement. But I think a lot less than in the US. it's just not as much a part of the mentality. In general, people self-medicate a lot less here, i find.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 11, 2011
at 06:13 AM

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/06/low-micronutrient-intake-may-contribute.html

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 11, 2011
at 05:58 AM

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/04/low-vitamin-d-cause-or-result-of.html http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2010/10/magnesium-and-brain.html http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2010/07/zinc-and-depression.html

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 11, 2011
at 05:48 AM

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/02/magnesium-and-insulin-sensitivity.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/04/magnesium-and-vitamin-d-metabolism.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/02/saturated-fat-and-insulin-sensitivity.html

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:38 AM

Looks like you could use more selenium.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:30 AM

I'm mainly concerned about the 3.4g PUFAs from almonds for 75mg of mag

7255a87872b75e6f691d84dca769b87e

on November 11, 2011
at 02:48 AM

Do fish tend to carry iodine?

7255a87872b75e6f691d84dca769b87e

on November 11, 2011
at 02:46 AM

Salmon and sunshine cover vitamin D, red meat adds easy B vitamins and zinc, and sweet potatoes cover A, C, and potassium.

D8e34821d22266a5f667611e9a4ea549

(30)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:13 AM

Cod liver, beware of vitamin A toxicity or does the fermentation take away the retinol?

13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 11, 2011
at 12:40 AM

It is amazing! And, one of the things I really love about paleo is that it really encourages finding what works for your body instead of forcing a one-size-fits-all approach on everyone.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 11, 2011
at 12:06 AM

What I'm concerned about is the off-chance that the trace minerals will be nuked from a food because you have grams of phytate and micrograms of the mineral.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 11:55 PM

Most definitely a good point RfTM! There was an Iodine thread that Travis posted to that addressed something similar re: the land: http://paleohacks.com/questions/67550/how-is-it-that-we-evolved-to-require-iodine#axzz1dLgJdSJP

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 11:51 PM

ooo the menaquinone! have you ever had natto?

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 11:43 PM

Yeah - it's 2nd to our friends the sea veg in levels. Then I think it's eggs and strawberries? Milk is in there somewhere, too.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 10, 2011
at 11:33 PM

Taro and cassave have .14% phytate that isn't a whole lot. Phytate doesn't even seem to cause nutrient loss problems in the context of small amounts in paleo foods.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:54 PM

Agreed - this is why I suppliment.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:52 PM

Phytate is in all of the tubers in pretty good amounts.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:32 PM

I don't understand yogurt for iodine - I wasn't aware that yogurt had iodine in large amounts. I know kelp does.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:17 PM

Not if you minimize phytate rich foods.. I thought that was one of the goals of paleo?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 10, 2011
at 09:15 PM

Caffeine with cocoa and tubers tend to concentrate minerals in or near the skin. I just ate a big plate of sweet potato right now, but a lot of these people are low carb and won't touch a tuber. Regarding Peat: I'd have to see specifically which nutrients he's talking about. Of course fat solubles might benefit from more fat and iron will increase with vitamin C etc. but you'd lose out on a lot to phytate if you always mixed things.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 10, 2011
at 09:01 PM

ray peat says mixed meals are better digested, says people did experiments and mixed macros best activated digestion

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on November 10, 2011
at 08:54 PM

Tastes like the smell of piss...oh now I understand. It's cool if you like the GS. It's totally paleo.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 10, 2011
at 08:52 PM

1oz almonds has 75mg mag and 3.4g of omega-6...there are a lot better sources of mag like fruit,tubers,and cocoa.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on November 10, 2011
at 08:38 PM

You can get CoQ10 from eating beef heart, and it's yummy.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:33 PM

cool! as always, nice response. i tried with the legumes, stopped zma for a few months, but just wasn't getting the results - so the zma back in. amazing how every body is truly different. so interesting..

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 10, 2011
at 08:30 PM

Yeah, there would have definitely been overlap, but the 100% mixed meals that most people eat is well out of the evolutionary realm. Combining the things you mention with meat wouldn't really matter, it's mostly minerals + phytate that you want to avoid as well as starch + vitamin C.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:30 PM

Is this what you and Kamal have been doing in the man cave GWAR? Creating Golden Shower Supplements?

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 10, 2011
at 08:27 PM

Travis, I sort-of buy the separate meals hypothesis, since if I were outdoors hunting and gathering I'd acquire one thing at a time. BUT, what if I stashed some greens and berries in my fur purse on the way home from hunting? Or, I gathered plant stuff and someone else hunted and we shared? I tend to think we evolved to handle mixed meals but I understand you're seeking the ideal.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:18 PM

thanks bree! i'm from seattle - i hear you re: the lack of sun during the winter months. never affected me but i feel big for those that it does.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:15 PM

thank for the response sl! i've never had pee before so i can't respond to that but *can* recommend magnesium for bringing things down a notch.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on November 10, 2011
at 08:07 PM

HAHA! Oh man! I mean it tastes like the smell of piss (if that makes sense)

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:06 PM

oh so very nice, thank you! you don't live in the states, correct? anything you've seen/heard in the EU re: topics such as this?

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on November 10, 2011
at 07:57 PM

How much piss have you tasted? Does this include golden showers or are we only taling about nutritional supplementation? Please clarify.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on November 10, 2011
at 07:48 PM

my marketing prof at the time(mid-90s) had the best-selling intro to marketing textbook in the country.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:30 PM

Oh hello Stabby. Thank you for your response, very nice. *sharpens knife*

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:24 PM

your marketing professor is wise. thanks for the post! now, you and gwar carry on with your glutiferous bromance.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:14 PM

I will be next week Dragonfly! I had uploaded a post a week or so ago to see if anyone had thoughts re: tests they had run, wish they had run, etc. I'm going as full as possible, in addition to what my Doc wants, if they're taking the blood then might as well.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:13 PM

Oh hello Stabby, thank you for your reply *sharpens knife*

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:11 PM

McGMeghann - did you see @Kewpies reply in this thread? She addresses Magnesium, see if that helps :)

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 10, 2011
at 06:57 PM

On my 2-3 hours daily commute, I've noticed a lot more road kill in the last month or so. Last week I saw a racoon and thought "I hope that's not Stabby!" But I didn't see a dagger anywhere...

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 10, 2011
at 06:41 PM

If you don't find what you need, you can post a separate question!

Ccdf3fbcaec76e025ff94d03cc4daf9a

(536)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:47 PM

I just searched and didnt find anything on this website about my question. I guess I will google it

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:32 PM

Did you get your D tested, jesuisjuba? I'm curious what your levels are without supplementation.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:29 PM

You know, I always feel guilty when I read these kind of questions. But honestly, if I didn't take all those supps I'd be worrying about a new zit every morning. As a student, I just don't have the time to cook quality meals. I pretty much take most of the supps Dr. Kruse recommends (though not the weird ones like melatonin or CoQ10).

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:26 PM

Do a search, please! It's not helpful to clog up this post with separate questions.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:23 PM

LB~ Yes and for my food histamine intolerance. This link explains a lot of it:http://thatpaleoguy.com/2011/04/11/histamine-intolerance/

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on November 10, 2011
at 05:17 PM

I think the question of supplement quality is a big one. I remember Robb Wolf suggesting Costco (or something similar) fish oil back in the day when he was recommending monster doses for folks who were heavy or had metabolic syndrome ... and thinking a big box store is probably a great place to go for oxidized PUFA.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:14 PM

thanks, ghee... you know i'm out there trying to get my glutes firing right.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on November 10, 2011
at 05:08 PM

You got a mighty fine looking ass too, just sayin'. Bromances are TOTALLY paleo

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on November 10, 2011
at 05:05 PM

The supplementation needs of a raccoon are irrelevant to me and Ms Juba. Be gone furry one...

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 04:57 PM

Oh, those were just examples - the list would have been huge so edited myself in a big way. I eat quite a bit of salmon and liver, sometimes mackerel and sardines, so D3 should hopefully be ok. Thanks for the answer, very nicely broken down.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on November 10, 2011
at 04:50 PM

Can you talk more about the vitamin c for anti-histamine effects. is this for allergies?

Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

16 Answers

19
66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

on November 10, 2011
at 04:27 PM

excellent question.

as far as why people take vitamis, i think it's more about people hearing bits of epidemiological studies as they're driving to work, watching the news, reading newspapers or, yes, watching oprah and thinking, "well i don't want to die or get sick from _ so i better start supplementing _ immediately!" i had a marketing professor tell me that fear and love are the two strongest emotions that separate people's money from their wallets.

personally, i occasionally take fish oil if i find myself not having eaten salmon for awhile and i have started taking magnesium again. everything else, i try to balance out with my diet. i eat about 8 oz of liver a week, i go through a gallon on bone broth ever 2 weeks, i eat pastured butter often, grassfed ruminants, and colorful organic vegetables. i haven't punched my vitamins and minerals into a calculator but i feel great and my skin, hair and nails look great so i think i'm doing alright.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:14 PM

thanks, ghee... you know i'm out there trying to get my glutes firing right.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on November 10, 2011
at 05:08 PM

You got a mighty fine looking ass too, just sayin'. Bromances are TOTALLY paleo

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on November 10, 2011
at 07:48 PM

my marketing prof at the time(mid-90s) had the best-selling intro to marketing textbook in the country.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:24 PM

your marketing professor is wise. thanks for the post! now, you and gwar carry on with your glutiferous bromance.

15
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 10, 2011
at 04:50 PM

There are times when supplementation can be a good thing, like magnesium with me. No matter how much I try to get in the diet, supplementing always seems to help me out. And although there are food sources of vitamin d, oftentimes they aren't enough to raise the levels, super vitamin d mushrooms seem to be about as much of a supplement as supplements, they don't just have them lying around the supermarket.

But in general we should be eating so that we don't need to supplement to get enough nutrients. One good reason is that oftentimes essential nutrients are in the same place that non-essential nutrients are, and if you aren't getting enough of the former then you aren't getting enough of the latter. And supplements aren't always as effective.

And yes, people do actually take supplements as a license to eat bad diets. They actually seem to believe that a multivitamin "covers" a box of donuts.

I'm a big fan of supplementing things that you can't get in sufficient amounts through food. I take astaxanthin and pantethine and think that there are other good supplements that are of value. But many of the ones found in the drugstore probably aren't unless someone is really deficient.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:30 PM

Oh hello Stabby. Thank you for your response, very nice. *sharpens knife*

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on November 10, 2011
at 05:17 PM

I think the question of supplement quality is a big one. I remember Robb Wolf suggesting Costco (or something similar) fish oil back in the day when he was recommending monster doses for folks who were heavy or had metabolic syndrome ... and thinking a big box store is probably a great place to go for oxidized PUFA.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on November 10, 2011
at 05:05 PM

The supplementation needs of a raccoon are irrelevant to me and Ms Juba. Be gone furry one...

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:13 PM

Oh hello Stabby, thank you for your reply *sharpens knife*

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 10, 2011
at 06:57 PM

On my 2-3 hours daily commute, I've noticed a lot more road kill in the last month or so. Last week I saw a racoon and thought "I hope that's not Stabby!" But I didn't see a dagger anywhere...

6
2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on November 10, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Great question! At the moment I take no supplements at all. Not because I'm a supplement snob but because ordering them is another one of the MANY things I'll get round to "tomorrow". If and when I get round to ordering them I shall take vitamin D for sure. I was sent a link by a lady on twitter called "VitDSue" she recommended this brand http://www.bioticsresearch.com/node/1570 which is in drop form so no questionable oils, and is good for those with malabsorbtion problems.

I would also like to try magnesium to see if it calmed me down a little and to see whether it would be able to focuss my ever chattering mind and wandering thoughts.

Like luckybastard I eat lots of ruminant animal meat, lots of different colours of veg, lots of pastured butter, some wild caught salmon, eggs, and I eat sushi nori for the iodine (and the crunch ;D). bone broth is on the menu as is liver and heart. (I draw the line at kidneys because I think they smell and taste like piss) so I should be doing alright, if I'm not, I'm not sure I can be arsed to fiddle around too much. If I feel and look ok, that's good enough for me, for now.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on November 10, 2011
at 07:57 PM

How much piss have you tasted? Does this include golden showers or are we only taling about nutritional supplementation? Please clarify.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:30 PM

Is this what you and Kamal have been doing in the man cave GWAR? Creating Golden Shower Supplements?

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on November 10, 2011
at 08:54 PM

Tastes like the smell of piss...oh now I understand. It's cool if you like the GS. It's totally paleo.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on November 10, 2011
at 08:07 PM

HAHA! Oh man! I mean it tastes like the smell of piss (if that makes sense)

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:15 PM

thank for the response sl! i've never had pee before so i can't respond to that but *can* recommend magnesium for bringing things down a notch.

6
Medium avatar

(12379)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:46 PM

I take magnesium when I feel that my sleep quality is going down the tubes. And it really helps.

I take fish oil when we've been eating a lot of chicken and pork (sometimes we go through a kick of white meat).

I take Vitamin D in the late fall and winter - I live on the West Coast of Canada - we don't get sun in the fall and winter - so i have to take something to remain happy or else I turn evil, depressed and prone to getting sick all the time.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:18 PM

thanks bree! i'm from seattle - i hear you re: the lack of sun during the winter months. never affected me but i feel big for those that it does.

5
6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on November 10, 2011
at 05:33 PM

I've read that the soil used in farming is not the same that it was 50 to 60 years ago because of over farming and lack of crop rotation. Since the soil is poorer so are the nutrients in our food that is grown in this soil and maybe this is one of the reasons why we need to take certain supplements to make up that difference.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 11:55 PM

Most definitely a good point RfTM! There was an Iodine thread that Travis posted to that addressed something similar re: the land: http://paleohacks.com/questions/67550/how-is-it-that-we-evolved-to-require-iodine#axzz1dLgJdSJP

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:54 PM

Agreed - this is why I suppliment.

4
Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:26 PM

I think Luckybastard's professor hit the nail on the head with "I had a marketing professor tell me that fear and love are the two strongest emotions that separate people's money from their wallets."

We're all scared of getting cancer and dying a painful death. Somebody does a study, usually involving rodents, showing some benefit or other of an isolated micronutrient, and then it's touted in the press as something we need to take to maintain basic health at the least, or to stave off some sort of horrible disease at worst. And the research establishment/media plays on that fear.

People supplement in dosages that are far greater, and taken in isolation or with inappropriate combinations, than what they would ever encounter in nature. Look at calcium and vitamin e, both of which were pushed heavily by the medical establishment and both of which have since been proven to have detrimental effects when taken in large doses in supplements. Some things, like C, you just pee out if you have too much. Some minerals, like selenium, stick around in the body and can actually be quite toxic in high doses. Vitamin D, by the way, is made by the body and stored. You draw upon the D that you got in the summertime for a long time afterwards. Probably the only time you'd really need to supplement is if you don't get sun exposure for long periods of time or if you put sunscreen on every time you go outside.

For my part, I have always avoided supplementation as a matter of principle, and tried to eat a highly varied omnivorous diet. I am definitely no expert, but I have an intuitive feeling that our bodies have evolved over a VERY long time to use food as a source of nutrients and fuel, and that tweaking the balance by ingesting random levels (decided by who?) of supplements on a daily basis is playing with fire. That said, I occasionally (3x a week) take a lowish dose of magnesium, because I've had some trouble sleeping lately. (but that's probably hormonal.) Unless I read VERY good evidence to the contrary, I won't likely change anything...

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:06 PM

oh so very nice, thank you! you don't live in the states, correct? anything you've seen/heard in the EU re: topics such as this?

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:16 AM

Hey - here in Heidiland you can't buy supplements in the grocery store - you have to go to pharmacy. They are super expensive and there are very few brands to choose from. People do supplement. But I think a lot less than in the US. it's just not as much a part of the mentality. In general, people self-medicate a lot less here, i find.

4
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 10, 2011
at 04:39 PM

I take supplements when I can't get sufficient nutrients from food sources. This is after 30+ years of research and self-experimentation (on-going!) I don't watch TV or listen to the radio, so my choices have been influenced more by books and internet forums like Paleohacks.

I take Magnesium, D3, and C daily.

There's not enough Magnesium in our local water supply.

I am dark-complected and older & don't enough D from sun exposure. There's not enough in the fatty fish I eat to keep me in the optimal blood level range to keep my asthma at bay.

I seem to be histamine-intolerant, so I take C for its antihistamine effects.

I'm taking Zinc right now to remedy a long-time deficiency, but will reduce & possibly eliminate this when my body is sufficient.

I am curious to know your D level since you are getting D2 from mushrooms not D3.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on November 10, 2011
at 04:50 PM

Can you talk more about the vitamin c for anti-histamine effects. is this for allergies?

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:14 PM

I will be next week Dragonfly! I had uploaded a post a week or so ago to see if anyone had thoughts re: tests they had run, wish they had run, etc. I'm going as full as possible, in addition to what my Doc wants, if they're taking the blood then might as well.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 04:57 PM

Oh, those were just examples - the list would have been huge so edited myself in a big way. I eat quite a bit of salmon and liver, sometimes mackerel and sardines, so D3 should hopefully be ok. Thanks for the answer, very nicely broken down.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:23 PM

LB~ Yes and for my food histamine intolerance. This link explains a lot of it:http://thatpaleoguy.com/2011/04/11/histamine-intolerance/

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:32 PM

Did you get your D tested, jesuisjuba? I'm curious what your levels are without supplementation.

3
D8e34821d22266a5f667611e9a4ea549

on November 11, 2011
at 01:06 AM

If you are poor like many of us in this economy you can hardly get all the nutrients you need from the diet alone. Fish twice a week, 5-7 servings of fruit and vegetables per day? Also so some vitamins like vitamin D are just low naturally in the diet. Women because of their physiology (loss of blood every month) are almost always anemic and need iron supplements to met their nutritional requirements. The other issue is bioavailability, nutrients from the diet may not be bioavailable enough to meet the body needs. While food is best way to get all our nutrients, sometimes supplements met the gap where diet sometime fails or is handicapped.

However, supplements get a bad rap because alot of people consumed them without adequate knowledge. Nutrients are like medicines, dose dose dose is important.

3
Medium avatar

on November 10, 2011
at 07:58 PM

Yeah, you can do it without too much trouble.

Just eating a lot of meat and liver takes you most of the way there.

If you don't eat dairy, best source of calcium is sardines (somewhat good source of D3, iodide, and selenium as well).

Eating a lot of pastured yolks covers E, cholesterol, more D3, K2, selenium, EFAs etc.

Almonds are probably the best route for magnesium (even with the high phytate) and nickel, and the raw ones have a lot of E as well.

Raspberries are good to ensure that you're getting enough manganese and vitamin C.

One of the most important things though is that you stop eating mixed meals and instead eat all flesh for one meal, all phytate-rich starch in another, all fruit in a different one, etc. Digestion is better and vitamin/mineral absorption is maximized.

You'd probably still be lower than the optimal level for D3 during the winter, but you'd be miles ahead of most people.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:17 PM

Not if you minimize phytate rich foods.. I thought that was one of the goals of paleo?

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:30 AM

I'm mainly concerned about the 3.4g PUFAs from almonds for 75mg of mag

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 10, 2011
at 09:15 PM

Caffeine with cocoa and tubers tend to concentrate minerals in or near the skin. I just ate a big plate of sweet potato right now, but a lot of these people are low carb and won't touch a tuber. Regarding Peat: I'd have to see specifically which nutrients he's talking about. Of course fat solubles might benefit from more fat and iron will increase with vitamin C etc. but you'd lose out on a lot to phytate if you always mixed things.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 10, 2011
at 09:01 PM

ray peat says mixed meals are better digested, says people did experiments and mixed macros best activated digestion

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:52 PM

Phytate is in all of the tubers in pretty good amounts.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 10, 2011
at 08:30 PM

Yeah, there would have definitely been overlap, but the 100% mixed meals that most people eat is well out of the evolutionary realm. Combining the things you mention with meat wouldn't really matter, it's mostly minerals + phytate that you want to avoid as well as starch + vitamin C.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 10, 2011
at 08:52 PM

1oz almonds has 75mg mag and 3.4g of omega-6...there are a lot better sources of mag like fruit,tubers,and cocoa.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 10, 2011
at 08:27 PM

Travis, I sort-of buy the separate meals hypothesis, since if I were outdoors hunting and gathering I'd acquire one thing at a time. BUT, what if I stashed some greens and berries in my fur purse on the way home from hunting? Or, I gathered plant stuff and someone else hunted and we shared? I tend to think we evolved to handle mixed meals but I understand you're seeking the ideal.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 10, 2011
at 11:33 PM

Taro and cassave have .14% phytate that isn't a whole lot. Phytate doesn't even seem to cause nutrient loss problems in the context of small amounts in paleo foods.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 11, 2011
at 12:06 AM

What I'm concerned about is the off-chance that the trace minerals will be nuked from a food because you have grams of phytate and micrograms of the mineral.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:31 PM

I get muscle twitches/cramps with pounds of sweet potato per day. I can only conclude that either the soil is depleted where they grow or the magnesium present is far less bioavailable than advertised due to the phytate.

3
Ccdf3fbcaec76e025ff94d03cc4daf9a

on November 10, 2011
at 05:16 PM

Can I piggyback on this question?
I see magnesium everywhere, not just on this post but all over PH. Can someone elaborate on the benefits of magnesium on the paleo diet? Forgive me, but I didnt do a search before I asked.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:26 PM

Do a search, please! It's not helpful to clog up this post with separate questions.

Ccdf3fbcaec76e025ff94d03cc4daf9a

(536)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:47 PM

I just searched and didnt find anything on this website about my question. I guess I will google it

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 11, 2011
at 06:13 AM

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/06/low-micronutrient-intake-may-contribute.html

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 10, 2011
at 06:41 PM

If you don't find what you need, you can post a separate question!

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 07:11 PM

McGMeghann - did you see @Kewpies reply in this thread? She addresses Magnesium, see if that helps :)

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 11, 2011
at 05:58 AM

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/04/low-vitamin-d-cause-or-result-of.html http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2010/10/magnesium-and-brain.html http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2010/07/zinc-and-depression.html

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 11, 2011
at 05:48 AM

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/02/magnesium-and-insulin-sensitivity.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/04/magnesium-and-vitamin-d-metabolism.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/02/saturated-fat-and-insulin-sensitivity.html

2
8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

on November 12, 2011
at 03:54 AM

Here are some that I use and recommend. I have no financial ties to them. I buy them from Amazon, Vitamin Shoppe, Lucky Vitamin, and Vitacost- depending on what's on sale. I'm sure there are others but this my research.

The kicker is that some of these same companies when you change to another dose say a greater IU of Vitamin D or Kelp they add soybean oil, soy lecithin, or olive oil so read the labels carefully!

Also the Rainbow Light Organic Men's formula has a trivial amount of iodine 55 mcg/4 capsules whereas the Womens' has 75 mcg/4 capsules and Prenatal has 150 mcg/4 capsules.

Jaminets recommend a multivitamin

1) Rainbow Light Certified Organic Womens, Mens, and Prenatal formulas/4 capsules daily

Free Of: Artificial colors, flavors, sweeteners, preservatives, sugar, lactose, gluten, yeast, milk, eggs, soy, nuts, fish/shellfish and wheat.

I don't eat enough sardines or bone broth so I take calcium in combo with minerals.

2) Citracal Plus 2 tablets/day includes Calcium Citrate, Vitamin D3, zinc, magnesium, copper, etc.

I don't eat enough organ meats and liver so:

3) NOW Zinc Picolinate 50 mg/tablet

Free of: sugar, salt, yeast, wheat, gluten, corn, soy, milk, egg or preservatives.

Some traditional cultures had goiter/iodine issues:

4) NOW 150 mcg Kelp (Iodine)/tablet

Contains no: sugar, salt, starch, yeast, wheat, gluten, corn, soy, milk, egg, shellfish or preservatives.

I don't eat enough oily fish as I should:

5) Carlson Cod Liver Oil/Fish Oil (both Lemon and Regular Flavor) liquids and capsules

EXCEPT Very Finest Fish Oil SOFTGELS or Fish Oil Multi

No gluten, corn, milk, soy, yeast, sugar, salt, preservatives

My Vitamin D3 levels were borderline deficient even on Paleo in the summer! and all the above.

6) Nature's Bounty D3 400 IU/tablet

NO artificial color, flavor, sweetener, preservatives, sugar, milk, lactose, soy, gluten, wheat, yeast, fish, sodium

There is not enough magnesium or other minerals in modern soils and foods.Applies to Zinc.

7) KAL Magnesium Orotate 200 mg/2 tablets daily

Does Not Contain: Yeast, wheat, corn, milk, egg, soy, glutens, animal derivatives, sugar, artificial colors, starch or preservatives.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 12, 2011
at 01:09 PM

WOW! Thank you for taking to the time to list with the reasons why!

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 12, 2011
at 01:09 PM

Wowzers, thank you for taking the time to list and give the reason's and such!

2
13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:35 PM

I try to get all my nutrients from food, but I do supplement with fermented cod liver oil since I don't live near the coast so my access to fresh wild caught seafood is limited (especially if I don't want to pay $20 a pound). Other than that I stay away from supplements.

I suspect the reason so many paleo folks supplement magnesium is that while there are some good vegetable sources of magnesium, some of the most common ways to get it in a standard diet are from legumes, nuts, and whole grains. Since most of these are avoided (or in the case of nuts usually eaten sparingly) by paleo folk, it doesn't surprise me people need supplementation. After doing strict paleo for a month or so I felt like total crap (insomnia, irregularity, etc. which had not been a problem on my pre-paleo WAPF-style diet). Magnesium supplementation was recommended by a lot of people. When I looked at dietary sources I discovered switching to a paleo diet had removed a lot of them. So, I added traditionally prepared legumes back into my diet and all of the new problems that had developed disappeared.

Edited to clarify: It is absolutely possible to get enough magnesium on a paleo diet if you seek out and eat lots of the veggies that have a lot. However, I found adding legumes back into my diet was simpler and more effective for me. I'm not saying everyone needs to do this. YMMV.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 08:33 PM

cool! as always, nice response. i tried with the legumes, stopped zma for a few months, but just wasn't getting the results - so the zma back in. amazing how every body is truly different. so interesting..

13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 11, 2011
at 12:40 AM

It is amazing! And, one of the things I really love about paleo is that it really encourages finding what works for your body instead of forcing a one-size-fits-all approach on everyone.

D8e34821d22266a5f667611e9a4ea549

(30)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:13 AM

Cod liver, beware of vitamin A toxicity or does the fermentation take away the retinol?

2
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 10, 2011
at 04:56 PM

I have increased my supplementation, but moved away from the CW recommendations. I never worry about calcium, but I make sure to take more magnesium and fish oil than before. I have also recently started taking D3, and might move on to K2 as well. I no longer value or trust the RDA suggestions, and prefer to go with individual nutrients for short periods of time.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on November 10, 2011
at 11:51 PM

ooo the menaquinone! have you ever had natto?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:32 PM

I bought some, but I couldn't get myself to eat it. I do eat home-ferments, tho.

1
D45e43b08cd99a04f5d4294a871e1078

(1010)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:12 PM

My answer is how the hell is your body supposed to know how to digest supplements? Our brain says we can digest them, but our stomachs still have no idea.

1
7255a87872b75e6f691d84dca769b87e

on November 11, 2011
at 02:39 AM

I don't take supplements, and this is why:

7255a87872b75e6f691d84dca769b87e

on November 11, 2011
at 02:46 AM

Salmon and sunshine cover vitamin D, red meat adds easy B vitamins and zinc, and sweet potatoes cover A, C, and potassium.

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:38 AM

Looks like you could use more selenium.

1
E167c0387a5f0b87bb1f2c3e6aec73a8

(1240)

on November 10, 2011
at 06:18 PM

my CRON-O-Meter numbers are off-the-chart so No supplementation at all. ( ok, vit c looks bad, but i don't care!)

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!