3

votes

A-D-K-E vitamin dosage

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 24, 2010 at 6:15 PM

It seems there is a lot of confusion and uncertainty about dosage of the fat-soluble, "Paleo" vitamins A-D-K-E. Everything I've read concentrates on toxicity and taking as much as possible to be safe.

Vit-D seems the most studied and 2000IU/50lbs/day seems well established. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of study into how much vit-K is safe, or how little is optimal. I think vit-A & E are not recommended for any supplementation in most healthy westerners.

Given all that uncertainty, I'm inclined to think the answer for Paleo vitamin dosage is to match the ratio found in the milk of green grass fed cows. Using 2000IU/50lbs/day of Vitamin D as a starting point, does anyone know what the A-D-K-E ratio of pasture butter is in order to extrapolate to K, E, and A dosage?

C8debab64e0631590cb54b7db86f08e5

(296)

on February 26, 2010
at 02:21 AM

If that's the case, it is coincidence and has no significance.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on February 26, 2010
at 12:41 AM

Modern western human milk is deficient in vitamin D, on average. This is probably because the lactating mothers are also vitamin D deficient, on average. Most breastfed babies in the US are fortified with OTC vitamin D supplements for this reason.

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 25, 2010
at 06:24 PM

Thanks. Interesting that your suggested A:D ratio is pretty close to that of naturally fermented cod liver oil.

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 25, 2010
at 03:10 AM

Also, infants aren't ready to synthesize D from sunlight, they get it from milk. And as their sole source of food we can assume it has the optimal and complete amount of D they need. At least as a first approximation, I think I'd use that as a ratio for adults.

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 25, 2010
at 03:02 AM

"Well children under the age of two (2) should take 1,000 IU per day, over the age of two, 2,000 IU per day. Well adults and adolescents should take 5,000 IU per day. Around 2–3 months later have your doctor order your first 25-hydroxy-vitamin D blood test. Then adjust your dose so your 25(OH)D level is between 50 and 80 ng/ml (125 and 200 nmol/L), summer and winter."

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 25, 2010
at 03:01 AM

Hmmm, I thought I'd seen it few places, but now it seems I can't find any direct references. I did find the following at http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2008-july.shtml, which assuming average sized kids and adults yields apprx. 2000IU/50lbs/day. (no room, quote in next comment)

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 24, 2010
at 09:12 PM

Good point about over-reliance on butter. Perhaps average a number of wholesome foods? Good point about using D in food as a starting point, though 1) 2000IU is the closest to a "constant" I've come across 2) milk is a fundamental and complete "whole" food.

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4 Answers

4
15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on February 25, 2010
at 05:45 PM

I have done a lot of research on this and think, on average, good targets are:

D 2500IU/day at first and get levels checked after 3 months. Target 45-50ng/ml.

A 5000IU/day from all sources, including carotenes. It's very hard to know how much carotene will be converted to retinol in your body, so I try to get about 2000IU at least from retinol (dairy fat and fish liver oil). I suspect (not proven yet) that carotene conversion is modulated by both vitamin D and vitamin K status. Thus, being replete in all three might mean you will convert carotenes efficiently (meaning, on an as-needed basis). Likewise, K1 conversion to mk-4 K2 may be modulated by D and A status. Just take moderate doses of all three and you'll be good. :)

K Eat a lot of greens, eggs (or maybe liver if you like it), butter, and cheese. To get an extra boost, a low-dose K2 supplement might be good. I use 90 micrograms of mk-7 K2 once every three days.

E About 30IU from all sources, unless you eat a high PUFA diet - then, more. But, don't eat a high PUFA diet.

C8debab64e0631590cb54b7db86f08e5

(296)

on February 26, 2010
at 02:21 AM

If that's the case, it is coincidence and has no significance.

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 25, 2010
at 06:24 PM

Thanks. Interesting that your suggested A:D ratio is pretty close to that of naturally fermented cod liver oil.

4
7bea72ef073e8f76b5828727f1460900

(2718)

on February 24, 2010
at 07:46 PM

Humans did not get a "perfect blend" of vitamins A, D, E, and K solely from butter, so butter is probably not a useful starting point for this type of analysis.

Most of the vitamin D that prehistoric humans got were from the sun, so attempting to start with a food item to do a ratio analysis will give you hugely inflated quantities of vitamins A, E, and K.

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 24, 2010
at 09:12 PM

Good point about over-reliance on butter. Perhaps average a number of wholesome foods? Good point about using D in food as a starting point, though 1) 2000IU is the closest to a "constant" I've come across 2) milk is a fundamental and complete "whole" food.

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 25, 2010
at 03:10 AM

Also, infants aren't ready to synthesize D from sunlight, they get it from milk. And as their sole source of food we can assume it has the optimal and complete amount of D they need. At least as a first approximation, I think I'd use that as a ratio for adults.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on February 26, 2010
at 12:41 AM

Modern western human milk is deficient in vitamin D, on average. This is probably because the lactating mothers are also vitamin D deficient, on average. Most breastfed babies in the US are fortified with OTC vitamin D supplements for this reason.

1
5f0158c23fcb5636e57b4ce097784da0

(1386)

on November 13, 2010
at 10:31 AM

there are two positions wrt A: one says retinol is incredibly toxic, even in sub 5kIU levels, and only carotenes should be taken (cannell et al from the vitamindcouncil, see http://is.gd/gZOHx), and the other position (weston price) who say, supplemental retinol is harmless as long as you're not deficient in D, and that humans have always eaten large amounts of retinol coming from liver. having not studied the topic myself yet, my position is to be cautious, and not to take more than 1000IU as retinol a day, and the rest in carotenes.

1
Dc6407193ba441d1438f6f0c06af872b

on February 24, 2010
at 11:01 PM

I'd love to see a reverence for 2000IU/50lb/day. I've seen recommendations all over the map, yours being a bit on the high end. Even the blood level references are all over the map.

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 25, 2010
at 03:01 AM

Hmmm, I thought I'd seen it few places, but now it seems I can't find any direct references. I did find the following at http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2008-july.shtml, which assuming average sized kids and adults yields apprx. 2000IU/50lbs/day. (no room, quote in next comment)

5740abb0fa033403978dd988b0609dfd

(2633)

on February 25, 2010
at 03:02 AM

"Well children under the age of two (2) should take 1,000 IU per day, over the age of two, 2,000 IU per day. Well adults and adolescents should take 5,000 IU per day. Around 2–3 months later have your doctor order your first 25-hydroxy-vitamin D blood test. Then adjust your dose so your 25(OH)D level is between 50 and 80 ng/ml (125 and 200 nmol/L), summer and winter."

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